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15:42:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-irc
15:42:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:42:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
15:42:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
15:42:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
15:42:53 <trackbot> Date: 30 January 2013
15:42:56 <Steven> Chair: Steven
15:43:01 <Steven> Regrets: Philip
15:43:26 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0032
15:43:41 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0032.html
15:54:31 <alain> alain has joined #forms
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16:02:40 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
16:02:48 <Zakim> +ebruchez
16:03:53 <unl> unl has joined #forms
16:04:14 <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
16:04:14 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
16:04:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:05:03 <Zakim> +??P16
16:05:10 <Zakim> +nvdbleek
16:05:14 <alain> Zakim, [IPcaller is alain
16:05:14 <Zakim> +alain; got it
16:05:15 <Zakim> +unl
16:05:16 <Steven> zakim, I am ??P16
16:05:16 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
16:05:32 <Steven> zakim, who is on the call?
16:05:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see ebruchez, alain, Steven, nvdbleek, unl
16:07:03 <Steven> Scribe: Nick
16:07:19 <Steven> Topic: XML London 15-16th June
16:07:20 <nvdbleek> scribenick:nvdbleek
16:07:41 <nvdbleek> Steven: This is a new XML conference
16:07:55 <nvdbleek> http://xmllondon.com/
16:08:16 <Steven> Deadline 15th Mar 2013
16:08:57 <Steven> Topic: XForms 2.0 spec review: The var element
16:08:57 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0012.html
16:08:57 <nvdbleek> Topic: XForms 2.0 spec review: The var element
16:09:13 <nvdbleek> Steven: So erik
16:09:49 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: I did some clean-up
16:10:23 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: Nick it looks like you took the xslt text and change at less as possible
16:11:34 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: All the changes you made make it more readable, so the changes are definitely fine
16:12:48 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We disallow shadowing. XSLT allows it. I could go either way.
16:14:54 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: Disallowing shadowing for now is ok for me, I rarely used in XSLT and don't see any use cases in XForms for now
16:15:31 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We need some samples of use cases for variables
16:15:44 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: I can come up with some examples
16:16:15 <nvdbleek> ACTION ebruchez to add exmples of the use of variables to the XForms 2.0
16:16:15 <trackbot> Error finding 'ebruchez'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.
16:16:47 <Steven> ACTION: erik to add exmples of the use of variables to the XForms 2.0
16:16:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1922 - Add exmples of the use of variables to the XForms 2.0 [on Erik Bruchez - due 2013-02-06].
16:17:20 <Steven> Topic: XForms 2.0 spec review: External JSON values
16:17:20 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0013.html
16:17:51 <nvdbleek> Steven: Erik says that "We need to specify what happens if the format is invalid during submission."
16:17:58 <nvdbleek> Steven: fair enough
16:18:36 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We should at least mention that submission will fail if the processor can't convert the XML to JSON
16:19:25 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: Related: should we explicitly say that unknown elements/attributes
16:19:25 <nvdbleek> are ignored? Or only those in a namespace? This could be useful so
16:19:25 <nvdbleek> that you can locally annotate the XML document yet still submit it back to JSON.
16:20:36 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: any xml element in the default namespace could be converted to JSON, but elements in another namesapce wouldn't be converted to JSON
16:21:42 <nvdbleek> Steven: We should say that namespace elements and unknown attributes should be ignored while converted to JSON (they can be used as meta-data)
16:22:53 <nvdbleek> ACTION Steven To add text that submission will fail if the XML can't be converted to JSON
16:22:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1923 - Add text that submission will fail if the XML can't be converted to JSON [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].
16:23:51 <nvdbleek> ACTION Steven Add text to the spec that elements not in the default namespace and unknown attributes won't be taken into account when serialising the XML to JSON
16:23:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1924 - Add text to the spec that elements not in the default namespace and unknown attributes won't be taken into account when serialising the XML to JSON [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].
16:24:39 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: marked by the header parameter of the media type
16:25:53 <nvdbleek> Steven: We use it to specify if the CSV header row should be added or not
16:26:58 <Steven> "Optional parameters: charset, header
16:26:58 <Steven>       Common usage of CSV is US-ASCII, but other character sets defined
16:26:58 <Steven>       by IANA for the "text" tree may be used in conjunction with the
16:26:58 <Steven>       "charset" parameter.
16:26:58 <Steven>       The "header" parameter indicates the presence or absence of the
16:26:59 <Steven>       header line.  Valid values are "present" or "absent".
16:26:59 <Steven>       Implementors choosing not to use this parameter must make their
16:26:59 <Steven>       own decisions as to whether the header line is present or absent."
16:27:07 <Steven> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4180
16:27:47 <ebruchez> Valid values are "present" or "absent"
16:28:49 <nvdbleek> Steven: I have to investigate what people have done when the header parameter is left out, because the spec doesn't tell what to do
16:29:21 <Steven> ACTION: Steven toinvestigate what happens when header param of csv files is left off
16:29:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1925 - Toinvestigate what happens when header param of csv files is left off [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].
16:30:18 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: You have to go to the rfc to know the value
16:30:30 <nvdbleek> Steven: I can at least at a reference to the spec there
16:30:31 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to add ref to CSV spec at the mention of the header param
16:30:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1926 - Add ref to CSV spec at the mention of the header param [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].
16:31:11 <nvdbleek> unl: I have a question about the header element
16:32:46 <nvdbleek> unl: if you have a header then you create elements with it as element name, if absent the elements are called v
16:34:18 <nvdbleek> unl: I'm concerned when we serialize back how you know if there was an header or not
16:35:00 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: My understanding was, that if you want a header row you specified it on the submission
16:35:15 <nvdbleek> unl: Ok this might not be a problem then
16:35:48 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: If you want to know if the incoming csv has a header row of not
16:37:20 <nvdbleek> Steven: I think that it is a big fault in the csv format that you can't know looking at the content that you have a header row or not
16:38:08 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: What if it served incorrectly, and the header states that there is no header but there is a header
16:39:00 <nvdbleek> Steven: It is not only for CSV, it is also for XML documents, if the header is incorrect then we won't accept the XML
16:39:32 <nvdbleek> Steven: There is a problem when you load CSV from the filesystem, because then you don't have any headers
16:39:54 <ebruchez> CSV issue #1: what if header attribute is missing in content type?
16:40:19 <nvdbleek> Steven: Lets remember this as a problem, but I don't see a solution at the moment
16:40:21 <ebruchez> CSV issue #2: can XForms know whether the response had the header attribute (e.g. so it can serialize it back with or without a header row).
16:45:28 <Steven> Conclusion: no header param mis the same as headers=absent
16:45:36 <Steven> s/mis/is/
16:46:12 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to add no header param means the same as headers=absent
16:46:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1927 - Add no header param means the same as headers=absent [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].
16:46:27 <Steven> Topic: XForms 2.0 spec review: misc fixes
16:46:27 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0014.html
16:47:00 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: Minor edit
16:48:23 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: The introduction is outdated
16:48:39 <nvdbleek> Steven: I will be happy to have a look at it
16:49:26 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to review intro to XForms
16:49:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1928 - Review intro to XForms [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].
16:49:57 <Steven> Topic: The XForms Dialog Module
16:49:57 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0019.html
16:50:27 <nvdbleek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0021.html
16:51:12 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We noticed that dialog was missing, Nick recalled only two open issues
16:51:27 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: There is slide bias to show and hide
16:52:11 <Steven> s/slide/slight/
16:52:19 <nvdbleek> RESOLUTION: We will use show and hide in the dialog module
16:52:19 <Steven> So resolved
16:53:09 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: It is done as a separate module
16:55:59 <nvdbleek> Steven: It can be a separate module in the main spec
16:56:58 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We don't need to create a separate file
16:57:39 <Zakim> -nvdbleek
16:57:41 <Steven> scribe: Nick
16:57:51 <Steven> scribe: Steven
16:58:08 <Steven> Erik: Let's just in the main body of the spec
16:58:24 <Steven> s/just/just put it /
16:58:57 <Steven> Uli: We need to talk about relevance
16:59:10 <Steven> Steven: But not in two minutes, let's save it to next week
16:59:24 <Zakim> -Steven
16:59:25 <Zakim> -alain
16:59:26 <Zakim> -ebruchez
16:59:27 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
16:59:27 <Zakim> Attendees were ebruchez, [IPcaller], nvdbleek, alain, unl, Steven
16:59:32 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
16:59:37 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:59:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html Steven
17:00:29 <Steven> ACTION 1925?
17:00:35 <Steven> action-1925?
17:00:35 <trackbot> ACTION-1925 -- Steven Pemberton to toinvestigate what happens when header param of csv files is left off -- due 2013-02-06 -- OPEN
17:00:35 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/actions/1925
17:00:49 <Steven> close action-1925
17:00:49 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-1925 Toinvestigate what happens when header param of csv files is left off.
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