22:34:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
22:34:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/03-svg-irc
22:34:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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22:34:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
22:34:04 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
22:34:05 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
22:34:05 <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2013
22:34:14 <heycam> Meeting: SVG F2F Sydney 2013 Day 1
22:34:18 <heycam> Chair: Cameron
22:34:46 <nikos> nikos has joined #svg
22:44:13 <jun> jun has joined #svg
22:52:36 <shanestephens_> krit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machine
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23:02:57 <birtles> scribenick: birtles
23:05:14 <birtles> topic: SVG2 status
23:06:45 <birtles> heycam: I'd like to know what features we want to get in the spec soon if we publish soon
23:06:59 <birtles> ... and whether it's achievable to get done all the things we've signed up for
23:07:07 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Commitments
23:07:11 <birtles> ... there are still a few things in the requirements commitments page that are yet to be done
23:07:40 <stakagi> stakagi has joined #svg
23:07:44 <birtles> ... green ticks indicate that something has actually been added to the spec
23:07:48 <birtles> ... but I'm not sure it's quite up to date
23:08:01 <birtles> ... things which don't have anyone signed up for, perhaps we can assume they won't be in SVG2
23:08:14 <birtles> Cyril: can we quickly review them?
23:08:33 <birtles> heycam: yes, of course
23:11:17 <birtles> [1] Add a section to the Requirements document about general approaches including avoiding backwards compatible changes
23:11:30 <birtles> heycam: just busy work?
23:11:38 <birtles> Cyril: maybe add a section to changes section
23:12:06 <birtles> ... highlight which changes are backwards compatible and which are not
23:12:40 <birtles> ACTION: Cameron to add a sentence to the changes section regarding requirement one (about requirements)
23:12:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3411 - Add a sentence to the changes section regarding requirement one (about requirements) [on Cameron McCormack - due 2013-02-10].
23:12:46 <birtles> [2] Keep accessibility in mind when designing new features, and improve existing features where we can
23:12:51 <AlexD> AlexD has joined #svg
23:12:56 <birtles> all: ok, we will bear that in mind
23:13:00 <birtles> [3] Support the z-index
23:13:49 <birtles> heycam: it's assigned to Tab
23:14:03 <birtles> ... but jwatt has done some work on the spec text
23:14:06 <birtles> ... let's keep that
23:14:14 <birtles> [4] Ensure there is a way to avoid getting seams on adjacent edges of rendered elements
23:14:45 <birtles> birtles: is that shared path functionality?
23:14:50 <birtles> heycam: it's more than just that
23:15:30 <birtles> Cyril: it means you have to render at the same time
23:15:36 <birtles> AlexD: only if you have anti-aliasing
23:16:13 <birtles> Cyril: super path is one thing, but it doesn't help for, e.g., two rectangles
23:16:43 <birtles> ... it would be good clarify in SVG2
23:16:51 <birtles> heycam: unless someone volunteers to do it...
23:16:59 <birtles> krit: I think we should move fast on SVG2
23:17:04 <birtles> heycam: we should try to cut stuff
23:17:23 <birtles> heycam: no concrete plan, no owner...
23:17:52 <birtles> AlexD: it also puts requirements on graphics libraries
23:18:04 <birtles> ... it's a lot of work too
23:18:10 <birtles> ... it's too big for SVG2
23:18:22 <birtles> all: skip for SVG2
23:18:23 <birtles> [5] Support flattening vector graphics to image
23:19:13 <birtles> krit: last time Cyril proposed it, one of the issues was whether the flattened graphic is scalable or not
23:19:21 <birtles> Cyril: I think there are two possibilities
23:19:27 <birtles> ... the suggestion here is just keeping the pixels
23:19:33 <birtles> ... not the graphics tree
23:19:57 <birtles> krit: do we want a property that forces creation of a buffer in the GPU?
23:20:15 <birtles> ... I think this is needed--the property to indicate you want a new layer or not
23:21:01 <birtles> birtles: we have a discussion about this on the agenda: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Sydney_2013/Agenda/Performances_to_transition_in_zooming_and_panning
23:21:20 <birtles> heycam: ok, let's revisit it then
23:21:28 <birtles> [6] Clean up the namespace requirements
23:22:43 <birtles> it's about removing the need for namespace prefixes (xml:lang, xml:base, xml:id)
23:22:53 <birtles> heycam: I think we want to make those changes
23:23:40 <birtles> ACTION: Cyril to fix spec to remove need for xml namespace prefix
23:23:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3412 - Fix spec to remove need for xml namespace prefix [on Cyril Concolato - due 2013-02-10].
23:24:44 <heycam> ACTION-3412: See also http://www.w3.org/mid/50D5B322.70308@mcc.id.au
23:24:44 <trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-3412 Fix spec to remove need for xml namespace prefix.
23:24:51 <birtles> [7] Clean up the use element section (in terms of Shadow DOM).
23:25:23 <birtles> heycam: would be nice, what is status of shadow DOM spec?
23:25:29 <birtles> AlexD: seems to be getting stable
23:25:36 <shepazu> (I've done a little work on this one)
23:25:47 <birtles> heycam: we should try to address this soon so we can give feedback to shadow dom guys
23:26:11 <birtles> AlexD: it's used within WebKit
23:27:10 <shepazu> (I don't mind if someone else takes this action over)
23:27:15 <birtles> shanestephens_: the way use works and shadow dom works have some differences
23:27:23 <birtles> ... there may be issues there
23:27:24 <heycam> shepazu, do you have a link? or can you send it to the list?
23:27:48 <birtles> heycam: I think the instance tree (which half the implementations don't support) and the way inheritance works are two odd areas
23:28:07 <shepazu> heycam, no concrete work, just reading, talking with Dmitri, and understanding the model
23:28:29 <birtles> krit: I think we should delay this action since it is a bigger item
23:28:46 <birtles> birtles: what should we do about the instance tree since half the implementations don't support it?
23:28:54 <birtles> krit: can we mark it as likely to change?
23:29:25 <birtles> ... or drop it?
23:32:12 <birtles> heycam: it might still be good to look into this
23:32:21 <birtles> ... to see if we *could* do use in terms of the shadow dom
23:32:33 <birtles> ... in case we want to do that in a subsequent version
23:33:06 <birtles> ACTION: Cyril to investigate describing use in terms of the shadow DOM
23:33:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3413 - Investigate describing use in terms of the shadow DOM [on Cyril Concolato - due 2013-02-10].
23:33:24 <shepazu> (my discussions with Dmitri and Tab didn't reveal any show stoppers)
23:33:34 <heycam> shepazu, good to know
23:33:34 <birtles> heycam: but in terms of requirements for SVG2, we will say, "not for now"
23:33:40 <birtles> [8] Clean up the shadow tree section
23:34:21 <birtles> heycam: also, Cyril, please consider if we need the instance tree or not
23:35:48 <birtles> [9] Clean up the marker section
23:36:23 <birtles> heycam: mostly done except for knocking out parts of the stroke
23:36:28 <birtles> ... we'll talk about that later in the week
23:36:35 <birtles> ... the rest should be fine
23:36:50 <birtles> [10] Improve the DOM
23:36:59 <Cyril> http://www.w3.org/mid/4DC17F7F.6060708@w3.org
23:38:09 <birtles> Cyril: we have already fixed a number of small items like fixing lists
23:38:17 <birtles> ed: we also talked about pointing to the CSSOM
23:38:26 <birtles> ... e.g. for CSSLength, but it's not ready
23:39:39 <birtles> shanestephens_: CSSOM is progressing slowly
23:39:47 <birtles> heycam: we should have a separate discussion for this later
23:40:33 <birtles> (added to agenda)