IRC log of mlw-lt on 2013-01-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:25:24 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mlw-lt
14:25:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-irc
14:25:49 [fsasaki]
meeting: mlw-lt wg
14:26:09 [fsasaki]
chair: Arle
14:26:55 [fsasaki]
regrets: Yves, felix, Dave, david, Naoto
14:28:55 [fsasaki]
rrsagent, make log public
14:29:16 [fsasaki]
Rrsagent, draft minutes
14:29:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:30:00 [fsasaki]
TOpic: roll call
14:30:01 [Arle]
Arle has joined #mlw-lt
14:30:39 [fsasaki]
TOpic: issue review
14:30:59 [fsasaki]
Rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:31:42 [fsasaki]
Hi Arle, I am only on irc, will drop soon
14:50:36 [kfritsche]
kfritsche has joined #mlw-lt
14:55:14 [kfritsche]
present +Karl
14:55:22 [Arle]
present+ Olaf-Michael
14:55:47 [Arle]
regrets: Dave, David, Felix
14:58:15 [shaunm]
present+ shaunm
14:59:06 [Arle]
Minutes from Prague can be seen here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0197.html
14:59:15 [omstefanov]
omstefanov has joined #mlw-lt
14:59:49 [leroy]
leroy has joined #mlw-lt
15:00:07 [Arle]
See http://services.w3.org/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Fdrafts%2Fits20%2Ftools%2Fxslt%2Fdisco-for-its20.xsl&xmlfile=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Ftrack%2Fapi%2Fdump%3Ffull&content-type=&submit=transform for the list of issues.
15:02:12 [joerg]
joerg has joined #mlw-lt
15:02:27 [joerg]
present+ joerg
15:02:36 [Arle]
present+ Pedro
15:02:42 [Pedro]
Pedro has joined #mlw-lt
15:03:13 [Arle]
present+ Giuseppe
15:03:24 [Arle]
present+ Clemens
15:03:40 [pnietoca]
pnietoca has joined #mlw-lt
15:03:43 [Arle]
present+ Pablo
15:03:45 [mdelolmo]
mdelolmo has joined #mlw-lt
15:03:59 [leroy]
present+ leroy
15:04:08 [joerg]
Hi all, today IRC only... Sorry, I'm still in another meeting.
15:04:16 [mdelolmo]
present+ mdelolmo
15:04:24 [Arle]
scribe: Arle
15:04:30 [Arle]
chair:Arle
15:05:08 [Arle]
Start from http://services.w3.org/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Fdrafts%2Fits20%2Ftools%2Fxslt%2Fdisco-for-its20.xsl&xmlfile=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FInternational%2Fmultilingualweb%2Flt%2Ftrack%2Fapi%2Fdump%3Ffull&content-type=&submit=transform
15:05:52 [Arle]
issue-67?
15:05:52 [trackbot]
ISSUE-67 -- Change definition of regular expression for allowed characters -- open
15:05:52 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/67
15:06:22 [giuseppe]
giuseppe has joined #mlw-lt
15:06:38 [shaunm]
I can hear you
15:06:40 [Arle]
Shaun: can you hear us?
15:07:42 [Clemens]
Clemens has joined #mlw-lt
15:07:43 [Arle]
Shaun: Wrote an email to a list with a safe subset of regex character classes. It is smaller in features than anticipated, but for six engines, that is what it wa.
15:07:59 [Arle]
.. When we last spoke, I'm not sure what the decision was.
15:08:08 [Clemens]
present+ Clemens
15:08:40 [Arle]
Arle: No decision taken in Prague.
15:08:53 [Marcis]
Marcis has joined #mlw-lt
15:09:01 [Marcis]
present+ Marcis
15:09:07 [Arle]
Shaun: I will continue and try to write a portable regular expression to describe the portable regular expression. We don't want to accidentally use a feature in some engine.
15:09:17 [DomJones]
DomJones has joined #mlw-lt
15:09:30 [Arle]
Arle: We will have to go to another last call anyway, so we can continue.
15:09:32 [Ankit]
Ankit has joined #mlw-lt
15:09:40 [Ankit]
present+ Ankit
15:10:02 [DomJones]
present+ DomJones
15:10:05 [Arle]
issue-105?
15:10:05 [trackbot]
ISSUE-105 -- I18N-ISSUE-245: Consider replacing Unicode block escapes with script escapes [ITS-20] -- open
15:10:05 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/105
15:10:39 [SergeGladkoff]
SergeGladkoff has joined #mlw-lt
15:11:32 [Arle]
Shaun: We need to point to one specification to explain regex, even if we use a subset.
15:11:41 [chriLi]
chriLi has joined #mlw-lt
15:11:42 [Arle]
issue-69?
15:11:42 [trackbot]
ISSUE-69 -- recursive nesting of external rules -- open
15:11:42 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/69
15:11:44 [chriLi]
present+ chriLi
15:12:10 [Milan]
Milan has joined #mlw-lt
15:12:28 [Arle]
issue-70?
15:12:28 [trackbot]
ISSUE-70 -- Defined order of precedence missing inherited local values -- open
15:12:28 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/70
15:13:20 [Arle]
No comment
15:13:24 [fsasaki]
Sorry, on irc only. But.for the record, "another last call anyway " is not yet true.
15:13:27 [Arle]
issue-71?
15:13:27 [trackbot]
ISSUE-71 -- Section 5.8 (annotatorsRef) -- open
15:13:27 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/71
15:13:59 [Arle]
no comment
15:14:06 [Arle]
issue-72?
15:14:06 [trackbot]
ISSUE-72 -- Section 8.12 (Provenance Data Category) -- open
15:14:06 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/72
15:15:23 [Arle]
no comments
15:15:27 [Arle]
issue-73?
15:15:27 [trackbot]
ISSUE-73 -- NIF comments -- open
15:15:27 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/73
15:16:33 [Arle]
no comments
15:17:05 [Arle]
Christian: Actually, Felix wants to reach out to Sebastian Hellman to clarify the status of NIF 1.0 and 2.0.
15:17:17 [Arle]
issue-74?
15:17:17 [trackbot]
ISSUE-74 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 WD-its20-20121206 - Section 1.1 (Relation to ITS 1.0 and New Principles) -- open
15:17:17 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/74
15:18:02 [Arle]
Christian: Before moving on, I haven't checked on the connection between canonical XML, Unicode normalization, and regular expression.
15:18:18 [Arle]
Shaun: In general, regex is a mess with respect to Unicode normalization.
15:18:48 [Arle]
..Example: E + combining acute, if U+00E9 matches is up to the regex engine and whether it handles normalization.
15:19:03 [Arle]
.. It is a huge mess. I would strongly recommend that people normalize their Unicode.
15:19:24 [Arle]
Christian: This is good information. Makes a stronger case for Unicode normalization.
15:20:21 [Arle]
Shaun: Would normally recommend normalization at every step. If there are chains where people don't do this, perhaps they have reasons. So I don't know if we say we MUST normalize, or if it is best practice.
15:20:38 [Arle]
.. I would like to hear from people who make non-normalized Unicode. I don't know who they are and if there are problems.
15:21:28 [Arle]
action: Shaun to draft text explaining importance of Unicode normalization and best practices on ISSUE-67
15:21:28 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-430 - Draft text explaining importance of Unicode normalization and best practices on ISSUE-67 [on Shaun McCance - due 2013-02-04].
15:22:02 [Arle]
Christian: Thanks, Shaun for doing that.
15:22:59 [Arle]
Karl: Should be only a note, and not include a MUST. In the complete standard, we should tell people how to do things, not MUST.
15:23:19 [Arle]
Arle: +1
15:23:27 [fsasaki]
+1 to karl
15:23:53 [omstefanov]
+1 to Karl, too, based on experience with UN legacy texts
15:24:55 [Arle]
No comments on issue-74
15:25:09 [Arle]
issue-75?
15:25:09 [trackbot]
ISSUE-75 -- Comments related to "domain" -- open
15:25:09 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/75
15:25:36 [Arle]
Christian: for issue-74, I've tried to talk to Dave and David, but haven't heard back yet.
15:26:29 [Arle]
Jörg, any comments on issue-75?
15:26:58 [Arle]
See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0022.html
15:27:27 [joerg]
I haven't got any feedback so far on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0143.html
15:27:32 [Arle]
Christian: Thanks to Jörg for his summaries and shepherding. His summaries are good and adequate. So far we only have resolved two of the three issues.
15:28:02 [Arle]
.. Only 2b has been resolved.
15:28:46 [Arle]
issue-76?
15:28:46 [trackbot]
ISSUE-76 -- clarification of "inconsistency" quality issue type needed -- open
15:28:46 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/76
15:28:55 [Arle]
Arle: I have to provide the text.
15:29:14 [Arle]
issue-77?
15:29:14 [trackbot]
ISSUE-77 -- Precedence of global rules in HTML if both links and inline rules with "script" are available -- closed
15:29:14 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/77
15:29:42 [Arle]
http://www.w3.org/2013/01/23-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04
15:30:38 [fsasaki]
Hi all, I have to leave, please write any complaint in irc, will look later :-)
15:31:12 [pnietoca]
Yes Jirka was the sheperd
15:31:16 [pnietoca]
see http://www.w3.org/2013/01/21-mlw-lt-minutes.html
15:31:46 [Arle]
issue-78?
15:31:46 [trackbot]
ISSUE-78 -- I18N-ISSUE-203: Use of rel values in HTML -- open
15:31:46 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/78
15:32:16 [Arle]
No comments.
15:32:25 [Arle]
issue-79?
15:32:25 [trackbot]
ISSUE-79 -- I18N-ISSUE-204: Use of namespaces and HTML -- open
15:32:25 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/79
15:33:07 [Arle]
Olaf-Michael: Sounds like a simple clarification.
15:33:11 [Arle]
Arle: +1
15:33:21 [Arle]
issue-80?
15:33:21 [trackbot]
ISSUE-80 -- I18N-ISSUE-205: Examples of html markup in section 6 -- open
15:33:21 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/80
15:34:02 [Arle]
No comments
15:34:06 [Arle]
issue-81?
15:34:06 [trackbot]
ISSUE-81 -- I18N-ISSUE-207: Term data category and dfn element -- open
15:34:06 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/81
15:35:10 [Marcis]
I think it was mentioned that this should be in a best practice document
15:35:25 [Arle]
Arle: We would suggest mappings, but not be mandatory.
15:35:56 [chriLi]
http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#associating-its-with-existing-markup
15:36:08 [Marcis]
The mapping goes one way but not the other way
15:36:08 [Arle]
Christian: Maybe this explanation could be in a similar place where we had it for ITS 1.0.
15:37:27 [Arle]
Marcis: If I recall, we discussed that the definition element is a sub-category of term, since you need a definition in HTML content, and only then can you use <dfn>, so we left with the understanding that it is in best-practice and not in the normative section.
15:37:53 [Arle]
Christian: Old section 5 was non-normative.
15:38:14 [Arle]
Arle: Question of prominence.
15:38:50 [chriLi]
s/non-normative/normative
15:39:57 [Arle]
Action: Arle to discuss with Felix the best location for this mapping list on issue-81
15:39:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-431 - Discuss with Felix the best location for this mapping list on issue-81 [on Arle Lommel - due 2013-02-04].
15:40:31 [Arle]
Christian: For ITS 1.0, we used "associating" with existing markup. May be clearer with mapping, to resolve issues of bidirectionally.
15:40:42 [Arle]
Arle: "Associating" is fine.
15:41:04 [Arle]
issue-82
15:41:04 [trackbot]
ISSUE-82 -- I18N-ISSUE-208: Mapping domains to nothing -- open
15:41:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/82
15:41:55 [Arle]
no comments.
15:41:58 [Arle]
issue-83?
15:41:58 [trackbot]
ISSUE-83 -- Notes on loc quality issue section -- open
15:41:58 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/83
15:43:18 [Arle]
Arle: Can't point to EN-15038. Out of scope. TS-11669 is more relevant, defines expectations about translation.
15:44:08 [Arle]
.. Recommendation was to address quality in framework of TS-11669. That is be listed as an example of what the quality profile might point to, at a minimum.
15:44:47 [Arle]
Christian: I still don't get the difference between metrics and expectations, metrics, etc.
15:46:25 [Arle]
.. Explained some about it.
15:46:53 [Arle]
Christian: I think it changes the semantics of the pointer. IF you use parameters instead of metric.
15:47:13 [Arle]
Action: Arle to draft out the differences in more detail on ISSUE-83.
15:47:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-432 - Draft out the differences in more detail on ISSUE-83. [on Arle Lommel - due 2013-02-04].
15:47:33 [Arle]
Christian: For buyers, you would point to an SLA.
15:47:41 [Arle]
.. We need to clarify what is here.
15:48:15 [Arle]
issue-84?
15:48:15 [trackbot]
ISSUE-84 -- translate ITS 2.0 requirements w.r.t Indian [Indic] languages -- open
15:48:15 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/84
15:49:13 [Arle]
Arle: Dave is taking care of this. We rejected most of them as out of scope.
15:49:36 [Arle]
Olaf-Michael: Does anyone in the WG have experience with Indic languages?
15:49:43 [Arle]
Serge: We translate into those languages?
15:49:53 [Arle]
s/languages?/languages./
15:50:24 [chriLi]
Aside: We got input which possibly overlaps already for ITS 1.0 (see http://www.w3.org/wiki/Its0908LinguisticMarkup)
15:50:30 [Arle]
Ankit: I have this experience. The issues they raise are valid, but as Dave replied, I agree.
15:51:05 [Arle]
Christian: We did not include that into our requirements for 1.0.
15:51:36 [Arle]
issue-85?
15:51:36 [trackbot]
ISSUE-85 -- NLP Interchange Format (NIF) - 1.0/2.0, Canonical XML, Unicode Normalization Forms -- closed
15:51:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/85
15:51:59 [Arle]
Duplicate of ISSUE-73
15:52:04 [Arle]
issue-86?
15:52:04 [trackbot]
ISSUE-86 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-209: Implementation commitment -- open
15:52:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/86
15:53:16 [Arle]
Arle: This one is unsettled at present.
15:53:19 [Arle]
No comments.
15:53:23 [Arle]
issue-87?
15:53:23 [trackbot]
ISSUE-87 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-210: Whitespace in ruby example -- open
15:53:23 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/87
15:53:37 [Arle]
No comments
15:53:40 [Arle]
issue-88?
15:53:40 [trackbot]
ISSUE-88 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-211: Quote element in HTML [should be cite, q, or blockquote] -- open
15:53:40 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/88
15:54:02 [Arle]
No comments.
15:54:05 [Arle]
issue-89?
15:54:05 [trackbot]
ISSUE-89 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-212: HTML5 in the ITS spec -- open
15:54:05 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/89
15:54:53 [Arle]
Arle: To clarify we mean HTML5, not all HTML
15:54:56 [Arle]
No comments
15:55:01 [Arle]
issue-90?
15:55:01 [trackbot]
ISSUE-90 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-214: directionality should be made normative, with informative additions -- open
15:55:01 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/90
15:55:42 [Arle]
Arle: Not in minutes from Prague.
15:55:48 [Arle]
issue-91?
15:55:48 [trackbot]
ISSUE-91 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-215: Parts of Ruby section should be removed -- open
15:55:48 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/91
15:55:56 [Arle]
issue-92?
15:55:56 [trackbot]
ISSUE-92 -- Comment on ITS 2.0 specification WD, i18n-ISSUE-216: Locale filter note -- open
15:55:56 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/92
15:56:20 [Arle]
Arle: accepted. Moving text around in editorial fashion.
15:56:22 [Arle]
No comments.
15:56:26 [Arle]
issue-93?
15:56:26 [trackbot]
ISSUE-93 -- Case-insensitivity mode for predefined tokens undefined; should be ASCII-case-insensitivity -- closed
15:56:26 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/93
15:56:47 [Arle]
No comments.
15:57:46 [Arle]
Arle: review minutes: http://www.w3.org/2013/01/23-mlw-lt-minutes.html and http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-mlw-lt-minutes.html and send comments
15:58:06 [Arle]
Topic: AOB
15:58:28 [Arle]
Olaf-Michael: What's the schedule?
15:58:51 [joerg]
joerg has left #mlw-lt
15:59:00 [Arle]
Arle: You can attend one or both per week.
15:59:28 [Arle]
Christian: We have a tighter meeting schedule to drive the schedule.
15:59:52 [Arle]
Arle: Please raise issues in meetings you can attend.
16:00:17 [Arle]
.. Also, in the next meeting, Felix will explain the repeat last-call procedure.
16:02:13 [Arle]
Rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html Arle
16:03:12 [Arle]
rrsagent, make minutes public
16:03:12 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', Arle. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:04:06 [fsasaki]
fsasaki has joined #mlw-lt
16:04:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
16:05:50 [Des]
Des has joined #mlw-lt
16:06:56 [fsasaki]
rrsagent, bye
16:06:56 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-actions.rdf :
16:06:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Shaun to draft text explaining importance of Unicode normalization and best practices on ISSUE-67 [1]
16:06:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-irc#T15-21-28
16:06:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Arle to discuss with Felix the best location for this mapping list on issue-81 [2]
16:06:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-irc#T15-39-57
16:06:56 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Arle to draft out the differences in more detail on ISSUE-83. [3]
16:06:56 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-mlw-lt-irc#T15-47-13
16:07:00 [Milan]
Milan has left #mlw-lt