IRC log of dap on 2013-02-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:05:14 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
14:05:16 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:05:16 [Zakim]
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14:05:18 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
14:05:18 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 55 minutes
14:05:19 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
14:05:19 [trackbot]
Date: 06 February 2013
14:05:36 [fjh]
14:05:51 [fjh]
fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279 ; agenda
14:06:16 [fjh]
Regrets+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:06:39 [fjh]
Chair: Frederick_Hirsch
14:06:42 [fjh]
Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
14:09:40 [fjh]
zakim, code?
14:09:41 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, fjh
14:40:15 [lgombos]
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UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
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+ +1.781.328.aaaa
15:01:21 [Cathy]
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15:01:22 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
15:01:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.781.328.aaaa
15:01:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dtran, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, dom, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir
15:01:27 [Zakim]
15:01:34 [AnssiK]
zakim, ??P31 is me
15:01:34 [Zakim]
+AnssiK; got it
15:01:35 [Zakim]
15:01:37 [fjh]
zakim, aaaa is me
15:01:37 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
15:01:43 [AnssiK]
Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
15:01:56 [Claes]
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15:01:59 [richt]
Present+ Rich_Tibbett
15:02:03 [gmandyam]
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15:02:44 [Zakim]
15:03:07 [dtran]
Present+ Dzung_Tran
15:03:08 [fjh]
Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements
15:03:11 [Claes]
Present+ Claes
15:03:44 [Zakim]
15:03:50 [Cathy]
Present+ Cathy_Chan
15:04:58 [fjh]
ScribeNick: fjh
15:05:10 [fjh]
Media TF charter updated:
15:05:23 [fjh]
MediaStream Recording FPWD published
15:05:40 [fjh]
Topic: Minutes approval
15:05:49 [fjh]
15:05:57 [fjh]
RESOLUTION: Draft minutes from 23 January 2013 are approved.
15:06:20 [fjh]
Topic: F2F Planning & Roadmap
15:06:20 [fjh]
TPAC 2013: Nov 18-22 in Shenzhen -
15:06:45 [Zakim]
15:07:17 [Zakim]
15:08:43 [lgombos]
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15:08:44 [bryan]
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15:09:02 [Clarke]
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15:09:27 [Zakim]
15:09:51 [Zakim]
15:09:53 [Zakim]
15:10:45 [Zakim]
15:11:59 [fjh]
fjh: not planning on having F2F in April and not in May either, possible hosting in Germany in June
15:12:38 [gmandyam]
Scribenick: gmandyam
15:12:52 [fjh]
... but need to first make sure we have work that justifies having F2F. As far as I can tell, Web Intents/Web Activities would be main driver
15:13:07 [fjh]
fjh: not sure we need it for Network Discovery
15:13:07 [fjh]
richt: agree, list is working fine
15:13:21 [fjh]
fjh: have been talking with Wonsuk about overlap of SysApps and DAP, need to make sure consistent
15:13:42 [fjh]
... e.g. common contacts data format, and consistency of APIs where possible
15:14:15 [gmandyam]
Contact and Calendar API's must be progressed beyond their current state before DAP can credibly liase with SysApps WG regarding commonalizing specs.
15:14:16 [fjh]
fjh: so F2F planning is not clear, could meet in June, or Sept, if in Sept maybe not at TPAC etc
15:14:23 [fjh]
please share thoughts with me if you have suggestions
15:14:40 [gmandyam]
fjh - Moving on to Network Svc. Discovery
15:15:00 [gmandyam]
fjh - New draft out that incorporates all of the comments. Thanks to Cathy for summarizing the issues.
15:15:11 [fjh]
Topic: Network Service DIscovery
15:15:27 [fjh]
fjh: New draft out that incorporates all of the comments. Thanks to Cathy for summarizing the issues.
15:15:37 [fjh]
s/member:fjh - Moving on to Network Svc. Discovery//
15:15:44 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:15:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fjh
15:16:04 [gmandyam]
richt: A lot of feature requests in Cathy's summary. Good rationale for the requested features. We are tending for simplicity and minimum viable product.
15:16:14 [fjh]
s/fjh - Moving on to Network Svc. Discovery//
15:16:23 [fjh]
s/fjh - New draft out that incorporates all of the comments. Thanks to Cathy for summarizing the issues.//
15:16:35 [fjh]
s|s/member:fjh - Moving on to Network Svc. Discovery//||
15:16:40 [gmandyam]
richt: Managing uPnP devices is not a key use case for us. We are focused on bi-directional communication. Focus on uPnP distracts from other protocols.
15:16:55 [gmandyam]
richt: This work is set up for longevity.
15:17:25 [gmandyam]
richt: We may have to push requested features out of implementation.
15:18:25 [gmandyam]
fjh: The current spec has cleaned up uPnP items. What is left are feature requests.
15:19:19 [gmandyam]
Cathy: Need to review latest changes. May have additional comments. Will defer to group on feature requests. Agree with Rich that too much focus on uPnP may be a distraction.
15:19:28 [fjh]
ACTION: fjh to review SysApps and DAP overlap and discuss with SysApps chairs
15:19:28 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-612 - Review SysApps and DAP overlap and discuss with SysApps chairs [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-02-13].
15:20:47 [gmandyam]
richt: Key barrier to implementation is user experience (for local networking). We should give some example user stories. Ultimate objective is to remove dialog boxes, by allowing sharing/discovery to happen by building on top of normal networking calls.
15:20:51 [bryan]
+1 to that idea to use CORS
15:21:27 [fjh]
s/calls/calls, using CORS/
15:21:51 [fjh]
fjh: richt, can you please send note to list on this
15:21:51 [fjh]
15:22:44 [gmandyam]
bryan: Calls to CORS-enabled servers would have trusted devices. Device trust model is out-of-scope.
15:23:18 [gmandyam]
bryan: This spec will enable the smart network environment.
15:24:03 [gmandyam]
richt: CORS doesn't have semantics yet for what is needed.
15:24:38 [richt]
CORS lacks semantics to allow me to share my service with only 'localhost' or 'local network' for example. We may want to expand the semantics available to CORS.
15:24:38 [fjh]
Topic: Privacy
15:24:51 [gmandyam]
fjh: Privacy topic to be added to agenda.
15:25:12 [richt]
This will allow us to build a system that does not rely on prompting but enforces the CORS from other devices in the current network.
15:25:40 [gmandyam]
fjh: Attended privacy IG. They reviewed Ambient Light & Prox. fjh on the hook to summarize conclusions and provide guidelines for DAP on privacy.
15:25:41 [bryan]
Leaving management of the set of allowed origins that CORS-enabled servers unspecified for now does not mean that this will go undone; other devices can offer management interfaces through which users configure the trusted origins. Having this API in DAP may drive further work on permissions managent for locally-network devices.
15:25:51 [fjh]
Topic: OMA Liaison, Device Apps Network Efficiency (DANE)
15:26:00 [fjh]
15:26:40 [gmandyam]
fjh: OMA DANE work does not have significant overlap with DAP. It is closer to SysApps WG, with policy and security work.
15:28:13 [gmandyam]
bryan: My involvement in OMA is mainly at board level. Didn't see the liason statement that went out. There has been discussion on API work.
15:28:29 [fjh]
bryan: network information might be related
15:28:50 [gmandyam]
bryan: DANE is also looking a device bus with bi-directional communication.
15:29:00 [dcheng3]
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15:29:19 [fjh]
metering, bandwidth discussions in DAP are possibly
15:29:54 [gmandyam]
bryan: Network Info spec could feed into OMA. I've been telling OMA to use consistent techniques, which allows to expose OMA enablers as Web API's.
15:30:03 [fjh]
ACTION: fjh to draft proposed OMA liaison response
15:30:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-613 - Draft proposed OMA liaison response [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-02-13].
15:30:03 [gmandyam]
fjh: Will draft a response; Bryan to add notes.
15:30:20 [fjh]
Topic: Battery API Testing
15:30:30 [fjh]
15:30:54 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
15:30:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, AnssiK, richt, Claes, Cathy, Clarke, Bryan_Sullivan
15:30:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dcheng3, Clarke, bryan, lgombos, gmandyam, Claes, dtran, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, dom, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir
15:30:57 [Zakim]
15:31:23 [fjh]
gmandyam: shared slides regarding battery testing, also sent an email, to make sure issue is noted
15:32:22 [fjh]
... see slide 2, would like battery API
15:32:47 [fjh]
... would like to be able to use battery status to affect networking frequency etc
15:33:31 [fjh]
... described results at web performance workshop, goal to extend battery life when networking
15:33:47 [fjh]
... slide 3, believe we need to test battery API under stress (stress test)
15:34:22 [fjh]
... tried to match battery API with native meter, on PC did not see match under networking
15:34:45 [fjh]
... see slide 4
15:34:59 [fjh]
... used XAMPP, Apache wrapper
15:35:12 [fjh]
(see slides)
15:36:18 [dom]
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15:37:04 [fjh]
... not claiming (yet) that this is a bug in firefox, but suggest we need a test for this sort of load test
15:37:55 [fjh]
... slide 5 gives some suggestions for next steps
15:38:47 [fjh]
... conclusions - 1 stress test and see if battery API matches system battery meter
15:39:02 [fjh]
... 2. share code for this
15:39:26 [AnssiK]
15:39:55 [fjh]
ack AnssiK
15:40:34 [fjh]
anssik: current test suite exercises CPU to do prime calculations, thus a form of stress test, did not notice issues Giri has seen
15:40:48 [fjh]
... seem to be implementation bugs, suggest Giri report bug to Mozilla
15:41:18 [lgombos_]
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15:41:22 [fjh]
... happy to merge additional stress tests if you contribute them
15:42:08 [fjh]
gmandyam: not enough to detect power level change, but need to check against reference
15:42:11 [Zakim]
15:42:39 [fjh]
anssiK: each implementation will have own glue code, sometimes close to real time, sometimes not
15:43:02 [fjh]
... the version you are using might not have frequent updates
15:43:12 [fjh]
fjh: agree that Giri you may want to provide Mozilla test case and bug report
15:43:23 [fjh]
gmanyam: ok, I'll submit a bug report
15:43:34 [fjh]
15:45:14 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
15:45:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, AnssiK, richt, Claes, Cathy, Clarke, Bryan_Sullivan, dcheng3, lgombos
15:45:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see lgombos_, dom, dcheng3, Clarke, bryan, gmandyam, Claes, dtran, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir
15:46:35 [fjh]
Topic: Proximity and Ambient Light LC
15:46:46 [fjh]
15:46:51 [AnssiK]
15:46:58 [fjh]
ack AnssiK
15:47:02 [fjh]
fjh: update on status?
15:47:04 [Zakim]
15:47:17 [fjh]
anssik: believe have handled at all last call comment
15:47:19 [gmandyam]
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15:47:38 [fjh]
... design change will not be included
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15:48:02 [fjh]
fjh: is window stuff all resolved
15:48:28 [fjh]
anssiK: yes, anne thought idea was interesting, doug suggesting keeping spec as it is
15:48:53 [fjh]
fjh: can you please send out message noting that not making a change here
15:49:04 [fjh]
anssik: will reply
15:49:41 [fjh]
Topic: Editorial Best Practices
15:50:16 [fjh]
Change in progress to offer more general ReSpec support
15:50:37 [fjh]
fjh: much thanks to Anssi for ReSpec contributions, some documentation might help
15:51:12 [fjh]
Topic: Network Information API
15:51:21 [fjh]
15:51:44 [lgombos_]
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15:52:02 [fjh]
fjh: we need to get this list discussion to reach a conclusion
15:52:13 [fjh]
bryan: my response to OMA may help with this
15:52:20 [fjh]
lgombos: have sent some ideas as well
15:53:02 [fjh]
... still have wide disagreements on list, to progress spec, need to set a deadline
15:53:06 [fjh]
fjh: +1 we need to progress this
15:53:29 [fjh]
fjh: suggest we make a decision in two weeks
15:53:43 [fjh]
Topic: Web Intents and Web Activities
15:53:52 [fjh]
Web Intents removal from WebKit,
15:54:10 [fjh]
fjh: discussion, not decision?
15:54:46 [fjh]
lgombos: could keep code in webkit, but disable, will ask question on webkit mailing list, what we might expect to have to replace it, would prefer to disable and not remove it
15:55:26 [fjh]
lgombos: people prefer to remove dead code, but in this case it is not impacting other feature development
15:56:12 [fjh]
anssik: was the person suggesting removal the original author
15:56:17 [fjh]
lgombos: not sure
15:56:45 [fjh]
Web Activities update,
15:57:22 [richt]
removal of web intents reinforces the fact the UI considerations for prompting are hard. I wonder if Web Activities addresses this better.
15:57:34 [fjh]
lgombos: probably did not want this shipping in production code. Is RIM/Blackberry shipping their implementation?
15:58:17 [fjh]
fjh: will check with Josh who is here
15:59:10 [fjh]
fjh: might be helpful to check with Mounir
15:59:43 [Zakim]
16:00:40 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
16:00:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, AnssiK, richt, Claes, Cathy, Bryan_Sullivan, dcheng3
16:00:44 [Zakim]
On IRC I see lgombos_, dom, dcheng3, bryan, Claes, dtran, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir
16:00:54 [Zakim]
16:02:09 [Zakim]
16:02:44 [Zakim]
16:04:44 [Zakim]
16:05:15 [Zakim]
16:05:23 [Zakim]
16:05:24 [Zakim]
16:05:26 [Zakim]
16:05:39 [Zakim]
16:05:41 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
16:05:41 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.781.328.aaaa, AnssiK, fjh, richt, Claes, Cathy, bryan, Clarke, Bryan_Sullivan, dcheng3, lgombos
16:07:33 [fjh]
Topic: Action Items
16:07:47 [fjh]
16:07:47 [trackbot]
ACTION-474 -- Adrian Bateman to make a proposal for Network Information API -- due 2012-10-15 -- OPEN
16:07:47 [trackbot]
16:07:59 [fjh]
16:07:59 [trackbot]
ACTION-565 -- Josh Soref to propose text for HTML Media Capture to allow for alternative capture device if specified device not available -- due 2012-08-22 -- OPEN
16:07:59 [trackbot]
16:08:10 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
16:08:10 [Zakim]
apparently UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended, fjh
16:08:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see lgombos_, dcheng3, bryan, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir
16:08:32 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:08:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fjh
16:09:53 [dom]
dom has joined #dap
16:11:00 [wonsuk_]
wonsuk_ has joined #dap
16:13:51 [wonsuk_]
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16:14:52 [dom]
Zakim, who's on the call?
16:14:52 [Zakim]
apparently UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended, dom
16:14:53 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dom, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir
16:15:05 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:15:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate dom
16:15:25 [fjh]
16:15:25 [trackbot]
ACTION-592 -- Niklas Widell to provide draft sensors landscape document -- due 2012-11-09 -- OPEN
16:15:25 [trackbot]
16:15:45 [fjh]
close ACTION-611
16:15:45 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-611 Look at automating generation of static docs out of respecs docs.
16:15:57 [fjh]
Topic: Other Business
16:16:34 [fjh]
No call next week, next call 20 Feb
16:17:04 [fjh]
RESOLUTION: Cancel call 17 April
16:17:49 [fjh]
Bryan sent email re OMA liaison
16:17:54 [fjh]
Topic: Adjourn
16:17:56 [fjh]
16:18:00 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:18:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fjh
16:18:27 [lgombos]
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16:18:37 [fjh]
16:19:03 [fjh]
s|fjh - Moving on to Network Svc. Discovery||
16:19:14 [fjh]
s|fjh - New draft out that incorporates all of the comments. Thanks to Cathy for summarizing the issues.||
16:19:18 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:19:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fjh
16:22:20 [lgombos]
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16:25:30 [fjh]
Present+ Laszlo_Gombos, Diana_Cheng, Giri_Mandyam
16:26:57 [lgombos_]
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16:28:48 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:28:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fjh
16:29:23 [fjh]
Present+ Claes_Nilsson
16:29:28 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:29:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fjh
16:31:40 [fjh]
Present+ Clarke_Stevens
16:31:47 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:31:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fjh
16:55:26 [fjh]
fjh has joined #dap
17:18:32 [lgombos_]
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