Chatlog 2013-01-14

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14:57:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ldp
14:57:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/14-ldp-irc
14:57:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ldp
14:57:54 <Ruben> Zakim, who is here?
14:57:54 <Zakim> sorry, Ruben, I don't know what conference this is
14:57:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Ruben, SteveS, bhyland, MacTed, betehess, JohnArwe, stevebattle, jmvanel, Arnaud, bblfish, trackbot, Yves, sandro, ericP
14:58:19 <Ruben> Zakim, list
14:58:19 <Zakim> I see BusD_Digital()10:00AM, Team_(html-a11y-plan)14:05Z, SW_LDP()10:00AM active
14:58:22 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are SW_HCLS(Chairs)9:00AM, XML_SchemaW()10:00AM, WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM, UW_WebTVIG()10:00AM, MM_MMI()9:00AM, Team_SysWeb()10:00AM, SW_HCLS(Disc)10:00AM
14:58:39 <Ruben> Zakim, this is SW_LDP
14:58:39 <Zakim> ok, Ruben; that matches SW_LDP()10:00AM
14:58:47 <Ruben> Zakim, who is here?
14:58:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see TomDN, SteveBattle
14:58:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Ruben, SteveS, bhyland, MacTed, betehess, JohnArwe, stevebattle, jmvanel, Arnaud, bblfish, trackbot, Yves, sandro, ericP
14:58:53 <Ruben> Zakim, TomDN is me
14:58:53 <Zakim> +Ruben; got it
14:59:04 <Zakim> +??P4
15:00:46 <Zakim> +bblfish
15:00:55 <Zakim> +Arnaud
15:00:57 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #ldp
15:00:57 <bblfish> hi
15:01:01 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:01:06 <krp> krp has joined #ldp
15:01:11 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:01:11 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:01:12 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:01:12 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:01:14 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:01:18 <SteveS> zakim, [IBM] is me
15:01:18 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
15:01:47 <Kalpa> Kalpa has joined #ldp
15:01:59 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:02:11 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
15:02:14 <svillata> svillata has joined #ldp
15:02:52 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on here?
15:02:53 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Arnaud.
15:03:01 <Zakim> + +44.208.573.aaaa
15:03:08 <bblfish> zakim, who's present?
15:03:08 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, bblfish.
15:03:10 <roger> roger has joined #ldp
15:03:12 <Ruben> zakim, who is here?
15:03:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ruben, SteveBattle, ??P4, bblfish, Arnaud, MacTed (muted), SteveS, Sandro, JohnArwe, +44.208.573.aaaa
15:03:13 <Arnaud> Bonne Annee Bernadette! :)
15:03:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see roger, svillata, Kalpa, krp, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, Ruben, SteveS, bhyland, MacTed, betehess, JohnArwe, stevebattle, jmvanel, Arnaud, bblfish, trackbot, Yves, sandro,
15:03:15 <Zakim> ... ericP
15:03:26 <bblfish> hi
15:03:40 <Zakim> +??P19
15:04:17 <roger> zakim, I am ?aaaa
15:04:17 <Zakim> sorry, roger, I do not see a party named '?aaaa'
15:04:27 <roger> zakim, I am aaaa
15:04:27 <Zakim> +roger; got it
15:04:44 <krp> zakim, ??P19 is me
15:04:44 <Zakim> +krp; got it
15:04:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:05:00 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
15:05:01 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:05:11 <Yves> regrets, in another meeting...
15:05:12 <JohnArwe> zakim, aaaa is roger
15:05:12 <Zakim> sorry, JohnArwe, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
15:05:49 <Arnaud> zakim, pick a victim
15:05:49 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose SteveS
15:06:25 <Arnaud> zakim, who's here?
15:06:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ruben, SteveBattle, ??P4, bblfish, Arnaud, MacTed (muted), SteveS, Sandro, JohnArwe, roger, krp, AndyS
15:06:27 <cygri> cygri has joined #ldp
15:06:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see roger, svillata, Kalpa, krp, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, Ruben, SteveS, bhyland, MacTed, betehess, JohnArwe, stevebattle, jmvanel, Arnaud, bblfish, trackbot, Yves, sandro,
15:06:27 <Zakim> ... ericP
15:06:44 <Zakim> +MHausenblas
15:06:47 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is me
15:06:47 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:07:05 <bblfish> zakim, who is making noise?
15:07:17 <Zakim> bblfish, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P4 (4%), Arnaud (43%), JohnArwe (5%), AndyS (61%)
15:07:33 <SteveS> Scribe: SteveS
15:07:48 <SteveS> Topic: Minutes from 7-Jan-2013
15:08:17 <bblfish> how do you know that he was on irc Arnaud?
15:08:18 <SteveS> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2013-01-07
15:08:33 <nmihindu> nmihindu has joined #ldp
15:08:35 <bblfish> so what was his name in the irc log?
15:08:51 <SteveS> Arnaud: Trying to discover who is W782C
15:09:26 <bblfish> ah ok
15:09:31 <SteveS> from last meeting, we haven't identified this person/bot
15:09:55 <SteveS> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes 7-Jan-2013
15:09:58 <stevebattle> +1
15:10:08 <bblfish> +1
15:10:18 <SteveS> RESOLUTION: Approve minutes 7-Jan-2013
15:10:29 <Zakim> +??P26
15:10:38 <SteveS> Topic: Logistics of meetings, including F2F
15:10:54 <SteveS> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F2
15:11:25 <SteveS> Arnaud: opportunity to sponsor events
15:11:35 <SteveS> be sure to update whether you can attend or not on the wiki page
15:11:45 <Zakim> -??P4
15:11:56 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P26 is me
15:11:56 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it
15:12:17 <SteveS> there are a couple of options for rooms, one with a view and other with video conference
15:12:53 <SteveS> would prefer a bit view, though interested who would use or need video conference
15:12:53 <bblfish> Arnaud: MacTed says that "found this in local IRC logs...  [10:06:08 AM] *** W782C is now known as nmihindu" -- just repeating it because I am not sure /me end up being visible in the logs
15:13:11 <JohnArwe> nmihindu, you joined after a discussion that MacTed's logs suggest you might be related to.  Did you join last week as W782C ?
15:13:19 <SteveS> Sandro: unsure of the logistical details of the video conference, could send
15:13:37 <SteveS> video conf room can only fit about 9 people around the room
15:13:44 <sandro> s/room/table
15:13:59 <SteveS> Topic: Actions and Issues
15:14:12 <SteveS> ACTION-34?
15:14:12 <trackbot> ACTION-34 -- Steve Speicher to [EDITOR] Upate spec for resolution of ISSUE-12 PATCH for creation -- due 2013-01-15 -- OPEN
15:14:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/34
15:14:29 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
15:15:03 <SteveS> JohnArwe: has created wiki page for it already but not completely populated
15:15:28 <JohnArwe> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-34 is the link (resolves action 35)
15:15:34 <SteveS> ACTION-35?
15:15:34 <trackbot> ACTION-35 -- John Arwe to create wiki page for issue-34 proposals -- due 2013-01-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:15:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/35
15:15:45 <SteveS> CLOSE ACTION-35
15:15:45 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-35 Create wiki page for issue-34 proposals.
15:16:19 <Zakim> -bblfish
15:16:27 <nmihindu> JohnArwe, I joined last week, I thought I joined as nhihindu. But according to the log it was first W782C.
15:16:31 <JohnArwe> I also linked issue 34 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/34 to the new wiki page
15:16:45 <SteveS> ACTION-6?
15:16:45 <trackbot> ACTION-6 -- Michael Hausenblas to review SDshare -- due 2012-09-28 -- OPEN
15:16:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/6
15:17:06 <SteveS> Arnaud: not sure Michael can tend to it
15:17:21 <SteveS> recommend dropping it (closing it as no work done)
15:17:35 <stevebattle> +1
15:17:59 <SteveS> PROPOSAL: Close ACTION-6 as no conflict with SDshare
15:18:45 <Zakim> +bblfish
15:18:49 <SteveS> +1
15:18:55 <ericP> +1
15:18:55 <Arnaud> +1
15:18:58 <nmihindu> +1
15:19:02 <JohnArwe> +1
15:19:10 <MacTed> +1
15:19:17 <cygri> +1
15:19:22 <SteveS> RESOLUTION: Close ACTION-6 as no conflict with SDshare
15:19:29 <SteveS> CLOSE ACTION-6
15:19:29 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-6 Review SDshare.
15:19:32 <oberger> oberger has joined #ldp
15:19:42 <bblfish> wait
15:19:49 <bblfish> q+
15:20:42 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
15:21:00 <bblfish> Action-30?
15:21:00 <trackbot> ACTION-30 -- Steve Speicher to [EDITOR] check the LDP spec for examples in which relative URLs might be used -- due 2012-12-31 -- OPEN
15:21:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/30
15:21:06 <SteveS> bblfish: question on ACTION-30 and whether we should include a trailing slash on container URIs
15:21:46 <SteveS> SteveS: editor's will take feedback and incorporate it when finishing ACTION-30
15:22:10 <bblfish> the issue with Action-30 I was mentioning was http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Jan/0071.html
15:22:18 <bblfish> Action-43 ?
15:22:20 <SteveS> subTopic: Raised issues https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/raised
15:22:28 <trackbot> trackbot has joined #ldp
15:22:34 <SteveS> ISSUE-43?
15:22:34 <trackbot> ISSUE-43 -- hint at naming a resource on creation -- raised
15:22:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/43
15:22:59 <bblfish> ok
15:23:10 <bblfish> +1
15:23:11 <SteveS> PROPOSAL: Move ISSUE-43 to open
15:23:14 <stevebattle> +1
15:23:15 <SteveS> +1
15:23:16 <bblfish> +1
15:23:17 <Arnaud> +1
15:23:18 <krp> +1
15:23:22 <JohnArwe> +1
15:23:41 <nmihindu> +1
15:23:52 <roger> +1
15:23:58 <SteveS> RESOLUTION: Open ISSUE-43
15:24:04 <SteveS> OPEN ISSUE-43
15:24:11 <SteveS> REOPEN ISSUE-43
15:24:12 <trackbot> Re-opened ISSUE-43 hint at naming a resource on creation.
15:24:24 <SteveS> ISSUE-44
15:24:24 <trackbot> ISSUE-44 -- 4.1.9. is obscure or too restrictive -- raised
15:24:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/44
15:26:38 <JohnArwe> not seeing any link from the issue to SteveS's answer
15:26:41 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:26:41 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:26:41 <SteveS> bblfish: thinks it should be in best practices doc and is confusing
15:27:14 <AndyS> Could someone add links to email in the issue?
15:27:20 <bblfish> q+
15:27:26 <AndyS> You can edit the issue.
15:27:30 <bblfish> q-
15:27:56 <JohnArwe> ah - email discussion happened on wg list before issue was opened
15:27:56 <SteveS> MacTed: discussion might be lost if we don't have the thread, so should raise issue and then discussion
15:28:06 <bblfish> Ok, I should have done that.
15:28:11 <SteveS> or better to have summary of discussion, with link to detailed thread
15:28:24 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:28:24 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:29:01 <SteveS> PROPOSAL: Move ISSUE-44 to open
15:29:04 <MacTed> +1
15:29:05 <SteveS> +1
15:29:06 <Arnaud> +1
15:29:07 <bblfish> +1
15:29:08 <stevebattle> +1
15:29:17 <JohnArwe> MacTed were you suggesting a process change for the future as well?
15:29:26 <SteveS> RESOLUTION: Open ISSUE-44
15:29:32 <SteveS> REOPEN ISSUE-44
15:29:32 <trackbot> Re-opened ISSUE-44 4.1.9. is obscure or too restrictive.
15:29:35 <bblfish> Ok, next time I'll try to summarise it. I thought that this time the issue itself summarised my thread.
15:29:52 <bblfish> Initially when I brought this up, I was confused about this paragraph.
15:29:54 <SteveS> subTopic: Issues pending review, ISSUE-5
15:29:59 <SteveS> ISSUE-5
15:29:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-5 -- Add a section explaining how LDBP is related to Graph Store Protocol -- pending review
15:29:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/5
15:30:29 <SteveS> Arnaud: some discussion previously to move to this issue to postponed
15:30:32 <bblfish> +1 for postpone
15:30:47 <JohnArwe> ...e.g. raised issues could be discussed on the list using the tracker number so the links happen automagically, and if that discussion leads either to it not being opened or other actions, history is retained
15:31:18 <bblfish> q+
15:32:10 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
15:32:57 <SteveS> bblfish: better to postpone to have some time to implement and get some more feedback on what should be said in LDP
15:33:43 <SteveS> Arnaud: the SemWeb coordination call this came up as GSP and LDP
15:34:18 <SteveS> …Ian said key will be from implementers if they can implement both from same server and no conflicts
15:34:23 <SteveS> PROPOSAL: Move ISSUE-5 to postponed
15:34:25 <bblfish> +1
15:34:26 <SteveS> +1
15:34:31 <Arnaud> +1
15:34:33 <krp> +1
15:34:38 <nmihindu> +1
15:34:46 <JohnArwe> do see value in helping consumers decide which spec(s) to implement and why so +1
15:34:49 <MacTed> +1
15:34:56 <roger> +1
15:35:04 <SteveS> RESOLUTION: Postpone ISSUE-5
15:35:17 <SteveS> POSTPONE ISSUE-5
15:36:31 <SteveS> Topic: UC&R
15:36:50 <stevebattle> Thanks to SteveS for making the final corrections to UC&R
15:37:18 <SteveS> SteveS: Committed changes to respect biblio references and berjon committed.
15:37:21 <Ruben> Zakim, mute me
15:37:21 <Zakim> Ruben should now be muted
15:37:47 <SteveS> waiting for web team to publish, everything is ready
15:38:02 <SteveS> Topic: Spec status
15:38:59 <bblfish> Issue-37?
15:38:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open
15:38:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37
15:39:11 <SteveS> JohnArwe: has done some editing and updates in the spec
15:39:32 <SteveS> SteveS: haven't made changes for issue 25 resolution
15:40:27 <SteveS> Topic: ISSUE-37 wiki summary of LDP model
15:40:38 <bblfish> This is the wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-37
15:41:14 <SteveS> Arnaud: Erik has summarized with AtomPub model, SteveS has updated with LDP work
15:41:54 <bblfish> Issue-34?
15:41:54 <trackbot> ISSUE-34 -- Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation -- open
15:41:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/34
15:43:15 <SteveS> Arnaud:  The new proposal for aggregation should be around ISSUE-34 or others that are appropriate
15:43:16 <bblfish> q+
15:43:39 <SteveS> q+
15:44:04 <SteveS> Arnaud: Is there understanding as this is the approach?
15:44:15 <bblfish> q-
15:45:36 <SteveS> bblfish: thinks it will be helpful to map it to common concepts like filesystems, which may help people understand the model
15:46:30 <roger> +q
15:46:46 <SteveS> Arnaud: Erik used the AtomPub to help describe, expectation that others could contribute their views onto the wiki
15:46:52 <Arnaud> ack steves
15:47:51 <Arnaud> ack roger
15:48:10 <SteveS> q+
15:48:14 <JohnArwe> q+ we talk a lot with issue 37 about "the model" ... is there only one, once we get into the analogies?
15:48:33 <JohnArwe> q+ to ask we talk a lot with issue 37 about "the model" ... is there only one, once we get into the analogies?
15:49:07 <Arnaud> ack steves
15:49:38 <bblfish> I'll try to add a file system model as a point of comparison to see how it differs from the other two.
15:50:16 <bblfish> who is it?
15:50:29 <stevebattle> Roger
15:50:32 <JohnArwe> roger is speaking, if that's your question henry
15:50:36 <bblfish> thnx
15:50:45 <bblfish> ( that's why the queue is useful )
15:51:20 <SteveS> SteveS: thinks we should set a timeframe for review and get feedback, like Henry's proposal and Ashok's questions/feedback
15:51:46 <SteveS> roger: thinks we need a way like the wiki page to present alternative models, that have useful features
15:51:49 <Arnaud> ack John
15:51:49 <Zakim> JohnArwe, you wanted to ask we talk a lot with issue 37 about "the model" ... is there only one, once we get into the analogies?
15:52:58 <SteveS> SteveS: we have a model in LDP, the issue 37 is about just documenting it and framing any possible gaps, we still use issue tracking to get resolution of model changes
15:53:41 <bblfish> +1
15:54:00 <SteveS> JohnArwe: we are using the issue 37 page to help compare for completeness and good examples, we already have some placeholders for other issues (new or proposal)
15:54:11 <JohnArwe> q?
15:54:59 <SteveS> Arnaud: we need to review the feedback, like Ashok's, and ask if it can be allowed in the spec or not
15:55:42 <SteveS> JohnArwe: there isn't a binary choice on some of the questions, like it could be allows, explicitly forbidden, allowed in cases, or other cases
15:56:17 <Zakim> -bblfish
15:56:33 <SteveS> JohnArwe: hard to know when we intentionally are silent
15:57:15 <MacTed> apologies, all; I have a hard stop at 11 today.
15:57:21 <Zakim> -MacTed
15:57:27 <Zakim> +bblfish
15:57:48 <SteveS> Arnaud: what did you (JohnArwe) mean by alternatives in the issue 37 wiki page?
15:58:12 <sandro> sandro: the model is also important as a metaphor, which helps people understand it, and it gives people ideas/expectations about how it's going to work.    the filesystem is at this point a metaphor based on a metaphor.
15:58:28 <SteveS> JohnArwe: mostly just alternative ways to describe it and how it could be done/used
15:59:14 <bblfish> +1
15:59:25 <SteveS> Arnaud: progrèss on ISSUE-37, SteveS proposed give people some time to review
15:59:29 <bblfish> 1q+
15:59:31 <bblfish> 1+
15:59:32 <SteveS> by Jan 21?
15:59:33 <bblfish> q+
16:00:00 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
16:00:17 <SteveS> 21st is MLKjr day, some have off
16:00:25 <stevebattle> We should also add comparison criteria
16:00:36 <Zakim> -nmihindu
16:00:43 <SteveS> bblfish: plans to have new addition filesystem by next meeting
16:00:48 <stevebattle> (as per ericP's coments last week)
16:01:06 <stevebattle> s/coments/comments/
16:01:35 <SteveS> Arnaud have review by 28th
16:01:40 <SteveS> meeting is closed
16:01:41 <stevebattle> bye
16:01:47 <Zakim> -cygri
16:01:48 <Zakim> -SteveS
16:01:54 <Zakim> -bblfish
16:01:58 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:01:59 <Zakim> -roger
16:02:01 <Zakim> -ericP
16:02:01 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
16:02:02 <Zakim> -SteveBattle
16:02:02 <Zakim> -Arnaud
16:02:03 <AndyS> AndyS has left #ldp
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16:02:08 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:02:11 <Zakim> -krp
16:02:25 <Zakim> -Ruben
16:02:26 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
16:02:26 <Zakim> Attendees were SteveBattle, Ruben, bblfish, Arnaud, MacTed, SteveS, Sandro, JohnArwe, +44.208.573.aaaa, roger, krp, AndyS, cygri, nmihindu, ericP
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23:54:48 <Arnaud> rrsagent, make logs public
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