14:56:40 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:56:40 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-tt-irc 14:56:42 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:56:42 Zakim has joined #tt 14:56:44 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:56:44 ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 14:56:45 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:56:45 Date: 21 February 2013 14:57:21 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started 14:57:28 +[Microsoft] 14:57:36 + +44.118.900.aaaa 14:57:39 mmartin3 has joined #tt 14:57:51 trackbot, start meeting #tt 14:57:51 Sorry, mmartin3, I don't understand 'trackbot, start meeting #tt'. Please refer to for help. 14:58:01 i already started 14:58:07 Andreas has joined #tt 14:58:09 invite trackbot #tt 14:58:16 trackbot, start meeting 14:58:18 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:58:19 zakim, aaaa is me 14:58:19 +Sean; got it 14:58:20 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:58:21 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:58:21 Date: 21 February 2013 14:58:21 ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 14:58:26 Chair: 14:58:27 Sean Hayes 14:58:33 scribenick: 14:58:39 mmartin3 14:58:49 trackbot, status 14:58:50 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:58:50 I notice SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has restarted 14:58:51 On the phone I see [Microsoft], Sean 14:59:10 zakim, Microsoft is mmartn3 14:59:10 +mmartn3; got it 14:59:13 monica, before you start meeting, check to see if it is already started 14:59:14 + +49.893.aabb 14:59:20 since i had started already 14:59:28 ok, thanks glenn 14:59:41 zakim, Microsoft is mmartin3 14:59:41 sorry, mmartin3, I do not recognize a party named 'Microsoft' 14:59:42 if you see zakim and rrsagent already online, then it has already been started 15:00:05 zakim, mmartn3 is mmartin3 15:00:05 +mmartin3; got it 15:00:17 zakim, list attendees 15:00:17 As of this point the attendees have been +44.118.900.aaaa, Sean, +49.893.aabb, mmartin3 15:00:36 mike has joined #tt 15:00:44 + +1.858.847.aacc 15:01:01 +glenn 15:01:33 zakim, aacc is mike 15:01:33 +mike; got it 15:01:46 zakim, aaaa is Sean 15:01:46 sorry, glenn, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 15:01:56 zakim, who's on the phone? 15:01:56 On the phone I see mmartin3, Sean, +49.893.aabb, mike, glenn 15:02:09 zakim, aabb is Andreas 15:02:09 +Andreas; got it 15:02:25 +Thomas_Bause_Mason 15:02:55 tbause has joined #tt 15:04:21 + +1.408.515.aadd 15:05:26 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:05:26 On the phone I see mmartin3, Sean, Andreas, mike, glenn, Thomas_Bause_Mason, +1.408.515.aadd 15:05:30 https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=34314 15:05:33 zakim, list attendees 15:05:33 As of this point the attendees have been +44.118.900.aaaa, Sean, +49.893.aabb, mmartin3, +1.858.847.aacc, glenn, mike, Andreas, Thomas_Bause_Mason, +1.408.515.aadd 15:05:51 sean: Get SE done. 15:05:53 the above link i added is the TTWG member database page 15:06:01 mike, you can edit there 15:06:42 TOPIC: Chair for next 2 weeks. 15:06:50 sean: Designate mmartin3. 15:06:53 TOPIC: Issues 15:07:11 Issue-156? 15:07:11 ISSUE-156 -- semantics of missing #feature -- open 15:07:11 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/156 15:08:05 sean: Create a profile and don't mention a specific feature. Is it optional? Is it processed by the processor? 15:08:26 glenn: Don't have concrete text yet. Get in next 2 weeks. 15:09:55 mike: Create full set based on profile. What happens with required and optional. Discuss 2 parts - author and implications to the player. 15:10:33 sean: Indication whether the processor should process the document. What happens if the processor doesn' implement a feature included. 15:11:11 plh has joined #tt 15:11:15 +Plh 15:12:48 glenn: How to designate on a feature that are not desired to process, they can reject. 15:13:07 mike: What happens if not designated at optional or required. What does silence mean? 15:13:16 glenn: What about prohibited value? 15:14:06 andreas: Features or attributes have initial values. Signal a feature is not intended to be used by the processor. 15:14:26 sean: Have prohibited feature. Take silence as optional. 15:14:44 glenn: Prohibited value mean document is not valid? 15:14:49 sean: Valid but not processed. 15:16:24 glenn: What happens if the processor makes indirect use of it, such as fontSize. Document has initial value that is used. Processor not use fontSize? 15:17:02 sean: Look at individual features to decide wether this applies. 15:18:16 andreas: Rigid behavior is not necessary. Signal this feature isn't processed not that the document is rejected. 15:18:22 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:18:22 On the phone I see mmartin3, Sean, Andreas, mike, glenn, Thomas_Bause_Mason, +1.408.515.aadd, Plh 15:18:42 zakim, aadd is pal 15:18:42 +pal; got it 15:19:00 glenn: Need reject, ignore. 15:19:24 sean: Clarifying language in SE. 15:19:44 ...New capabilities in TTML 1.1. 15:20:22 RESOLVED: in 1.1, add value of "prohibited" for feature definitions, also add attribute "disposition" with values "error" and "ignore" 15:21:02 RESOLVED: in SE, add text indicating that absence of a feature in profile means same as "optional" 15:21:54 andreas: Is feature prohibited if ignored? 15:22:21 sean: Have prohibited and ignore? 15:22:42 glenn: Feature is out of scope for prohibited. This is seprate from ignore. 15:22:53 s/seprate/separate 15:25:02 Action Glenn Draft text for 2 resolutions: RESOLVED: in 1.1, add value of "prohibited" for feature definitions, also add attribute "disposition" with values "error" and "ignore" and RESOLVED: in SE, add text indicating that absence of a feature in profile means same as "optional". 15:25:03 Created ACTION-146 - Draft text for 2 resolutions: RESOLVED: in 1.1, add value of "prohibited" for feature definitions, also add attribute "disposition" with values "error" and "ignore" and RESOLVED: in SE, add text indicating that absence of a feature in profile means same as "optional". [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-02-28]. 15:25:22 Issue-157? 15:25:22 ISSUE-157 -- transformation profile -- open 15:25:22 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/157 15:26:23 glenn: Added some text in a note in SE. Need to check? 15:27:37 ...Add terms to Terminology. Add presentation and transformation. 15:27:42 ...Section 2.2. 15:28:41 Action Glenn Create definitions for presentation and transformation in Section 2.2 to handle Issue-157. 15:28:41 Created ACTION-147 - Create definitions for presentation and transformation in Section 2.2 to handle Issue-157. [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-02-28]. 15:28:54 Issue-179? 15:28:54 ISSUE-179 -- Interpreting the pixel measure -- open 15:28:54 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/179 15:29:06 sean: Need to post to list. 15:29:11 Style properties that operate in both the horizontal and vertical direction, such as border, outline thickness etc. may be specified using a single value which is based on the cell unit. When the cell is non-square, the computed value is calculated based on the height of the cell. For example: Given a root extent of 852px 480px and a ttp:cellResolution="30 20"; then in pixels the horizontal cell size is : 852/30 = 28.4 pixels, in the vertical 480/20 = 24 pixels. Th 15:29:53 he relative unit to be used is 28.4px. 15:30:48 mike: Is this the issue? Difference of pixel in display? 15:31:03 sean: This is on Issue-163. 15:31:08 Issue-163? 15:31:08 ISSUE-163 -- Clarify use of cell units in certain properties -- open 15:31:08 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/163 15:31:15 sean: See text above. 15:31:28 ...Style properties that operate in both the horizontal and vertical direction, such as border, outline thickness etc. may be specified using a single value which is based on the cell unit. When the cell is non-square, the computed value is calculated based on the height of the cell. For example: Given a root extent of 852px 480px and a ttp:cellResolution="30 20"; then in pixels the horizontal cell size is : 852/30 = 28.4 pixels, in the vertical 480/20 = 24[CUT] 15:31:42 ...The relative unit to be used is 28.4px 15:32:02 Generally agree. 15:32:36 ...Clarify on references to mean cell height. 15:33:17 Action Glenn Clarify cell units as Sean specified as follows: .Style properties that operate in both the horizontal and vertical direction, such as border, outline thickness etc. may be specified using a single value which is based on the cell unit. When the cell is non-square, the computed value is calculated based on the height of the cell. For example: Given a root extent of 852px 480px and a ttp:cellResolution="30 20"; then in pixels the horizontal cell[CUT] 15:33:17 Created ACTION-148 - Clarify cell units as Sean specified as follows: .Style properties that operate in both the horizontal and vertical direction, such as border, outline thickness etc. may be specified using a single value which is based on the cell unit. When the cell is non-square, the computed value is calculated based on the height of the cell. For example: Given a root extent of 852px 480px and a 15:33:18 ... ttp:cellResolution="30 20"; then in pixels the horizontal cell[CUT] [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-02-28]. 15:33:46 Issue-179? 15:33:46 ISSUE-179 -- Interpreting the pixel measure -- open 15:33:46 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/179 15:34:36 sean: Explains issue. Pixels are underlying video vs device pixels. 15:34:46 ...Clarify what they mean if we use. 15:34:56 ...Proposal in issue. 15:36:10 ...Netflix presentation - use device pixels, you get a strange presentation. 15:36:58 glenn: See CSS pixels. SVG may be closer to what we want. Review both. 15:38:21 zakim, mute pal 15:38:21 pal should now be muted 15:38:35 sean: Need time bounded so we can resolve for SE actions. 15:39:08 glenn: Will try to do the review. 15:39:20 David_Ronca has joined #tt 15:39:22 sean: Go to open list. 15:39:33 zakim, list attendees 15:39:33 As of this point the attendees have been +44.118.900.aaaa, Sean, +49.893.aabb, mmartin3, +1.858.847.aacc, glenn, mike, Andreas, Thomas_Bause_Mason, +1.408.515.aadd, Plh, pal 15:40:10 Action Glenn Review CSS pixels and SVG to suggest a resolution to Issue-179. 15:40:10 Created ACTION-149 - Review CSS pixels and SVG to suggest a resolution to Issue-179. [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-02-28]. 15:40:44 mike: Viewport is in the authoring phase. Then, you map to the video. 15:41:07 glenn: Can we give guidance when the implementation does different things. 15:41:13 s/./? 15:41:28 mike: Remaining in authoring expectation. 15:41:38 sean: How mapped is separate. 15:43:39 Issue-170? 15:43:39 ISSUE-170 -- Section 5.2 para 8 is vague regarding optionality of specifying profile in case where profile is negotiated/determined by 'document interchange process' -- open 15:43:39 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/170 15:44:10 sean: Is a profile optional when it is created by the document interchange process? 15:45:03 mike: We need to specify a profile guaranteed to be unique with URI. Back up and review further. 15:45:59 ...Close. 15:46:16 andreas: If a profile isn't exchanged with document, what does it mean? 15:46:34 mike: Element and attribute are optional. 15:46:59 andreas: Document can still be processed. 15:47:10 mike: Silence is presumed to be full? 15:47:48 sean: Empty set and everything becomes optional. 15:50:42 glenn: Need to review further before make suggestions. Profile element as use attribute to modify and extend. Speak to null or empty profile. 15:50:43 5.2: If neither ttp:profile attribute nor ttp:profile element is present in a TTML document instance, and if the Document Interchange Context does not make an implicit or explicit reference to a pre-defined Content Profile or does not specify a Profile Definition Document or another equivalent set of feature designations, then the DFXP Transformation profile applies. 15:51:34 glenn: Section 5.2 15:52:19 mike: Need to review this. 15:52:26 glenn: Need to be null profile. 15:52:39 sean: Semantic change. 15:52:50 mike: No one adheres to this. 15:53:41 sean: Argue if implicit, some profile applies which could be a null profile. 15:54:22 andreas: Common understanding should be supported work in the document. 15:54:39 glenn: Private agreement, outside spec, etc. 15:55:12 sean: Delete, "then the DFXP Transformation profile applies." 15:55:32 glenn: Can be convinced to do in SE. 15:55:44 mike: Clarify implicit reference to give the control. 15:56:16 Discuss options. 15:56:38 mike: Clarify implicit reference. 15:58:41 glenn: Take up on mailing list. 15:59:07 Issue-201? 15:59:07 ISSUE-201 -- How to specify aspect ratio to understand positioning that may apply for display or video. -- raised 15:59:07 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/201 15:59:52 mmartin3: What to do in SE? 16:00:05 sean: Influenced by pixel issues. 16:00:18 ..What is mapping to root container? What is expected? 16:01:02 mike: Separate in 1.0 SE and 1.1 work. 16:01:16 sean: Clarification in SE is needed. 16:02:13 ...Point forward. 16:02:36 ...Discuss on lst. 16:02:39 s/lst/list 16:02:49 -glenn 16:02:50 -Plh 16:02:51 -Andreas 16:02:51 -mike 16:02:52 -Thomas_Bause_Mason 16:03:00 -mmartin3 16:03:05 -Sean 16:03:13 -pal 16:03:13 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended 16:03:13 Attendees were +44.118.900.aaaa, Sean, +49.893.aabb, mmartin3, +1.858.847.aacc, glenn, mike, Andreas, Thomas_Bause_Mason, +1.408.515.aadd, Plh, pal 16:03:49 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:03:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-tt-minutes.html plh 16:04:02 trackbot, end meeting 16:04:02 Zakim, list attendees 16:04:02 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 16:04:10 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:04:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-tt-minutes.html trackbot 16:04:11 RRSAgent, bye 16:04:11 I see no action items