IRC log of eval on 2013-01-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:48 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #eval
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-eval-irc
14:57:50 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:57:50 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #eval
14:57:52 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3825
14:57:52 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:53 [trackbot]
Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference
14:57:53 [trackbot]
Date: 17 January 2013
14:58:49 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
14:58:58 [Zakim]
+ +31.30.239.aaaa
14:59:03 [MartijnHoutepen]
Zakim, aaaa is me
14:59:03 [Zakim]
+MartijnHoutepen; got it
14:59:49 [MartijnHoutepen]
Zakim, agenda?
14:59:49 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
14:59:57 [ericvelleman]
ericvelleman has joined #eval
15:00:16 [MartijnHoutepen]
agenda+ Welcome
15:00:17 [richard]
richard has joined #eval
15:00:32 [MartijnHoutepen]
agenda+ Latest version of Disposition of Comments
15:00:47 [MartijnHoutepen]
agenda+ Other issues
15:01:28 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:01:31 [Zakim]
+Shadi
15:02:00 [Kathy]
Kathy has joined #eval
15:02:22 [Detlev]
Detlev has joined #eval
15:02:26 [Zakim]
+ +1.978.443.aabb
15:02:33 [Zakim]
+ +31.30.239.aacc
15:02:43 [Kathy]
zakim, aabb is Kathy
15:02:44 [Zakim]
+Kathy; got it
15:03:01 [Zakim]
+ +49.404.318.aadd
15:03:08 [ericvelleman]
zakim, aacc is Eric
15:03:09 [Zakim]
+Eric; got it
15:03:19 [Sarah_Swierenga]
Sarah_Swierenga has joined #eval
15:03:20 [Liz]
Liz has joined #eval
15:03:25 [Detlev]
Zakim, aadd is Detlev
15:03:25 [Zakim]
+Detlev; got it
15:04:02 [Kathy]
zakim, mute me
15:04:02 [Zakim]
Kathy should now be muted
15:04:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.301.975.aaee
15:04:12 [MartijnHoutepen]
Zakim, mute me
15:04:12 [Zakim]
MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
15:04:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.517.432.aaff
15:04:29 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:04:40 [Kathy]
Happy New Year!
15:04:44 [Detlev]
Zakim, mute me
15:04:44 [Zakim]
Detlev should now be muted
15:04:57 [MoeKraft]
MoeKraft has joined #eval
15:05:23 [Zakim]
+MoeKraft
15:05:32 [richard]
happy new
15:05:38 [shadi]
zakim, ipcaller is richard
15:05:38 [Zakim]
+richard; got it
15:05:52 [shadi]
scribe: richard
15:06:37 [richard]
Eric: welcome
15:06:51 [MartijnHoutepen]
Zakim, agenda?
15:06:51 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:06:53 [Zakim]
1. Welcome [from MartijnHoutepen]
15:06:53 [Zakim]
2. Latest version of Disposition of Comments [from MartijnHoutepen]
15:06:53 [Zakim]
3. Other issues [from MartijnHoutepen]
15:06:56 [Ryladog]
Ryladog has joined #eval
15:07:04 [MoeKraft]
nope
15:07:16 [MartijnHoutepen]
Zakim, take up next
15:07:16 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from MartijnHoutepen]
15:07:32 [Kathy]
snowy and cold in Boston
15:07:45 [MoeKraft]
ditto : )
15:07:51 [ericvelleman]
snow in Netherlands, Zeist also
15:09:08 [MartijnHoutepen]
Zakim, take up next
15:09:08 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Latest version of Disposition of Comments" taken up [from MartijnHoutepen]
15:09:08 [ericvelleman]
<http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20130117>
15:09:55 [richard]
Topi: disposition of comments
15:10:13 [richard]
Topic: Disposition of comments
15:10:37 [richard]
Eric: Yellow places are review notes
15:12:19 [richard]
Eric: We can now review this and I will send out next version for review before-hand
15:13:00 [richard]
Eric: We can work through, I will make changes for next meeting
15:13:50 [shadi]
q+
15:13:54 [ericvelleman]
q?
15:14:02 [shadi]
ack me
15:15:18 [richard]
Shadi: Not sure if policy makers actually do evaluation - they benefit from evaluations - they commission
15:15:25 [Ryladog]
q+
15:16:19 [richard]
Shadi: 1.2 section -I think we agreed purpose not target audience so we describe usage
15:17:09 [ericvelleman]
q?
15:17:13 [richard]
Shadi: Perhaps change sentence to be more functional ??
15:17:28 [MartijnHoutepen]
q- Ryladog
15:18:09 [richard]
Katie: In large orgs - sometimes policy maker is also the evaluator.
15:18:52 [richard]
Eric: Perhapd we should take these people out as they are already in 1.2.
15:19:12 [ericvelleman]
q?
15:19:13 [Sarah_Swierenga]
I like the idea of adding this context
15:19:16 [richard]
Eric: Do we accept Shadi's suggestion
15:19:25 [Sarah_Swierenga]
+1
15:19:28 [MoeKraft]
+1
15:19:44 [Liz]
+1
15:19:46 [MartijnHoutepen]
+1
15:19:48 [richard]
Eric: I will try to do this in next iteration
15:20:29 [shadi]
[[There are many situations in which conformance evaluation of existing websites to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0 is necessary. This includes for ...]]
15:20:41 [richard]
Eric: Next is scope of this document
15:21:40 [shadi]
http://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20121213&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20130117
15:21:47 [richard]
Eric: Tried to find solution for a load of comments - see changes in dif doc
15:21:55 [MartijnHoutepen]
http://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20120915&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20130117
15:22:13 [MartijnHoutepen]
compared to an earlier version
15:23:09 [richard]
Eric: Can we check later and review before next meeting (homework!)
15:23:21 [ericvelleman]
q?
15:23:43 [shadi]
http://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2FWCAG-EM&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20130117
15:23:58 [richard]
Topic: Definition of common functionality
15:24:51 [richard]
Eric: Changed and should be closed now.
15:25:41 [richard]
Shadi: Try looking at public draft
15:26:48 [Detlev]
q+
15:27:02 [richard]
Topic: 2.1.1 Web applications
15:27:17 [Detlev]
ack me
15:28:01 [MartijnHoutepen]
q+
15:28:58 [richard]
Detlev: Noticed that - beginning of section 2 - overall "performance" - sounds as if methodology will not work for poor quality sites
15:29:13 [richard]
Eric: Send me an email
15:30:50 [Detlev]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20130117#applications
15:31:33 [shadi]
q+
15:31:38 [richard]
Detlev: Can it be rephrased to make it more general
15:31:53 [ericvelleman]
q?
15:31:56 [MartijnHoutepen]
ack me
15:32:00 [Detlev]
Zakim, mute me
15:32:00 [Zakim]
Detlev should now be muted
15:33:05 [Detlev]
agree - which can go
15:33:32 [MartijnHoutepen]
zakim, mute me
15:33:32 [Zakim]
MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
15:33:32 [Detlev]
…should be included as candidate for sampling.
15:33:39 [richard]
Martijn: Third sentence - use of "which" might be confusing
15:34:23 [MoeKraft]
I agree. Which adds some confusion
15:34:56 [Detlev]
q+
15:35:49 [shadi]
q-
15:35:50 [Detlev]
ack me
15:35:59 [richard]
Shadi: Sampling functionality - not feasable to check every function - but complete processes needs care - concerned that evaluators get to decide - each will do it differently - not a trivial thing
15:36:27 [shadi]
q+
15:37:14 [richard]
Detlev: Do information boxes that evolve (appear) form part of the process.
15:37:17 [shadi]
ack me
15:37:27 [Detlev]
Zakim, mute me
15:37:27 [Zakim]
Detlev should now be muted
15:37:43 [Ryladog]
q+
15:37:57 [richard]
Shadi: Strictly WCAG says EVERYTHING on teh page needs to be valid
15:39:25 [richard]
Shadi: Maybe there are types of functionality, maybe we can work a way to explain differences
15:39:30 [MartijnHoutepen]
q- Ryladog
15:40:44 [richard]
Kathy: I evealuate each occurrance - you can't ignore repeated elements
15:41:00 [shadi]
s/Kathy/Katie
15:41:26 [shadi]
q+
15:42:05 [shadi]
ack me
15:43:34 [Detlev]
q+
15:43:37 [richard]
Shadi: Sometimes there is something that comes up often - but is not fundamental to the application. Think a bit more about this
15:44:08 [richard]
Eric: We can discuss this on a mailing list - Shadi wil start
15:44:15 [Detlev]
ack me
15:44:36 [Detlev]
Each page state or generated page (individual representation of content and functionality) in which such a web application can be considered to be a web page for the purpose of this document should be included.
15:44:56 [richard]
ACTION: Shadi start maillist about applications
15:44:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-8 - Start maillist about applications [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2013-01-24].
15:45:08 [shadi]
action shadi to draft up list of "situations" in which applications are evaluated, to get a more complete picture on application evaluation
15:45:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-9 - Draft up list of "situations" in which applications are evaluated, to get a more complete picture on application evaluation [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2013-01-24].
15:45:23 [shadi]
drop action 8
15:45:31 [shadi]
trackbot, drop action 8
15:45:31 [trackbot]
Sorry, shadi, I don't understand 'trackbot, drop action 8'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
15:45:47 [shadi]
rrsagent, drop action 8
15:46:26 [Kathy]
q+
15:47:00 [Kathy]
what about changing it to "Each page state or generated page (individual representation of content and functionality) in a web application should be considered to be a web page for the purpose of this document."
15:47:05 [Detlev]
fine
15:47:09 [ericvelleman]
q?
15:47:13 [Kathy]
ack me
15:47:14 [Detlev]
Zakim, mute me
15:47:15 [Zakim]
Detlev should now be muted
15:47:20 [richard]
Eric: If we don't want to include everything then we should discuss how we define things
15:47:39 [Detlev]
thjat#s nit what I meant!
15:48:09 [shadi]
+1
15:48:25 [Kathy]
zakim, mute me
15:48:25 [Zakim]
Kathy should now be muted
15:48:26 [shadi]
"should be considered" -> "is considered"
15:48:27 [MoeKraft]
I like it. +1
15:48:31 [MartijnHoutepen]
+1
15:48:33 [Detlev]
It's going obver the top this way - but let's discuss another time
15:51:03 [richard]
Eric: I will come up with a new editor draft over weekend - cane everyone check it before next telco
15:51:07 [Sarah_Swierenga]
I'm looking forward to closing the disposition of comments!
15:51:13 [MoeKraft]
q+
15:52:36 [richard]
Sarah: Any idea when we will close dispostion of comments?
15:53:15 [richard]
Eric: Soon! - before end of January - hopefully
15:53:18 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/eval-ws#timeline
15:55:08 [ericvelleman]
q?
15:55:56 [richard]
Shadi: We are behind schedule, but hopefully we can make up for that. so that we can set up practical exercises running method alongside existing methods
15:56:50 [richard]
MoeKraft: will it be open mailing list ?
15:57:09 [richard]
Eric: Will be up by Monday morning
15:58:01 [MartijnHoutepen]
ack me
15:58:03 [Liz]
bye
15:58:04 [Detlev]
bye
15:58:06 [Zakim]
-Kathy
15:58:07 [Zakim]
- +1.517.432.aaff
15:58:08 [Kathy]
bye
15:58:08 [Zakim]
-MoeKraft
15:58:10 [Zakim]
-Detlev
15:58:11 [richard]
Eric: Happy New Year
15:58:11 [Sarah_Swierenga]
bye
15:58:12 [Zakim]
-MartijnHoutepen
15:58:12 [Zakim]
-Eric
15:58:14 [Zakim]
-Shadi
15:58:15 [MoeKraft]
bye
15:58:19 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:58:20 [Zakim]
- +1.301.975.aaee
15:58:20 [shadi]
trackbot, end meeting
15:58:20 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
15:58:20 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +31.30.239.aaaa, MartijnHoutepen, Shadi, +1.978.443.aabb, +31.30.239.aacc, Kathy, +49.404.318.aadd, Eric, Detlev, +1.301.975.aaee,
15:58:21 [ericvelleman]
ericvelleman has left #eval
15:58:23 [Zakim]
... +1.517.432.aaff, Katie_Haritos-Shea, MoeKraft, richard
15:58:24 [richard]
bye
15:58:28 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:58:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-eval-minutes.html trackbot
15:58:29 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
15:58:29 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-eval-actions.rdf :
15:58:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Shadi start maillist about applications [1]
15:58:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-eval-irc#T15-44-56
15:58:33 [Zakim]
-richard
15:58:34 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
15:58:34 [Zakim]
Attendees were +31.30.239.aaaa, MartijnHoutepen, Shadi, +1.978.443.aabb, +31.30.239.aacc, Kathy, +49.404.318.aadd, Eric, Detlev, +1.301.975.aaee, +1.517.432.aaff,
15:58:34 [Zakim]
... Katie_Haritos-Shea, MoeKraft, richard