15:59:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
15:59:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-forms-irc
15:59:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:59:02 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #forms
15:59:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
15:59:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:05 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
15:59:05 <trackbot> Date: 20 February 2013
15:59:58 <nvdbleek> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Feb/0027.html
16:00:07 <nvdbleek> Chair: nvdbleek
16:00:26 <nvdbleek> Regrets: Steven, uli
16:00:49 <nvdbleek> Regrets: +Philip
16:00:55 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
16:01:08 <nvdbleek> s/Philip/Phillip/
16:01:12 <alain> alain has joined #forms
16:01:45 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
16:01:50 <Zakim> +ebruchez
16:01:56 <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
16:01:56 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
16:02:49 <Zakim> +nvdbleek
16:03:09 <nvdbleek> zakim, who is on the phone
16:03:09 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', nvdbleek
16:03:17 <nvdbleek> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see ebruchez, nvdbleek
16:03:19 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:03:35 <alain> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
16:03:35 <Zakim> ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
16:03:38 <nvdbleek> scribe: nvdbleek
16:03:57 <nvdbleek> Topic: ACTION-1931: Propose text for @accept on upload
16:04:05 <nvdbleek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Feb/0025.html
16:05:41 <nvdbleek> alain: It is not a problem for me that it is called accept, I even prefer it
16:06:31 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: I think we can keep it in the spec
16:07:11 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: On the previous call everybody aggreed, and now we have an extra implementer that agrees so we can make a resolution
16:07:33 <nvdbleek> RESOLUTION: We will change the medatype attribute on upload to accept
16:08:06 <nvdbleek> ACTION: nvdbleek to update the XML and relax-ng schema (change mediatype to accept on upload)
16:08:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1934 - Update the XML and relax-ng schema (change mediatype to accept on upload) [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2013-02-27].
16:08:34 <nvdbleek> Topic: The function Element
16:08:35 <nvdbleek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0028.html
16:09:01 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: i've been back and forth on this
16:10:24 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We need this for XPath 1.0 and 2.0 but in XPath 3.0 you can assign functions to a variable but not named functions
16:10:53 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: If we would have XPath 3.0+ or XQuery then the function element wasn't needed
16:11:20 <ebruchez> let foo := function() { …. }
16:11:30 <ebruchez> s/function/function0
16:12:30 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: I think we need it because you can't define named functions in Xpath 3.0 and we don't support to add variables in the model, so you can't refer to the function variables globally
16:13:43 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: Does Better Forms support adding functions in the form
16:13:57 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: They only support adding custom function in java
16:14:15 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: What about XSLTForms does it supports adding function in javascript
16:14:20 <nvdbleek> alain: yes
16:14:55 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: Are we going to do anything about it
16:15:57 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: Functions are needed, and XSLT did it already, but now wondering about it because XPath has now native functions
16:16:50 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: we can go one way or the other. The feature is not looking forward...
16:18:00 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: In Xpath 3.0 you don't have custom named functions
16:18:22 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: It is a bit strange that they aren't in XPath but are in XQuery
16:18:52 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: You want XQuery and XQuery update facility in XForms
16:19:28 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: It would be ideal that XForms could say that XForms 2.0 supports XQuery 3.0
16:20:20 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: I think that XQuery 3.0 support is currently only feasible for server side implementations
16:21:00 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: If we support the function element, we want to support variables? because Xpath 3.0 is introducing variables
16:22:31 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: I think we should support variables in functions because we only explicitly support XPath 1.0 and 2.0 and you want to use variables to simplify XPath expressions
16:24:08 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: If prefer a simplified syntax so you don't need elements as children (without variable support)
16:24:53 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: So you don't need variables
16:25:45 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: do you want to drop variable support, or do you want to different syntaxes
16:25:48 <ebruchez> <function>$i + $j</function>
16:27:27 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: What if we support <function>$n <var name="foo" value=".."/> $foo<function>
16:28:29 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: typically you won't simply return $foo but do a calculation on it
16:28:44 <nvdbleek> the result will be the sequence ($n, $foo) in this example
16:29:26 <ebruchez> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_function_Element
16:31:41 <nvdbleek> <function><seq value="$f"/><seq value="$g"/></function>
16:31:59 <nvdbleek> <function><seq value="($f, $g)"/></function>
16:32:22 <nvdbleek> <function>($f, $g)</function>
16:32:56 <ebruchez> <function><var>$f</function>
16:33:05 <ebruchez> <function><var><seq></function>
16:33:27 <ebruchez> <function><var><result/><function>
16:34:38 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: The last sytax looks fine for me, and also support only text content if you don't need variables
16:35:02 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: in Xpath 3.0 you don't have to use the var element because they have let
16:35:49 <nvdbleek> ACTION: Erik to send an e-mail proposing a lighter syntax for the function element
16:35:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1935 - Send an e-mail proposing a lighter syntax for the function element [on Erik Bruchez - due 2013-02-27].
16:37:07 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: if we are only allowing to define functions using XPath do we need the script element
16:37:20 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: I don't think we need
16:38:23 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: As it is written I think you can also use it as an action, and that is already implemented by a lot of implementations
16:39:03 <ebruchez> <action type="xpath">
16:39:03 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We can put javascript and xpath expressions in the script element
16:39:48 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We realised that we can use the action element, because it is just switching the language from xforms, to xpath or javascript
16:40:27 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: Is it used to call functions with side efects
16:40:32 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: Yes
16:41:19 <ebruchez> <xf:action type="xpath">
16:41:19 <ebruchez>     controlOps:setControlHelp($local/control-name, $local/help),
16:41:20 <ebruchez>     controlOps:setControlAlert($local/control-name, $local/alert)
16:41:21 <ebruchez> </xf:action>
16:41:45 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: It is calling native java functions
16:42:04 <nvdbleek> s/It is calling native java functions/The above sample is calling native java functions/
16:42:10 <ebruchez> https://gist.github.com/ebruchez/4996935
16:42:51 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: I don't know if Xpath is a good language for this
16:43:17 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: XQuery would be possibly better to be used as a script language
16:43:54 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: It is using XPath as scripting language
16:43:54 <ebruchez> http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery-sx-10/
16:44:37 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: Don't know if they are going to finish XQuery Scripting Extension
16:48:26 <Zakim> -nvdbleek
16:48:33 <Zakim> -ebruchez
16:48:36 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:48:37 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
16:48:37 <Zakim> Attendees were ebruchez, nvdbleek, [IPcaller]
16:48:44 <nvdbleek> trackbot, end meeting
16:48:44 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:48:44 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:48:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:48:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-forms-minutes.html trackbot
16:48:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:48:53 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-forms-actions.rdf :
16:48:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: nvdbleek to update the XML and relax-ng schema (change mediatype to accept on upload) [1]
16:48:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-forms-irc#T16-08-06
16:48:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Erik to send an e-mail proposing a lighter syntax for the function element [2]
16:48:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-forms-irc#T16-35-49