14:05:14 RRSAgent has joined #dap 14:05:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/06-dap-irc 14:05:16 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:05:16 Zakim has joined #dap 14:05:18 Zakim, this will be DAP 14:05:18 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 55 minutes 14:05:19 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 14:05:19 Date: 06 February 2013 14:05:36 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0008.html 14:05:51 fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279 ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0008.html 14:06:16 Regrets+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux 14:06:39 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 14:06:42 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 14:09:40 zakim, code? 14:09:41 the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh 14:40:15 lgombos has joined #dap 15:00:54 AnssiK has joined #dap 15:01:02 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 15:01:09 + +1.781.328.aaaa 15:01:21 Cathy has joined #dap 15:01:21 dtran has joined #dap 15:01:22 zakim, who is here? 15:01:22 On the phone I see +1.781.328.aaaa 15:01:24 On IRC I see dtran, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, dom, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir 15:01:27 +??P31 15:01:34 zakim, ??P31 is me 15:01:34 +AnssiK; got it 15:01:35 +[IPcaller] 15:01:37 zakim, aaaa is me 15:01:37 +fjh; got it 15:01:43 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 15:01:56 Claes has joined #dap 15:01:59 Present+ Rich_Tibbett 15:02:03 gmandyam has joined #dap 15:02:44 +Claes 15:03:07 Present+ Dzung_Tran 15:03:08 Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements 15:03:11 Present+ Claes 15:03:44 +Cathy 15:03:50 Present+ Cathy_Chan 15:04:58 ScribeNick: fjh 15:05:10 Media TF charter updated: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0005.html 15:05:23 MediaStream Recording FPWD published http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-mediastream-recording-20130205/ 15:05:40 Topic: Minutes approval 15:05:49 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jan/att-0087/minutes-2013-01-23.html 15:05:57 RESOLUTION: Draft minutes from 23 January 2013 are approved. 15:06:20 Topic: F2F Planning & Roadmap 15:06:20 TPAC 2013: Nov 18-22 in Shenzhen - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jan/0095.html 15:06:45 +bryan 15:07:17 -bryan 15:08:43 lgombos has joined #dap 15:08:44 bryan has joined #dap 15:09:02 Clarke has joined #dap 15:09:27 +bryan 15:09:51 +Clarke 15:09:53 -bryan 15:10:45 +Bryan_Sullivan 15:11:59 fjh: not planning on having F2F in April and not in May either, possible hosting in Germany in June 15:12:38 Scribenick: gmandyam 15:12:52 ... but need to first make sure we have work that justifies having F2F. As far as I can tell, Web Intents/Web Activities would be main driver 15:13:07 fjh: not sure we need it for Network Discovery 15:13:07 richt: agree, list is working fine 15:13:21 fjh: have been talking with Wonsuk about overlap of SysApps and DAP, need to make sure consistent 15:13:42 ... e.g. common contacts data format, and consistency of APIs where possible 15:14:15 Contact and Calendar API's must be progressed beyond their current state before DAP can credibly liase with SysApps WG regarding commonalizing specs. 15:14:16 fjh: so F2F planning is not clear, could meet in June, or Sept, if in Sept maybe not at TPAC etc 15:14:23 please share thoughts with me if you have suggestions 15:14:40 fjh - Moving on to Network Svc. Discovery 15:15:00 fjh - New draft out that incorporates all of the comments. Thanks to Cathy for summarizing the issues. 15:15:11 Topic: Network Service DIscovery 15:15:27 fjh: New draft out that incorporates all of the comments. Thanks to Cathy for summarizing the issues. 15:15:37 s/member:fjh - Moving on to Network Svc. Discovery// 15:15:44 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:15:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/06-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:16:04 richt: A lot of feature requests in Cathy's summary. Good rationale for the requested features. We are tending for simplicity and minimum viable product. 15:16:14 s/fjh - Moving on to Network Svc. Discovery// 15:16:23 s/fjh - New draft out that incorporates all of the comments. Thanks to Cathy for summarizing the issues.// 15:16:35 s|s/member:fjh - Moving on to Network Svc. Discovery//|| 15:16:40 richt: Managing uPnP devices is not a key use case for us. We are focused on bi-directional communication. Focus on uPnP distracts from other protocols. 15:16:55 richt: This work is set up for longevity. 15:17:25 richt: We may have to push requested features out of implementation. 15:18:25 fjh: The current spec has cleaned up uPnP items. What is left are feature requests. 15:19:19 Cathy: Need to review latest changes. May have additional comments. Will defer to group on feature requests. Agree with Rich that too much focus on uPnP may be a distraction. 15:19:28 ACTION: fjh to review SysApps and DAP overlap and discuss with SysApps chairs 15:19:28 Created ACTION-612 - Review SysApps and DAP overlap and discuss with SysApps chairs [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-02-13]. 15:20:47 richt: Key barrier to implementation is user experience (for local networking). We should give some example user stories. Ultimate objective is to remove dialog boxes, by allowing sharing/discovery to happen by building on top of normal networking calls. 15:20:51 +1 to that idea to use CORS 15:21:27 s/calls/calls, using CORS/ 15:21:51 fjh: richt, can you please send note to list on this 15:21:51 q? 15:22:44 bryan: Calls to CORS-enabled servers would have trusted devices. Device trust model is out-of-scope. 15:23:18 bryan: This spec will enable the smart network environment. 15:24:03 richt: CORS doesn't have semantics yet for what is needed. 15:24:38 CORS lacks semantics to allow me to share my service with only 'localhost' or 'local network' for example. We may want to expand the semantics available to CORS. 15:24:38 Topic: Privacy 15:24:51 fjh: Privacy topic to be added to agenda. 15:25:12 This will allow us to build a system that does not rely on prompting but enforces the CORS from other devices in the current network. 15:25:40 fjh: Attended privacy IG. They reviewed Ambient Light & Prox. fjh on the hook to summarize conclusions and provide guidelines for DAP on privacy. 15:25:41 Leaving management of the set of allowed origins that CORS-enabled servers unspecified for now does not mean that this will go undone; other devices can offer management interfaces through which users configure the trusted origins. Having this API in DAP may drive further work on permissions managent for locally-network devices. 15:25:51 Topic: OMA Liaison, Device Apps Network Efficiency (DANE) 15:26:00 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jan/0075.html 15:26:40 fjh: OMA DANE work does not have significant overlap with DAP. It is closer to SysApps WG, with policy and security work. 15:28:13 bryan: My involvement in OMA is mainly at board level. Didn't see the liason statement that went out. There has been discussion on API work. 15:28:29 bryan: network information might be related 15:28:50 bryan: DANE is also looking a device bus with bi-directional communication. 15:29:00 dcheng3 has joined #dap 15:29:19 metering, bandwidth discussions in DAP are possibly 15:29:54 bryan: Network Info spec could feed into OMA. I've been telling OMA to use consistent techniques, which allows to expose OMA enablers as Web API's. 15:30:03 ACTION: fjh to draft proposed OMA liaison response 15:30:03 Created ACTION-613 - Draft proposed OMA liaison response [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-02-13]. 15:30:03 fjh: Will draft a response; Bryan to add notes. 15:30:20 Topic: Battery API Testing 15:30:30 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0002.html 15:30:54 zakim, who is here? 15:30:54 On the phone I see fjh, AnssiK, richt, Claes, Cathy, Clarke, Bryan_Sullivan 15:30:57 On IRC I see dcheng3, Clarke, bryan, lgombos, gmandyam, Claes, dtran, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, dom, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir 15:30:57 +dcheng3 15:31:23 gmandyam: shared slides regarding battery testing, also sent an email, to make sure issue is noted 15:32:22 ... see slide 2, would like battery API 15:32:47 ... would like to be able to use battery status to affect networking frequency etc 15:33:31 ... described results at web performance workshop, goal to extend battery life when networking 15:33:47 ... slide 3, believe we need to test battery API under stress (stress test) 15:34:22 ... tried to match battery API with native meter, on PC did not see match under networking 15:34:45 ... see slide 4 15:34:59 ... used XAMPP, Apache wrapper 15:35:12 (see slides) 15:36:18 dom has joined #dap 15:37:04 ... not claiming (yet) that this is a bug in firefox, but suggest we need a test for this sort of load test 15:37:55 ... slide 5 gives some suggestions for next steps 15:38:47 ... conclusions - 1 stress test and see if battery API matches system battery meter 15:39:02 ... 2. share code for this 15:39:26 q+ 15:39:55 ack AnssiK 15:40:34 anssik: current test suite exercises CPU to do prime calculations, thus a form of stress test, did not notice issues Giri has seen 15:40:48 ... seem to be implementation bugs, suggest Giri report bug to Mozilla 15:41:18 lgombos_ has joined #dap 15:41:22 ... happy to merge additional stress tests if you contribute them 15:42:08 gmandyam: not enough to detect power level change, but need to check against reference 15:42:11 +lgombos 15:42:39 anssiK: each implementation will have own glue code, sometimes close to real time, sometimes not 15:43:02 ... the version you are using might not have frequent updates 15:43:12 fjh: agree that Giri you may want to provide Mozilla test case and bug report 15:43:23 gmanyam: ok, I'll submit a bug report 15:43:34 s/gmanyam/gmandyam/ 15:45:14 zakim, who is here? 15:45:14 On the phone I see fjh, AnssiK, richt, Claes, Cathy, Clarke, Bryan_Sullivan, dcheng3, lgombos 15:45:16 On IRC I see lgombos_, dom, dcheng3, Clarke, bryan, gmandyam, Claes, dtran, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir 15:46:35 Topic: Proximity and Ambient Light LC 15:46:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jan/0094.html 15:46:51 q+ 15:46:58 ack AnssiK 15:47:02 fjh: update on status? 15:47:04 -lgombos 15:47:17 anssik: believe have handled at all last call comment 15:47:19 gmandyam has joined #dap 15:47:24 lgombos has joined #dap 15:47:38 ... design change will not be included 15:47:48 lgombos has joined #dap 15:48:02 fjh: is window stuff all resolved 15:48:28 anssiK: yes, anne thought idea was interesting, doug suggesting keeping spec as it is 15:48:53 fjh: can you please send out message noting that not making a change here 15:49:04 anssik: will reply 15:49:41 Topic: Editorial Best Practices 15:50:16 Change in progress to offer more general ReSpec support 15:50:37 fjh: much thanks to Anssi for ReSpec contributions, some documentation might help 15:51:12 Topic: Network Information API 15:51:21 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/raw-file/default/network-api/Overview.html 15:51:44 lgombos_ has joined #dap 15:52:02 fjh: we need to get this list discussion to reach a conclusion 15:52:13 bryan: my response to OMA may help with this 15:52:20 lgombos: have sent some ideas as well 15:53:02 ... still have wide disagreements on list, to progress spec, need to set a deadline 15:53:06 fjh: +1 we need to progress this 15:53:29 fjh: suggest we make a decision in two weeks 15:53:43 Topic: Web Intents and Web Activities 15:53:52 Web Intents removal from WebKit, https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2013-January/023537.html 15:54:10 fjh: discussion, not decision? 15:54:46 lgombos: could keep code in webkit, but disable, will ask question on webkit mailing list, what we might expect to have to replace it, would prefer to disable and not remove it 15:55:26 lgombos: people prefer to remove dead code, but in this case it is not impacting other feature development 15:56:12 anssik: was the person suggesting removal the original author 15:56:17 lgombos: not sure 15:56:45 Web Activities update, https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI/WebActivities 15:57:22 removal of web intents reinforces the fact the UI considerations for prompting are hard. I wonder if Web Activities addresses this better. 15:57:34 lgombos: probably did not want this shipping in production code. Is RIM/Blackberry shipping their implementation? 15:58:17 fjh: will check with Josh who is here 15:59:10 fjh: might be helpful to check with Mounir 15:59:43 -Clarke 16:00:40 zakim, who is here? 16:00:41 On the phone I see fjh, AnssiK, richt, Claes, Cathy, Bryan_Sullivan, dcheng3 16:00:44 On IRC I see lgombos_, dom, dcheng3, bryan, Claes, dtran, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir 16:00:54 -dcheng3 16:02:09 -Claes 16:02:44 +dcheng3 16:04:44 -Cathy 16:05:15 -Bryan_Sullivan 16:05:23 -AnssiK 16:05:24 -richt 16:05:26 -fjh 16:05:39 -dcheng3 16:05:41 UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended 16:05:41 Attendees were +1.781.328.aaaa, AnssiK, fjh, richt, Claes, Cathy, bryan, Clarke, Bryan_Sullivan, dcheng3, lgombos 16:07:33 Topic: Action Items 16:07:47 ACTION-474? 16:07:47 ACTION-474 -- Adrian Bateman to make a proposal for Network Information API -- due 2012-10-15 -- OPEN 16:07:47 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/474 16:07:59 ACTION-565? 16:07:59 ACTION-565 -- Josh Soref to propose text for HTML Media Capture to allow for alternative capture device if specified device not available -- due 2012-08-22 -- OPEN 16:07:59 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/565 16:08:10 zakim, who is here? 16:08:10 apparently UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended, fjh 16:08:11 On IRC I see lgombos_, dcheng3, bryan, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir 16:08:32 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:08:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/06-dap-minutes.html fjh 16:09:53 dom has joined #dap 16:11:00 wonsuk_ has joined #dap 16:13:51 wonsuk_ has joined #dap 16:14:52 Zakim, who's on the call? 16:14:52 apparently UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended, dom 16:14:53 On IRC I see dom, Cathy, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir 16:15:05 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:15:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/06-dap-minutes.html dom 16:15:25 ACTION-592? 16:15:25 ACTION-592 -- Niklas Widell to provide draft sensors landscape document -- due 2012-11-09 -- OPEN 16:15:25 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/592 16:15:45 close ACTION-611 16:15:45 Closed ACTION-611 Look at automating generation of static docs out of respecs docs. 16:15:57 Topic: Other Business 16:16:34 No call next week, next call 20 Feb 16:17:04 RESOLUTION: Cancel call 17 April 16:17:49 Bryan sent email re OMA liaison http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Feb/0021.html 16:17:54 Topic: Adjourn 16:17:56 16:18:00 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:18:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/06-dap-minutes.html fjh 16:18:27 lgombos has joined #dap 16:18:37 s|s/member://|| 16:19:03 s|fjh - Moving on to Network Svc. Discovery|| 16:19:14 s|fjh - New draft out that incorporates all of the comments. Thanks to Cathy for summarizing the issues.|| 16:19:18 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:19:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/06-dap-minutes.html fjh 16:22:20 lgombos has joined #dap 16:25:30 Present+ Laszlo_Gombos, Diana_Cheng, Giri_Mandyam 16:26:57 lgombos_ has joined #dap 16:28:48 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:28:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/06-dap-minutes.html fjh 16:29:23 Present+ Claes_Nilsson 16:29:28 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:29:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/06-dap-minutes.html fjh 16:31:40 Present+ Clarke_Stevens 16:31:47 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:31:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/06-dap-minutes.html fjh 16:55:26 fjh has joined #dap 17:18:32 lgombos_ has joined #dap 18:17:28 Zakim has left #dap 18:38:12 dom has joined #dap