14:08:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:08:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-rdfa-irc
14:08:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:08:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
14:08:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 52 minutes
14:08:51 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
14:08:51 <trackbot> Date: 17 January 2013
14:27:31 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #rdfa
14:31:56 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #rdfa
14:58:05 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #rdfa
14:59:38 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
14:59:45 <Zakim> +??P29
14:59:51 <manu> zakim, I am ??P29
14:59:52 <Zakim> +manu; got it
15:00:52 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdfa
15:01:21 <Zakim> +??P36
15:01:27 <niklasl> zakim, I am ??P36
15:01:28 <Zakim> +niklasl; got it
15:01:39 <gkellogg> what's the dial-in phone #?
15:02:00 <manu> zakim, code?
15:02:00 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), manu
15:02:11 <manu> gkellogg: ^^^
15:02:17 <Zakim> +scor
15:02:35 <scor> scor has joined #rdfa
15:03:03 <Zakim> +gkellogg
15:03:55 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:05:30 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:05:31 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:05:31 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:06:17 <Zakim> +Shane_McCarron
15:06:18 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2013Jan/0048.html
15:06:25 <ShaneM> zakim, I am Shane_McCarron
15:06:25 <Zakim> ok, ShaneM, I now associate you with Shane_McCarron
15:06:57 <manu> Manu: Any updates or changes to the agenda?
15:07:07 <ivan> scribenick: ivan
15:07:11 <ivan> scribe: nick
15:09:27 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-143: Prefixes too complicated
15:09:29 <ivan> scribe: ivan
15:09:33 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/143
15:09:50 <ivan> manu: we have now asked for feedbacks from Tab twice
15:09:54 <ivan> … no responses
15:09:59 <ivan> … the wg was clear about it
15:10:15 <ivan> … we are going to raise a warning whenever a prefix is overwritten
15:10:29 <ivan> … I think that is all we are going on this issue
15:10:31 <ShaneM> any prefix?
15:10:37 <ShaneM> or just an initial context prefix?
15:11:01 <ivan> ivan: any
15:11:03 <ShaneM> thanks
15:11:29 <ivan> manu: whenever you overwrite a prefix a warning is issued
15:11:44 <ivan> … I will add text until the issue is closed
15:12:23 <ivan> Manu: the wg decides to close this issue
15:12:58 <ivan> (everybody is happy)
15:13:04 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-144: Add @itemref-like attribute
15:13:11 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/144
15:13:13 <ivan> issue-144?
15:13:13 <trackbot> ISSUE-144 -- Add an @itemref-like attribute to RDFa -- open
15:13:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/144
15:13:40 <ivan> manu: I changed the document, people did not like my changes, I reverted to Gregg's version
15:14:12 <ivan> … when gregg wrote there was an assumption of having an object with rdfa:Prototype
15:14:12 <ivan> … and then another part would have a rdfa:ref
15:14:21 <ivan> … it would then 'imports' all the statements of the prototype
15:14:39 <ivan> … there are some rules/pattern matching in the document to define it
15:14:59 <ivan> Manu: I removed the prototyp stuff because I felt it was too meta
15:15:17 <ivan> … but as Niklas said it is actually good if people know that is meta
15:15:22 <gkellogg> s/prototyp/prototype/
15:15:35 <ivan> … I also removed some of the bnodes in the examples
15:15:46 <ivan> … we did not need to do that to demonstrate the functionality
15:16:17 <ivan> Manu: we are reverting to things that people had objections to
15:16:24 <ivan> … any other comments
15:16:32 <ivan> gregg: we should decide the terms we use
15:16:43 <ivan> … rdfa:include or rdfa:ref ?
15:16:55 <ivan> … right now I feel that it is a fairly complex feature
15:17:11 <ivan> … the property copying and microdata side by side, the mdata feels simpler
15:17:45 <ivan> niklasl: what is happening from and abstract point of view?
15:18:00 <ivan> … there is a product and a general part of the product
15:18:21 <ivan> gregg : rfda:ref is useful if one thinks of a protype being pulled in
15:18:28 <ivan> … include is more what we are doing
15:18:47 <ivan> … but include has an include pattern in mdata, and what we do is very different
15:18:55 <scor> zakim, mute ivan
15:18:56 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
15:19:01 <ivan> … we do not inherit the the types from the calling point
15:19:16 <ivan> manu: I am not sure web developers would really see these different
15:19:23 <ivan> … so include might be o.k. as well
15:19:47 <ivan> … people might look at it with fresh eye
15:20:05 <ivan> gregg: include in, eg, mformats is done on a syntax level
15:20:17 <ivan> manu: clone, copy, … ?
15:20:48 <ivan> niklasl: I think it is better if it is declarative and not imperative
15:20:58 <ivan> gregg: we are on bike shedding… :-)
15:21:20 <ivan> niklas: are we waiting for feedbacks? Ie, we cannot be finalize it
15:22:20 <ivan> manu: are there any objection adding this feature?
15:22:49 <ivan> niklas: I am a bit hesitant, sure, it could go in
15:23:22 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
15:23:22 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
15:24:31 <ivan> zakim, mute me
15:24:31 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
15:25:23 <manu> PROPOSAL: Add the Property Copying feature into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 specification.
15:25:29 <ivan> +1
15:25:30 <gkellogg> +1
15:25:31 <manu> +1
15:25:35 <niklasl> +0.75 unless feedback isn't skeptic/negative (then it shouldn't fly)
15:25:38 <scor> +1
15:25:41 <ivan> q+
15:25:48 <ivan> ack ivan
15:25:49 <manu> ack ivan
15:25:50 <manu> +1
15:26:41 <gkellogg> ivan: consider rdfa:copy and rdfa:Pattern
15:27:04 <ivan> rdfa:pattern, rdfa:Pattern
15:27:25 <manu> RESOLVED: Add the Property Copying feature into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 specification as an at-risk feature.
15:27:31 <ShaneM> +!
15:27:33 <ShaneM> +1
15:27:42 <ivan> manu: after discussions rdfa:copy and rdfa:Pattern have it
15:27:43 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-145: @content override @value
15:27:53 <ivan> q+
15:27:54 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/145
15:27:59 <manu> ack ivan
15:28:36 <gkellogg> q+ @datatype though
15:28:51 <manu> ivan: @value is not used in HTML5 in any meaningful way, the issue isn't @content overriding @value... it's whether to do @value processing at all.
15:28:57 <ivan> ivan: the issue if there is any value processing at all
15:28:58 <manu> ack
15:29:01 <manu> ack @dattype
15:29:12 <manu> ack @dattype, though
15:29:18 <manu> ack @datatype, though
15:29:26 <ivan> gregg: there is a parallel issue on whether @datatype takes precedence over @content
15:29:33 <ivan> gregg: wrong
15:29:40 <manu> q?
15:29:42 <manu> q-
15:29:42 <ivan> gregg: @content takes precedence over @datatype
15:29:51 <ivan> (all): yes
15:29:54 <manu> ack "@datatype, though"
15:30:39 <manu> PROPOSAL: Do not process the @value attribute in HTML+RDFa 1.1.
15:30:41 <manu> +1
15:30:41 <ivan> +1
15:30:46 <gkellogg> +1
15:30:51 <ShaneM> +1
15:30:59 <scor> +1
15:31:02 <niklasl> +0 I liked the effect of picking it up from <input> but I cannot argue for it with evidence of its need....
15:31:08 <manu> RESOLVED: Do not process the @value attribute in HTML+RDFa 1.1.
15:31:42 <manu> PROPOSAL: @content overrides @datetime when found on the same element.
15:31:47 <ivan> +1
15:31:48 <ShaneM> +1
15:31:49 <manu> +1
15:31:54 <gkellogg> +1
15:31:59 <niklasl> +1
15:32:19 <scor> +1
15:32:20 <manu> RESOLVED: @content overrides @datetime when found on the same element.
15:32:40 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-146: HTML5+RDFa needs rule for implied @about="" on head/body
15:32:42 <ivan> ISSUE-146?
15:32:42 <trackbot> ISSUE-146 -- HTML5+RDFa needs rule for implied @about="" on head/body -- open
15:32:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/146
15:33:11 <ivan> manu: we had a discussion whether html+rdfa for a implied about on head/body
15:33:22 <ivan> … we resolved not to do that in rdfa 1.1
15:33:27 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/117
15:33:28 <ivan> zakim, mute me
15:33:28 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
15:33:34 <gkellogg> q+
15:34:12 <ivan> Manu: the reason we impled @about was because the use case was a corner case
15:34:12 <ivan> … we were making the processing rules more complicated for a corner case use case
15:34:31 <ivan> … the root element has the url of the document as an @about for any xml element
15:34:39 <ivan> … we could then remove it from head and body
15:34:57 <niklasl> .. (or empty @resource (in Lite))
15:34:58 <ivan> … caveat is that the @typeof alone would generate a bnode
15:35:02 <manu> ack gkellogg
15:35:09 <ivan> gregg: my memory is different
15:35:16 <ivan> .. we had a rule for 1.0
15:35:37 <ivan> … the problem was that if somebody set a different base, and this would be overritten by that
15:36:00 <ivan> … we therefore used the special rule referring the parent object for the resource
15:36:07 <ivan> … and what we decided to do
15:36:17 <ivan> … that is the language in xhtml+rdfa 1.1
15:36:21 <ivan> q+
15:36:28 <ivan> ack @datatype
15:36:31 <ivan> ack though
15:37:05 <ivan> ShaneM: there is nothing in the general rule set
15:37:24 <ivan> gregg: the difference here was to use the parent object
15:37:34 <ivan> … that was what the group intended
15:37:42 <manu> ack ivan
15:37:43 <ivan> ack ivan
15:39:03 <ShaneM> q+ to disagree about process with regard to XHTML+RDFa
15:40:05 <ivan> ack ShaneM
15:40:13 <manu> ack Shane_McCarron
15:40:13 <Zakim> Shane_McCarron, you wanted to disagree about process with regard to XHTML+RDFa
15:41:40 <ivan> manu: it seems that the sentiment is to adopt the language from xhtml+rdfa
15:41:58 <tinkster> tinkster has joined #rdfa
15:44:29 <manu> PROPOSAL: Add text matching XHTML+RDFa 1.1 for special processing of HEAD and BODY into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 spec.
15:44:31 <ivan> +1
15:44:32 <manu> +1
15:44:34 <niklasl> +1 for consistency with XHTML 1.1 (I prefer just adding an explicit @resource along with the @typeof)
15:44:39 <gkellogg> +1
15:44:50 <scor> +1
15:45:02 <ShaneM> +1
15:45:05 <manu> RESOLVED: Add text matching XHTML+RDFa 1.1 for special processing of HEAD and BODY into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 spec.
15:45:50 <ivan> manu: we are hopefully done all the issues!
15:45:58 <ivan> … we can have a telcon next week
15:46:12 <ivan> .. any issues we have to solve before last call?
15:47:37 <ivan> … I will prepare the document this week end,
15:47:49 <ivan> …. hopefully people can read it before thu
15:47:55 <ivan> … we will do a vote by email
15:48:46 <manu> Topic: PER for RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa 1.1
15:49:17 <manu> shanem: Are there any PER dependencies for the HTML+RDFa 1.1 spec?
15:49:22 <manu> manu: No, I don't think so.
15:49:35 <manu> ivan: We should do the PERs later.
15:50:02 <manu> ivan: We should do the PRs and PERs together.
15:50:58 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:51:00 <Zakim> -gkellogg
15:51:00 <Zakim> -Shane_McCarron
15:51:02 <Zakim> -manu
15:51:04 <Zakim> -niklasl
15:51:09 <Zakim> -scor
15:51:10 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended
15:51:10 <Zakim> Attendees were manu, niklasl, scor, gkellogg, Ivan, Shane_McCarron
15:51:19 <niklasl> niklasl has left #rdfa
15:51:21 <manu> and hope you have a very happy rest of your birthday scor! :)
15:52:31 <manu> rrsagent, make logs public
15:56:12 <manu> trackbot: bye
15:56:12 <trackbot> trackbot has left #rdfa
15:56:19 <manu> rrsagent, bye
15:56:19 <RRSAgent> I see no action items