IRC log of rd on 2013-01-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:26:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rd
14:26:21 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:26:21 [sharper]
zakim, please clear the agenda
14:26:22 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:26:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:26:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7394
14:26:25 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:26:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:26:26 [trackbot]
Date: 16 January 2013
14:26:28 [klaus]
klaus has joined #rd
14:26:47 [sharper]
Chair: Harper_Simon
14:26:47 [sharper]
Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
14:26:48 [sharper]
Agenda+ Mobile Note Para-by-Para Review - [yeliz/peter/simon]
14:26:57 [sharper]
zakim, save agenda
14:27:03 [Zakim]
ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to
14:27:07 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 1
14:27:07 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
14:27:15 [sharper]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:27:15 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:27:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sharper
14:28:29 [sharper]
- <
14:29:02 [sharper]
zakim, code?
14:29:02 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, sharper
14:29:53 [markel]
markel has joined #rd
14:30:03 [dave]
zakim, mute me
14:30:03 [Zakim]
sorry, dave, I don't know what conference this is
14:30:08 [Silvia]
Silvia has joined #rd
14:30:18 [shadi]
zakim, this is rdwg
14:30:18 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; that matches WAI_RDWG()9:30AM
14:30:26 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:30:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P10, [IPcaller], ??P12, [IPcaller.a], Shadi
14:30:59 [annika]
annika has joined #rd
14:31:12 [dave]
14:31:21 [klaus]
14:31:25 [sharper]
zakim, ??P12 is sharper
14:31:25 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
14:31:52 [dave]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:31:52 [Zakim]
+dave; got it
14:31:57 [yeliz]
yeliz has joined #rd
14:32:02 [dave]
zakim, mute me
14:32:02 [Zakim]
dave should now be muted
14:32:07 [klaus]
zakim, ??P10 is me
14:32:07 [Zakim]
+klaus; got it
14:32:17 [klaus]
zakim. mute me
14:32:20 [Silvia]
zakim, [IPcaller.a] is Silvia
14:32:20 [Zakim]
+Silvia; got it
14:32:23 [Zakim]
14:32:31 [klaus]
zakim, mute me
14:32:31 [Zakim]
klaus should now be muted
14:32:34 [yeliz]
zakim, [IPcaller] is yeliz
14:32:34 [Zakim]
+yeliz; got it
14:32:38 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:32:38 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:32:39 [sharper]
regrets: Peter, Vivienne, Giorgio, Mark, Yehya, Kerstin
14:32:45 [Zakim]
14:33:00 [Silvia]
zakim, mute me
14:33:00 [Zakim]
Silvia should now be muted
14:33:09 [markel]
zakim, ??P16 is me
14:33:09 [Zakim]
+markel; got it
14:33:10 [sharper]
regrets+ shawn
14:34:17 [Zakim]
14:34:19 [yeliz]
I can do it
14:34:23 [yeliz]
no problem
14:34:30 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute yeliz
14:34:30 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:34:46 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:34:46 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:34:51 [sharper]
14:34:54 [annika]
zakim, ??P17 is me
14:34:54 [Zakim]
+annika; got it
14:34:58 [shadi]
scribe: shadi
14:35:04 [annika]
zakim, mute me
14:35:04 [Zakim]
annika should now be muted
14:35:12 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
14:35:12 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
14:36:01 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute me
14:36:01 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:36:29 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:36:30 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:36:42 [shadi]
ack me
14:38:22 [shadi]
q- ??p12
14:38:27 [shadi]
q- ipcaller
14:39:13 [shadi]
14:39:23 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 2
14:39:23 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Mobile Note Para-by-Para Review -" taken up [from yeliz/peter/simon via sharper]
14:39:45 [shadi]
SH: any concerns with going paragraph-by-paragraph?
14:40:03 [shadi]
SAZ: sometimes need to go back and look at the bigger picture, flow, or such
14:40:06 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute me
14:40:08 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:40:24 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:40:24 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:40:30 [shadi]
SH: absolutely, emphasis is on the core message rather than typographics
14:40:38 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute me
14:40:38 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:40:46 [shadi]
14:41:35 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:41:35 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:41:51 [shadi]
YY: Shawn had comment on citation
14:42:00 [shadi]
14:43:11 [yeliz]
14:43:21 [shadi]
SAZ: W3C Manual of Style has section on citation that we need to follow
14:43:34 [shadi]
SH: will add to the guidance for document editors
14:43:49 [shadi]
14:43:58 [shadi]
q- ipcaller
14:44:30 [yeliz]
we don't know
14:44:31 [yeliz]
14:44:34 [yeliz]
14:44:42 [yeliz]
we don't know if it is good or bad
14:44:43 [yeliz]
14:44:46 [shadi]
q- [ipcaller]
14:44:48 [shadi]
14:45:32 [shadi]
SAZ: the word "sophisticated" sticks out
14:45:45 [shadi]
...will comment separately on such wording stuff
14:46:04 [shadi]
14:48:10 [shadi]
SH: maybe good to clarify
14:48:10 [yeliz]
We refer them in the future directions part
14:48:22 [yeliz]
Under "research roadmap"
14:48:26 [shadi]
SAZ: only reference existing work but there is more in development
14:48:38 [shadi]
SH: maybe too much for the abstract
14:48:54 [dave]
14:49:03 [sharper]
Ack sha
14:49:04 [shadi]
SAZ: maybe link to the MWI "roadmap" rather than enumerate all the work
14:49:04 [shadi]
14:49:06 [sharper]
ack dav
14:49:06 [dave]
ack me
14:49:19 [shadi]
14:49:38 [shadi]
DS: maybe better to scope what "mobile devices" are
14:50:02 [shadi] phones but maybe also portable computers?
14:50:22 [shadi] it just mobility aspect or also location services in such devices?
14:50:24 [shadi]
14:50:46 [shadi]
SH: agree, could define them as how MWBP define them
14:51:02 [yeliz]
I did, thanks David
14:51:10 [dave]
zakim, mute me
14:51:10 [Zakim]
dave should now be muted
14:51:44 [dave]
14:51:59 [dave]
ack me
14:52:00 [sharper]
ack dave
14:52:44 [shadi]
DS: assertion about iOS in paragraph 3 needs qualification
14:52:59 [shadi]
...otherwise may seem biased
14:53:01 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute me
14:53:01 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:53:08 [shadi]
...also typo "accessibility community"
14:53:11 [dave]
zakim, unmute me
14:53:11 [Zakim]
dave was not muted, dave
14:53:16 [dave]
zakim, mute me
14:53:16 [Zakim]
dave should now be muted
14:53:44 [dave]
zakim, unmute me
14:53:44 [Zakim]
dave should no longer be muted
14:53:47 [shadi]
YY: what specifically is the issue?
14:54:08 [shadi]
SH: "excellent accessibility features"
14:55:01 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:55:01 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:55:09 [yeliz]
Thanks, David
14:55:14 [shadi]
SAZ: maybe stay more objective, like "built-in" rather than "excellent"
14:55:24 [dave]
zakim, mute me
14:55:24 [Zakim]
dave should now be muted
14:56:42 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute me
14:56:42 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
14:56:47 [yeliz]
zakim, q+
14:56:47 [Zakim]
I see yeliz on the speaker queue
14:57:01 [shadi]
14:57:05 [sharper]
ack yeli
14:57:09 [shadi]
SAZ: also here we have focus on "existing standards" only
14:57:19 [shadi]
...actually here is only subset of that too
14:57:27 [shadi]
...seems to be issue throughout
14:57:37 [shadi]
YY: these are specific examples
14:57:42 [sharper]
ack shad
14:57:42 [shadi]
ack me
14:58:09 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:58:09 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:59:39 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute me
14:59:39 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
15:00:04 [shadi]
SAZ: maybe need to scope the standards we are considering
15:00:20 [shadi]
...rather than enumerate a different list each time
15:00:26 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
15:00:26 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
15:00:31 [yeliz]
yes, I will do that
15:00:40 [shadi]
YY: not sure fully understand
15:01:04 [Zakim]
15:01:04 [shadi]
...was not the scope of the symposium
15:01:13 [shadi]
SH: think understand the issue, will discuss the editors
15:01:17 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute me
15:01:17 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
15:02:17 [dave]
15:02:22 [dave]
ack me
15:02:46 [shadi]
DS: maybe be explicit about when the symposium took place?
15:03:01 [shadi] give a sense of time and currency
15:03:15 [shadi]
15:03:39 [shadi]
YY: something specific changed?
15:04:04 [shadi]
DS: difficult to say but may change over time
15:04:59 [shadi] chronological order
15:05:06 [shadi]
YY: seems very relevant to all Notes
15:05:13 [shadi]
DS: yes, agree with that
15:06:23 [shadi]
[[Related Work]]
15:06:46 [shadi]
DS: list of references has no apparent order
15:07:04 [shadi]
...may need a specific order style
15:07:14 [shadi]
...maybe chronological or alphabetical
15:07:21 [shadi]
YY: agree, will add to issues list
15:09:01 [shadi]
DS: wonder about the choice of study to back the statement "disabled users experience many difficulties when they access the web"
15:09:26 [shadi]
15:09:42 [shadi]
YY: many studies, suggestions?
15:10:06 [shadi]
DS: most general one, maybe don't need a specific assertion
15:13:26 [shadi]
DS: maybe the focus needs to be on contrasting challenges on the desktop versus on the Web?
15:13:45 [dave]
zakim, mute me
15:13:45 [Zakim]
dave should now be muted
15:13:59 [shadi]
...could bypass the need to have references for such a generic statement
15:14:06 [shadi]
[[2.1 Mobile Technology and Accessibility]]
15:16:29 [dave]
+1 to shadi
15:16:50 [dave]
15:16:56 [dave]
ack me
15:16:59 [shadi]
SAZ: observation that paragraph 1 seems to be defining and scoping things that are relevant to the entire document
15:16:59 [shadi]
15:17:22 [shadi]
...may get lost there under "related work" and "mobile technology and accessibility" headings
15:18:34 [shadi]
DS: maybe good to clarify that some features are easier to invoke and work with than others
15:19:04 [shadi]
YY: very difficult to find studies about usability of features
15:19:07 [shadi]
DS: maybe can say that there is less data
15:19:09 [shadi]
15:19:21 [shadi]
YY: say something about that earlier on
15:19:48 [shadi]
...but maybe too specific and not backed with scientific work
15:19:48 [dave]
zakim, mute me
15:19:48 [Zakim]
dave should now be muted
15:21:17 [shadi]
SAZ: not specific to mobile alone, also on the desktop accessibility features may be easier or more difficult to use
15:22:32 [shadi]
...maybe can extrapolate experience from desktop and assume that is similar on mobile?
15:22:52 [dave]
15:22:58 [shadi]
...know that WAI-AGE literature review looked at easy of use of accessibility features for older people
15:22:59 [dave]
ack me
15:23:00 [shadi]
15:23:16 [shadi]
YY: can find references for desktop, there are several
15:23:41 [shadi]
[[2.2 Mobile Accessibility Guidelines]]
15:24:01 [shadi]
DS: maybe can separate out an "evaluation" sub-section?
15:25:31 [shadi]
[[2.3 Mobile Interaction Models]]
15:27:01 [shadi]
SAZ: focus on mobile phones only? tablets? laptops?
15:27:39 [dave]
q+ on 2.3. para 3
15:28:04 [shadi]
YY: can look at the MWBP definition though may be a little outdated
15:28:16 [shadi]
...agree need to scope the term
15:28:24 [shadi]
SAZ: agree may be outdated
15:28:36 [shadi]
YY: need to separate from ubiquitous devices
15:28:44 [shadi]
ack d
15:28:44 [Zakim]
dave, you wanted to comment on 2.3. para 3
15:29:35 [dave]
zakim, mute me
15:29:35 [Zakim]
dave should now be muted
15:29:44 [shadi]
DS: "Many studies show that small device users benefit from haptic feedback [...] Similarly, haptic feedback is also used on mobile devices in the form of vibro-tactile display"
15:30:01 [shadi]
...may need to be reworded for clarity
15:30:20 [shadi]
YY: agree
15:30:40 [shadi]
YY: can continue from section 3 next time
15:31:44 [markel]
15:31:44 [dave]
thankyou yeliz and shadi - bye!
15:31:46 [Silvia]
ok, bye
15:31:49 [Zakim]
15:31:50 [markel]
markel has left #rd
15:31:51 [dave]
dave has left #rd
15:31:56 [klaus]
15:31:57 [Zakim]
15:32:00 [Zakim]
15:32:04 [Zakim]
15:32:07 [annika]
annika has left #rd
15:32:10 [Zakim]
15:32:13 [Zakim]
15:32:16 [shadi]
trackbot, end meeting
15:32:16 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
15:32:16 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Shadi, sharper, dave, klaus, Silvia, yeliz, markel, annika
15:32:24 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:32:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
15:32:25 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
15:32:25 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items