17:45:45 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:45:45 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-irc 17:45:47 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:45:47 Zakim has joined #ua 17:45:49 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 17:45:49 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes 17:45:50 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 17:45:50 Date: 14 February 2013 17:46:14 rrsagent, make logs public 17:49:30 Agenda+ conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc) 17:49:32 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0026.html 17:49:33 Agenda+ Eric Hansen review of UAAG2 20 Dec 2012 editor's draft 17:49:35 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0015.htm 17:49:36 Agenda+ Response to HTML5 Accessibility Taskforce Bugs 17:49:38 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0039.html 17:49:39 Agenda+ What is a User Agent - Jan, glossary musings 17:49:41 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0045.html 17:49:42 Agenda+ Jeanne Creating tests for SC verification in Candidate Review. 17:55:30 kford has joined #ua 17:57:59 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:58:05 + +1.609.734.aaaa 17:59:11 EricHansen has joined #ua 18:00:26 +Jim_Allan 18:00:42 Jan has joined #ua 18:00:43 zakim, aaaa is really EricHansen 18:00:43 +EricHansen; got it 18:00:49 zakim, code? 18:00:49 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 18:00:59 +[IPcaller] 18:01:26 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 18:01:26 +Jan; got it 18:02:43 +Jeanne 18:02:48 jeanne has joined #ua 18:03:00 Greg has joined #ua 18:03:47 +Greg_Lowney 18:08:38 zakim, agenda? 18:08:38 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 18:08:40 1. conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc) [from allanj] 18:08:40 2. Eric Hansen review of UAAG2 20 Dec 2012 editor's draft [from allanj] 18:08:40 3. Response to HTML5 Accessibility Taskforce Bugs [from allanj] 18:08:40 4. What is a User Agent - Jan, glossary musings [from allanj] 18:08:40 5. Jeanne Creating tests for SC verification in Candidate Review. [from allanj] 18:11:44 KimPatch has joined #ua 18:12:01 +Kim_Patch 18:12:16 http://mothereffingtoolconfuser.com/ 18:12:17 http://mothereffingtoolconfuser.com/ 18:16:57 zakim, open Item 3 18:16:57 agendum 3. "Response to HTML5 Accessibility Taskforce Bugs" taken up [from allanj] 18:17:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0039.html 18:18:30 scribe: allanj 18:18:47 Jim gives an overview of the bugs and response 18:19:49 regrets: simon 18:20:25 jan; no concerns 18:20:35 kim: no concerns 18:25:00 jeanne: no concerns 18:25:38 action: jim to send bug response report to html5 A11y taskforce 18:25:38 Created ACTION-799 - Send bug response report to html5 A11y taskforce [on Jim Allan - due 2013-02-21]. 18:25:56 zakim, close item 3 18:25:56 agendum 3, Response to HTML5 Accessibility Taskforce Bugs, closed 18:25:58 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:25:58 1. conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc) [from allanj] 18:26:29 zakim, close item 1 18:26:29 agendum 1, conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc), closed 18:26:32 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:26:32 2. Eric Hansen review of UAAG2 20 Dec 2012 editor's draft [from allanj] 18:29:37 zakim, open item 5 18:29:37 agendum 5. "Jeanne Creating tests for SC verification in Candidate Review." taken up [from allanj] 18:30:28 what the group will have to do after last call to get ready for candidate recommendation. 18:31:41 during CR, the spec is 'almost' complete. W3 says evaluate, send comments, begin implementation. 18:32:09 need to find 2 real world implementations, write a report and move to next level 18:32:26 need to think ahead to CR 18:33:10 1. decide how we structure the CR Exit Criteria. under what conditions is the spec successful. 18:33:37 the criteria must be approved by W3. the criteria and spec must be credible. 18:34:42 2. (big) need to write 'tests' for each SC across many products. we will use during CR. 18:35:51 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ATAG20tests/ATAG2-10April2012PublicWD-Tests-rev20121119 18:37:14 a) define test procedures 18:38:02 b) things the tester needs to know before they begin testing 18:39:24 c) specific test for each SC. each test has an Assertion - for 1 item. if multiple items in an SC, each needs and Assertion 18:40:42 To clarify, an SC might have multiple tests even if it doesn't have sub-items. 18:41:03 (e.g. ATAG A.2.1.1.) 18:42:22 UAAG can use WCAG tests items for the purpose of testing UAAG SC. to ensure the UA does what it supposed to do based on WCAG code. 18:43:21 -Greg_Lowney 18:43:58 we have a wiki page http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Extensions_needed_for_Implementation_Examples 18:45:38 +[Microsoft] 18:46:03 zakim, microsoft is kford 18:46:03 +kford; got it 18:46:36 if you find extensions, or implementations (mobile or otherwise) please put them here. 18:49:03 WCAG CR exit criteria -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/CR-WCAG20-20080430/#status 18:51:29 zakim, close item 5 18:51:29 agendum 5, Jeanne Creating tests for SC verification in Candidate Review., closed 18:51:31 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:51:31 2. Eric Hansen review of UAAG2 20 Dec 2012 editor's draft [from allanj] 18:52:07 Action: jim to create wiki page for SC testing criteria. 18:52:07 Created ACTION-800 - Create wiki page for SC testing criteria. [on Jim Allan - due 2013-02-21]. 18:53:21 topic: ReChartering 18:53:23 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/uawg_charter 18:53:40 need to recharter by mid-march 18:54:12 need to create a new time line. 18:57:27 q+ 18:58:29 kf: we are more aspirational in our charter. need to more realistic 18:59:22 js: need to spell out all the steps necessary to meet milestones 19:00:32 jr: time to write tests. UA and AU are very different. They are not machine checkable. It takes longer. 19:02:56 ack kelly 19:02:58 ack kford 19:04:53 + +1.425.381.aabb 19:07:11 -kford 19:07:23 topic: glossary gardening 19:07:58 proposed: *operating system (OS)*: Software that supports a computer's basic functions, such as scheduling tasks, executing applications, and managing hardware and peripherals. 19:08:00 - Note: Many operating systems mediate communication between executing applications and assistive technology via a platform accessibility service. 19:08:59 UA talks about OS as part of platform. 19:12:40 Update: *platform*: The software environment(s) within which the authoring tool operates. Platforms provide a consistent operational environment on top of lower level software platforms or hardware. *Non-web-based* platforms include desktop *operating systems* (e.g. Linux, MacOS, Windows, etc.), mobile operating systems (e.g. Android, Blackberry, iOS, Windows Phone, etc.), and cross-OS... 19:12:41 ...environments (e.g. Java). *Web-based* platforms are other user agents. User agents may also employ server-based processing, such as web content transformations, text-to-speech production, etc.. 19:12:43 - Note 1: A user agent may include functionality hosted on multiple platforms (e.g. a browser running on the desktop may include server-based pre-processing and web-based documentation). 19:12:44 - Note 2: Accessibility guidelines for developers exist for many platforms. 19:12:57 [REMOVE] operating environment --> platform 19:14:23 updated definition of user agent from Jan. incorporating comments from Greg. 19:15:04 ----------------- 19:15:09 [UPDATE] *user agent*: Software that retrieves, renders and facilitates end-user interaction with Web content. If the software only performs these functions for time-based media, then the software is typically referred to as a *media player*, otherwise, the more general designation *browser* is used. UAAG 2.0 identifies several user agent architectures: 19:15:11 - *Stand-alone*: These user agents run on non-Web platforms (operating systems and cross-OS platforms, such as Java) and perform content retrieval, rendering and end-user interaction facilitation themselves. (e.g., Firefox, IE, Chrome, Opera). 19:15:12 - *Embedded*: These user agents "plug-in" to stand-alone user agents in order to rendering and facilitate end-user interaction for content types (e.g., multimedia), that the stand-alone user agent is not able to. Embedded user agents establish direct connections with the platform (e.g. communication via platform accessibility services). 19:15:14 - *Web-based*: These user agents operate by (a) transforming the web content into a technology that the stand-alone (or embedded) user agent can render and (b) injecting the user agent's own user interface functionality into the content to be rendered. 19:15:15 - *Webview Component*: These user agents are used to package web content into non-web-based applications, especially on mobile platforms. *If the finished application is used to retrieves, renders and facilitates end-user interaction with Web content of the end-users choosing, then the application should be considered a stand-alone user agent. If the finished application only renders a... 19:15:17 ...constrained set of content specified by the developer, then the application should not be considered a user agent.* 19:15:18 Note 1: Any of these user agent architectures may also employ server-based processing, such as web content transformations, text-to-speech production, etc. 19:15:20 Note 2: User agents may also include *authoring tool* features. (see "Relationship to the Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines (ATAG) 2.0" http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130108/#intro-atag) 19:18:33 [ADD] User agent extensions (add-ins): Software installed into a user agent that has an extension feature in order to modify the behavior of the user agent. Two common capabilities for user agent extensions are the ability to *modify the content* before the user agent renders it (e.g., to add highlights if certain types of alternative content are present) and to *modify the user agent's own... 19:18:34 ...user interface * (e.g. add a headings view). 19:20:21 jr: AA app is data driven, some data structure. comes into the app, gets rendered. puts it on the screen. there is a big difference between doing the simple data rendering, and the user telling the UA where to go to get information. 19:20:30 ... makes our work easier. 19:20:47 js: dividing line is not clear. understand the concern. 19:21:07 user is selecting the data by choosing the app to get specific data 19:21:26 or user following a link, 19:21:57 jr: difference between user choosing versus author choosing. 19:22:17 AA app, is a data view widget. 19:23:00 eh: distinction not very sharp. 19:23:40 scribe: jeanne 19:24:08 JA: it will be hard to write tests for apps. Apps are more dependent on the hardware platform 19:24:26 JR: These are also covered by WCAG 19:25:16 s/Apps are more dependent on the hardware platform/Apps are more dependent on the hardware platform. Should we fail all Android apps because it doesn't have a zoom? 19:27:27 [add] second definition of user agent: 19:27:28 2. The software that is the subject of the conformance claim. This the meaning of “user agent” as referred to in success criteria. 19:28:53 scribe: allanj 19:30:30 eh: UA vs app, and what are you evaluating to make a conformance claim. if you evaluate something against the UAAG20 guidelines then it is a UA 19:32:25 jr: under user extensions. the UA has the extension feature. something plugs into the extension feature. 19:33:08 eh: wanted to keep the boundary between UA and the extension. is an extension part of the UA or not. 19:35:59 jr: if the user agent has a feature that allows extension. then thing that use that feature are extensions. There are base user agents. extensions are separate from the borwser. 19:36:50 ISSUE: further discussion needed on mobile apps being UAs or not. Are they covered totally by WCAG 19:36:51 Created ISSUE-97 - Further discussion needed on mobile apps being UAs or not. Are they covered totally by WCAG; please complete additional details at . 19:37:48 eh: time on glossary is very important. 19:37:58 ... thanks to Jan for the efforts. 19:40:38 - +1.425.381.aabb 19:40:41 -Kim_Patch 19:40:44 -EricHansen 19:40:45 -Jan 19:40:46 -Jim_Allan 19:40:46 -Jeanne 19:40:48 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 19:40:48 Attendees were +1.609.734.aaaa, Jim_Allan, EricHansen, Jan, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, kford, +1.425.381.aabb 19:42:41 action: Jeanne to add Jan's proposal on glossary cleanup with edits from Eric (editor's discretion) 19:42:41 Created ACTION-801 - Add Jan's proposal on glossary cleanup with edits from Eric (editor's discretion) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-02-21]. 19:42:56 rrsagent, make minutes 19:42:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-minutes.html jeanne 19:56:26 close action-799 19:56:26 Closed ACTION-799 Send bug response report to html5 A11y taskforce. 20:08:15 close Action-800 20:08:15 Closed ACTION-800 Create wiki page for SC testing criteria.. 20:08:39 rrsagent, make minutes 20:08:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-minutes.html allanj 20:08:49 zakim, please part 20:08:49 Zakim has left #ua 20:10:17 chair: JimAllan, KellyFord 20:11:20 rrsagent, make minutes 20:11:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-minutes.html allanj 20:11:40 rrsagent, please part 20:11:40 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-actions.rdf : 20:11:40 ACTION: jim to send bug response report to html5 A11y taskforce [1] 20:11:40 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-irc#T18-25-38 20:11:40 ACTION: jim to create wiki page for SC testing criteria. [2] 20:11:40 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-irc#T18-52-07 20:11:40 ACTION: Jeanne to add Jan's proposal on glossary cleanup with edits from Eric (editor's discretion) [3] 20:11:40 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-irc#T19-42-41