14:58:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
14:58:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-tt-irc
14:58:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:58:24 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tt
14:58:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
14:58:26 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:27 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:58:27 <trackbot> Date: 31 January 2013
14:58:38 <mmartin3> Chair
14:58:40 <mmartin3> Sean Hayes
14:58:47 <mmartin3> scribenick: mmartin3
14:58:55 <mmartin3> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:58:55 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, mmartin3
14:58:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Sean, mmartin3, glenn, trackbot
15:00:34 <plh> plh has joined #tt
15:01:02 <mike> mike has joined #tt
15:01:06 <glenn> calling in now
15:01:54 <pal> pal has joined #tt
15:02:05 <mmartin3> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:05 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, mmartin3
15:02:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see pal, mike, plh, Zakim, RRSAgent, Sean, mmartin3, glenn, trackbot
15:02:27 <Andreas> Andreas has joined #tt
15:03:28 <mijordan> mijordan has joined #tt
15:03:50 <mmartin3> zakim, list attendees
15:03:50 <Zakim> sorry, mmartin3, I don't know what conference this is
15:04:01 <mmartin3> zakim, list attendees #tt
15:04:01 <Zakim> I don't understand 'list attendees #tt', mmartin3
15:04:05 <glenn> zakim, this is #ttwg
15:04:05 <Zakim> sorry, glenn, I do not see a conference named '#ttwg' in progress or scheduled at this time
15:04:12 <glenn> zakim, list conferences
15:04:13 <Zakim> I see BG_Oil Gas()10:00AM, XML_PMWG()10:00AM, SW_RDFa()10:00AM, WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM, T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM, SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM active
15:04:13 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are Team_Global(review)8:00AM, Team_(CRM)9:30AM, Math_IG()10:00AM, Team_Comm()10:00AM, DIG_weekly()10:00AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM,
15:04:13 <Zakim> ... MM_MMI(EMMA)10:00AM, I18N_MLW WG(LT)9:00AM, INC_(DecisionXG)10:00AM
15:04:22 <glenn> zakim, this is SYMM_TTWG
15:04:22 <Zakim> ok, glenn; that matches SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM
15:04:33 <mmartin3> TOPIC: Second Edition
15:04:59 <Zakim> +glenn
15:05:01 <mmartin3> plh: We are not allowed to go to LC given the structure; we can only go to PR.
15:05:19 <mmartin3> ..Requires revised charter if substantive changes.
15:05:28 <mmartin3> sean: We aren't making substantive changes.
15:06:04 <mmartin3> plh: Halt publication or publish as Working Draft.
15:06:20 <mmartin3> glenn: Edits aren't complete.
15:06:35 <mmartin3> plh: We agreed to do so Jan 24.
15:06:54 <mmartin3> ...Not First Public Working Draft but a Working Draft with no policy implications.
15:07:49 <mmartin3> No objections spoken on Working Draft publication of TTML 1.0 SE.
15:08:00 <mmartin3> glenn: To clarify, go to PR later.
15:08:09 <Zakim> +Thomas_Bause_Mason
15:08:24 <mmartin3> plh: Has a different patent policy for what is allowed in the charter.
15:08:44 <mmartin3> mike: May inject new IPR.
15:08:46 <tbause> tbause has joined #tt
15:10:01 <mmartin3> Resolved to proceed to publish TTML 1.0 Second Edition as Working Draft.
15:10:05 <mmartin3> TOPIC: SDP-US
15:10:25 <mmartin3> glenn: Are we ready to publish?
15:10:35 <mmartin3> sean: Talk about Issue-199 first.
15:10:47 <Zakim> -Plh
15:10:58 <mmartin3> TOPIC: Issues
15:11:01 <mmartin3> Issue-199?
15:11:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-199 -- timeExpression to video frame calculation is unclear in some cases -- raised
15:11:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/199
15:11:53 <mmartin3> sean: Describes issues on timeExpression with non-integer values.
15:12:12 <mmartin3> ...Frame rates. Little use thus far.
15:12:18 <mmartin3> ...Check however.
15:12:39 <mmartin3> ...Captions can drift up to 3.5 seconds per hour given algorithm used.
15:12:59 <pal_> pal_ has joined #tt
15:13:17 <mmartin3> ...DECE uses hh:mm:ss since you hit the play button.
15:13:39 <mmartin3> ...Other is take frame expression as an odometer and count, then map to dilated time in the video.
15:14:18 <mmartin3> ...SDP-US affected.
15:15:16 <mmartin3> ...Who has dones what?
15:16:14 <mmartin3> ...We've used second approach but haven't actively used.
15:16:33 <mmartin3> mjordan: We used Method #1.
15:17:11 <mmartin3> sean: Assume use SMPTE mechanism.
15:17:22 <mmartin3> ..As Adobe has.
15:18:49 <mmartin3> mike: Interpreted Method #1 - decoders and movie houses. Deluxe uses Method #2 but were doing with 2 studios (who use Method #1).
15:19:23 <mmartin3> ...We have to spell out semantics.
15:19:52 <mmartin3> s/...We/sean: We
15:20:26 <mmartin3> sean: We can move forward with SDP-US and if TTML 1.0 SE semantics change, there is not an issue.
15:20:51 <mmartin3> ...Any objections?
15:20:59 <mmartin3> No objections vetted.
15:22:19 <mmartin3> RESOLVED to accept Method#1 in TTML 1.0 SE which is aligned with DECE. This resolves any blocking change in SDP-US. Create action for Glenn to implement.
15:22:31 <mmartin3> This resolves Issue-199.
15:22:35 <mmartin3> No objections.
15:22:42 <mmartin3> Action Glenn to implement proposal Method#1 in TTML 1.0 SE and this resolves any blocking change in SDP-US.
15:22:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-140 - Implement proposal Method#1 in TTML 1.0 SE and this resolves any blocking change in SDP-US. [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-02-07].
15:23:09 <mmartin3> TOPIC: SDP-US
15:23:32 <mmartin3> sean: Resolution of Issue-199 unblocks SDP-US.
15:23:36 <mmartin3> Issue-198?
15:23:36 <trackbot> ISSUE-198 -- Add TTML in Title of SDP-US for Ready Recognition -- pending review
15:23:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/198
15:23:47 <mmartin3> sean: We can close this as implemented.
15:23:58 <mmartin3> .mmartin3: Yes.
15:24:11 <mmartin3> Close Issue-198
15:24:12 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-198 Add TTML in Title of SDP-US for Ready Recognition.
15:24:39 <mmartin3> Updated draft: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html
15:24:56 <mmartin3> sean: Advance to Working Group Note.
15:25:06 <mmartin3> RESOLVED to publish SDP-US as Working Group Note.
15:25:11 <mmartin3> No objections.
15:25:30 <mmartin3> sean: Will ask PLH to publish.
15:25:38 <mmartin3> Issue-172
15:25:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-172 -- REGION-OF(E) pseudo-code doesn't match prose -- open
15:25:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/172
15:27:05 <mmartin3> glenn: Questions raised by Sony - pseudo code or prose.
15:27:10 <mmartin3> ..Need to review.
15:27:50 <mmartin3> sean: May be related to our implementers in that the algorithm is different between the prose and the psudo-code.
15:28:11 <mmartin3> glenn: Prose is correct. Need to correct pseudo-code.
15:28:41 <mmartin3> ..Need to review both the prose and pseudo-code. Ensure prose is correct.
15:29:04 <mmartin3> sean: Similar to our issue so we should sort out Feb 7.
15:29:41 <mmartin3> glenn: Work on SE issue. Not present Feb 7 as in CSS meeting.
15:29:51 <mmartin3> ...Report Feb 14.
15:30:11 <mmartin3> sean: Step #3 isn't reflected in the pseudo code.
15:30:35 <mmartin3> glenn: Sony's questions are the same and that I observed in my review.
15:31:04 <mmartin3> New Issues
15:31:14 <mmartin3> sean: Aspect ratio
15:31:32 <mmartin3> s/New Issues/TOPIC: New Issues
15:32:39 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:34:50 <Zakim> +??P6
15:38:13 <mmartin3> mmartin3 has joined #tt
15:38:35 <mmartin3> test
15:38:43 <mmartin3> continue Aspect Ratio
15:38:48 <mmartin3> (Sorry lost my connection).
15:39:16 <mmartin3> glenn: SDP-US uses % with 4x3 and replay 16x9 resize and move.Correct?
15:39:19 <mmartin3> sean: Yes.
15:39:27 <mmartin3> Discussion on how SDP-US works.
15:39:47 <mmartin3> sean: SDP-US doesn't use pixels.
15:40:05 <mmartin3> glenn: Relative positioning .
15:40:30 <mmartin3> sean: Multiple 4x3 transformations to 16x9 on TV. How do we signal the content?
15:41:07 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:41:11 <Zakim> -??P6
15:41:18 <mmartin3> zakim, Microsoft is mmartin3
15:41:18 <Zakim> +mmartin3; got it
15:41:47 <mmartin3> pal: Could we use percentages with some caveats, it will work.
15:42:09 <mmartin3> sean: Issues on how you position regions in some cases.
15:42:54 <mmartin3> glenn: Need to scale and preserve aspect ratio.
15:43:50 <mmartin3> Discuss options.
15:44:54 <mmartin3> pal: Unambiguous association between root container and media object. You don't have pixels with its issues. TTML 1.0 SE doesn't articulate it. SDP-US doesn't resolve questions to us on the list.
15:45:21 <mmartin3> sean: SDP-US is a specific solution but doesn't appear to work for Netflix.
15:46:01 <mmartin3> ...Invite experts to attend and explain their issues. or to open an issue.
15:46:12 <mmartin3> s/issues./issues
15:46:23 <mmartin3> mike:
15:46:36 <mmartin3> We need to ask Netflix to articulate what they need.
15:47:17 <mmartin3> mmartin3: Netlfix have been following this work.
15:47:32 <mmartin3> sean: Ask them to attend and articulate their requirements.
15:47:46 <mmartin3> Issue-173?
15:47:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-173 -- presentation semantics of control characters and other unmapped characters -- open
15:47:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/173
15:47:54 <mmartin3> return to
15:48:00 <mmartin3> TOPIC:Issues
15:48:03 <mmartin3> Issue-173?
15:48:03 <trackbot> ISSUE-173 -- presentation semantics of control characters and other unmapped characters -- open
15:48:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/173
15:48:48 <mmartin3> glenn: No progress on SE issues.
15:48:50 <mmartin3> Defer others.
15:49:07 <mmartin3> sean: Progress on SE by 2 weeks.
15:49:23 <mmartin3> glenn: Will try to work on.
15:49:28 <mmartin3> sean: Behind on timeline on SE.
15:50:27 <mmartin3> glenn: Most items are straightforward. Need to think about timing semantics and regions.
15:51:16 <mmartin3> ...Issue-175 Someone could help step in as editor.
15:51:48 <mmartin3> sean: Call
15:51:58 <mmartin3> on Feb 7 and make a decision if we need more editors.
15:52:20 <mmartin3> sean: No other items today. No other business identified when asked.
15:52:23 <mmartin3> ...Adjourned.
15:52:27 <Zakim> -Andreas
15:52:28 <Zakim> -Thomas_Bause_Mason
15:52:28 <Zakim> -glenn
15:52:30 <Zakim> -sean
15:52:31 <Zakim> -pal
15:52:31 <Zakim> - +1.617.347.aaaa
15:52:32 <mmartin3> zakim, list attendees
15:52:32 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been sean, mike, Plh, pal, Andreas, +1.617.347.aaaa, glenn, Thomas_Bause_Mason, mmartin3
15:52:32 <Zakim> -mike
15:52:40 <mmartin3> trackbot, end meeting
15:52:40 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:52:40 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been sean, mike, Plh, pal, Andreas, +1.617.347.aaaa, glenn, Thomas_Bause_Mason, mmartin3
15:52:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:52:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-tt-minutes.html trackbot
15:52:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:52:49 <RRSAgent> I see no action items