17:58:21 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:58:21 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc 17:58:23 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:58:23 Zakim has joined #ua 17:58:25 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 17:58:25 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 17:58:26 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 17:58:26 Date: 24 January 2013 17:58:29 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:58:36 +Jeanne 17:59:35 kford has joined #ua 18:00:34 zakim, code? 18:00:36 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), kford 18:01:01 +[Microsoft] 18:02:51 sharper has joined #ua 18:02:56 +Greg_Lowney 18:03:14 Greg has joined #ua 18:03:32 allanj has joined #ua 18:04:06 +Jim_Allan 18:04:34 +??P9 18:04:38 zakim, ??P9 is sharper 18:04:38 +sharper; got it 18:04:43 zakim, who is here? 18:04:43 On the phone I see Jeanne, [Microsoft], Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, sharper 18:04:45 On IRC I see allanj, Greg, sharper, kford, Zakim, RRSAgent, jeanne, trackbot 18:05:27 +Kim_Patch 18:07:55 rrsagent, make minutes 18:07:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-minutes.html kford 18:08:01 scribe: kford 18:08:23 UAWG review of First Public Working Draft of IndieUI: Events needed http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-indie-ui-events-20130122/ 18:08:33 scribe: sharper 18:08:42 agenda+ UAWG review of First Public Working Draft of IndieUI: Events needed http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-indie-ui-events-20130122/ 18:09:07 zakim, take up item 1 18:09:07 agendum 1. "UAWG review of First Public Working Draft of IndieUI: Events needed http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-indie-ui-events-20130122/" taken up [from allanj] 18:09:07 Agenda+ conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc) 18:09:20 Agenda+ resolving @@ from the draft. 18:09:33 Agenda+ definition of levels 18:09:50 regrets+ Richards_Jan 18:10:35 JS: INDIEUI Events working draft published - now have a dependancy on UAWG to prevent overlap 18:10:53 JS: There group formed to look at modality independance 18:11:22 JS: They would like us to look at this. 18:11:37 KimPatch has joined #ua 18:11:49 JS: Normally they don't have dependancies to other WAI groups - at our suggestion 18:12:03 JS: Lets look at it - and decide on responces 18:12:48 Overview -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/indieui 18:13:03 regrets: Jan 18:13:06 Document -> http://www.w3.org/TR/indie-ui-events/ 18:13:26 Blog -> http://www.w3.org/QA/2013/01/indie-ui_events_fpwd.html 18:13:29 Latest editor's draft - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20130108 18:14:37 +EricHansen 18:14:53 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130108/ 18:16:47 zakim, agenda? 18:16:47 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 18:16:49 1. UAWG review of First Public Working Draft of IndieUI: Events needed http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-indie-ui-events-20130122/ [from allanj] 18:16:49 2. conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc) [from allanj] 18:16:49 3. resolving @@ from the draft. [from allanj] 18:16:49 4. definition of levels [from allanj] 18:16:59 zakim, close item 1 18:16:59 agendum 1, UAWG review of First Public Working Draft of IndieUI: Events needed http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-indie-ui-events-20130122/, closed 18:17:00 zakim, take up item 2 18:17:02 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:17:02 2. conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc) [from allanj] 18:17:02 agendum 2. "conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc)" taken up [from allanj] 18:17:15 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0003.html 18:17:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0010.html 18:17:32 http://www.w3.org/2013/01/22-ua-minutes.html - new thoughts 18:17:54 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0012.html - Use cases 18:19:37 JA: First link Greg Wrote / 2nd link responses / 3rd link / JA-JS discussion / Link 4 is the cleaned up version. 18:21:25 JS: 2nd is full featured missing some criteria but could conform with extensions 18:21:39 3rd partial features which don't conform 18:22:01 4th stand alone applications 18:22:44 Use Cases: (Full Conformance?) 18:22:45 1) full featured user agents who conform (full regular conformance) 18:22:45 2) full featured user agents who are missing a few SC, but could conform 18:22:45 with external extensions 18:22:46 3) limited user agents who are constrained by the type of content they 18:22:46 access -- e.g. media players 18:22:53 4) standalone software that has a user agent component (e.g. Microsoft 18:22:53 Word). 18:23:03 Use Cases: (Partial Conformance?) 18:23:03 5) Mobile apps with constrained content -- e.g. the "American Airlines" 18:23:03 app. 18:23:20 6) User agent component 18:23:34 7) User agent component - a full featured browser or player that is 18:23:34 missing some SC but doesn't want to state a specific extension that 18:23:34 could complete it. 18:23:41 8) full or limited user agents who are dependent on the underlying 18:23:41 platform for some SC. 18:24:04 s/8)/8 ) 18:24:25 JS: 1st = covered 18:25:16 2nd = propose stop trying to cater to the browsers - If it can be done with extensions then they should include it 18:27:36 EH: claimant is defining the uA and the conformance claimed pertains to their defn of the UA - assumption has been that if they say that the UA + this extension is what is being evaluated then that is what will be evaluated 18:28:15 EH: if we can state up from what flexibility the claimant has in defining the boundaries of the UA 18:28:24 EH: makes things easier now. 18:28:56 KP: if they provide instructions to extension then I've been assuming this is what will be evaluated. 18:29:05 s/propose stop trying to cater to the browsers - If it can be done with extensions then they should include it/Stop trying to provide partial conformance to the browsers by allowing outside extensions 18:29:38 EH: shouldn't matter who owns that extension - then that is what is evaluated 18:29:47 KP: good extensions should count 18:30:35 EH: Licensing arrangements are irrelevant to conformance - their claim is via any number of defined inclusions or exclusions 18:31:56 JS: I could be talked into that - not adding a whole new structure - claimant defines what parts is their user agent. Defining the boundary of the UA. 18:38:28 EH: discussion of the boundaries of the UA - around JS: #2 18:41:53 JS: will be the boundary - what is an extension and what is an assistive technology 18:45:06 EH: we don't ask for testing but my assumption is that it has to work together 18:46:07 JS: We will have to test for w3c policy 18:46:42 JS: we have to show 2 implementations of each success criteria. 18:52:56 scribe: jallan 18:52:56 -sharper 18:58:24 Three separate discussions: (1) what products needs to be tested against UAAG20; (2) how to test the product against each SC, and what specific answers are allowed e.g. pass, fail, not applicable; (3) how to summarize those into a conformance claim, including conformance levels, partial conformance claims if we allow them, whether you have to include specific add-ons, etc. 18:58:55 s/include specific/cite specific/ 18:58:59 ja: tries to summarize 18:59:30 js provided use cases 19:00:18 discussion of conformance, progress toward conformance, but must set some bar 19:01:50 gl: partial conformance, pass 75% of A, 53% of AA, and 23% of AAA 19:02:18 kp: should list what is not met 19:02:20 rrsagent, make minutes 19:02:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-minutes.html kford 19:04:15 js: percentages are tough. and contentious. 150 preferences, how to weight fully met, some trivial thing missed vs. an important item is missed. 19:05:06 Jeanne, I didn't mean to suggest that they measure what percentage of their product complies with a particular SC, but rather what percentage of the SC their entire product complies with. 19:07:23 And of course the actual answers for all SC would be included in the claim. 19:07:48 zakim, close item 2 19:07:48 agendum 2, conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc), closed 19:07:50 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 19:07:50 3. resolving @@ from the draft. [from allanj] 19:08:41 zakim, open item 3 19:08:41 agendum 3. "resolving @@ from the draft." taken up [from allanj] 19:10:27 2.1.1 jim sent these before the new year 19:10:41 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20130108/ 19:12:15 2.1.1, 2.11.2, and 4.1.2 all have @@ in the Related Resources sections. 19:12:18 Eric has joined #ua 19:12:25 2.11.2 editor task 19:13:05 4.1.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0006.html 19:13:43 action: jeanne to update 4.1.2 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0006.html 19:13:43 Created ACTION-792 - Update 4.1.2 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0006.html [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31]. 19:14:21 2.1.1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0056.html 19:14:41 rrsagent, make minutes 19:14:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-minutes.html allanj 19:14:56 rrsagend, set logs public 19:15:04 rrsagent, set logs public 19:15:46 -Kim_Patch 19:17:08 action: jeanne to update 2.1.1 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0056.html 19:17:08 Created ACTION-793 - Update 2.1.1 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0056.html [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31]. 19:19:00 action: jeanne to update the link in 2.11.2 to Latest HTML5 19:19:00 Created ACTION-794 - Update the link in 2.11.2 to Latest HTML5 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31]. 19:20:32 topic: glossary 19:21:15 jeanne will delete the terms. 19:23:23 action: jeanne to update the glossary to move all unused items to the end. 19:23:23 Created ACTION-795 - Update the glossary to move all unused items to the end. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31]. 19:24:55 the @@ will be removed when we formally publish. jeanne will move them to the end of the document. 19:25:45 GLOBALLY - 1.4.1 need to write a definition. applies to the UA, not a specific page or particular content 19:26:50 Globally: a global setting is one that applies to the entire user agent or all content being rendered by it, rather than to a specific feature within the user agent or a specific document being viewed. 19:28:34 A global command is one that is available regardless of what content the user is currently viewing. 19:29:51 We use "global setting"/"global option", "global volume", "global command"/"global control". 19:30:17 Also "globally set". 19:31:34 Those break down into global settings/options/volume (and globally set), global commands/controls. 19:32:17 Might want to normalize the phrasing (e.g. change the one occurance of global option to global setting) in an editorial pass. 19:32:44 action: jeanne to add definition for global - Globally: a global setting is one that applies to the entire user agent or all content being rendered by it, rather than to a specific feature within the user agent or a specific document being viewed. 19:32:44 A global command is one that is available regardless of what content the user is currently viewing 19:32:44 Created ACTION-796 - Add definition for global - Globally: a global setting is one that applies to the entire user agent or all content being rendered by it, rather than to a specific feature within the user agent or a specific document being viewed. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31]. 19:33:50 action: jeanne to normalize the phrase "global settings" in intent for 1.1.2 and example for 2.9.1 19:33:50 Created ACTION-797 - Normalize the phrase "global settings" in intent for 1.1.2 and example for 2.9.1 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31]. 19:34:05 -EricHansen 19:34:12 -Greg_Lowney 19:34:30 -Jeanne 19:34:45 add to agenda for next week - review Eric's comments 19:37:36 rrsagent, make minutes 19:37:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-minutes.html allanj 19:38:56 zakim, please part 19:38:56 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jeanne, [Microsoft], Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, sharper, Kim_Patch, EricHansen 19:38:56 Zakim has left #ua 19:39:52 rrsagent, make minutes 19:39:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-minutes.html allanj 19:40:05 rrsagent, please part 19:40:05 I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-actions.rdf : 19:40:05 ACTION: jeanne to update 4.1.2 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0006.html [1] 19:40:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-13-43 19:40:05 ACTION: jeanne to update 2.1.1 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0056.html [2] 19:40:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-17-08 19:40:05 ACTION: jeanne to update the link in 2.11.2 to Latest HTML5 [3] 19:40:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-19-00 19:40:05 ACTION: jeanne to update the glossary to move all unused items to the end. [4] 19:40:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-23-23 19:40:05 ACTION: jeanne to add definition for global - Globally: a global setting is one that applies to the entire user agent or all content being rendered by it, rather than to a specific feature within the user agent or a specific document being viewed. [5] 19:40:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-32-44 19:40:05 ACTION: jeanne to normalize the phrase "global settings" in intent for 1.1.2 and example for 2.9.1 [6] 19:40:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-33-50