IRC log of i18n on 2013-01-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:54:03 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-irc
15:54:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #i18n
15:54:21 [aphillip]
trackbot, prepare teleconference
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RRSAgent, make logs world
15:54:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 4186
15:54:25 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
15:54:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
15:54:26 [trackbot]
Date: 31 January 2013
15:54:51 [aphillip]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Jan/0081.html
15:55:13 [aphillip]
Chair: Addison Phillips
15:55:13 [aphillip]
ScribeNick: aphillip
15:55:13 [aphillip]
Scribe: Addison Phillips
15:55:26 [aphillip]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:55:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:55:44 [aphillip]
rrsagent, set logs world
15:59:57 [Zakim]
I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
15:59:58 [fsasaki]
fsasaki has joined #i18n
16:00:07 [Zakim]
+aphillip
16:00:39 [Zakim]
+??P20
16:00:40 [aphillip]
Regrets: Mati
16:04:11 [Zakim]
+ +1.805.302.aaaa
16:04:34 [aphillip]
zakim, +1.805 is joconner
16:04:34 [Zakim]
+joconner; got it
16:04:50 [Norbert]
Norbert has joined #i18n
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+Norbert
16:09:50 [aphillip]
Topic: Agenda and Minutes
16:09:53 [r12a]
zakim, dial richard
16:09:53 [Zakim]
ok, r12a; the call is being made
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+Richard
16:10:30 [aphillip]
Topic: Action Items
16:11:13 [aphillip]
action: addison: ping anne about encoding spec
16:11:14 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-176 - Ping anne about encoding spec [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-02-07].
16:11:45 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
16:11:48 [aphillip]
close ACTION-158
16:11:48 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-158 Contact Aharon about creating tests for unicode-bidi: isolate.
16:13:04 [aphillip]
close ACTION-172
16:13:04 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-172 Separately poll for final objections to making this meeting on thursdays at 1600 utc and, if none, move the meeting.
16:13:16 [aphillip]
close ACTION-173
16:13:16 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-173 Update review instruction documentation.
16:13:34 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/review-instructions
16:14:15 [aphillip]
Topic: Info Share
16:14:50 [aphillip]
Topic: Scribing
16:17:20 [r12a]
zakim, who's here?
16:17:20 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aphillip, fsasaki, joconner, Norbert, Richard
16:17:21 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Norbert, fsasaki, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12a, trackbot
16:17:26 [aphillip]
discuss scribing on rotation or regularly
16:17:38 [aphillip]
felix, addison, norbert: rotation oaky
16:17:42 [aphillip]
s/oaky/okay
16:17:48 [aphillip]
s/oaky/okay/
16:18:35 [aphillip]
s/norbert/john/
16:20:56 [joconner]
joconner has joined #i18n
16:20:56 [aphillip]
action: addison: establish scribing rotation
16:20:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-177 - Establish scribing rotation [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-02-07].
16:21:16 [aphillip]
rrsagent, help
16:22:21 [aphillip]
addison: i type what people are saying
16:22:29 [aphillip]
... and more text
16:23:23 [r12a]
rssagent, draft minutes
16:23:42 [aphillip]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:23:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:24:19 [aphillip]
... or 3
16:24:19 [aphillip]
felix: offers to scribe in 2 weeks
16:24:36 [aphillip]
Topic: Ruby and Directionality in ITS2.0
16:24:38 [aphillip]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Jan/0078.html
16:24:51 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0144.html
16:25:08 [aphillip]
... had f2f last week
16:25:08 [aphillip]
felix: thanks for all the comments
16:25:08 [aphillip]
... went through everything
16:25:16 [aphillip]
... wrote replies
16:25:16 [aphillip]
... editing to follow
16:25:27 [aphillip]
... thanks for the non-i18n comments
16:25:39 [aphillip]
... wanted to ensure we mentioned
16:25:55 [aphillip]
felix: don't know best way to address ruby/direction comments
16:26:13 [aphillip]
... in terms of ruby did see consensus whether to clarify or drop
16:26:21 [aphillip]
... both ruby and direction are in flux in html5
16:26:42 [aphillip]
... implementers: could make normative, could take from its1.0
16:27:00 [aphillip]
... but maybe a bad idea to make normative stuff that isn't in html5
16:27:07 [aphillip]
... talking to PLH
16:27:18 [aphillip]
... and robin berjon helping edit
16:27:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:27:52 [aphillip]
felix: keep normative, but find way to update
16:27:56 [aphillip]
... ??
16:29:02 [aphillip]
addison: direction still same, only being extended (can extend later???)
16:29:08 [aphillip]
norbert: keep as 1.0, but add note and refer to changes coming?
16:29:31 [aphillip]
richard: will html5 finalize in time for its spec? probably no
16:29:36 [aphillip]
... and can't be guaranteed
16:30:11 [aphillip]
... with @dir, small issue in my mind
16:30:32 [aphillip]
... at a global level, having such-and-such direction on an element is fine
16:30:43 [aphillip]
... its suggests local market for rlo/lro?
16:31:31 [aphillip]
richard: ruby also has this issue
16:31:43 [aphillip]
... local markup is out of sync
16:31:57 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#ruby-implementation
16:32:14 [aphillip]
felix: look at latest spec
16:32:16 [fsasaki]
its:rubyRule selector="/text/body/img[1]/@alt"> <its:rubyText>World Wide Web Consortium</its:rubyText> </its:rubyRule>
16:32:48 [aphillip]
... haven't seen anyone write xpath expression for ruby
16:33:04 [aphillip]
... no one hsa impmented, rendering, etc.
16:33:13 [aphillip]
s/hsa/has/
16:33:20 [aphillip]
... what would be the value?
16:33:36 [aphillip]
norbert: because ruby not implements, should just drop?
16:33:50 [aphillip]
richard: step back a sec.
16:34:03 [aphillip]
... had in ITS1.0; were there implementations?
16:34:08 [aphillip]
... do those count, if so?
16:34:13 [fsasaki]
https://www.w3.org/International/its/tests
16:34:29 [aphillip]
felix: impl tests for serializing data model
16:34:30 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/EX-ruby-pointer-1-result.xml
16:34:42 [aphillip]
felix: if you process global ruby rules
16:34:48 [aphillip]
... could make tests for 2.0
16:35:09 [aphillip]
... no take up for past 5 years
16:35:36 [aphillip]
felix: XLIFF 2.0 wants directionality
16:38:34 [aphillip]
addison: unsurprising no ruby impl: assymetry in source/target
16:39:08 [aphillip]
felix: time/funding pressure
16:39:18 [aphillip]
... not stable at 2.0, have a note
16:39:43 [aphillip]
... plan for 2.1 that could provide normative representation
16:39:57 [aphillip]
... for direction and ruby for non-html environments (e.g. xliff)
16:41:14 [aphillip]
norbert: just drop ruby because can't go to rec without 2 interop impls
16:41:19 [aphillip]
addison: +1
16:41:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:41:45 [aphillip]
richard: what to do with directionality?
16:42:07 [aphillip]
... what's there is "important" and continues to be relevant, so keep
16:42:35 [aphillip]
... is it that hard to implement??
16:42:46 [fsasaki]
http://tinyurl.com/its20-testsuite-dashboard
16:43:31 [aphillip]
felix: instability of html5 is only problem
16:43:43 [aphillip]
... express in a note that changes could impact it
16:44:03 [aphillip]
norbert: richard, you mentioned rlo/lro problem?
16:44:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:44:25 [aphillip]
richard: just drop lro/rlo bit?
16:44:39 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#directionality
16:44:57 [aphillip]
felix: the 'meat' of directionality is just four bullet points
16:45:14 [aphillip]
... so can parse whatever is there into xliff
16:45:56 [aphillip]
richard: think that xhmtl2 and css both have rlo/lro
16:46:38 [aphillip]
... local elements could have overrides in block elements
16:46:45 [aphillip]
.... but html5 doesn't work that way
16:47:15 [fsasaki]
s/directionality/directionality in ITS 1 or 2/
16:47:28 [aphillip]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:47:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:48:01 [aphillip]
norbert: add note that not useful in html5 but may be in other formats
16:48:16 [aphillip]
s/note that/note that rlo and lro/
16:48:33 [aphillip]
felix: just transport values, don't translate them
16:48:51 [aphillip]
... XLIFF2 being developed
16:49:03 [aphillip]
... question whether being transported or being interpreted
16:49:35 [aphillip]
... but ITS is just the transport, not making this decision
16:59:21 [joconner1]
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17:00:44 [aphillip]
action: norbert: coordinate proposing text for ITS directionality with richard
17:00:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-178 - Coordinate proposing text for ITS directionality with richard [on Norbert Lindenberg - due 2013-02-07].
17:01:52 [joconner1]
another obligation at this time.
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joconner1 has left #i18n
17:02:50 [aphillip]
Topic: Publishing BOM article
17:02:58 [aphillip]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Jan/0072.html
17:03:17 [aphillip]
richard: propose...
17:03:23 [aphillip]
... 1, publish new bom document
17:03:36 [aphillip]
... 2. direct people away from old doc
17:03:40 [aphillip]
... link here:
17:04:02 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-utf8-bom should be discontinued
17:04:52 [r12a]
use a server redirect
17:04:55 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/new/qa-utf8-bom-new.en
17:05:11 [aphillip]
norbert: approve
17:05:14 [aphillip]
addison: approve
17:05:15 [joconner]
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17:06:04 [aphillip]
john: approve
17:06:07 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/new/qa-byte-order-mark-new.en
17:06:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:07:03 [Zakim]
-joconner
17:07:24 [aphillip]
action: richard: publish BOM document
17:07:25 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-179 - Publish BOM document [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-02-07].
17:07:35 [aphillip]
Topic: AOB?
17:10:37 [aphillip]
action: addison: file individual comments on css3-text-decoration
17:10:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-180 - File individual comments on css3-text-decoration [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-02-07].
17:10:54 [Zakim]
-fsasaki
17:10:56 [Zakim]
-aphillip
17:10:58 [Zakim]
-Norbert
17:11:49 [aphillip]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:11:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:35:00 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, Richard, in I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM
17:35:01 [Zakim]
I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended
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Attendees were aphillip, fsasaki, +1.805.302.aaaa, joconner, Norbert, Richard
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