Chatlog 2012-09-24

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13:58:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ldp
13:58:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/24-ldp-irc
13:58:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:58:23 <sandro> trackbot, you have the worst parser I have ever seen.
13:58:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ldp
13:58:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
13:58:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started
13:58:26 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:58:26 <trackbot> Date: 24 September 2012
13:58:26 <trackbot> Sorry, sandro, I don't understand 'trackbot, you have the worst parser I have ever seen.'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
13:58:27 <Zakim> +stevebattle
13:58:37 <Zakim> +Sandro
13:58:41 <Zakim> +Arnaud
13:58:43 <sandro> Zakim, who is on the call?
13:58:45 <Ruben> Ruben has joined #ldp
13:58:47 <Zakim> +Ruben
13:58:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see stevebattle, Sandro, Arnaud, Ruben
13:58:51 <Zakim> +??P4
13:58:53 <Ruben> zakim, mute me
13:58:55 <Zakim> Ruben should now be muted
13:59:22 <svillata> zakim, ??P4 is me
13:59:22 <Zakim> +svillata; got it
13:59:54 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
14:00:02 <Zakim> +ericP
14:00:02 <dret> dret has joined #LDP
14:00:31 <Zakim> + +61.4.331.2.aaaa
14:00:43 <Zakim> +bblfish
14:00:51 <Zakim> +dret
14:00:58 <Zakim> +??P17
14:01:00 <ahaller2> zakim,+61.4.331.2.aaaa is me
14:01:00 <Zakim> +ahaller2; got it
14:01:05 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
14:01:10 <Zakim> +??P19
14:01:11 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
14:01:12 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
14:01:13 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
14:01:13 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
14:01:15 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #ldp
14:01:21 <AndyS> zakim, ??P19 is me
14:01:21 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:01:29 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:01:43 <jkopecky> jkopecky has joined #ldp
14:01:46 <bblfish> zakim, who is here?
14:01:47 <SteveS> zakim, [IBM] is me
14:01:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see stevebattle, Sandro, Arnaud, Ruben (muted), svillata, Ashok_Malhotra, ericP, ahaller2, bblfish, dret, ??P17, MacTed (muted), AndyS, [IBM]
14:01:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see jkopecky, bblfish, dret, Ruben, Zakim, RRSAgent, Arnaud, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, ahaller2, domel, svillata, AndyS, betehess, MacTed, stevebattle, nandana, oberger,
14:01:47 <Zakim> ... cgueret, ericP, trackbot, Yves, sandro
14:01:48 <roger> roger has joined #ldp
14:01:50 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
14:01:51 <oberger> zakim, ??P17 is me
14:01:53 <Zakim> +oberger; got it
14:02:18 <oberger> hi Arnaud 
14:02:23 <Zakim> +??P22
14:02:38 <jkopecky> zakim, ??P22 is me
14:02:38 <Zakim> +jkopecky; got it
14:03:22 <Zakim> + +44.208.573.aabb
14:03:30 <JohnArwe> JohnArwe has joined #ldp
14:03:37 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
14:03:44 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
14:03:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see stevebattle, Sandro, Arnaud, Ruben (muted), svillata, Ashok_Malhotra, ericP, ahaller2, bblfish, dret, oberger, MacTed (muted), AndyS, SteveS, jkopecky,
14:03:47 <Zakim> ... +44.208.573.aabb, JohnArwe
14:04:48 <Ashok_Malhotra> scribenick:  Ashok_Malhotra
14:04:52 <sandro> zakim, aabb is RogerMenday
14:04:52 <Zakim> +RogerMenday; got it
14:04:53 <Zakim> +Yves
14:05:09 <Ashok_Malhotra> Topic:  Admin
14:05:17 <Zakim> -ericP
14:05:37 <Ashok_Malhotra> Minutes of last meeting:  http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-09-17
14:05:44 <SteveS> +1 Sept 17 minutes
14:06:07 <Ashok_Malhotra> RESOLUTION:  Minutes of last meeting approved
14:06:13 <Zakim> +ericP
14:06:22 <Ashok_Malhotra> Arnaud:  Next meeting Oct 1
14:06:43 <Ashok_Malhotra> Topic:  f2f
14:06:45 <bblfish> q+ for TPAC
14:06:54 <Ashok_Malhotra> Arnaud:  Please register for TPAC
14:07:24 <roger> I plan to come to the F2F (RogerMenday) on the Thursday, but unfortunately not the Friday. 
14:08:03 <Ashok_Malhotra> Sandro: 16 people registerede now ... I will ask for a larger room
14:08:17 <bblfish> that's bad interface on the html page (sometimes you cannot uncheck some buttons)
14:08:25 <kalpa> kalpa has joined #ldp
14:08:39 <Ashok_Malhotra> s/registerede/registered/
14:08:53 <bblfish> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2012/SessionIdeas#WebID_and_RWWeb
14:08:54 <Arnaud> q?
14:09:22 <Ashok_Malhotra> Henry:  I put a session together for Wed that should interest folks
14:09:33 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
14:09:33 <Zakim> bblfish, you wanted to discuss TPAC
14:09:57 <bblfish> rww & webid community Monday, Tuesday.
14:11:13 <Zakim> + +1.937.279.aacc
14:11:17 <Zakim> -ericP
14:11:50 <kalpa> zakim, aacc is me
14:11:50 <Zakim> +kalpa; got it
14:12:06 <Ashok_Malhotra> Arnaud:  There are a lot of meetings at TPAC so folks will have conflicts
14:12:23 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
14:12:34 <Ashok_Malhotra> ... perhaps reserve a slot at LDP meeting
14:12:52 <Arnaud> q?
14:12:56 <Ashok_Malhotra> ... for WebID
#14:13:14 <Ashok_Malhotra> Topic:  Issues
14:13:32 <Ashok_Malhotra> Topic:  Open Actions
14:14:33 <ghard> ghard has joined #ldp
14:14:44 <Ashok_Malhotra> ACTION 10 is done ... close
14:14:44 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 10
14:15:04 <Ashok_Malhotra> Close ACTION-10
14:15:05 <trackbot> ACTION-10 Convert member submission to Editor's Draft, with support of JohnArwe and mhausenblas closed
14:15:59 <Ashok_Malhotra> Close ACTION-12
14:15:59 <trackbot> ACTION-12 Define Turtle as the required serialization format for LDP closed
14:16:03 <oberger> What's GSP ?
14:16:33 <Zakim> +??P39
14:16:34 <SteveS> GSP => Graph Store Protocol http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-http-rdf-update/
14:16:36 <sandro> GSP = SPARQL 1.1 HTTP Graph Store Protocol
14:16:47 <ghard> Zakim, ??P39 is ghard
14:16:47 <Zakim> +ghard; got it
14:16:50 <oberger> thx SteveS and sandro 
14:17:06 <ghard> Sorry I'm late.
14:17:10 <Ashok_Malhotra> Close ACTION-13
14:17:10 <trackbot> ACTION-13 Add topic on wiki on LDP vs GSP on home page closed
14:17:14 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Main_Page#Linked_Data_Platform_.28LDP.29_vs_SPARQL_Graph_Store_HTTP_Protocol_.28GSP.29
14:17:15 <JohnArwe> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Main_Page#Linked_Data_Platform_.28LDP.29_vs_SPARQL_Graph_Store_HTTP_Protocol_.28GSP.29 is the topic; I just updated the action with this link too
14:17:31 <Ashok_Malhotra> Topic:  Issues
14:17:43 <roger> roger has joined #ldp
14:18:57 <Ashok_Malhotra> Arnaud explains issue process
14:19:36 <bblfish> where is the URL for issue-2?
14:19:45 <JohnArwe> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/2
14:20:05 <Ashok_Malhotra> Andy: Issue-2 asks whether LDP will address versioning
14:20:11 <JohnArwe> (the agenda page has various links to the issues/actions lists)
14:20:45 <Ashok_Malhotra> Arnaud:  Keep it open
14:20:49 <bblfish> +1 for use case
14:21:03 <Ashok_Malhotra> Andy:  Need use cases and scenarios
14:21:29 <Ashok_Malhotra> Arnaud:  Andy can you provide a usecase
14:22:05 <Ashok_Malhotra> ACTION Andy to provide usecase for Issue-2
14:22:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-15 - Provide usecase for Issue-2 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-10-01].
14:22:16 <Ashok_Malhotra> Issue 2 is opened
14:22:26 <Ashok_Malhotra> Issue 3 is opened
14:25:24 <Ashok_Malhotra> Discussion on Issue 5
14:25:43 <Ashok_Malhotra> Yves:  WG can decided to put explanatory text in Wiki
14:25:50 <dret> q+
14:25:55 <JohnArwe> positioning "feels" more like wiki content to me... GSP etc will evolve, moving targets, easier to update if outside of spec
14:26:20 <SteveS> agree with wiki or WG Note if it gets more content
14:26:38 <Ashok_Malhotra> Yves:  We can even add a pointer from the WG home page
14:26:45 <JohnArwe> +1 having spec point to wiki for positioning
14:26:50 <Yves> FAQ entry
14:27:01 <Ashok_Malhotra> q+
14:27:46 <Arnaud> ack dret
14:27:48 <AndyS> ack dret
14:27:52 <Arnaud> ack Ashok
14:28:01 <stevebattle> q+
14:28:03 <dret> q-
14:28:14 <dret> q+
14:28:27 <Arnaud> ack steve
14:28:44 <stevebattle> q-
14:28:49 <Ashok_Malhotra> Ashok:  We could ask Schema WG if they have any thoughts on this
14:29:12 <SteveS> +1 for moving ISSUE-6 to open, as was going to raise as well based on previous feedback/discussion with bblfish
14:29:22 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-xsch-datatypes/  (XML Schema Datatypes in RDF and OWL)
14:29:47 <Ashok_Malhotra> Discussion on linking emails to issues
14:30:30 <Arnaud> q?
14:30:35 <Ashok_Malhotra> Yves:  The bot should take care of it
14:30:53 <Ashok_Malhotra> Eric:  Should have issue in title
14:31:58 <dret> q-
14:32:07 <Ashok_Malhotra> Open Issue-6
14:32:12 <JohnArwe> NP keeping the issue open, not sure I'd read LDBP to prohibit the use of user-defined data types (as an extension).  I thought it said only define specs in terms of a relatively small set of types that "everyone" should be able to support using OTS parts.
14:32:32 <Arnaud> q?
14:32:40 <JohnArwe> ... User-defined types could still be annotated through additional rdf:type predicates.
14:32:50 <Ashok_Malhotra> Topic:  Use Cases and Requirements
14:33:41 <bblfish> Don't think you can use rdf:type for datatypes.
14:33:51 <bblfish> A datatype is a function from a literal to a thing.
14:34:06 <Ashok_Malhotra> SteveBattle:  Will add usecases in 2 weeks and create editors draft just ahead of the meeting
14:34:06 <bblfish>  xsd:Int("2") = 2
14:34:16 <JohnArwe> ah ... "only" ... limiting, yes
14:34:59 <Ashok_Malhotra> ... and add any issues raised to tracker by Oct 8
14:35:04 <bblfish>  xsd:hexBinary("ad3") = xsd:int("2771") = 2771
14:35:22 <bblfish> that would be completely different from saying "ad3" is a HexBinary.
14:36:34 <JohnArwe> @bblfish: parse error ;-)
14:37:03 <bblfish> using the usual functional notation
14:37:10 <Ashok_Malhotra> Discussion on coordination between editors on Usecases document
14:37:44 <bblfish> "ad3"^^xsd:hexBinary  is a function from strings to ( heu, binaries not numbers, so true my above example was wrong )
14:37:57 <Arnaud> q?
<Ashok_Malhotra> Topic: Namespace and shortname to be used in spec
14:38:39 <oberger> +1 for shortname 'ldbp'
14:38:59 <sandro> no required connection between specs and namespaces.
14:39:13 <bblfish> you need a name for the ontology too right?
14:39:14 <Yves>  use http://www.w3.org/2012/09/<cute name> until is stabilize
14:39:28 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/ns/ldp 
14:39:57 <Ashok_Malhotra> Discussion of document URIs
14:40:05 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/ns/ldbp ?
14:40:44 <SteveS> +1 to going with /ns/ now with appropriate "draft" disclaimer
14:40:55 <AndyS> Have has a dated URI ever been updated? (successfully)
14:41:14 <bblfish> It depends a bit how much you think it is going to change
14:41:50 <bblfish> can one have a redirect from one namespace to another?
14:42:12 <stevebattle> I prefer LDP over LDBP.
14:42:16 <dret> nope, renaming them does not exist as a concept.
14:42:32 <Ashok_Malhotra> +1 to LDP
14:43:34 <bblfish> what's the b for?
14:43:40 <bblfish> ah basic
14:43:52 <bblfish> is this for the ontology btw?
14:44:10 <SteveS> LDP => Linked Data Platform (our WG name), LDBP => Linked Data Basic Profile (member submission name)
14:44:13 <oberger> basic profile doesn't convey anything for me
14:44:18 <ahaller2> +1 to LDP
14:44:31 <svillata> +1 to LDP
14:44:35 <oberger> user profile ?
14:45:01 <oberger> like BPR or BPC isn't easily identifiable to Linked Data Resource
14:45:07 <dret> think arnaud is right: we might have more than one spec, so just "using up" our WG name may be a bit premature
14:45:14 <MacTed> +1 LDP   if "basic" is needed we could go /ns/ldp-basic or /ns/ldp/basic or some such
14:46:30 <Arnaud> q?
14:46:55 <Ashok_Malhotra> Arnaud:  People seem to favor LDP for shortname
14:47:15 <bblfish> you could have ldp/basic
14:47:18 <bblfish> ldp/advanced
14:47:30 <bblfish> ldp/maddeninglyComplex
14:47:33 <oberger> Linux Documentation Project
14:47:35 <oberger> ;-)
14:47:36 <bblfish> ldp/ont/
14:47:50 <ericP> don't forget about ETLAs
14:47:59 <sandro> The Linux Documentation Project
14:48:05 <bblfish> well ldp, is going to replace the Linux Documentation project ;-)
14:48:22 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: use ldp for namespace name
14:48:24 <sandro> +1 ldp
14:48:28 <ericP> +1 to ldp
14:48:29 <jkopecky> +1 LDP
14:48:32 <stevebattle> +1 ldp
14:48:32 <oberger> so how do we name BPRs and BPCs ? 
14:48:34 <bblfish> Liberal Democrat Party
14:48:39 <Yves> ~0 
14:48:56 <dret> zero objections
14:48:58 <bblfish> Lucky Duck Productions
14:49:02 <SteveS> no objection
14:49:29 <sandro> +1 ns/ldp
14:49:37 <Ashok_Malhotra> RESOLUTION: use ldp for namespace name
14:49:40 <SteveS> jkopecky: not a bad suggestion
14:49:48 <stevebattle>  "/ns/ldp/bpr" "/ns/ldp/bpc" ?
14:49:55 <JohnArwe> * too bad there's a D in there, LP would be great for the (Monty Python reference warning) Looney Party
14:50:17 <jkopecky> (ldp) basic resource, (ldp) basic collection
14:50:26 <jkopecky> ldp/br ldp/bc
14:50:49 <Arnaud> q?
14:51:00 <oberger> LDBR and LDBC
14:51:08 <oberger> (container / collection ?)
14:51:29 <oberger> s/Basic/Core/ ?
14:52:10 <SteveS> oberger and jkopecky I have opinions and some history why things like container were used, trying to listen to discussion though
14:52:44 <bblfish> I think for the ontology it makes sense to have a stable namespace
14:52:56 <stevebattle> +1 undated /ns/
14:53:36 <sandro> Arnaud: If anyone supports using a dated URL for development, please speak up and argue for it....    
14:54:00 <JohnArwe> aside from adding a dollop of work on all document owners (editor of specs, test cases) to make One More Change at some future date, what's the Advantage of changing dated ns's?
14:54:06 <Ashok_Malhotra> Eric:  Re. document URIs ... we don't yet know how the material will be factored out
14:55:03 <sandro> sandro: I think it's okay to use LDP for now and if we change our mind later on, that's okay.   Leave /ns/ldp as *unused* if we are done with it.
14:55:05 <oberger> is anyone implementing really ?
14:55:13 <MacTed> real placeholders should be example.com/ns/...
14:56:41 <oberger> \o/
14:56:53 <bblfish> the WebID cert ontology is in ns http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#
14:57:06 <bblfish> and we chnaged it a bit - removing some terms, adding others
14:57:21 <SteveS> +1 for /ns/ldp/
14:57:33 <sandro> action: eric to confirm with W3C director that if we use /ns/ldp now, we'll be allowed to change to a different /ns/ later if there's a good reason.
14:57:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-16 - Confirm with W3C director that if we use /ns/ldp now, we'll be allowed to change to a different /ns/ later if there's a good reason. [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2012-10-01].
14:57:56 <stevebattle> I note that Eric's recent issue-6 test email has not been added as a related email yet.
14:58:32 <Ashok_Malhotra> Arnaud:  AOB?
14:58:34 <Arnaud> q?
14:58:48 <Ashok_Malhotra> MEETING ADJOURNED
14:58:50 <ghard> Cheers
14:58:59 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
14:59:01 <Zakim> -RogerMenday
14:59:04 <dret> thanks ashok, thanks arnaud!
14:59:06 <Zakim> -Ruben
14:59:10 <Zakim> -kalpa
14:59:12 <Zakim> -dret
14:59:15 <oberger> bye all
14:59:17 <Zakim> -ghard
14:59:19 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
14:59:20 <Zakim> -stevebattle
14:59:20 <Zakim> -SteveS
14:59:21 <Zakim> -MacTed
14:59:23 <Zakim> -AndyS
14:59:23 <kalpa> kalpa has left #ldp
14:59:25 <Zakim> -ericP
14:59:27 <Zakim> -jkopecky
14:59:29 <Zakim> -Yves
14:59:31 <Zakim> -Sandro
14:59:33 <Zakim> -Arnaud
14:59:35 <Zakim> -ahaller2
14:59:37 <Zakim> -bblfish
14:59:43 <Zakim> -oberger
14:59:49 <Zakim> -svillata
14:59:51 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
14:59:53 <Zakim> Attendees were stevebattle, Sandro, Arnaud, Ruben, svillata, Ashok_Malhotra, ericP, bblfish, dret, ahaller2, MacTed, AndyS, SteveS, oberger, jkopecky, +44.208.573.aabb, JohnArwe,
14:59:56 <Zakim> ... RogerMenday, Yves, +1.937.279.aacc, kalpa, ghard
15:08:31 <JohnArwe> JohnArwe has joined #ldp
16:01:59 <SteveS_> SteveS_ has joined #ldp
16:59:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ldp
17:01:45 <SteveS> SteveS has joined #ldp
17:09:43 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #ldp
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