14:21:13 RRSAgent has joined #dap 14:21:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-dap-irc 14:21:15 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:21:15 Zakim has joined #dap 14:21:17 Zakim, this will be DAP 14:21:17 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 39 minutes 14:21:18 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 14:21:18 Date: 20 February 2013 14:21:55 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0070.html 14:22:15 fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279 ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0070.html 14:22:36 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 14:22:40 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 14:22:55 Regrets+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux 14:54:43 naomi has joined #dap 14:58:15 dcheng3 has joined #dap 14:59:38 dtran has joined #dap 15:00:09 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 15:00:16 +Josh_Soref 15:00:38 +[IPcaller] 15:00:39 +dcheng3 15:00:44 Present+ Diana_Cheng 15:00:53 zakim, [IPcaller] isme 15:00:53 I don't understand '[IPcaller] isme', fjh 15:01:06 zakim, [IPCaller] is me 15:01:06 +fjh; got it 15:01:09 Present+ Dzung_Tran 15:01:17 s/zakim, [IPcaller] isme// 15:01:24 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:01:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:01:46 + +1.858.750.aaaa 15:01:54 AnssiK has joined #dap 15:02:12 gmandyam has joined #dap 15:02:43 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 15:02:44 +??P22 15:02:50 zakim, ??P22 is me 15:02:50 +AnssiK; got it 15:03:32 zakim, aaaa is gmandyam 15:03:32 +gmandyam; got it 15:03:34 zakim, who is here? 15:03:34 On the phone I see Josh_Soref, fjh, dcheng3, gmandyam, AnssiK 15:03:35 On IRC I see gmandyam, AnssiK, dtran, dcheng3, naomi, Zakim, RRSAgent, tobie, lgombos, fjh, slightlyoff, Josh_Soref, mounir, trackbot 15:04:23 Milan_Patel has joined #dap 15:06:01 Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements 15:06:11 +Milan_Patel 15:07:51 scribe: Josh_Soref 15:08:19 + +1.781.267.aabb 15:08:25 Media Capture Task Force F2F 5-7 February, minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-capture/2013Feb/0034.html 15:08:36 Cathy has joined #dap 15:08:42 zakim, aabb is cathy 15:08:42 +cathy; got it 15:09:32 fjh: there wasn't anything particularly surprising at the meeting 15:09:40 ... there's progress being made on recording 15:09:46 ... and on audio-video stuff 15:09:57 Topic: Minutes Approval 15:10:02 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/att-0023/minutes-2013-02-06.html 15:10:07 fjh: is there any concern about approving the minutes? 15:10:12 proposed RESOLUTION: Draft minutes from 6 February 2013 are approved. 15:10:23 RESOLUTION: Draft minutes from 6 February 2013 are approved. 15:10:35 Topic: F2F Planning & Web Intents / Web Activities 15:10:41 fjh: we need to decide on a F2F 15:10:47 ... and we need to decide the work we're doing 15:10:51 ... and we need to lock down a date 15:10:56 ... i'm stuck on what to do as a chair 15:11:05 ... if we don't do Web Intents 15:11:35 ... or something similar, then i'm not sure how we'll progress contacts and similar 15:11:46 F2F in June 3-7 or 17-21 in Dusseldorf? 15:11:48 ... and then i'm not sure what we need for a F2F 15:12:03 ... F2F hosting by dcheng3 15:12:08 ... i'd argue we should lock one of those down 15:12:11 TPAC 2013: Nov 18-22 in Shenzhen - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jan/0095.html 15:12:35 ... if we don't meet in June, then we'd probably meet earlier 15:12:47 ... it's hard to decide if we don't know where web intents is going 15:13:04 ... dcheng3, you mentioned you could reserve both and cancel one later? 15:13:08 dcheng3: yes 15:13:13 Close all actions on Web Intents ? ACTION-519, ACTION-550, ACTION-551, ACTION-556, ACTION-574, ACTION-591 15:13:14 fjh: ok, let's do that 15:13:32 ACTION-519? 15:13:32 ACTION-519 -- Claes Nilsson to add a proposal for hidden disposition. -- due 2012-08-15 -- OPEN 15:13:32 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/519 15:13:38 action-550? 15:13:38 ACTION-550 -- James Hawkins to add event for on load to webintents spec -- due 2012-07-17 -- OPEN 15:13:38 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/550 15:13:38 fjh: i think we can close these actions, we can always reopen them later 15:13:46 ACTION-551? 15:13:46 ACTION-551 -- James Hawkins to share proposal on list to handle dynamic insertion/removal etc of tags -- due 2012-07-17 -- OPEN 15:13:46 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/551 15:13:53 ACTION-556? 15:13:53 ACTION-556 -- Robin Berjon to set up test repository with example, docs, manifest generation for Web Intents -- due 2012-07-18 -- OPEN 15:13:53 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/556 15:13:58 ACTION-574? 15:13:58 ACTION-574 -- Josh Soref to create facebook WebIntents Pick Contacts provider -- due 2012-09-05 -- OPEN 15:13:58 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/574 15:14:10 ACTION-591? 15:14:10 ACTION-591 -- Greg Billock to work with mounir to create new webintents draft that reflects web activities and issues -- due 2012-11-08 -- OPEN 15:14:10 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/591 15:14:33 close ACTION-519 15:14:33 Closed ACTION-519 Add a proposal for hidden disposition.. 15:14:38 close ACTION-550 15:14:38 Closed ACTION-550 add event for on load to webintents spec. 15:14:42 action-551 15:14:42 ACTION-551 -- James Hawkins to share proposal on list to handle dynamic insertion/removal etc of tags -- due 2012-07-17 -- OPEN 15:14:42 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/551 15:14:53 close action-551 15:14:53 Closed ACTION-551 share proposal on list to handle dynamic insertion/removal etc of tags. 15:15:28 close action-556 15:15:28 Closed ACTION-556 Set up test repository with example, docs, manifest generation for Web Intents. 15:15:36 close action-574 15:15:36 Closed ACTION-574 Create facebook WebIntents Pick Contacts provider. 15:15:49 close action-591 15:15:49 Closed ACTION-591 Work with mounir to create new webintents draft that reflects web activities and issues. 15:16:53 hiroto has joined #dap 15:17:40 hiroto has joined #dap 15:17:43 WebKit Bugzilla entry "remove web intents code" https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109501 15:20:16 fjh: removal of code means no longer part of build, josh notes that code it depends on could change, breaking it if it were to be restored later 15:20:30 anssik: suggests there might be a replacement? 15:20:34 s/fjh/scribe 15:20:35 s/fjh/scribe 15:20:37 s/fjh/scribe 15:20:43 s/scribe: removal/fjh: scribe/ 15:21:08 fjh: web activities only limited to local device, not web case 15:21:20 s/fjh/scribe 15:21:21 s/fjh/scribe 15:21:28 Scribe: fjh 15:21:37 s/scribe: web/fjh: web 15:21:39 anssik: mounir and jonas suggested it could be extended to web, but yes currently scoped more toward sysapps 15:22:06 Scribe: Josh_Soref 15:22:34 fjh: we're at a point where we must make decisions as a group for what the group does 15:23:01 Topic: Network Service Discovery 15:23:23 fjh: i know there's been a lot of list discussion 15:23:32 Additional spec updates based on Cathy's latest comments and naming item? 15:23:33 ... there were additional spec updates based on Cathy 's comments 15:23:37 ... but there are still more required 15:23:40 Update introduction to clarify scope, related to thread since last call? 15:23:41 ... Cathy made more comments, great, thank you 15:23:58 fjh: send rich email re suggestions 15:24:01 ... richt isn't on the call 15:24:12 Publish updated WD (previously published 4 Oct 2012) 15:24:32 ... Cathy, are we getting to the point where it's worth publishing another draft? 15:24:48 Cathy: yeah, i think if we have the update, then it's a good time to publish another WD 15:25:08 action: fjh to check with richt re network service discovery API updates and WD publication 15:25:08 Created ACTION-614 - Check with richt re network service discovery API updates and WD publication [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-02-27]. 15:25:26 fjh: is there an indication of when you'll be available? 15:25:53 Topic: Battery 15:26:01 Update to editors draft, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0036.html 15:26:08 fjh: there's an update to the ED from mounir 15:26:29 AnssiK: the changes make the interface definition align with modern specs 15:26:36 ... nothing that affects implementations 15:26:42 ... on testing, i think there's nothing to do 15:26:49 fjh: so we should not need to cycle back to LC and CR 15:26:59 ... the test suite is there, waiting for implementations to pass 15:27:13 s/fjh/scribe 15:27:13 s/fjh/scribe 15:27:13 s/scribe: so/fjh: so/ 15:27:25 AnssiK: there's a question of if we do a new LC 15:27:32 ... or go straight to CR 15:27:50 ... we changed the idl to partial interface? 15:27:55 s/?// 15:28:09 fjh: so it just changed the language for hooking? 15:28:10 AnssiK: yes 15:28:19 action: check with DOM that CR to PR status still ok despite Battery update by Mounir 15:28:19 Error finding 'check'. You can review and register nicknames at . 15:28:36 AnssiK: partial interface means no need for [NoInterfaceObject] 15:28:40 action: to check with DOM that CR to PR status still ok despite Battery update by Mounir 15:28:40 Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at . 15:28:57 action: fjh to check with DOM that CR to PR status still ok despite Battery update by member:Mounir 15:28:57 Created ACTION-615 - check with DOM that CR to PR status still ok despite Battery update by member:Mounir [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-02-27]. 15:29:24 Topic: OMA Liaison/ network efficiency 15:29:42 Tobie suggests providing APIs that offer functionality in efficient manner (e.g. background upload) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0058.html 15:29:42 move topic and discussion to "Network-Friendly App and WebApp Best Practices Community Group" or coremob ? 15:29:42 http://www.w3.org/community/networkfriendly/ 15:29:42 http://www.w3.org/community/coremob/ 15:30:02 fjh: the networkfriendly CG has been active for a while 15:30:13 +1 to push the work to CoreMob 15:30:14 ... i think coremob is probably where the Document should go 15:30:28 fjh: i suggest Bryan propose this to coremob 15:30:38 Topic: SysApps and DAP Coordination 15:30:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0033.html (Frederick) 15:30:47 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0067.html (Wonsuk) 15:30:47 defer discussion to list? 15:31:05 ACTION-612? 15:31:05 ACTION-612 -- Frederick Hirsch to review SysApps and DAP overlap and discuss with SysApps chairs -- due 2013-02-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:31:05 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/612 15:31:09 close ACTION-612 15:31:10 Closed ACTION-612 Review SysApps and DAP overlap and discuss with SysApps chairs. 15:31:21 Topic: Proximity/Light 15:31:30 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0022.html 15:32:07 fjh: i can't figure out how to close the LC comments because i haven't gotten a response from dougt 15:32:18 Josh_Soref: isn't that dom's job? 15:32:20 fjh: I think we are all set on comments, but almost all set 15:32:24 q+ 15:32:32 fjh: dom said if you don't get a response in reasonable time... 15:32:38 Question on Action 612 15:33:05 Zakim, who is on the call? 15:33:05 On the phone I see Josh_Soref, fjh, dcheng3, gmandyam, AnssiK, Milan_Patel, cathy 15:33:06 q+ 15:33:12 ack gmandyam 15:33:37 gmandyam: we mentioned Pick-Contact 15:33:54 ... i thought when we talked with SysApps, we were talking about resurrecting the old Contacts-API 15:34:00 ... what exactly is the overlap 15:34:11 ... the webintents dependent stuff, or the old stuff? 15:34:17 fjh: i think it's the definition of the data 15:34:32 ... whether you use the SysApps API or the Pick-Contact API 15:34:38 ... you'd get back a vCard object 15:34:46 ... i think we should separate that out 15:34:51 gmandyam: as a joint deliverable? 15:34:59 fjh: either joint or as a deliverable of this group 15:35:39 ack AnssiK 15:35:54 AnssiK: i volunteered to help rick draft his proposal 15:35:58 ... but i haven't heard back 15:36:20 fjh: does it make sense to pursue that? 15:36:30 AnssiK: it sounds like he doesn't have immediate cycles 15:36:38 fjh: it doesn't seem like there was support for doing it 15:36:50 AnssiK: i haven't heard support for rick's proposal from others 15:36:54 ... especially implementers 15:37:06 ... who support the existing work 15:37:14 fjh: he had some privacy stuff? 15:37:27 AnssiK: the privacy comment was orthogonal to the design discussion 15:37:37 ... i think that's in the agenda 15:37:51 ... we can close that issue, there was no support for improving the privacy 15:38:23 ... i'll send an email to him 15:38:46 Topic: Action Review 15:38:54 ACTION-565? 15:38:54 ACTION-565 -- Josh Soref to propose text for HTML Media Capture to allow for alternative capture device if specified device not available -- due 2012-08-22 -- OPEN 15:38:54 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/565 15:40:28 josh_soref: probably moot 15:40:34 fjh: falls back to file, no 15:40:43 Josh_Soref: actually, i think i need to send a note 15:40:44 josh_soref: not sure about video 15:41:06 action-592? 15:41:06 ACTION-592 -- Niklas Widell to provide draft sensors landscape document -- due 2012-11-09 -- OPEN 15:41:06 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/592 15:41:09 ... because if you were asked for video/*, the UA should also allow a mic- input if you don't have a video- input 15:41:34 action: fjh to send message to Niklas re ACTION-592 then close 15:41:35 Created ACTION-616 - Send message to Niklas re ACTION-592 then close [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-02-27]. 15:41:48 Topic: Issue Review 15:41:53 ISSUE-125? 15:41:53 ISSUE-125 -- Capabilities API compatibility with web privacy and security, assuming untrusted, fingerprinting risk -- open 15:41:53 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/125 15:42:31 fjh: believe this can be closed, sounds sysapps api specific? 15:44:47 Clarke has joined #dap 15:45:39 close ISSUE-125 15:45:39 Closed ISSUE-125 Capabilities API compatibility with web privacy and security, assuming untrusted, fingerprinting risk. 15:46:20 josh_soref: we should be careful to make clear that DAP supports security and privacy through user interaction as opposed to policy mechanism 15:49:28 dcheng3: i can add a note to the youtube video in the comments section 15:49:39 fjh: adding a note that user interaction drives things, is good 15:50:09 ISSUE-126? 15:50:09 ISSUE-126 -- Should DAP review and take advantage of SysApps security models -- open 15:50:09 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/126 15:51:09 fjh: suggest we close this, as DAP will not overlap sysapps in this area 15:51:25 close ISSUE-126 15:51:26 Closed ISSUE-126 Should DAP review and take advantage of SysApps security models. 15:51:34 ISSUE-127? 15:51:34 ISSUE-127 -- Status section of Battery CR draft should include exit criteria and at-risk items -- open 15:51:34 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/127 15:52:27 fjh: this material should have been in status section 15:53:05 maybe we should republish CR draft to incorporate Mounir's change and an update to the status section 15:54:11 fjh: need to be clear on exit criteria 15:54:19 hiroto has joined #dap 15:54:21 Josh_Soref: i think that TPAC is the correct place for discussing "how does one progress a spec to REC if the only rendering engine being developed is WebKit" 15:54:44 AnssiK: the exit criteria is 2 implementations 15:54:57 no features at risk 15:55:00 ... do Safari, Chrome, and future Opera count as possibly 2? 15:55:09 fjh: you were silent on this? 15:55:11 AnssiK: yes 15:55:44 Josh_Soref: for this spec, there's a Firefox impl too 15:55:50 ... so this isn't relevant to us for this spec 15:56:20 AnssiK: what makes an implementation 15:56:27 ... Firefox the browser is an implementation 15:56:35 ... is FirefoxOS an implementation? 15:56:47 fjh: given that we rely on Browser security model 15:57:01 ... i don't think we can count things that don't include the security model 15:57:17 fjh: i know we said no experimental implementations 15:57:24 ... we need to document the exit-criteria 15:57:42 ... if we don't have them documented, then someone from team will flag it when we try to exit 15:58:24 fjh: i think Vibration has the same issue 15:58:31 ... the status section should have exit-criteria 15:58:58 ISSUE-128? 15:58:58 ISSUE-128 -- Need more description on how bandwidth should be estimated -- open 15:58:58 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/128 15:59:07 Topic: Testing 15:59:25 Josh_Soref: i'd like to move vibration forward 15:59:44 ... but the vibration tests are only contributions 16:00:03 AnssiK: i need a device 16:00:10 Josh_Soref: ok, i'll try to get dev-rel to send you one 16:00:52 fjh: we need two implementations 16:01:04 Josh_Soref: i'm pretty sure Gecko has an implementation 16:01:12 fjh: so you should be asking for a Gecko device too 16:01:22 AnssiK: yeah, sure 16:01:42 ... i've been looking for Firefox OS devices, but they're in short supply 16:05:33 Topic: AOB 16:05:38 fjh: thanks everyone 16:05:43 -AnssiK 16:05:44 [ Adjourned ] 16:05:46 trackbot, end meeting 16:05:46 Zakim, list attendees 16:05:47 As of this point the attendees have been Josh_Soref, dcheng3, fjh, +1.858.750.aaaa, AnssiK, gmandyam, Milan_Patel, +1.781.267.aabb, cathy 16:05:48 -Milan_Patel 16:05:48 -fjh 16:05:50 -gmandyam 16:05:50 -dcheng3 16:05:53 -cathy 16:05:54 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:05:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-dap-minutes.html trackbot 16:05:55 UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended 16:05:55 Attendees were Josh_Soref, dcheng3, fjh, +1.858.750.aaaa, AnssiK, gmandyam, Milan_Patel, +1.781.267.aabb, cathy 16:05:55 RRSAgent, bye 16:05:55 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-dap-actions.rdf : 16:05:55 ACTION: fjh to check with richt re network service discovery API updates and WD publication [1] 16:05:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-dap-irc#T15-25-08 16:05:55 ACTION: check with DOM that CR to PR status still ok despite Battery update by Mounir [2] 16:05:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-dap-irc#T15-28-19 16:05:55 ACTION: to check with DOM that CR to PR status still ok despite Battery update by Mounir [3] 16:05:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-dap-irc#T15-28-40 16:05:55 ACTION: fjh to check with DOM that CR to PR status still ok despite Battery update by member:Mounir [4] 16:05:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-dap-irc#T15-28-57 16:05:55 ACTION: fjh to send message to Niklas re ACTION-592 then close [5] 16:05:55 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/20-dap-irc#T15-41-34