14:25:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mlw-lt
14:25:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-irc
14:25:49 <fsasaki> meeting: mlw-lt wg
14:26:09 <fsasaki> chair: Arle
14:26:55 <fsasaki> regrets: Yves, felix, Dave, david, Naoto
14:28:55 <fsasaki> rrsagent, make log public
14:29:16 <fsasaki> Rrsagent, draft minutes
14:29:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:30:00 <fsasaki> TOpic: roll call
14:30:01 <Arle> Arle has joined #mlw-lt
14:30:39 <fsasaki> TOpic: issue review
14:30:59 <fsasaki> Rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:31:42 <fsasaki> Hi Arle, I am only on irc, will drop soon
14:50:36 <kfritsche> kfritsche has joined #mlw-lt
14:55:14 <kfritsche> present +Karl
14:55:22 <Arle> present+ Olaf-Michael
14:55:47 <Arle> regrets: Dave, David, Felix
14:58:15 <shaunm> present+ shaunm
14:59:06 <Arle> Minutes from Prague can be seen here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0197.html
14:59:15 <omstefanov> omstefanov has joined #mlw-lt
14:59:49 <leroy> leroy has joined #mlw-lt
15:00:07 <Arle> See http://services.w3.org/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Fdrafts%2Fits20%2Ftools%2Fxslt%2Fdisco-for-its20.xsl&xmlfile=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Ftrack%2Fapi%2Fdump%3Ffull&content-type=&submit=transform for the list of issues.
15:02:12 <joerg> joerg has joined #mlw-lt
15:02:27 <joerg> present+ joerg
15:02:36 <Arle> present+ Pedro
15:02:42 <Pedro> Pedro has joined #mlw-lt
15:03:13 <Arle> present+ Giuseppe
15:03:24 <Arle> present+ Clemens
15:03:40 <pnietoca> pnietoca has joined #mlw-lt
15:03:43 <Arle> present+ Pablo
15:03:45 <mdelolmo> mdelolmo has joined #mlw-lt
15:03:59 <leroy> present+ leroy
15:04:08 <joerg> Hi all, today IRC only... Sorry, I'm still in another meeting.
15:04:16 <mdelolmo> present+ mdelolmo
15:04:24 <Arle> scribe: Arle
15:04:30 <Arle> chair:Arle
15:05:08 <Arle> Start from http://services.w3.org/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Fdrafts%2Fits20%2Ftools%2Fxslt%2Fdisco-for-its20.xsl&xmlfile=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Ftrack%2Fapi%2Fdump%3Ffull&content-type=&submit=transform
15:05:52 <Arle> issue-67?
15:05:52 <trackbot> ISSUE-67 -- Change definition of regular expression for allowed characters -- open
15:05:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/67
15:06:22 <giuseppe> giuseppe has joined #mlw-lt
15:06:38 <shaunm> I can hear you
15:06:40 <Arle> Shaun: can you hear us?
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15:07:43 <Arle> Shaun: Wrote an email to a list with a safe subset of regex character classes. It is smaller in features than anticipated, but for six engines, that is what it wa.
15:07:59 <Arle> .. When we last spoke, I'm not sure what the decision was.
15:08:08 <Clemens> present+ Clemens
15:08:40 <Arle> Arle: No decision taken in Prague.
15:08:53 <Marcis> Marcis has joined #mlw-lt
15:09:01 <Marcis> present+ Marcis
15:09:07 <Arle> Shaun: I will continue and try to write a portable regular expression to describe the portable regular expression. We don't want to accidentally use a feature in some engine.
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15:09:30 <Arle> Arle: We will have to go to another last call anyway, so we can continue.
15:09:32 <Ankit> Ankit has joined #mlw-lt
15:09:40 <Ankit> present+ Ankit
15:10:02 <DomJones> present+ DomJones
15:10:05 <Arle> issue-105?
15:10:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-105 -- I18N-ISSUE-245: Consider replacing Unicode block escapes with script escapes [ITS-20] -- open
15:10:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/105
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15:11:32 <Arle> Shaun: We need to point to one specification to explain regex, even if we use a subset.
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15:11:42 <Arle> issue-69?
15:11:42 <trackbot> ISSUE-69 -- recursive nesting of external rules -- open
15:11:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/69
15:11:44 <chriLi> present+ chriLi
15:12:10 <Milan> Milan has joined #mlw-lt
15:12:28 <Arle> issue-70?
15:12:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-70 -- Defined order of precedence missing inherited local values -- open
15:12:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/70
15:13:20 <Arle> No comment
15:13:24 <fsasaki> Sorry, on irc only. But.for the record, "another last call anyway " is not yet true.
15:13:27 <Arle> issue-71?
15:13:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-71 -- Section 5.8 (annotatorsRef) -- open
15:13:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/71
15:13:59 <Arle> no comment
15:14:06 <Arle> issue-72?
15:14:06 <trackbot> ISSUE-72 -- Section 8.12 (Provenance Data Category) -- open
15:14:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/72
15:15:23 <Arle> no comments
15:15:27 <Arle> issue-73?
15:15:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-73 -- NIF comments -- open
15:15:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/73
15:16:33 <Arle> no comments
15:17:05 <Arle> Christian: Actually, Felix wants to reach out to Sebastian Hellman to clarify the status of NIF 1.0 and 2.0.
15:17:17 <Arle> issue-74?
15:17:17 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 WD-its20-20121206 - Section 1.1 (Relation to ITS 1.0 and New Principles) -- open
15:17:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/74
15:18:02 <Arle> Christian: Before moving on, I haven't checked on the connection between canonical XML, Unicode normalization, and regular expression.
15:18:18 <Arle> Shaun: In general, regex is a mess with respect to Unicode normalization.
15:18:48 <Arle> ..Example: E + combining acute, if U+00E9 matches is up to the regex engine and whether it handles normalization.
15:19:03 <Arle> .. It is a huge mess. I would strongly recommend that people normalize their Unicode.
15:19:24 <Arle> Christian: This is good information. Makes a stronger case for Unicode normalization.
15:20:21 <Arle> Shaun: Would normally recommend normalization at every step. If there are chains where people don't do this, perhaps they have reasons. So I don't know if we say we MUST normalize, or if it is best practice.
15:20:38 <Arle> .. I would like to hear from people who make non-normalized Unicode. I don't know who they are and if there are problems.
15:21:28 <Arle> action: Shaun to draft text explaining importance of Unicode normalization and best practices on ISSUE-67
15:21:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-430 - Draft text explaining importance of Unicode normalization and best practices on ISSUE-67 [on Shaun McCance - due 2013-02-04].
15:22:02 <Arle> Christian: Thanks, Shaun for doing that.
15:22:59 <Arle> Karl: Should be only a note, and not include a MUST. In the complete standard, we should tell people how to do things, not MUST.
15:23:19 <Arle> Arle: +1
15:23:27 <fsasaki> +1 to karl
15:23:53 <omstefanov> +1 to Karl, too, based on experience with UN legacy texts
15:24:55 <Arle> No comments on issue-74
15:25:09 <Arle> issue-75?
15:25:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-75 -- Comments related to "domain" -- open
15:25:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/75
15:25:36 <Arle> Christian: for issue-74, I've tried to talk to Dave and David, but haven't heard back yet.
15:26:29 <Arle> Jörg, any comments on issue-75?
15:26:58 <Arle> See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0022.html
15:27:27 <joerg> I haven't got any feedback so far on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0143.html
15:27:32 <Arle> Christian: Thanks to Jörg for his summaries and shepherding. His summaries are good and adequate. So far we only have resolved two of the three issues.
15:28:02 <Arle> .. Only 2b has been resolved.
15:28:46 <Arle> issue-76?
15:28:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-76 -- clarification of "inconsistency" quality issue type needed -- open
15:28:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/76
15:28:55 <Arle> Arle: I have to provide the text.
15:29:14 <Arle> issue-77?
15:29:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-77 -- Precedence of global rules in HTML if both links and inline rules with "script" are available -- closed
15:29:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/77
15:29:42 <Arle> http://www.w3.org/2013/01/23-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04
15:30:38 <fsasaki> Hi all, I have to leave, please write any complaint in irc, will look later :-)
15:31:12 <pnietoca> Yes Jirka was the sheperd
15:31:16 <pnietoca> see http://www.w3.org/2013/01/21-mlw-lt-minutes.html
15:31:46 <Arle> issue-78?
15:31:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-78 -- I18N-ISSUE-203: Use of rel values in HTML -- open
15:31:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/78
15:32:16 <Arle> No comments.
15:32:25 <Arle> issue-79?
15:32:25 <trackbot> ISSUE-79 -- I18N-ISSUE-204: Use of namespaces and HTML -- open
15:32:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/79
15:33:07 <Arle> Olaf-Michael: Sounds like a simple clarification.
15:33:11 <Arle> Arle: +1
15:33:21 <Arle> issue-80?
15:33:21 <trackbot> ISSUE-80 -- I18N-ISSUE-205: Examples of html markup in section 6 -- open
15:33:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/80
15:34:02 <Arle> No comments
15:34:06 <Arle> issue-81?
15:34:06 <trackbot> ISSUE-81 -- I18N-ISSUE-207: Term data category and dfn element -- open
15:34:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/81
15:35:10 <Marcis> I think it was mentioned that this should be in a best practice document
15:35:25 <Arle> Arle: We would suggest mappings, but not be mandatory.
15:35:56 <chriLi> http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#associating-its-with-existing-markup
15:36:08 <Marcis> The mapping goes one way but not the other way
15:36:08 <Arle> Christian: Maybe this explanation could be in a similar place where we had it for ITS 1.0.
15:37:27 <Arle> Marcis: If I recall, we discussed that the definition element is a sub-category of term, since you need a definition in HTML content, and only then can you use <dfn>, so we left with the understanding that it is in best-practice and not in the normative section.
15:37:53 <Arle> Christian: Old section 5 was non-normative.
15:38:14 <Arle> Arle: Question of prominence.
15:38:50 <chriLi> s/non-normative/normative
15:39:57 <Arle> Action: Arle to discuss with Felix the best location for this mapping list on issue-81
15:39:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-431 - Discuss with Felix the best location for this mapping list on issue-81 [on Arle Lommel - due 2013-02-04].
15:40:31 <Arle> Christian: For ITS 1.0, we used "associating" with existing markup. May be clearer with mapping, to resolve issues of bidirectionally.
15:40:42 <Arle> Arle: "Associating" is fine.
15:41:04 <Arle> issue-82
15:41:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-82 -- I18N-ISSUE-208: Mapping domains to nothing -- open
15:41:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/82
15:41:55 <Arle> no comments.
15:41:58 <Arle> issue-83?
15:41:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-83 -- Notes on loc quality issue section -- open
15:41:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/83
15:43:18 <Arle> Arle: Can't point to EN-15038. Out of scope. TS-11669 is more relevant, defines expectations about translation.
15:44:08 <Arle> .. Recommendation was to address quality in framework of TS-11669. That is be listed as an example of what the quality profile might point to, at a minimum.
15:44:47 <Arle> Christian: I still don't get the difference between metrics and expectations, metrics, etc.
15:46:25 <Arle> .. Explained some about it.
15:46:53 <Arle> Christian: I think it changes the semantics of the pointer. IF you use parameters instead of metric.
15:47:13 <Arle> Action: Arle to draft out the differences in more detail on ISSUE-83.
15:47:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-432 - Draft out the differences in more detail on ISSUE-83. [on Arle Lommel - due 2013-02-04].
15:47:33 <Arle> Christian: For buyers, you would point to an SLA.
15:47:41 <Arle> .. We need to clarify what is here.
15:48:15 <Arle> issue-84?
15:48:15 <trackbot> ISSUE-84 -- translate ITS 2.0 requirements w.r.t Indian [Indic] languages -- open
15:48:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/84
15:49:13 <Arle> Arle: Dave is taking care of this. We rejected most of them as out of scope.
15:49:36 <Arle> Olaf-Michael: Does anyone in the WG have experience with Indic languages?
15:49:43 <Arle> Serge: We translate into those languages?
15:49:53 <Arle> s/languages?/languages./
15:50:24 <chriLi> Aside: We got input which possibly overlaps already for ITS 1.0 (see http://www.w3.org/wiki/Its0908LinguisticMarkup)
15:50:30 <Arle> Ankit: I have this experience. The issues they raise are valid, but as Dave replied, I agree.
15:51:05 <Arle> Christian: We did not include that into our requirements for 1.0.
15:51:36 <Arle> issue-85?
15:51:36 <trackbot> ISSUE-85 -- NLP Interchange Format (NIF) - 1.0/2.0, Canonical XML, Unicode Normalization Forms -- closed
15:51:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/85
15:51:59 <Arle> Duplicate of ISSUE-73
15:52:04 <Arle> issue-86?
15:52:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-86 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-209: Implementation commitment -- open
15:52:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/86
15:53:16 <Arle> Arle: This one is unsettled at present.
15:53:19 <Arle> No comments.
15:53:23 <Arle> issue-87?
15:53:23 <trackbot> ISSUE-87 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-210: Whitespace in ruby example -- open
15:53:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/87
15:53:37 <Arle> No comments
15:53:40 <Arle> issue-88?
15:53:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-211: Quote element in HTML [should be cite, q, or blockquote] -- open
15:53:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/88
15:54:02 <Arle> No comments.
15:54:05 <Arle> issue-89?
15:54:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-89 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-212: HTML5 in the ITS spec -- open
15:54:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/89
15:54:53 <Arle> Arle: To clarify we mean HTML5, not all HTML
15:54:56 <Arle> No comments
15:55:01 <Arle> issue-90?
15:55:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-90 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-214: directionality should be made normative, with informative additions -- open
15:55:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/90
15:55:42 <Arle> Arle: Not in minutes from Prague.
15:55:48 <Arle> issue-91?
15:55:48 <trackbot> ISSUE-91 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-215: Parts of Ruby section should be removed -- open
15:55:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/91
15:55:56 <Arle> issue-92?
15:55:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-92 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-216: Locale filter note -- open
15:55:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/92
15:56:20 <Arle> Arle: accepted. Moving text around in editorial fashion.
15:56:22 <Arle> No comments.
15:56:26 <Arle> issue-93?
15:56:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-93 -- Case-insensitivity mode for predefined tokens undefined; should be ASCII-case-insensitivity -- closed
15:56:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/93
15:56:47 <Arle> No comments.
15:57:46 <Arle> Arle: review minutes: http://www.w3.org/2013/01/23-mlw-lt-minutes.html and http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-mlw-lt-minutes.html and send comments
15:58:06 <Arle> Topic: AOB
15:58:28 <Arle> Olaf-Michael: What's the schedule?
15:58:51 <joerg> joerg has left #mlw-lt
15:59:00 <Arle> Arle: You can attend one or both per week.
15:59:28 <Arle> Christian: We have a tighter meeting schedule to drive the schedule.
15:59:52 <Arle> Arle: Please raise issues in meetings you can attend.
16:00:17 <Arle> .. Also, in the next meeting, Felix will explain the repeat last-call procedure.
16:02:13 <Arle> Rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html Arle
16:03:12 <Arle> rrsagent, make minutes public
16:03:12 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', Arle.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:04:06 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #mlw-lt
16:04:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
16:05:50 <Des> Des has joined #mlw-lt
16:06:56 <fsasaki> rrsagent, bye
16:06:56 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-actions.rdf :
16:06:56 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shaun to draft text explaining importance of Unicode normalization and best practices on ISSUE-67 [1]
16:06:56 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-irc#T15-21-28
16:06:56 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Arle to discuss with Felix the best location for this mapping list on issue-81 [2]
16:06:56 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-irc#T15-39-57
16:06:56 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Arle to draft out the differences in more detail on ISSUE-83. [3]
16:06:56 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-irc#T15-47-13
16:07:00 <Milan> Milan has left #mlw-lt