15:54:03 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 15:54:03 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-irc 15:54:06 Zakim has joined #i18n 15:54:21 trackbot, prepare teleconference 15:54:23 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:54:25 Zakim, this will be 4186 15:54:25 ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes 15:54:26 Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 15:54:26 Date: 31 January 2013 15:54:51 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Jan/0081.html 15:55:13 Chair: Addison Phillips 15:55:13 ScribeNick: aphillip 15:55:13 Scribe: Addison Phillips 15:55:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:55:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip 15:55:44 rrsagent, set logs world 15:59:57 I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started 15:59:58 fsasaki has joined #i18n 16:00:07 +aphillip 16:00:39 +??P20 16:00:40 Regrets: Mati 16:04:11 + +1.805.302.aaaa 16:04:34 zakim, +1.805 is joconner 16:04:34 +joconner; got it 16:04:50 Norbert has joined #i18n 16:05:33 +Norbert 16:09:50 Topic: Agenda and Minutes 16:09:53 zakim, dial richard 16:09:53 ok, r12a; the call is being made 16:09:55 +Richard 16:10:30 Topic: Action Items 16:11:13 action: addison: ping anne about encoding spec 16:11:14 Created ACTION-176 - Ping anne about encoding spec [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-02-07]. 16:11:45 http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open 16:11:48 close ACTION-158 16:11:48 Closed ACTION-158 Contact Aharon about creating tests for unicode-bidi: isolate. 16:13:04 close ACTION-172 16:13:04 Closed ACTION-172 Separately poll for final objections to making this meeting on thursdays at 1600 utc and, if none, move the meeting. 16:13:16 close ACTION-173 16:13:16 Closed ACTION-173 Update review instruction documentation. 16:13:34 http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/review-instructions 16:14:15 Topic: Info Share 16:14:50 Topic: Scribing 16:17:20 zakim, who's here? 16:17:20 On the phone I see aphillip, fsasaki, joconner, Norbert, Richard 16:17:21 On IRC I see Norbert, fsasaki, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12a, trackbot 16:17:26 discuss scribing on rotation or regularly 16:17:38 felix, addison, norbert: rotation oaky 16:17:42 s/oaky/okay 16:17:48 s/oaky/okay/ 16:18:35 s/norbert/john/ 16:20:56 joconner has joined #i18n 16:20:56 action: addison: establish scribing rotation 16:20:56 Created ACTION-177 - Establish scribing rotation [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-02-07]. 16:21:16 rrsagent, help 16:22:21 addison: i type what people are saying 16:22:29 ... and more text 16:23:23 rssagent, draft minutes 16:23:42 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:23:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip 16:24:19 ... or 3 16:24:19 felix: offers to scribe in 2 weeks 16:24:36 Topic: Ruby and Directionality in ITS2.0 16:24:38 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Jan/0078.html 16:24:51 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0144.html 16:25:08 ... had f2f last week 16:25:08 felix: thanks for all the comments 16:25:08 ... went through everything 16:25:16 ... wrote replies 16:25:16 ... editing to follow 16:25:27 ... thanks for the non-i18n comments 16:25:39 ... wanted to ensure we mentioned 16:25:55 felix: don't know best way to address ruby/direction comments 16:26:13 ... in terms of ruby did see consensus whether to clarify or drop 16:26:21 ... both ruby and direction are in flux in html5 16:26:42 ... implementers: could make normative, could take from its1.0 16:27:00 ... but maybe a bad idea to make normative stuff that isn't in html5 16:27:07 ... talking to PLH 16:27:18 ... and robin berjon helping edit 16:27:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip 16:27:52 felix: keep normative, but find way to update 16:27:56 ... ?? 16:29:02 addison: direction still same, only being extended (can extend later???) 16:29:08 norbert: keep as 1.0, but add note and refer to changes coming? 16:29:31 richard: will html5 finalize in time for its spec? probably no 16:29:36 ... and can't be guaranteed 16:30:11 ... with @dir, small issue in my mind 16:30:32 ... at a global level, having such-and-such direction on an element is fine 16:30:43 ... its suggests local market for rlo/lro? 16:31:31 richard: ruby also has this issue 16:31:43 ... local markup is out of sync 16:31:57 http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#ruby-implementation 16:32:14 felix: look at latest spec 16:32:16 its:rubyRule selector="/text/body/img[1]/@alt"> World Wide Web Consortium 16:32:48 ... haven't seen anyone write xpath expression for ruby 16:33:04 ... no one hsa impmented, rendering, etc. 16:33:13 s/hsa/has/ 16:33:20 ... what would be the value? 16:33:36 norbert: because ruby not implements, should just drop? 16:33:50 richard: step back a sec. 16:34:03 ... had in ITS1.0; were there implementations? 16:34:08 ... do those count, if so? 16:34:13 https://www.w3.org/International/its/tests 16:34:29 felix: impl tests for serializing data model 16:34:30 http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/EX-ruby-pointer-1-result.xml 16:34:42 felix: if you process global ruby rules 16:34:48 ... could make tests for 2.0 16:35:09 ... no take up for past 5 years 16:35:36 felix: XLIFF 2.0 wants directionality 16:38:34 addison: unsurprising no ruby impl: assymetry in source/target 16:39:08 felix: time/funding pressure 16:39:18 ... not stable at 2.0, have a note 16:39:43 ... plan for 2.1 that could provide normative representation 16:39:57 ... for direction and ruby for non-html environments (e.g. xliff) 16:41:14 norbert: just drop ruby because can't go to rec without 2 interop impls 16:41:19 addison: +1 16:41:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip 16:41:45 richard: what to do with directionality? 16:42:07 ... what's there is "important" and continues to be relevant, so keep 16:42:35 ... is it that hard to implement?? 16:42:46 http://tinyurl.com/its20-testsuite-dashboard 16:43:31 felix: instability of html5 is only problem 16:43:43 ... express in a note that changes could impact it 16:44:03 norbert: richard, you mentioned rlo/lro problem? 16:44:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip 16:44:25 richard: just drop lro/rlo bit? 16:44:39 http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#directionality 16:44:57 felix: the 'meat' of directionality is just four bullet points 16:45:14 ... so can parse whatever is there into xliff 16:45:56 richard: think that xhmtl2 and css both have rlo/lro 16:46:38 ... local elements could have overrides in block elements 16:46:45 .... but html5 doesn't work that way 16:47:15 s/directionality/directionality in ITS 1 or 2/ 16:47:28 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:47:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip 16:48:01 norbert: add note that not useful in html5 but may be in other formats 16:48:16 s/note that/note that rlo and lro/ 16:48:33 felix: just transport values, don't translate them 16:48:51 ... XLIFF2 being developed 16:49:03 ... question whether being transported or being interpreted 16:49:35 ... but ITS is just the transport, not making this decision 16:59:21 joconner1 has joined #i18n 17:00:44 action: norbert: coordinate proposing text for ITS directionality with richard 17:00:44 Created ACTION-178 - Coordinate proposing text for ITS directionality with richard [on Norbert Lindenberg - due 2013-02-07]. 17:01:52 another obligation at this time. 17:01:55 joconner1 has left #i18n 17:02:50 Topic: Publishing BOM article 17:02:58 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Jan/0072.html 17:03:17 richard: propose... 17:03:23 ... 1, publish new bom document 17:03:36 ... 2. direct people away from old doc 17:03:40 ... link here: 17:04:02 http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-utf8-bom should be discontinued 17:04:52 use a server redirect 17:04:55 http://www.w3.org/International/questions/new/qa-utf8-bom-new.en 17:05:11 norbert: approve 17:05:14 addison: approve 17:05:15 joconner has joined #i18n 17:06:04 john: approve 17:06:07 http://www.w3.org/International/questions/new/qa-byte-order-mark-new.en 17:06:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip 17:07:03 -joconner 17:07:24 action: richard: publish BOM document 17:07:25 Created ACTION-179 - Publish BOM document [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-02-07]. 17:07:35 Topic: AOB? 17:10:37 action: addison: file individual comments on css3-text-decoration 17:10:37 Created ACTION-180 - File individual comments on css3-text-decoration [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-02-07]. 17:10:54 -fsasaki 17:10:56 -aphillip 17:10:58 -Norbert 17:11:49 rrsagent, make minutes 17:11:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-i18n-minutes.html aphillip 17:35:00 disconnecting the lone participant, Richard, in I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM 17:35:01 I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended 17:35:01 Attendees were aphillip, fsasaki, +1.805.302.aaaa, joconner, Norbert, Richard 19:30:35 Zakim has left #i18n