14:57:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eval
14:57:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-eval-irc
14:57:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:57:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #eval
14:57:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3825
14:57:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:53 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference
14:57:53 <trackbot> Date: 17 January 2013
14:58:49 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
14:58:58 <Zakim> + +31.30.239.aaaa
14:59:03 <MartijnHoutepen> Zakim, aaaa is me
14:59:03 <Zakim> +MartijnHoutepen; got it
14:59:49 <MartijnHoutepen> Zakim, agenda?
14:59:49 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:59:57 <ericvelleman> ericvelleman has joined #eval
15:00:16 <MartijnHoutepen> agenda+ Welcome
15:00:17 <richard> richard has joined #eval
15:00:32 <MartijnHoutepen> agenda+ Latest version of Disposition of Comments
15:00:47 <MartijnHoutepen> agenda+ Other issues
15:01:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:31 <Zakim> +Shadi
15:02:00 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #eval
15:02:22 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #eval
15:02:26 <Zakim> + +1.978.443.aabb
15:02:33 <Zakim> + +31.30.239.aacc
15:02:43 <Kathy> zakim, aabb is Kathy
15:02:44 <Zakim> +Kathy; got it
15:03:01 <Zakim> + +49.404.318.aadd
15:03:08 <ericvelleman> zakim, aacc is Eric
15:03:09 <Zakim> +Eric; got it
15:03:19 <Sarah_Swierenga> Sarah_Swierenga has joined #eval
15:03:20 <Liz> Liz has joined #eval
15:03:25 <Detlev> Zakim, aadd is Detlev
15:03:25 <Zakim> +Detlev; got it
15:04:02 <Kathy> zakim, mute me
15:04:02 <Zakim> Kathy should now be muted
15:04:03 <Zakim> + +1.301.975.aaee
15:04:12 <MartijnHoutepen> Zakim, mute me
15:04:12 <Zakim> MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
15:04:20 <Zakim> + +1.517.432.aaff
15:04:29 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:04:40 <Kathy> Happy New Year!
15:04:44 <Detlev> Zakim, mute me
15:04:44 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:04:57 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #eval
15:05:23 <Zakim> +MoeKraft
15:05:32 <richard> happy new
15:05:38 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is richard
15:05:38 <Zakim> +richard; got it
15:05:52 <shadi> scribe: richard
15:06:37 <richard> Eric: welcome
15:06:51 <MartijnHoutepen> Zakim, agenda?
15:06:51 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:06:53 <Zakim> 1. Welcome [from MartijnHoutepen]
15:06:53 <Zakim> 2. Latest version of Disposition of Comments [from MartijnHoutepen]
15:06:53 <Zakim> 3. Other issues [from MartijnHoutepen]
15:06:56 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #eval
15:07:04 <MoeKraft> nope
15:07:16 <MartijnHoutepen> Zakim, take up next
15:07:16 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from MartijnHoutepen]
15:07:32 <Kathy> snowy and cold in Boston
15:07:45 <MoeKraft> ditto : )
15:07:51 <ericvelleman> snow in Netherlands, Zeist also
15:09:08 <MartijnHoutepen> Zakim, take up next
15:09:08 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Latest version of Disposition of Comments" taken up [from MartijnHoutepen]
15:09:08 <ericvelleman> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20130117>
15:09:55 <richard> Topi: disposition of comments
15:10:13 <richard> Topic: Disposition of comments
15:10:37 <richard> Eric: Yellow places are review notes
15:12:19 <richard> Eric: We can now review this and I will send out next version for review before-hand
15:13:00 <richard> Eric: We can work through, I will make changes for next meeting
15:13:50 <shadi> q+
15:13:54 <ericvelleman> q?
15:14:02 <shadi> ack me
15:15:18 <richard> Shadi: Not sure if policy makers actually do evaluation - they benefit from evaluations - they commission
15:15:25 <Ryladog> q+
15:16:19 <richard> Shadi: 1.2 section -I think we agreed purpose not target audience so we describe usage
15:17:09 <ericvelleman> q?
15:17:13 <richard> Shadi: Perhaps change sentence to be more functional ??
15:17:28 <MartijnHoutepen> q- Ryladog
15:18:09 <richard> Katie: In large orgs - sometimes policy maker is also the evaluator.
15:18:52 <richard> Eric: Perhapd we should take these people out as they are already in 1.2.
15:19:12 <ericvelleman> q?
15:19:13 <Sarah_Swierenga> I like the idea of adding this context
15:19:16 <richard> Eric: Do we accept Shadi's suggestion
15:19:25 <Sarah_Swierenga> +1
15:19:28 <MoeKraft> +1
15:19:44 <Liz> +1
15:19:46 <MartijnHoutepen> +1
15:19:48 <richard> Eric: I will try to do this in next iteration
15:20:29 <shadi> [[There are many situations in which conformance evaluation of existing websites to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0 is necessary. This includes for ...]]
15:20:41 <richard> Eric: Next is scope of this document
15:21:40 <shadi> http://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20121213&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20130117
15:21:47 <richard> Eric: Tried to find solution for a load of comments - see changes in dif doc
15:21:55 <MartijnHoutepen> http://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20120915&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20130117
15:22:13 <MartijnHoutepen> compared to an earlier version
15:23:09 <richard> Eric: Can we check later and review before next meeting (homework!)
15:23:21 <ericvelleman> q?
15:23:43 <shadi> http://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2FWCAG-EM&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20130117
15:23:58 <richard> Topic: Definition of common functionality
15:24:51 <richard> Eric: Changed and should be closed now.
15:25:41 <richard> Shadi: Try looking at public draft
15:26:48 <Detlev> q+
15:27:02 <richard> Topic: 2.1.1 Web applications
15:27:17 <Detlev> ack me
15:28:01 <MartijnHoutepen> q+
15:28:58 <richard> Detlev: Noticed that - beginning of section 2 - overall "performance" - sounds as if methodology will not work for poor quality sites
15:29:13 <richard> Eric: Send me an email
15:30:50 <Detlev> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20130117#applications
15:31:33 <shadi> q+
15:31:38 <richard> Detlev: Can it be rephrased to make it more general
15:31:53 <ericvelleman> q?
15:31:56 <MartijnHoutepen> ack me
15:32:00 <Detlev> Zakim, mute me
15:32:00 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:33:05 <Detlev> agree - which can go
15:33:32 <MartijnHoutepen> zakim, mute me
15:33:32 <Zakim> MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
15:33:32 <Detlev> …should be included as candidate for sampling.
15:33:39 <richard> Martijn: Third sentence - use of "which" might be confusing
15:34:23 <MoeKraft> I agree. Which adds some confusion
15:34:56 <Detlev> q+
15:35:49 <shadi> q-
15:35:50 <Detlev> ack me
15:35:59 <richard> Shadi: Sampling functionality - not feasable to check every function - but complete processes needs care - concerned that evaluators get to decide - each will do it differently - not a trivial thing
15:36:27 <shadi> q+
15:37:14 <richard> Detlev: Do information boxes that evolve (appear) form part of the process.
15:37:17 <shadi> ack me
15:37:27 <Detlev> Zakim, mute me
15:37:27 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:37:43 <Ryladog> q+
15:37:57 <richard> Shadi: Strictly WCAG says EVERYTHING on teh page needs to be valid
15:39:25 <richard> Shadi: Maybe there are types of functionality, maybe we can work a way to explain differences
15:39:30 <MartijnHoutepen> q- Ryladog
15:40:44 <richard> Kathy: I evealuate each occurrance - you can't ignore repeated elements
15:41:00 <shadi> s/Kathy/Katie
15:41:26 <shadi> q+
15:42:05 <shadi> ack me
15:43:34 <Detlev> q+
15:43:37 <richard> Shadi: Sometimes there is something that comes up often - but is not fundamental to the application. Think a bit more about this
15:44:08 <richard> Eric: We can discuss this on a mailing list - Shadi wil start
15:44:15 <Detlev> ack me
15:44:36 <Detlev> Each page state or generated page (individual representation of content and functionality) in which such a web application can be considered to be a web page for the purpose of this document should be included.
15:44:56 <richard> ACTION: Shadi start maillist about applications
15:44:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-8 - Start maillist about applications [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2013-01-24].
15:45:08 <shadi> action shadi to draft up list of "situations" in which applications are evaluated, to get a more complete picture on application evaluation
15:45:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-9 - Draft up list of "situations" in which applications are evaluated, to get a more complete picture on application evaluation [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2013-01-24].
15:45:23 <shadi> drop action 8
15:45:31 <shadi> trackbot, drop action 8
15:45:31 <trackbot> Sorry, shadi, I don't understand 'trackbot, drop action 8'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
15:45:47 <shadi> rrsagent, drop action 8
15:46:26 <Kathy> q+
15:47:00 <Kathy> what about changing it to "Each page state or generated page (individual representation of content and functionality) in a web application should be considered to be a web page for the purpose of this document."
15:47:05 <Detlev> fine
15:47:09 <ericvelleman> q?
15:47:13 <Kathy> ack me
15:47:14 <Detlev> Zakim, mute me
15:47:15 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:47:20 <richard> Eric: If we don't want to include everything then we should discuss how we define things
15:47:39 <Detlev> thjat#s nit what I meant!
15:48:09 <shadi> +1
15:48:25 <Kathy> zakim, mute me
15:48:25 <Zakim> Kathy should now be muted
15:48:26 <shadi> "should be considered" -> "is considered"
15:48:27 <MoeKraft> I like it. +1
15:48:31 <MartijnHoutepen> +1
15:48:33 <Detlev> It's going obver the top this way - but let's discuss another time
15:51:03 <richard> Eric: I will come up with a new editor draft over weekend - cane everyone check it before next telco
15:51:07 <Sarah_Swierenga> I'm looking forward to closing the disposition of comments!
15:51:13 <MoeKraft> q+
15:52:36 <richard> Sarah: Any idea when we will close dispostion of comments?
15:53:15 <richard> Eric: Soon! - before end of January - hopefully
15:53:18 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/eval-ws#timeline
15:55:08 <ericvelleman> q?
15:55:56 <richard> Shadi: We are behind schedule, but hopefully we can make up for that. so that we can set up practical exercises running method alongside existing methods
15:56:50 <richard> MoeKraft: will it be open mailing list ?
15:57:09 <richard> Eric: Will be up by Monday morning
15:58:01 <MartijnHoutepen> ack me
15:58:03 <Liz> bye
15:58:04 <Detlev> bye
15:58:06 <Zakim> -Kathy
15:58:07 <Zakim> - +1.517.432.aaff
15:58:08 <Kathy> bye
15:58:08 <Zakim> -MoeKraft
15:58:10 <Zakim> -Detlev
15:58:11 <richard> Eric: Happy New Year
15:58:11 <Sarah_Swierenga> bye
15:58:12 <Zakim> -MartijnHoutepen
15:58:12 <Zakim> -Eric
15:58:14 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:58:15 <MoeKraft> bye
15:58:19 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:58:20 <Zakim> - +1.301.975.aaee
15:58:20 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
15:58:20 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:58:20 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +31.30.239.aaaa, MartijnHoutepen, Shadi, +1.978.443.aabb, +31.30.239.aacc, Kathy, +49.404.318.aadd, Eric, Detlev, +1.301.975.aaee,
15:58:21 <ericvelleman> ericvelleman has left #eval
15:58:23 <Zakim> ... +1.517.432.aaff, Katie_Haritos-Shea, MoeKraft, richard
15:58:24 <richard> bye
15:58:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:58:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-eval-minutes.html trackbot
15:58:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:58:29 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-eval-actions.rdf :
15:58:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shadi start maillist about applications [1]
15:58:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-eval-irc#T15-44-56
15:58:33 <Zakim> -richard
15:58:34 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
15:58:34 <Zakim> Attendees were +31.30.239.aaaa, MartijnHoutepen, Shadi, +1.978.443.aabb, +31.30.239.aacc, Kathy, +49.404.318.aadd, Eric, Detlev, +1.301.975.aaee, +1.517.432.aaff,
15:58:34 <Zakim> ... Katie_Haritos-Shea, MoeKraft, richard