IRC log of au on 2013-02-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:45:29 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
19:45:29 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-au-irc
19:45:35 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
19:45:35 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
19:45:41 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI AU
19:45:49 [Jan]
Chair: Jutta Treviranus
19:46:03 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2013JanMar/0039.html
19:46:28 [Jan]
Regrets: Sueanne N., Tim B., Greg P.
20:00:49 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
20:00:56 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
20:02:53 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
20:03:16 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #au
20:03:22 [jeanne]
zakim, who is here?
20:03:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], Jeanne
20:03:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jeanne, RRSAgent, Zakim, Jan, trackbot
20:03:31 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:04:00 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
20:04:00 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
20:04:39 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
20:05:04 [Jan]
zakim, [Microsoft] is really Cherie
20:05:04 [Zakim]
+Cherie; got it
20:05:15 [Jan]
zakim, [Microsoft.a] is really Alex
20:05:15 [Zakim]
+Alex; got it
20:09:53 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2013JanMar/att-0036/ATAG2-10April2012PublicWD-Tests-rev20130212.html
20:11:23 [Jan]
Topic: A.4.1.1 Content Changes Reversible (Minimum)
20:15:13 [Jan]
For web-based tools, the user agent's undo function(s) may be utilized.
20:15:37 [Jan]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35520/20130107-4/results#xq3
20:15:47 [jeanne]
AL: add text to clarify that the web based authoring tool can use the user agent undo function
20:15:57 [Jan]
Topic: A.4.1.2 Settings Change Confirmation
20:18:44 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:19:13 [jeanne]
JR: this has changed substantially from the initial survey.
20:19:37 [Jan]
Examine the authoring tool (including in the documentation) for mechanisms to change any preference settings within that authoring tool user interface. If there are none, then select SKIP.
20:19:38 [jeanne]
AL: include documentation for mechanisms
20:19:55 [jeanne]
regrets+ Sueann, Greg, Tim
20:20:22 [jeanne]
... if not, select Skip
20:20:51 [jeanne]
AL: Are we asking people to do exhaustive testing? Or generally for things to work?
20:21:26 [jeanne]
... for example, if they have many settings, and one passes, do we assume all pass?
20:25:47 [jeanne]
JR: What if we had an e.g. for a settings tab?
20:26:22 [jeanne]
JT: It would be bad design for User experience to have hundreds of mechanisms or preference settings on a tab.
20:27:03 [jeanne]
AL: there could be 3 layers of settings, if it is web based. If it is inclusive, it is a lot of settings.
20:27:25 [jeanne]
JR: I think 2 levels, where there is a settings session and perhaps a zoom control on the toolbar.
20:27:45 [jeanne]
... I wouldn't want to put a settings control with 20 items to loop 20 times.
20:28:22 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
20:28:46 [jeanne]
JS: SHouldn't we be leaving this to the discretion of the tester? We are telling them to test them, and let them decide what is the best way to test it.
20:29:45 [jeanne]
JT: it also depends on the definition of a mechanism and how much to include? Whether you need a representative set, and assume that what works in one setting will work with others.
20:30:15 [jeanne]
AL: Look at samples vs. exhaustive. DIfference in different environments.
20:31:23 [Tim]
Tim has joined #au
20:31:42 [Jan]
Topic: A.4.1.3 Content Changes Reversible (Enhanced):
20:31:46 [jeanne]
JR: I will add an example of a user settings dialog
20:32:22 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2013JanMar/att-0036/ATAG2-10April2012PublicWD-Tests-rev20130212.html
20:33:18 [jeanne]
AL: accept A. 4.1.3
20:33:24 [Jan]
Topic: A.4.2.1 Describe Accessibility Features:
20:33:30 [jeanne]
Topic: A.4.2.1
20:33:50 [jeanne]
JR: 7 accepts and a typo to fix
20:41:17 [jeanne]
AL: This would be a tremendous amount of work
20:41:29 [jeanne]
JS: Wouldn't this already documented for MS products?
20:42:00 [jeanne]
AL: Yes, but not from an ATAG perspective. It would be very difficult to guarentee 100%.
20:42:57 [jeanne]
JR: In the beginning, yes, but in the future, it would be part of standard bug checking.
20:43:02 [Zakim]
+ +1.561.582.aaaa
20:43:26 [Jan]
zakkim, aaaa is really Sueann
20:43:33 [Jan]
zakim, aaaa is really Sueann
20:43:33 [Zakim]
+Sueann; got it
20:44:49 [jeanne]
AL: If you have 100's of features and you have to check every one.
20:45:10 [Jan]
JR: I agree that we need to have a statement about sampling methodology at the top
20:45:25 [jeanne]
JR: It's the same with WCAG testing, you have 100,000's of pages and you need to have some kind of sampling.
20:45:51 [jeanne]
TB: The Evaluation Task Force has issues with Sampling and they are discussing them.
20:46:08 [jeanne]
JR: Please go back to them and ask them to look at representative sampling.
20:46:33 [jeanne]
JT: There are many strategies for representative sampling, please ask them to look at it.
20:46:50 [jeanne]
TB: There are ways the statistical sampling can be written into the requirements.
20:47:07 [jeanne]
JR: If anyone has links to sampling apps, please send it to the list.
20:47:47 [jeanne]
JT: Once you have the parameters set out, then you can apply the methods used in any sampling of a data set.
20:48:08 [jeanne]
JR: The apps usually have a structure of things always used, down to things used less and less.
20:48:18 [jeanne]
JT: That would be the parameter for the sampling.
20:48:38 [jeanne]
JR: I would use that as information to put in a introduction to sampling.
20:49:02 [jeanne]
TB: One of the NIST statisticians has done work in this area for a project similar to WCAG.
20:49:18 [jeanne]
JT: In the area of software quality assurance, there is a lot of work that has been done.
20:49:23 [Jan]
Topic: A.4.2.2 Document All Features
20:49:57 [jeanne]
AL: accepts
20:50:05 [Jan]
Topic: B.1.1.1 Content Auto-Generation After Authoring Sessions (WCAG)
20:50:24 [Jan]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35520/20130107-4/results#xq8
20:50:32 [jeanne]
JR: All accepted in the survey
20:53:26 [jeanne]
AL: Wording seems "squishy" uses "try"
20:53:47 [jeanne]
JR: Instead of adding content where the author may have introduced error.
20:53:56 [jeanne]
AL: then shouldn't it be static test.
20:54:20 [Sueann]
Sueann has joined #au
20:54:26 [jeanne]
JR: We have talked about this before, it could be an empty string, or it could be a pdf.
20:54:33 [jeanne]
AL: I'm ok with it.
20:55:17 [Jan]
Topic: Re-chartering AUWG
20:55:23 [Jan]
Scribe: Jan
20:55:25 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2010/auwg_charter.html
20:55:34 [Jan]
JS: Our WG has a charter
20:55:41 [Jan]
Last chartered 2010
20:55:46 [Jan]
Expires June 30
20:55:57 [Jan]
We need to have a new first draft by Mar 15
20:56:20 [Jan]
The most important thing we need to do as a group is to set the miletsones
20:56:36 [Jan]
As you can see last time the milestones were way off
20:56:43 [Jan]
We had expected a LC in 2010
20:57:05 [Jan]
I would like everyone to please look at what it will take
20:57:25 [Jan]
Once we finiosh these tests and exit criteria we are then into CR
20:58:06 [Jan]
To get into PR we will need 2 products that demonstrate the overall feasibility...we are talking about multiple products in 6 different categories
20:58:29 [Jan]
And write a report...
20:58:35 [Jan]
How long will it take us?
20:58:48 [Jan]
JT: Are you thinking we should come up with those today?
20:59:24 [Jan]
JS: No but I'd like any of the major vendors considering submitting products to consider how long
20:59:32 [Jan]
JT: Should we do this with a survey?
20:59:42 [Jan]
JS: OK
20:59:43 [Jan]
JR: +1
20:59:50 [jeanne]
Action: Jeanne to create a survey to ask the group the milestones for CR?
20:59:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-384 - Create a survey to ask the group the milestones for CR? [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-03-04].
20:59:58 [Jan]
TB: Do we need different types of prooducts?
21:00:21 [Jan]
JS: Maybe we can discuss next week...
21:00:28 [Jan]
JS: We need to have overall examples
21:01:06 [Jan]
JS: WCAG just had to find 2 different sites for each level
21:01:18 [Jan]
JS: More complicated for authoring tools....
21:01:31 [Jan]
JS: So perhaps...example of a blog, example of a translation toll, etc.
21:01:38 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
21:02:25 [Jan]
JS: Can this be articulated in a survey?
21:02:40 [Jan]
s/JS/JT
21:02:52 [Jan]
JT: OK, we have reached top of the hour
21:03:11 [Zakim]
-Alex
21:03:17 [Zakim]
-Sueann
21:03:22 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
21:03:26 [Zakim]
-Cherie
21:04:29 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
21:04:32 [Zakim]
-Jan
21:04:33 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
21:04:33 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jeanne, Jan, Cherie, Alex, [IPcaller], Tim_Boland, +1.561.582.aaaa, Sueann
21:09:03 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:09:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-au-minutes.html Jan
21:09:11 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
21:09:18 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
21:09:18 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
21:09:24 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
21:09:24 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-au-actions.rdf :
21:09:24 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeanne to create a survey to ask the group the milestones for CR? [1]
21:09:24 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-au-irc#T20-59-50