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14:53:42 <fsasaki> meeting: mlw-lt wg
14:53:44 <fsasaki> chair: felix
14:54:06 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0050.html
14:54:30 <fsasaki> regrets: Jörg, shaun, yves, dF, christian
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14:55:07 <fsasaki> present+ felix
14:55:15 <DomJones1> present+ DomJones
14:55:25 <fsasaki> topic: roll call
14:55:29 <fsasaki> checking attendance ...
14:55:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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15:00:23 <leroy> present+ leroy
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15:01:25 <Marcis> Sure
15:01:32 <fsasaki> scribe: Marcis
15:01:34 <Marcis> But I do not know the commands
15:01:51 <fsasaki> felix: bla bla
15:01:52 <Marcis> Ok
15:02:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:02:49 <fsasaki> present+ olaf-michael
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15:03:58 <fsasaki> present+ ankit
15:04:00 <Ankit> present+ Ankit
15:04:05 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0050.html
15:04:15 <fsasaki> topic: Prague ITS2 presence
15:05:08 <Marcis> felix: Carl & Frederick gave a presentation in XML Prague
15:05:39 <Marcis> felix: topic of the presentation - building more connectors
15:06:24 <Marcis> felix: connectors between ITS 2.0 supported systems (from XML editor, e.g., to OKAPI, etc.)
15:06:47 <Marcis> felix: Good progress in implementation work
15:07:20 <Marcis> felix: If there are resources left in the second half, maybe there could be implementations on connectors between tools
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15:07:34 <fsasaki> present+ kfritsche
15:07:48 <fsasaki> topic: "high level use cases" document publishing
15:07:50 <Marcis> >> second half -> second half of 2013
15:08:06 <Milan> present+ Milan
15:08:22 <Marcis> felix: by Feb 15th people need to update Wiki
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15:08:34 <pnietoca> present+ pnietoca
15:08:36 <fsasaki> topic: xml:lang vs. lang issue-110
15:09:12 <Marcis> felix: There was no clear outcome of the discussion (in previous call)
15:09:29 <Marcis> felix: Is there something more needed?
15:10:23 <Marcis> Dave: Last Mondays call, it came down to change wording in the specification - the general issue where ITS applies in HTML where it is XML
15:10:43 <Marcis> Dave: We discussed in the call that there should be a note
15:10:52 <Marcis> Dave: Or a best practice
15:11:29 <Marcis> Dave: The wording refers to when you work with XHTML in Web
15:11:48 <Marcis> Dave: There was no solution if we would use XHTML as an internal format
15:12:43 <Marcis> Felix: talked to Jirka, he said that easy guidance could be that if it is XHTML you handle it as XML, but if you need to publish it, it could be changed to "its-"
15:12:59 <Marcis> Dave: Could be good clarification
15:13:15 <Marcis> Felix: Jirka not here, so we cannot create the note
15:13:24 <fsasaki> action: jirka to draft an explanatory note on issue-110 - where ITS applies in HTML where it is XML, including a workflow on the web and outside the web
15:13:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-444 - Draft an explanatory note on issue-110 - where ITS applies in HTML where it is XML, including a workflow on the web and outside the web [on Jirka Kosek - due 2013-02-18].
15:13:25 <Marcis> Felix: Could be useful to Linguaserve
15:13:41 <fsasaki> topic: NIF comments
15:13:46 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0015.html
15:13:55 <Marcis> Felix: waiting for Christian to get back on us
15:14:42 <Marcis> Felix: Later in the call, term+disamb
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15:15:00 <Marcis> Felix: Could help resolve the Nif comment
15:15:20 <tadej> present+ tadej
15:15:22 <Marcis> Dave: It has come up with the Indic languages+disambig.
15:15:38 <Marcis> Dave: Also possibly Loc.note, etc.
15:15:53 <fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/109
15:16:18 <Marcis> Dave: Got a response on NIF (in e-mail
15:16:45 <Marcis> Felix: Is there someone writing / do we have the manpower
15:17:05 <fsasaki> action: felix to write a note about NIF  role for standoff scenarios (might include issue-68 and issue-109
15:17:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-445 - Write a note about NIF  role for standoff scenarios (might include issue-68 and issue-109 [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-02-18].
15:17:08 <Marcis> Felix: Writing himself an action on Issue 68 and 109
15:17:39 <Marcis> Dave: The note first and then we will see
15:18:02 <Marcis> Dave: Working with Leroy on best practice where NIF predicates could be used
15:18:21 <Marcis> Dave: but there are no examples yet
15:18:32 <Marcis> Felix: wants to do dreaming around
15:18:50 <Marcis> Felix: dreams about standardising NIF through W3C
15:19:08 <Marcis> Felix: Could it be a topic to discuss?
15:19:28 <Marcis> Dave: The onto-lexica group maybe is interested
15:19:38 <Marcis> Dave: maybe also in CNGL
15:20:09 <Marcis> Dave: It could fit well - could be interesting (also to DCU)
15:20:43 <Marcis> Dave: There hasn't been much activity on the onto-lexica group
15:20:55 <Marcis> Dave: But we could put the idea on the table
15:21:27 <Marcis> Could someone turn the music off
15:21:43 <fsasaki> done :)
15:22:04 <Marcis> Dave: NIF plays a big role in [some events]
15:22:17 <fsasaki> = european data forum etc.
15:22:18 <fsasaki> topic:  Space normalization for its:locNOte
15:22:30 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0049.html
15:23:18 <Marcis> Shon: Minor issue, we have no spec. that states in the loc note element for space normalisation.
15:23:31 <Marcis> Shon: not clear whether it should be normalised
15:23:42 <Marcis> Shon: seems clear that everyone does it
15:23:57 <Marcis> Shon: Should we get into details how it should be normalised?
15:24:06 <fsasaki> this is now https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/116
15:24:23 <Marcis> Shon: Difficult to specify ...
15:24:42 <Marcis> Felix: Test Suite output won't be influenced
15:24:53 <Marcis> Felix: test suite removes empty spaces
15:25:06 <Marcis> Felix: not perfect, but catches most errors
15:25:42 <Marcis> Felix: In output we have a description where there is space/tab character
15:26:14 <Marcis> Shon: I'm working with test files, othis is how the issue got apparent
15:26:39 <Marcis> (not sure I got this right - there is someone breathing really loud - I barely hear Shon)
15:27:05 <Marcis> Shon: But not sure whether this is really a big issue
15:27:15 <Marcis> Shon/Felix: suggest to leave as is
15:27:37 <Marcis> Felix: We come back next week and close it next week
15:27:47 <fsasaki> topic: issues in note in 2.1.2 (no issue number yet)
15:27:57 <Marcis> Felix: By Shon
15:27:59 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0048.html
15:28:05 <fsasaki> s/Shon/Shaun/
15:28:38 <Marcis> Shaun: tried to give an example for a selector that would not work if you put it in XSLT
15:28:57 <Marcis> Shaun: Example is not a valid path as it is missing a leading slash
15:29:06 <Marcis> Shaun: example in ITS spec...
15:29:15 <fsasaki> now https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/117
15:29:31 <Marcis> Shaun: Seems to be ok if you cannot handle absolute paths then it is not conforming to the spec.
15:30:06 <Marcis> Felix: ITS 2.0 there was a change in late december - it is just a location path and not an abs. loc. path
15:30:19 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#d0e2063
15:30:19 <Marcis> Felix: It is also possible to use relative paths
15:30:33 <Marcis> Shaun: Language should be cleaned up in the example
15:30:59 <Marcis> Felix: Pandora box 6.1?
15:31:11 <fsasaki> section 1-2
15:31:18 <Marcis> Felix: Not 6.1, but 1-2
15:31:32 <Marcis> Felix: These are not normative, but have a lot of issues
15:31:54 <Marcis> Felix: We do not need to resolve this for the last call, but the sections will have to be updated
15:32:10 <Marcis> Felix: Proposes Shaun to rewrite the example
15:32:15 <Marcis> Shaun: Yes
15:32:23 <fsasaki> action: shaun to re-write example mentioned in issue-117
15:32:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-446 - Re-write example mentioned in issue-117 [on Shaun McCance - due 2013-02-18].
15:32:38 <fsasaki> topic: not an issue, but anyway: proposed wiki changes
15:32:45 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0028.html
15:32:48 <Marcis> Felix: Wiki changes, wants for people to be aware
15:33:00 <Marcis> Felix: Thx. to people who already made changes
15:33:08 <Marcis> Felix: Will make changes on Friday
15:33:13 <fsasaki> topic: xliff samples
15:33:26 <fsasaki> https://github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/tree/master/its2.0/xliffsamples
15:33:28 <Marcis> Felix: XLIFF samples, various people+Marcis asked
15:33:42 <Marcis> Felix: This is not part of conformance testing
15:33:58 <Marcis> Felix: People need this, but this is not for the stand. process
15:34:34 <Marcis> Dave: finding it useful
15:34:45 <Marcis> Dave: useful for use-cases for Rome
15:35:05 <Marcis> Dave: Giving us means to figure out the XLIFF mapping
15:35:20 <fsasaki> yves' mail on the mapping at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0046.html
15:35:23 <Marcis> Dave: Using for testing of mapping for provenance
15:35:39 <Marcis> Dave: Will put more examples later this week
15:36:10 <Marcis> Dave: Had a talk with Ankit/Phil to see whether XLIFF mapping for [..] could be included as well
15:36:37 <fsasaki> Marcis: thanks a lot, we were looking for such examples
15:36:47 <fsasaki> .. we are looking forward to see more, covering other data categories
15:36:57 <fsasaki> .. looked at the biiiig XLIFF file
15:37:14 <fsasaki> .. we are looking for particularily elements that cover data categories that we will implement
15:37:25 <fsasaki> .. terminology, elements within text, ...
15:38:08 <fsasaki> .. haven't had the change whether the examples cover everthing
15:38:18 <fsasaki> felix: do you need several data categories at the same time in one file?
15:38:30 <fsasaki> marcis: no, even if we have one data category per file that is enough
15:39:00 <fsasaki> dave: we are also looking into how to introduce tan and terminology into a use case
15:39:20 <fsasaki> .. we have taken content out of xliff, run it through enrycher and what the output would be
15:39:30 <fsasaki> .. not sure what the values would be, but we start with suggestions
15:39:39 <fsasaki> marcis: the more test files we have the better
15:39:44 <fsasaki> dave: esp. real life translated
15:40:34 <fsasaki> action: yves to make a batch transformation of the test suite to xliff
15:40:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-447 - Make a batch transformation of the test suite to xliff [on Yves Savourel - due 2013-02-18].
15:41:02 <fsasaki> topic: inline global rules in xhtml and other xhtml stuff
15:41:19 <fsasaki> covered by action to jirka, see above
15:41:26 <Marcis> Felix: already gave action item to Jurka
15:41:29 <fsasaki> topic: disambiguation vs. term - update on issue-68
15:42:03 <Marcis> Felix: As said before call, me, Tadej, Marcis, and Christian took this off the call
15:42:25 <Marcis> Felix: Outcome: some issues are resolved
15:42:33 <Marcis> Felix: Differences came clear
15:42:50 <Marcis> Felix: confidence of term relates to term=yes/no, but not the ref.
15:43:04 <Marcis> Felix: For Disambig. it relates to the complete annotation
15:43:31 <Marcis> Felix: Maybe after Wednesday we will come up with ways how to make differences clearer
15:43:43 <Marcis> Felix: does not want this to be secret discussion
15:43:57 <Marcis> Felix: Offline calls meant just to move discussion forward
15:44:02 <Marcis> Felix: anyone can join
15:44:27 <Marcis> Dave: to clarify - the value for terminology confidence relates to term=yes/no?
15:44:30 <Marcis> Felix: Yes
15:44:41 <Marcis> Felix: this is why here merging does not fit
15:45:12 <Marcis> Felix: A guess for the outcome - we probably won't merge, but will have progress on describing relations and giving guidance on usefulness
15:45:42 <fsasaki> tadej: one solution would be to have two different confidence values, one for term flag, one for identifier
15:45:57 <fsasaki> .. but there is a lot of orthnogality here, no clean way to merge things
15:46:18 <fsasaki> ..we also decided to call this "text analyis", it has a "ta" prefix instead of a "disambig" prefix
15:46:28 <fsasaki> marcis: nothing to add
15:46:40 <fsasaki> topic: Other issues that need discussion to close "last call" period
15:46:58 <Marcis> Felix: Some new small issues, the larger on term+disambig
15:47:06 <fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open
15:47:09 <Marcis> Felix: Have we forgotten anything?
15:47:24 <Marcis> Felix: knows person who has the most actions - he is called Felix
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15:47:41 <Marcis> I hear only noise
15:48:13 <Marcis> Dave: said last week that there were people for shephearding
15:48:47 <Marcis> Dave: If they could send out a message to commenters leaving one week to reply whether answers are satisfactory?!
15:48:57 <Marcis> Felix: Agrees
15:49:09 <fsasaki> topic: Rome preparation heads up
15:49:39 <Marcis> Felix: Rome workshop ahead, call next week, Feb. 20
15:49:56 <Marcis> Felix: Asked implementers to prepare poster drafts
15:50:02 <Marcis> Felix: Will be public
15:50:19 <fsasaki> topic: aob
15:50:20 <Marcis> Felix: Any other questions?
15:50:27 <Marcis> Felix: thanks a lot
15:50:45 <Marcis> Felix: good that we have run out of discussion topics
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15:51:02 <Marcis> Felix: We could have also shorter calls in the future
15:51:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
16:27:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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