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14:50:32 <fsasaki> meeting: MLW-LT WG
14:50:34 <fsasaki> chair: felix
14:50:51 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0090.html
14:51:01 <fsasaki> topic: roll call
14:51:06 <fsasaki> tbd ...
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14:53:39 <fsasaki> present+ felix
14:53:45 <kfritsche> present+ karl
14:54:18 <Marcis> present+ Marcis
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14:56:01 <fsasaki> regrets+ dom
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14:58:20 <leroy> present+ leroy
14:58:23 <Ankit> present +Ankit
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15:00:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/16-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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15:01:12 <Clemens> present +Clemens
15:01:23 <fsasaki> present+ dave
15:01:26 <Des> present +Des
15:01:52 <mdelolmo> present+ mdelolmo
15:02:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/16-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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15:03:14 <fsasaki> scribe: daveL
15:03:36 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0090.html
15:03:50 <fsasaki> topic: Meeting time
15:03:56 <Arle> Can someone post the Germany dial in info?
15:04:02 <fsasaki> http://www.doodle.com/pn6xa86rfbypmd2k
15:04:31 <joerg> +49 (0) 811 8899 6930
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15:05:16 <Arle> And the meeting number?
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15:05:27 <pnietoca> +present pnietoca
15:05:29 <Yves_> present+ Yves
15:05:44 <fsasaki> present+ guiseppe
15:05:53 <omstefanov> can someone please post the gotomeeting link, I lost it
15:06:05 <omstefanov> +present omstefanov
15:06:10 <Yves_> https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/682416317
15:06:14 <tadej> +present tadej
15:07:31 <omstefanov> thanks
15:07:49 <daveL> felix; there is no apparent slot that works. felix willl distribute a weekly alternating proposal
15:08:01 <fsasaki> topic: state of XLIFF mapping
15:08:36 <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
15:08:46 <fsasaki> dave: haven't updated the mapping page a lot
15:09:05 <fsasaki> .. there is more work to be done to formalize the mapping
15:09:11 <fsasaki> .. and come up with examples
15:09:24 <fsasaki> .. I think we won't to focus on XLIFF 1.2 mapping first
15:09:39 <fsasaki> .. we were hoping that XLIFF 2 would be stable, but there is a dely
15:09:44 <fsasaki> s/dely/delay/
15:10:01 <fsasaki> dave: focus on XLIFF 1.2 also helps with putting a demonstrator together
15:10:08 <fsasaki> yves: dave summarized everythign right
15:10:19 <fsasaki> .. in okapi we implemented ITS mapping on what we have
15:10:26 <fsasaki> .. it is partially implemented, ongoing
15:10:36 <fsasaki> dave: we will come back shortly on that
15:10:39 <Pedro> Pedro has joined #mlw-lt
15:10:56 <fsasaki> .. wrt to interop between solas and CMS lion, also using okapi
15:11:03 <fsasaki> .. with the preparation for rome
15:11:22 <fsasaki> phil: it is now on our critical path for our implementation
15:11:32 <fsasaki> .. david said he would have a prototype a few weeks ago
15:11:39 <fsasaki> .. even if there is nothing final
15:11:47 <fsasaki> .. even if we would have a rough direction
15:12:00 <fsasaki> .. e.g. yves said that with xliff 1.2, he would use mrk markup
15:12:18 <fsasaki> .. even if we had directions what is easily acceptable
15:12:26 <fsasaki> .. otherwise it could hold up my implemetnation
15:12:38 <fsasaki> yves: the xliff 1.2 mapping is what we used for implementations
15:12:45 <fsasaki> .. most of the time it made sense
15:13:02 <fsasaki> .. we have tackled some of the standoff stuff
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15:13:15 <fsasaki> .. it is also in the git repository (for okapi, scribe assumes)?
15:13:26 <Yves_> yes
15:13:55 <fsasaki> phil: provenance and loc quality issue, rating are relevant for us here
15:13:56 <Yves_> Location: http://code.google.com/p/okapi/source/list?name=html5
15:14:40 <fsasaki> phil: Yves' page for 1.2. we can certainly use that as our direction
15:14:50 <fsasaki> dave: will talk to david tomorrow about that
15:14:53 <fsasaki> phil: tx
15:15:15 <fsasaki> topic: New value for localization quality type "conformance"
15:15:19 <daveL> scribe: daveL
15:15:45 <daveL> felix: asks if anyone has further thoughts, or supported for this new type
15:15:52 <fsasaki> topic: Regular expression change
15:15:56 <daveL> ... no respeonses yet
15:16:39 <daveL> shaun: no update on this
15:17:07 <daveL> action: shaunm to work on regex for validating regex subset proposal
15:17:07 <trackbot> Error finding 'shaunm'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/users>.
15:17:39 <fsasaki> action: shaun to work on regex for validating regex subset proposal
15:17:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-385 - Work on regex for validating regex subset proposal [on Shaun McCance - due 2013-01-23].
15:17:54 <fsasaki> topic: Disambiguation and term
15:18:34 <daveL> topic: disambiguation and term
15:18:55 <daveL> felix: has been discussed in response to christian comment
15:19:05 <daveL> ... any further comments
15:19:21 <daveL> marcis: what is the goal?
15:19:47 <daveL> felix: christian suggested merging term and disambig data categories
15:20:23 <daveL> ... but response was that both had distinct use cases, that could merge by are valid individually
15:20:58 <daveL> marcis: would not want to drop data category, term is easier to implement and purpose is clear
15:21:25 <daveL> ... not so clear on disambiguation category, in terms of what is possible to do with this
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15:22:05 <daveL> ... for example there may be other types that might be useful in the disambiguation use case
15:22:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/16-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:22:42 <daveL> ... and doing term management with disambig would make it very heavy
15:23:02 <fsasaki> present+ milan, tadej
15:23:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/16-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:23:35 <daveL> marcis: so there might need to be more atribute specifically for named entity
15:23:46 <daveL> ... referencing input form W3C india recvied today
15:24:39 <daveL> tadej: motivation for separate data category was because it covered some use cases that fell out of the scope of terminology
15:25:07 <daveL> ... by providing some additional context
15:25:23 <daveL> ... but do see that there is some commonality
15:25:56 <daveL> ... Also term must remain to keep compatibility with named entity 1
15:26:26 <daveL> correction, > with terminology in ITS1
15:26:57 <daveL> jorge: still in favour of having the two data categories
15:27:28 <daveL> ... since dismabiguation can cover many other tasks in content or NLP processing
15:27:40 <daveL> ... whereas term is more specific
15:28:32 <fsasaki> s/jorge/jörg/
15:28:37 <daveL> pedro: the sort of text we mark up is different in both cases so it makes sense to keep the distinction
15:30:45 <daveL> tadej; agree granularities are quite limiting, or should we have more identifiers to support this
15:30:56 <daveL> ... but this might be more comlicating
15:31:19 <daveL> jorge: yes this would be more complicated, clearer as it is
15:31:28 <fsasaki> http://tinyurl.com/its20-testsuite-dashboard
15:31:54 <daveL> felix: christian will dial in to f2f to discuss this and resolve the topic next week
15:32:52 <daveL> ... we also need to consider number of implementations, which are not so many, when considering any possible merger
15:33:18 <daveL> Dec: agree with jorge, keep them separate as they are distinct use cases
15:33:38 <fsasaki> s/Dec:/Des:/
15:33:58 <daveL> jorge: clarified, attributes as defined currently are clearer than making them more fine grained
15:36:11 <daveL> felix:reminds that W3C process requires responding which involves some work
15:36:50 <Yves_> could we talk about annotorsRef https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/71 a bit during this call?
15:37:02 <daveL> felix: the current level of commetn is good currently
15:37:05 <fsasaki> topic: annotorsRef
15:38:29 <daveL> yves; for two data categories, proc and locqualiss, can have information from multiple annotators, but we have no way of doing this for annotatorRef
15:38:40 <fsasaki> s/yves;/yves:
15:39:32 <daveL> ... for current implementation, we assume the most recent annotator is the correct one, but this is not ideal
15:40:16 <daveL> ... provenance especially has multiple items and requires annotationRef
15:40:28 <fsasaki> daveL: will onto this
15:40:42 <daveL> scribe: daveL
15:41:30 <daveL> phil: lets talk about the ordering of proveance
15:41:33 <Yves_> provenance data category https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/72
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15:42:02 <Arle_> zakim, Arle_ is Arle
15:42:02 <Zakim> sorry, Arle_, I do not recognize a party named 'Arle_'
15:42:59 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0090.html
15:43:02 <Arle_> I am back on the call.
15:43:11 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0061.html
15:43:15 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0066.html
15:43:17 <daveL> felix: this was a discussion of whether there was any implication between ordering and time of record
15:43:21 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0055.html
15:43:35 <fsasaki> (mails related to the discussion)
15:43:43 <fsasaki> topic: provenance record ordering
15:43:53 <daveL> phil: asks whether there should be a lack of date stamp
15:44:11 <fsasaki> daveL: a date stamp was discussed
15:44:17 <fsasaki> .. there is two aspects:
15:44:34 <fsasaki> .. a lot of original requirements didn't have a strong need for a time stamp
15:45:00 <fsasaki> .. the original requirement was about identifying rich enough so that we can differentiate
15:45:13 <fsasaki> .. see e.g. "agent provenance" that used to include taht
15:45:26 <fsasaki> .. the 2nd aspect:
15:45:46 <fsasaki> .. we discussed whether the order of the proveancen records are added is significant
15:46:00 <fsasaki> .. but from an implementation point of view it is again compliciated
15:46:16 <fsasaki> .. and there hadn't be much a call for this during requirements gathering
15:46:36 <fsasaki> .. "time" also has various aspects: start of a translation, finish, duration, ...
15:46:52 <fsasaki> .. it is also a point that the provenance wg in w3c had addressed
15:47:10 <fsasaki> .. so we just provide identifiers of who made the translation and revision
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15:47:35 <fsasaki> .. for knowing more there is a the provenance model
15:47:41 <fsasaki> .. more = more about time
15:48:11 <fsasaki> .. so in summary, there was no big requirement to have a time stamp
15:48:22 <fsasaki> .. and *if* you want to do that, you can use the w3c prov model
15:48:30 <fsasaki> .. I'll reply to that mail thread
15:48:49 <fsasaki> pablo: I think provenance can stay as is
15:49:14 <fsasaki> .. adding a time stamp can be useful and interesint - if every implementer is fine with that i'm fine too
15:49:51 <daveL> scribe: daveL
15:50:20 <daveL> felix: adding tiestamp is a substantive change and would require another call, plus tests etc
15:51:35 <fsasaki> topic: Test suite
15:51:43 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0090.html
15:52:27 <daveL> felix: from this week on be aware that people should stop using the google docs and they update the test suite master themselves
15:52:40 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0087.html
15:53:04 <daveL> ... we need still some input on tests still related to assertion (MUSTs0 which need suggestion for test for them
15:53:27 <fsasaki> topic: prague f2f
15:53:30 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueJan2013f2f
15:53:39 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueJan2013f2f#Objectives
15:53:54 <daveL> felix: thanks to jirka for organising this
15:54:00 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueJan2013f2f#Participants
15:54:24 <daveL> jirka: is you are not yet register, please do so numbers are known for  wifi etc.
15:54:29 <dF> present+ dF
15:55:08 <daveL> felix: also need to know in advance when people want to dial in for organising the agenda
15:55:12 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueJan2013f2f#Objectives
15:56:52 <daveL> felix: go through objectives
15:57:43 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_level_summary
15:58:15 <daveL> ... in particular the relationship between the different posters and links to where people can access them and update high level summary, adding any new use cases
15:58:25 <Naoto> present+ Naoto
15:58:58 <fsasaki> daveL: some time to discuss preparing EU project review?
15:59:09 <daveL> ... also brainstorm on activities for rest of year and new projects and synergy between them
15:59:42 <daveL> felix: the Rome preparation should cover that.
16:00:20 <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
16:00:21 <omstefanov> as I will not be able to take part in the f2f Prague, but definitely intend to come to Rome, so please make sure preps for Rome are recording in writing
16:00:41 <fsasaki> topic: xliff mapping implementation update
16:01:06 <fsasaki> david: phil asked on that, we got good comments from xyz
16:01:22 <fsasaki> .. status of xliff mapping - only written piece is xliff mapping wiki
16:01:23 <dF> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/XLIFF_Mapping
16:02:02 <fsasaki> david: will work on this today, yesterday / today was EC deadline
16:02:28 <fsasaki> .. we should publish this as a note / PC
16:02:40 <fsasaki> .. what is the editorial setup for such a note?
16:03:11 <fsasaki> .. we will need an additional namespace itsx
16:03:40 <fsasaki> felix: update on implementation prototype?
16:03:53 <fsasaki> david: solas is consuming ITS2 categories
16:03:57 <fsasaki> .. like OKAPI does
16:04:11 <fsasaki> .. that is being tested as part of the test suite
16:04:27 <fsasaki> .. that is consumed by various components of solas architecture
16:04:34 <fsasaki> .. one is an MT broker
16:04:46 <fsasaki> .. works with different MT systems
16:05:16 <fsasaki> .. depends on the MT systems whether they can deal with ITS metadata
16:05:27 <fsasaki> .. moravia is contributing to that
16:05:37 <fsasaki> .. m4loc can be used as middleware
16:05:58 <fsasaki> .. in our current prototype the mt services exposes the m4loc service
16:06:14 <fsasaki> .. from the deliverable - open source xliff roundtripp
16:06:23 <fsasaki> .. the okapi filter interprets the ITS decoration
16:06:39 <fsasaki> .. then the mapping in the wiki is used
16:06:56 <fsasaki> .. it is consumed by middle ware open source component
16:07:50 <fsasaki> felix: would be good to see a demo
16:08:18 <fsasaki> david: will do, in prague and in rome
16:09:23 <fsasaki> topic: metadata harvesting
16:09:37 <fsasaki> ankit: we are waiting for some sort of data from cocomore
16:09:53 <fsasaki> felix: what data?
16:10:13 <fsasaki> ankit: we said that cocomore would provide us with annotated data
16:12:26 <fsasaki> ankit will provide module by prague f2f
16:13:14 <fsasaki> pedro: will have annotated data from spanish client
16:13:48 <fsasaki> pedro: client is the spanish gov tax office
16:13:58 <fsasaki> .. they will annotate with ITS metadata for this show case
16:14:05 <fsasaki> .. spanish content in HTML5
16:14:12 <fsasaki> .. we will generate english content
16:14:21 <fsasaki> .. and annotate it in the output of the real time system
16:14:49 <fsasaki> felix: so ankit could later use the data to test the module?
16:15:07 <fsasaki> ankit: training data is as much as you can get
16:15:26 <fsasaki> pedro: annotated data from cocomore is html content
16:15:35 <fsasaki> .. we will generate content in chinese and french
16:16:08 <fsasaki> .. so ankit can take that into account chinese, french, german in his system
16:16:14 <fsasaki> .. and spanish
16:16:35 <fsasaki> ankit: this will be german to english, german to french, german to chinese, german to spanish
16:16:59 <fsasaki> s/ankit:/pedro:/
16:17:21 <Pedro> Showcase WP3 (Cocomore-Linguaserve) is German to Chinese and German to French
16:17:43 <Clemens> right!
16:18:10 <Pedro> Showcase WP4 (Linguaserve-Lucy-DCU) is the full demo Spanish to English, and partial demo Spanish to French and Spanish to German
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16:19:32 <fsasaki> thanks for everybody for staying longer, meeting adjourned
16:19:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/16-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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16:38:23 <fsasaki> present+ olaf
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