15:48:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webrtc
15:48:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-irc
15:48:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:48:35 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be RTC
15:48:35 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_WebRTC()11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
15:48:36 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Real-Time Communications Working Group Teleconference
15:48:36 <trackbot> Date: 10 January 2013
15:52:43 <stefanh> stefanh has joined #webrtc
15:54:40 <dom> Chair: stefanh, hta
15:56:27 <Zakim> UW_WebRTC()11:00AM has now started
15:56:34 <Zakim> + +1.403.244.aaaa
15:56:51 <Zakim> + +1.908.578.aabb
15:57:05 <dom> Zakim, code?
15:57:05 <Zakim> the conference code is 9782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), dom
15:57:26 <hta> hta has joined #webrtc
15:58:06 <mreavy> mreavy has joined #webrtc
15:58:07 <jesup> jesup has joined #webrtc
15:58:14 <burn> burn has joined #webrtc
15:58:36 <Zakim> +Dan_Burnett
15:58:46 <burn> zakim, I am Dan_Burnett
15:58:46 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate you with Dan_Burnett
15:58:47 <Milan_Patel> Milan_Patel has joined #webrtc
15:58:48 <Zakim> + +46.8.50.51.aacc
15:58:57 <Zakim> + +46.1.07.14.aadd
15:59:02 <hta> zakim, aacc is me
15:59:03 <Zakim> +hta; got it
15:59:13 <stefanh> zakim, aadd is me
15:59:13 <Zakim> +stefanh; got it
15:59:18 <Zakim> + +972.9.957.aaee
15:59:23 <fluffy> fluffy has joined #webrtc
15:59:28 <Zakim> +Milan_Patel
15:59:52 <Zakim> +??P51
15:59:53 <dom> Zakim, ??P51 is me
15:59:53 <Zakim> +dom; got it
16:00:07 <dan_romascanu> dan_romascanu has joined #webrtc
16:00:15 <stefanh> Agenda, and some stuff: http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/wiki/Teleconferences#Thu.2C_Jan_10_2013
16:00:17 <Zakim> + +1.972.999.aaff
16:00:56 <Zakim> + +91.22.39.14.aagg
16:00:57 <nstratford> nstratford has joined #webrtc
16:01:02 <stefanh> Zakim, I am Stefan_Hakansson
16:01:02 <Zakim> sorry, stefanh, I do not see a party named 'Stefan_Hakansson'
16:01:12 <Zakim> + +1.703.334.aahh
16:01:37 <Zakim> - +91.22.39.14.aagg
16:01:46 <DanD> DanD has joined #WebRTC
16:01:52 <derf> Zakim, aahh is me
16:01:52 <Zakim> +derf; got it
16:01:59 <Zakim> +Dan_Druta
16:02:06 <adambe> adambe has joined #webrtc
16:02:13 <Zakim> + +46.1.07.14.aaii
16:02:15 <dan_romascanu> aaff may be me
16:02:19 <Zakim> + +1.630.423.aajj
16:02:28 <adambe> Zakim: aaii is me
16:02:55 <hta> zakim, who is here?
16:02:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.403.244.aaaa, +1.908.578.aabb, Dan_Burnett, hta, stefanh, +972.9.957.aaee, Milan_Patel, dom, +1.972.999.aaff, derf (muted), Dan_Druta, +46.1.07.14.aaii,
16:02:59 <Zakim> ... +1.630.423.aajj
16:02:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see adambe, DanD, nstratford, dan_romascanu, fluffy, Milan_Patel, burn, jesup, mreavy, hta, stefanh, RRSAgent, Zakim, richt, dom, derf, ed, trackbot, heath, Dweezahr,
16:02:59 <Zakim> ... Josh_Soref
16:03:00 <dom> Zakim, aaff is probably dan_romascanu
16:03:00 <Zakim> +dan_romascanu?; got it
16:03:06 <dom> Zakim, aaii is adambe
16:03:07 <Zakim> +adambe; got it
16:03:07 <Zakim> + +1.610.889.aakk
16:03:37 <jesup> zakim, aakk is me
16:03:37 <Zakim> +jesup; got it
16:03:39 <dom> Zakim, aaaa is fluffy
16:03:39 <Zakim> +fluffy; got it
16:03:41 <Richard> Richard has joined #webrtc
16:03:49 <fluffy> Zkaim, aaaa is fluffy
16:03:56 <fluffy> Zakim, aaaa is fluffy
16:03:56 <Zakim> sorry, fluffy, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
16:04:12 <fluffy> zakim, aaaa is me
16:04:12 <Zakim> sorry, fluffy, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
16:04:25 <fluffy> thanks dom
16:04:36 <Zakim> + +91.22.39.14.aall
16:06:39 <dom> ScribeNick: adambe
16:06:52 <adambe> stefanh: let's get started
16:06:59 <stefanh> http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/wiki/Teleconferences#Thu.2C_Jan_10_2013
16:07:01 <adambe> ... I've pasted the link to the agenda
16:07:02 <tuexen> tuexen has joined #webrtc
16:07:03 <Zakim> + +33.6.85.56.aamm
16:07:11 <adambe> ... any comments/objections to the agenda
16:07:13 <dom> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/wiki/Teleconferences#Thu.2C_Jan_10_2013
16:07:28 <dom> Topic: Minutes approval
16:07:29 <adambe> ... we need to aprove the minutes
16:07:35 <adambe> ... any objections?
16:07:37 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
16:07:40 <stefanh> minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webrtc/2012Dec/0048.html
16:07:57 <adambe> ... I consider the minutes approved
16:08:11 <adambe> ... we're ending the technical session at the hour
16:08:14 <JeromeMarcon> JeromeMarcon has joined #webrtc
16:08:21 <Zakim> + +1.425.893.aann
16:08:26 <dom> Topic: Statistics API
16:08:29 <adambe> ... and discuss how we use the f2f time in February
16:08:39 <juberti> juberti has joined #webrtc
16:08:40 <adambe> hta: I'm assuming that everyone has read the proposal
16:08:41 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webrtc/2012Dec/att-0013/RTCWEBStatsv2.pdf Stats API proposal
16:08:47 <juberti> Zakim, who's here?
16:08:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see fluffy, +1.908.578.aabb, Dan_Burnett, hta, stefanh, +972.9.957.aaee, Milan_Patel, dom, dan_romascanu?, derf (muted), Dan_Druta, adambe, +1.630.423.aajj, jesup,
16:08:51 <Zakim> ... +91.22.39.14.aall, +33.6.85.56.aamm, [Mozilla], +1.425.893.aann
16:08:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see juberti, JeromeMarcon, tuexen, Richard, adambe, DanD, nstratford, dan_romascanu, fluffy, Milan_Patel, burn, jesup, mreavy, hta, stefanh, RRSAgent, Zakim, richt, dom,
16:08:51 <Zakim> ... derf, ed, trackbot, heath, Dweezahr, Josh_Soref
16:09:04 <juberti> Zakim, aann is juberti
16:09:04 <Zakim> +juberti; got it
16:09:10 <adambe> ... the most important part is that we've changed the returned report
16:09:15 <Zakim> - +91.22.39.14.aall
16:09:19 <adambe> ... away from the local - report format
16:09:20 <Zakim> + +1.831.440.aaoo
16:09:25 <adambe> ... into a rtc stats object
16:09:32 <adambe> ... with operators
16:09:48 <adambe> ... the second part is documentation format
16:09:58 <matthew> matthew has joined #webrtc
16:10:01 <adambe> ... we use WebIDL to describe what the data objects are
16:10:24 <adambe> ... the third part is a few suggestions for stat objects
16:10:33 <adambe> ... that would be part of an actual implementation
16:10:48 <adam> adam has joined #webrtc
16:10:50 <adambe> ... I hope for this meeting that we can get agreement that the approach is right enough
16:11:10 <adambe> ... and that we can get it into the  spec
16:11:38 <JeromeMarcon> +33.6.85.56.aamm = Jerome Marcon
16:11:39 <adambe> ... we can work out the the details as we move on
16:11:39 <Zakim> - +1.908.578.aabb
16:11:44 <dom> Zakim, aamm is JeromeMarcon
16:11:44 <Zakim> +JeromeMarcon; got it
16:11:46 <adambe> ... that was the intro.. questions?
16:11:48 <jesup> q+
16:11:52 <adam> adam has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/wiki/Teleconferences
16:12:00 <dom> s/WebIDL/WebIDL dictionaries/
16:12:06 <dom> ack jesup
16:12:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:12:21 <adambe> jesup: in general I don't have a problem with the design
16:12:30 <nstratford> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:12:31 <Zakim> +nstratford; got it
16:12:32 <adambe> ... how much data could be associated with these objectsL
16:12:39 <adambe> s/L/?/
16:12:57 <adambe> ... there might be cases where you want hight detail.. it could be a lot of data
16:13:05 <Zakim> + +91.22.39.14.aapp
16:13:21 <adambe> ... we need to make sure people understand that stats could generate a lot of data
16:13:37 <adambe> hta: we will end up with quite a few objects
16:13:44 <adambe> ... defaul will be grab em all
16:13:55 <adam> Zakim: who's here
16:14:05 <adambe> ... probably in the 10s of kb range
16:14:20 <Zakim> + +44.190.881.aaqq
16:14:25 <adambe> jesup: we have the space issue.. may not be that big
16:14:32 <adam> Zakim: who's here?
16:14:52 <adambe> ... grabing a lot of data that you don't need can hurt you
16:14:56 <adambe> hta: yes
16:15:19 <adambe> ... I'm been thinking of this in 10s of seconds basis
16:15:22 <AndyH> AndyH has joined #webrtc
16:15:32 <fluffy> q+
16:15:39 <adambe> ... if ppl want to do this 100 times a second we're in trouble
16:15:45 <adam> Zakim, who's here?
16:15:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see fluffy, Dan_Burnett, hta, stefanh, +972.9.957.aaee, Milan_Patel, dom, dan_romascanu?, derf (muted), Dan_Druta, adambe, +1.630.423.aajj, jesup, JeromeMarcon,
16:15:48 <Zakim> ... [Mozilla], juberti, +1.831.440.aaoo, nstratford, +91.22.39.14.aapp, +44.190.881.aaqq
16:15:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see AndyH, adam, matthew, juberti, JeromeMarcon, tuexen, Richard, adambe, DanD, nstratford, dan_romascanu, fluffy, Milan_Patel, burn, jesup, mreavy, hta, stefanh,
16:15:48 <Zakim> ... RRSAgent, Zakim, richt, dom, derf, ed, trackbot, heath, Dweezahr, Josh_Soref
16:15:57 <juberti> q+
16:15:57 <adambe> jesup: I'm worried about the size of deep copy operatios
16:15:59 <dom> ack fluffy
16:16:09 <adambe> fluffy: I think this is an issue in selecting stats
16:16:11 <adam> Zakim, [Mozilla] is me
16:16:11 <Zakim> +adam; got it
16:16:25 <adambe> ... I have a nit with the timestamp
16:16:29 <adambe> ... otherwise, I like it
16:16:39 <adambe> juberti: I like this too
16:16:43 <jesup> cullen++
16:16:52 <adambe> ... the question is how we select stats
16:17:09 <adambe> ... We could have an option to say "just give me ICE stats"
16:17:15 <adambe> ... transport info
16:17:30 <adambe> ... maybe we need a more general way to express what we want to collect stats about
16:17:49 <adambe> hta: the selector object started of as an any type
16:18:29 <adambe> ... to make it flexible
16:18:50 <adambe> juberti: I don't know how the syntax would look
16:19:17 <adambe> hta: I'd like to look at the use cases
16:19:43 <adambe> stefanh: any more comments questions?
16:20:00 <adambe> ... ppl seem to be pretty happy with this
16:20:30 <dom> [the WebIDL has syntax errors, but I assume the editors will take care of it]
16:20:33 <adambe> ... does anyone have anything against integrating the API into the spec
16:20:41 <adambe> fluffy: I can do that
16:21:18 <dom> q+ to ask about implementation plans
16:21:18 <adambe> stefanh: I conclude that we should start integrating the new stats API into the spec
16:21:22 <fluffy> I think the action is roughly me to move the API part of RTCWEBStatsv2.pdf proposal into spec
16:21:34 <adambe> stefanh: nex topic is error handling
16:21:35 <dom> q-
16:21:39 <dom> Topic: Error handling
16:21:40 <adambe> burn: I sent some  slides to the list
16:21:47 <adam> http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/wiki/File:20130110error_handling.pdf
16:21:55 <dom> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/wiki/File:20130110error_handling.pdf Error Handling slides
16:22:18 <tuexen> tuexen has left #webrtc
16:22:18 <adambe> ... before december there hadn't been so much discussion about error handling
16:22:31 <adambe> ... the behaviour wasn't consistent between our documents
16:23:03 <jesup> Agreed justin's suggestion is an option and solves the size issue.  If you need links to other parts, you could tell it to include the other part.   Downside is complexity.  Perhaps use selection only for adding non-baseline items (packet-level stats, histogram data, etc)
16:23:05 <adambe> ... I'll cover the main topics
16:23:14 <jesup> that was on the stats issue
16:23:27 <fluffy> q?
16:23:47 <juberti> q-
16:23:48 <stefanh> stefanh has joined #webrtc
16:25:02 <adambe> ... anant had proposed.. exceptions and callbacks
16:25:29 <adambe> ... detectable within < 50 ms should be an exception
16:25:40 <adambe> fluffy: we talked about that and discarded it
16:26:08 <adambe> burn: we throw an exception on a bad argument
16:26:16 <adambe> ... and at illegal state
16:26:30 <adambe> ... otherwise we use the error callback
16:26:47 <hta> q+
16:26:48 <adambe> ... I want to make sure we agree on this
16:26:51 <juberti> q+
16:27:02 <adambe> hta: two comments
16:27:28 <dom> [based on https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/domcore/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#error-names-0, the name should be 	INVALID_STATE_ERR rather than 	INVALID_STATE]
16:27:57 <dom> [TypeMismatch is enforced by WebIDL in any case]
16:28:25 <adambe> ... there might be other cases than bad arguments and state
16:28:47 <dom> q+ to remind that the thumbrule is about context-dependent or not
16:28:52 <hta> q-
16:28:57 <adambe> burn: browsers could do better but our guidelines says don't do that
16:29:37 <adambe> fluffy: last time we came to the conclusion time wasn't relevant here
16:29:43 <dom> Zakim, who's noisy?
16:29:44 <jesup> cullen++
16:29:54 <Zakim> dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: JeromeMarcon (36%), fluffy (29%), +91.22.39.14.aapp (53%)
16:29:59 <adambe> ... it's more about on which thread something is executed
16:30:02 <dom> Zakim, mute aapp
16:30:02 <Zakim> +91.22.39.14.aapp should now be muted
16:31:03 <dom> +1 to juberti
16:31:05 <dom> q-
16:31:10 <adambe> juberti: I agree with fluffy that it shouldn't be based on a time
16:31:14 <jesup> juberti++
16:31:48 <adambe> ... exceptions are programming errors and exceptions are runtime errors
16:32:05 <adambe> second exceptions should be error callbacks
16:33:26 <adambe> burn: we should change the quidelines to say that exceptions are thrown on programming errors
16:33:42 <dom> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: exceptions are thrown upon programming errors (for example invalid argument types or call in an invalid state); other errors are pushed as error callbacks
16:33:43 <adam> q+
16:33:44 <adambe> fluffy: I find this very abstract
16:34:20 <adambe> burn: we need guidelines to avoid this discussion again
16:35:05 <adam> q-
16:35:21 <adambe> dom: I don't think we're changing the guidelines.. perhaps reformulating them
16:36:45 <adambe> fluffy: I think we're missing too much people in this call
16:37:05 <adambe> ... to change what we decided in a meeting with a lot more people
16:37:22 <dom> " So decided that invalid_state will be a callback no exception" http://www.w3.org/2012/10/29-webrtc-minutes.html#item04
16:37:35 <adambe> stefanh: could someone propose a change based on what we've talked about in this meeting
16:38:34 <adambe> fluffy: I don't think we've agreed to anything here
16:38:51 <adambe> stefanh: I think we need specific text in the form of an email
16:39:00 <hta> action justin: draft guideline text
16:39:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-79 - Draft guideline text [on Justin Uberti - due 2013-01-17].
16:39:39 <adambe> burn: I went through the document that doesn't have callbacks
16:40:08 <adambe> ... the resulting list is on slide 7
16:40:39 <adambe> ... I've underlined 4 of them
16:40:51 <adambe> ... but I don't remember fully what that meant
16:41:26 <dom> [updateIce makes reference to a "failure callback", but it's not clear which callback, since updateIce itself doesn't take a callback param http://dev.w3.org/2011/webrtc/editor/webrtc.html#widl-RTCPeerConnection-updateIce-void-RTCConfiguration-configuration-MediaConstraints-constraints ]
16:41:34 <juberti> +juberti
16:41:57 <adambe> ... question: do updateIce and addIceCandidate need callbacks
16:42:17 <adambe> juberti: I don't think these specific methods need callbacks
16:42:41 <dom> s/these specific methods need/addIceCandidate needs/
16:43:08 <adambe> fluffy: thread boundaries might need to be crossed to find out if a candidate have a bad line number
16:43:36 <dom> (could also be an oniceerror event)
16:43:51 <adambe> juberti: an exception wouldn't be appropriate in that case
16:44:14 <adambe> dom: we colud have an ice error event
16:45:01 <adam> juberti: +1
16:45:02 <timpanton> timpanton has joined #webrtc
16:45:24 <adambe> juberti: we should report errors consistently between addIceCandidate() and, e.g., setLocalDesc
16:45:29 <jesup> q+
16:45:38 <adambe> burn: I agree with juberti
16:46:24 <adambe> juberti: events happen asyc that may not be a result of a function call
16:46:52 <timpanton> timpanton has left #webrtc
16:47:29 <adambe> fluffy: I think we're fairly consistent on this
16:47:36 <fluffy> q?
16:47:40 <jesup> q-
16:47:51 <adambe> jesup: I think this sounds resonable
16:48:10 <hta> q+
16:48:19 <hta> q-
16:48:21 <jesup> justin++
16:48:21 <hta> justin said it
16:48:27 <fluffy> +1
16:48:45 <adambe> juberti: we need the success callback to know when we can stop waiting for the error callback
16:49:33 <jesup> one function call -> leads to one callback (either error or success)
16:49:39 <adambe> dom: the success callback might not give much.. we could go with one callback for both cases
16:49:50 <adambe> burn: we've talked about this before
16:50:00 <adambe> ... the first thing would always be to check for an error
16:50:17 <adambe> dom: I remember that conclusion
16:50:30 <adambe> ... but that might have been under other circumstanses
16:51:18 <adambe> dom: in geolocation you get the position in the success callback
16:51:29 <adambe> q+
16:51:35 <juberti> q-
16:52:08 <dom> [hixie recently highlighted the pain of having a useless parameter in pushState]
16:52:15 <juberti> same for createOffer and createAnswer
16:53:45 <stefanh> q+
16:53:47 <fluffy> q+
16:54:22 <adambe> adambe: do we need to listen to the success cb and not continue before we get it or is it OK to ignore it
16:54:52 <fluffy> q-
16:55:07 <stefanh> q-
16:55:26 <adambe> dom: I'm not aware of any other web api that does this, but this may not be the best time to bring up this discussion again
16:55:33 <adambe> q?
16:55:39 <adambe> Zakim: ack me
16:55:45 <adambe> q?
16:55:49 <dom> q- adambe
16:57:22 <juberti> q+
16:57:27 <dom> "getIdentityAssertion Initiates the process of obtaining an identity assertion." http://dev.w3.org/2011/webrtc/editor/webrtc.html#widl-RTCPeerConnection-getIdentityAssertion-void
16:57:45 <adambe> fluffy: ask ekr to clarify if getIdentityAssertion() need callbacks
16:58:08 <adambe> burn: that operation is optional
16:58:30 <dom> [I think burn should send his analysis by email to kickstart the discussions :) ]
16:58:36 <adambe> ... I would encourage other ppl to look at this as well
16:59:17 <adambe> ... anything that updates sdp needs to be queued
17:00:02 <adambe> burn: if something needs to  queue, it can't return right away
17:00:21 <adambe> juberti: anything that mutaates sdp would fall into that bucket
17:00:33 <adambe> stefanh: but not until createOffer is issued right?
17:00:58 <adambe> juberti: I agree that addIceCandidate might need a callback for completeness
17:01:35 <dom> [the constructor should also have a callback then, shouldn't it?]
17:01:35 <adambe> ... udateIce takes the same arguments as the PeerConnection constructor
17:01:47 <adambe> ... and it doesn't have a error callback
17:01:55 <stefanh> q?
17:01:59 <adambe> ... we might want to change addIceCandidate
17:02:09 <juberti> be right back
17:02:13 <Zakim> -juberti
17:02:17 <dom> re updateIce, the spec says "an RTCError object of type INCOMPATIBLE_CONSTRAINTS is provided to the failure callback if the constraints could not be successfully applied."
17:02:18 <adambe> fluffy: if you give a bad password to the turn server
17:02:39 <adambe> ... we need an error for that case
17:02:59 <jesup> createDataChannel is supposed to be synchronous; it (for consistency with WebSockets) it fires an onopen when the channel opens and the object can't be used to transfer until then
17:04:00 <adambe> burn: there are other proposals for error handling
17:04:07 <adambe> ... ppl should review them
17:04:16 <Zakim> + +1.425.893.aarr
17:04:56 <adambe> hta: juberti and I can look at it with our chrome eyes
17:05:05 <juberti> Zakim, aarr is +juberti
17:05:05 <Zakim> ++juberti; got it
17:05:09 <adambe> ... I wolud like to hear an opinion from Mozilla
17:05:20 <juberti> Zakim, aarr is juberti
17:05:20 <Zakim> sorry, juberti, I do not recognize a party named 'aarr'
17:05:29 <juberti> Zakim, +juberti is juberti
17:05:29 <Zakim> +juberti; got it
17:05:35 <adambe> burn: anyone from Mozilla on the call?
17:05:48 <dom> ACTION: juberti to review needs for callback and errors callbacks in webrtc (with hta)
17:05:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-80 - Review needs for callback and errors callbacks in webrtc (with hta) [on Justin Uberti - due 2013-01-17].
17:05:55 <dom> ACTION: jesup to review needs for callback and errors callbacks in webrtc (with hta)
17:05:55 <trackbot> Error finding 'jesup'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/track/users>.
17:06:04 <adambe> jesup: we will look at it as a team (at Mozilla)
17:06:54 <dom> ACTION: derf to review needs for callback and errors callbacks in webrtc (with hta)
17:06:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-81 - Review needs for callback and errors callbacks in webrtc (with hta) [on Timothy Terriberry - due 2013-01-17].
17:06:59 <adambe> fluffy: we need to go through all calls and sort out what needs to produce errors
17:07:08 <Zakim> - +1.831.440.aaoo
17:07:20 <adambe> burn: we want this to be consistent between the specs
17:07:44 <adambe> burn: that's all about error handling for today
17:08:04 <matthew> (was on call, but have conflict now)
17:08:10 <adambe> stefanh: we're moving on to the organizational section
17:08:12 <dom> ScribeNick: fluffy
17:08:17 <dom> Topic: Scribing procedures
17:08:28 <fluffy> Discussion around scribing procedures
17:08:32 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webrtc/2013Jan/0035.html A proposal on minute-takers for the WEBRTC WG meetings
17:08:34 <fluffy> see HTA proposal to list
17:09:22 <fluffy> We are not getting volunteers,, so we make a random list and work down it
17:10:07 <fluffy> Dan: when someone scribes, their names goes to bottom of the list. If someone is not there or presenting, they stay at top of the list
17:10:37 <fluffy> charis: plan to use that proposal
17:10:47 <fluffy> Next topic: schedule
17:11:14 <fluffy> chairs wondering about WG LC in Q3 this year
17:11:28 <fluffy> hta: this depends on output of GUM
17:11:36 <dom> s/Next topic/Topic/
17:11:44 <fluffy> … can not sent GUM to LC until after face
17:12:07 <fluffy> stefanh: have dependencies on IETF specs
17:12:37 <fluffy> hta: some of it can be done without IETF being done, some of it we can not
17:13:29 <fluffy> dom: Our charter says we would be done by now and we need to update and review by AC
17:13:52 <fluffy> … A lot of people with expectation need fought estimates of when this will be done
17:14:15 <fluffy> … If we have reasonable objectives, it will easier to focus on getting things done
17:15:35 <hta> zakim, who is making noise?
17:15:46 <Zakim> hta, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: fluffy (14%)
17:16:23 <fluffy> fluffy: suggest we write down a schedule to try and estimate when we would be done
17:16:24 <dom> ACTION: stefanh to develop more granular estimate for schedule of WebRTC with hta
17:16:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-82 - Develop more granular estimate for schedule of WebRTC with hta [on Stefan Håkansson - due 2013-01-17].
17:17:45 <fluffy> hta: It's not the work that is creating long time line , it is the periods of waiting. Possible to get done faster, if people, especially editors rapid turn around cycle and people, especially chairs, keep the formal things that need to be done lined up and moving. We need to work on that, as always
17:18:22 <dom> Topic: F2F
17:18:27 <fluffy>  Topic: face to face meeting
17:18:43 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webrtc/2013Jan/0000.html Proposed Interim Agenda from EKR
17:19:12 <fluffy> stefanh: EKR proposed to use more time on media capture on email to list. What do people think of that?
17:19:25 <fluffy> crikets: <silence>
17:19:33 <Zakim> -dan_romascanu?
17:19:46 <fluffy> justing: makes sense to finish that
17:20:01 <dan_romascanu> still here
17:20:03 <fluffy> s/justing/juberti/
17:20:40 <fluffy> hta: The more we can get things like error handling sketch out, the better
17:22:08 <fluffy> stefanh: on the webrtc part of EKR's proposal
17:22:29 <fluffy> … chairs will use this as starting point for more detailed agenda
17:26:47 <fluffy> Fluffy asked about good standing process. Dom and other explained a bit. Chairs hope to never need to use it.
17:27:30 <Zakim> -dom
17:27:31 <Zakim> -JeromeMarcon
17:27:33 <Zakim> -juberti
17:27:34 <Zakim> -adambe
17:27:34 <Zakim> -adam
17:27:35 <Zakim> -Milan_Patel
17:27:35 <Zakim> -stefanh
17:27:35 <Zakim> -Dan_Druta
17:27:36 <Zakim> - +972.9.957.aaee
17:27:36 <Zakim> -fluffy
17:27:36 <Zakim> -hta
17:27:36 <Zakim> -Dan_Burnett
17:27:37 <Zakim> -jesup
17:27:37 <Zakim> -derf
17:27:37 <Zakim> -nstratford
17:27:46 <dom> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:27:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-minutes.html dom
17:28:05 <dom> Zakim, list participants
17:28:05 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.403.244.aaaa, +1.908.578.aabb, Dan_Burnett, +46.8.50.51.aacc, +46.1.07.14.aadd, hta, stefanh, +972.9.957.aaee, Milan_Patel, dom,
17:28:06 <dom> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:28:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-minutes.html dom
17:28:09 <Zakim> ... +1.972.999.aaff, +91.22.39.14.aagg, +1.703.334.aahh, derf, Dan_Druta, +46.1.07.14.aaii, +1.630.423.aajj, dan_romascanu?, adambe, +1.610.889.aakk, jesup, fluffy,
17:28:09 <Zakim> ... +91.22.39.14.aall, +33.6.85.56.aamm, +1.425.893.aann, juberti, +1.831.440.aaoo, JeromeMarcon, nstratford, +91.22.39.14.aapp, +44.190.881.aaqq, adam, +1.425.893.aarr
17:28:15 <dom> Zakim, who's on the call?
17:28:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.630.423.aajj, +91.22.39.14.aapp (muted), +44.190.881.aaqq
17:28:20 <dom> Zakim, drop aajj
17:28:20 <Zakim> +1.630.423.aajj is being disconnected
17:28:22 <Zakim> - +1.630.423.aajj
17:28:23 <dom> Zakim, drop aaqq
17:28:23 <Zakim> +44.190.881.aaqq is being disconnected
17:28:25 <Zakim> - +44.190.881.aaqq
17:28:26 <dom> Zakim, drop aapp
17:28:26 <Zakim> +91.22.39.14.aapp is being disconnected
17:28:27 <Zakim> UW_WebRTC()11:00AM has ended
17:28:27 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.403.244.aaaa, +1.908.578.aabb, Dan_Burnett, +46.8.50.51.aacc, +46.1.07.14.aadd, hta, stefanh, +972.9.957.aaee, Milan_Patel, dom, +1.972.999.aaff,
17:28:27 <Zakim> ... +91.22.39.14.aagg, +1.703.334.aahh, derf, Dan_Druta, +46.1.07.14.aaii, +1.630.423.aajj, dan_romascanu?, adambe, +1.610.889.aakk, jesup, fluffy, +91.22.39.14.aall,
17:28:28 <Zakim> ... +33.6.85.56.aamm, +1.425.893.aann, juberti, +1.831.440.aaoo, JeromeMarcon, nstratford, +91.22.39.14.aapp, +44.190.881.aaqq, adam, +1.425.893.aarr
17:28:36 <dom> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:28:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-minutes.html dom
17:28:53 <dom> s/Zakim: who's here//g
17:29:18 <dom> s/Topic: F2F//
17:29:20 <dom> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:29:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-minutes.html dom
17:33:54 <dom> trackbot, end meeting
17:33:54 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:33:54 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:34:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:34:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-minutes.html trackbot
17:34:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:34:03 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-actions.rdf :
17:34:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: justin to draft guideline text [1]
17:34:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-irc#T16-39-00
17:34:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: juberti to review needs for callback and errors callbacks in webrtc (with hta) [2]
17:34:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-irc#T17-05-48
17:34:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jesup to review needs for callback and errors callbacks in webrtc (with hta) [3]
17:34:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-irc#T17-05-55
17:34:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: derf to review needs for callback and errors callbacks in webrtc (with hta) [4]
17:34:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-irc#T17-06-54
17:34:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: stefanh to develop more granular estimate for schedule of WebRTC with hta [5]
17:34:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-webrtc-irc#T17-16-24