Chatlog 2012-08-20

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13:57:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ldp
13:57:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/20-ldp-irc
13:57:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:57:02 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ldp
13:57:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
13:57:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started
13:57:05 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:57:05 <trackbot> Date: 20 August 2012
13:58:31 <Zakim> + +1.510.206.aaaa
13:58:33 <ghard> zakim, what is the conference code?
13:58:33 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ghard
13:58:36 <Zakim> -??P0
13:58:36 <Zakim> +??P0
13:58:42 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
13:58:48 <Zakim> +??P2
13:58:49 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
13:58:50 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
13:58:50 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
13:58:50 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
13:58:58 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p2 is me
13:58:58 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
13:59:02 <Zakim> +gavinc
13:59:04 <dret> zakim, +1.510.206.aaaa is me
13:59:07 <Zakim> +dret; got it
13:59:10 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
13:59:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, dret, MacTed (muted), BartvanLeeuwen, gavinc
13:59:12 <stevebattle> stevebattle has joined #ldp
13:59:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see stevebattle, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, dret, BartvanLeeuwen, svillata, ghard, antonis, MacTed, betehess, AndyS, SteveS, oberger, trackbot, sandro, Yves, ericP
13:59:17 <antonis> Zakim, ??p0 is me
13:59:19 <Zakim> +??P6
13:59:21 <Zakim> +antonis; got it
13:59:31 <Zakim> +sandro
13:59:50 <svillata> Zakim, ??P6 is me
13:59:50 <Zakim> +svillata; got it
14:00:17 <Zakim> +??P10
14:00:18 <Kalpa> Kalpa has joined #ldp
14:00:19 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:00:22 <AndyS> zakim, ??P10 is me
14:00:22 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:00:36 <SteveS> zakim, [IBM] is me
14:00:36 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
14:00:53 <Zakim> + +44.117.370.aabb
14:00:57 <Zakim> +RezaBfar
14:01:04 <Ashok_Malhotra> Ashok_Malhotra has joined #ldp
14:01:07 <Arnaud> Arnaud has joined #ldp
14:01:27 <Zakim> - +44.117.370.aabb
14:01:44 <Zakim> +Arnaud
14:01:57 <RezaBFar> RezaBFar has joined #ldp
14:02:00 <Zakim> + +1.937.775.aacc
14:02:11 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
14:02:14 <jkopecky> jkopecky has joined #ldp
14:02:24 <Zakim> + +44.117.370.aadd
14:02:36 <Kalpa> zakim, aacc is me
14:02:36 <Zakim> +Kalpa; got it
14:02:41 <Zakim> +??P24
14:02:51 <ghard> zakim, ??P24 is ghard
14:02:51 <Zakim> +ghard; got it
14:03:46 <Zakim> +??P27
14:03:58 <jkopecky> zakim, ??P27 is me
14:03:58 <Zakim> +jkopecky; got it
14:04:42 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:04:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see antonis, dret, MacTed (muted), BartvanLeeuwen, gavinc, svillata, sandro, AndyS, SteveS, RezaBfar, Arnaud, Kalpa, Ashok_Malhotra, +44.117.370.aadd, ghard,
14:04:46 <Zakim> ... jkopecky
14:05:16 <stevebattle> +44.117.370 is me
14:05:22 <MacTed> Zakim, aadd is stevebattle
14:05:22 <Zakim> +stevebattle; got it
14:06:53 <dret> http://www.w3.org/2008/04/scribe.html
14:08:04 <Zakim> + +1.778.588.aaee
14:08:16 <Zakim> + +1.512.433.aaff
14:09:14 <antonis> scribe: antonis
14:09:34 <Ashok_Malhotra> scribenick: antonis
14:09:50 <sandro> zakim, aaee is Lucas
14:09:50 <Zakim> +Lucas; got it
14:10:11 <sandro> zakim, aaff is Arthur
14:10:11 <Zakim> +Arthur; got it
14:10:47 <sandro> zakim, Arthur is Arthur_Keen
14:10:47 <Zakim> +Arthur_Keen; got it
14:11:10 <antonis> list of editors for use cases and requirements
14:11:29 <antonis> steve battle
14:12:04 <sandro> zakim, Lucas is Lucas_Panjer
14:12:04 <Zakim> +Lucas_Panjer; got it
14:12:30 <stevebattle> thankyou
14:13:16 <antonis> minutes from http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-08-06 approved
14:13:34 <antonis> wiki page for f2f meeting set up 
14:13:45 <Ashok_Malhotra> s/minutes/RESOLUTION:minutes/
14:14:06 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F1
14:14:26 <antonis> close action-8
14:14:26 <trackbot> ACTION-8 Set up wiki page for the F2F meeting closed
14:14:29 <antonis> :)
14:15:53 <LucasPanjer> LucasPanjer has joined #ldp
14:16:19 <antonis> at this point a parallel F2F in the US is not going to happen due to lack of interest
14:18:20 <antonis> particapants in the f2f need to register with TPAC
14:18:34 <antonis> http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/
14:20:47 <oberger> in case, there seems to be some interest from the WebID community group to meet participants of LDP
14:20:59 <oberger> some are participating to both, of course
14:21:18 <oberger> I meant, F2F in Lyon
14:21:32 <gavinc> -1 to meeting on labor day
14:21:35 <antonis> +1 for next monday
14:21:39 <stevebattle> August 27 is a bank holiday in the UK
14:21:46 <SteveS> -1 for labor day
14:21:52 <SteveS> +1 for Aug 27
14:22:01 <Ashok_Malhotra> Suggest next meeting Sept 10
14:22:01 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1 next monday ( might not make it )
14:22:36 <ghard> no preference
14:22:41 <MacTed> -1 Labor Day
14:22:41 <MacTed> +0 Aug 27 (I expect lower attendance putting a meeting now where we explicitly said none would be)
14:22:45 <svillata> no preference
14:22:45 <Zakim> -Lucas_Panjer
14:23:08 <MacTed> +1 pick up on Sept 10
14:23:14 <stevebattle> +1 uk
14:23:20 <AndyS> UK
14:24:12 <AndyS> Aug 27 is OK by me - it's a sensible time UK.
14:24:21 <RezaBFar> -1 for labor day
14:24:53 <AndyS> ... if there is a substantive issue to discuss.  AndyS at risk next week ... depends on the weather.
14:26:28 <Zakim> +ericP
14:26:37 <antonis> Use Cases and Requierements need work to become more coherent, consistent and on higher level so that we can track what we are doing wrt the document
14:26:53 <MacTed> Zakim, mute ericP
14:26:53 <Zakim> ericP should now be muted
14:27:10 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute ericP
14:27:10 <Zakim> ericP should no longer be muted
14:27:40 <stevebattle> q+
14:27:51 <Ashok_Malhotra> q+
14:27:59 <gavinc> +q to check if http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/SUBM-ldbp-20120326/ is still the input document?
14:30:04 <sandro> +1 stevebattle to discussing first if he feels like it
14:30:05 <gavinc> -q
14:30:37 <Arnaud> ack stevebattle
14:32:56 <stevebattle> Thanks for the feedback, Sandro
14:32:58 <stevebattle> q-
14:33:22 <SteveS> bblish (Henry Story) has ACTION-5 to propose non-rdf content additions to use cases
14:34:32 <MacTed> q+
14:34:43 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
14:34:43 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
14:34:45 <sandro> "This group is based on the idea of combining two Web-related concepts ... RDF ... and ... RESTful APIs".    Hard to see how that involved leaving out RDF.
14:35:00 <sandro> (first sentence in the document.)
14:35:08 <stevebattle> Do I have a declared action item to propose use-cases updates?
14:35:11 <ericP> +1 to at least one RDF serialization
14:35:15 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
14:35:26 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (44%), Arnaud (83%), Ashok_Malhotra (20%)
14:37:00 <ericP> q?
14:37:56 <Ashok_Malhotra> ack next
14:38:20 <sandro> zakim, mute ericP 
14:38:20 <Zakim> ericP should now be muted
14:38:53 <ghard> +1 LD != RDF
14:39:18 <ericP> q+
14:39:34 <sandro> zakim, unmute ericP 
14:39:34 <Zakim> ericP should no longer be muted
14:39:38 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
14:39:39 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
14:39:39 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
14:39:39 <dret> liking that interpretation of LD
14:39:42 <MacTed> ack me
14:39:45 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
14:39:45 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
14:39:48 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (5%), Arnaud (34%), Ashok_Malhotra (48%), jkopecky (5%), ericP (16%)
14:39:49 <SteveS> q+
14:40:02 <Ashok_Malhotra> +1 to Ted
14:40:14 <AndyS> The key must be universal ... = URIs.
14:41:04 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
14:41:14 <jkopecky> zakim, mute me
14:41:14 <Zakim> jkopecky should now be muted
14:41:17 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ashok_Malhotra (81%), jkopecky (5%), ericP (65%)
14:41:35 <Ashok_Malhotra> zakim, mute me
14:41:35 <Zakim> Ashok_Malhotra should now be muted
14:41:44 <sandro> q?
14:41:48 <sandro> q- ericP 
14:41:53 <sandro> q+
14:43:15 <gavinc> ack SteveS
14:43:45 <ArthurK> ArthurK has joined #ldp
14:43:48 <Zakim> -ericP
14:43:52 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
14:43:52 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
14:43:53 <MacTed> q+
14:44:06 <gavinc> sandro: quoting from charter "What is the minimum set of RDF datatypes that must be supported by clients and servers?"
14:44:19 <gavinc> sandro: quoting from charter "Which RDF serialization syntax (eg Turtle or JSON-LD) must be supported by clients and servers?"
14:44:58 <Arnaud> ack sandro
14:45:40 <RezaBFar> The proposal I had put forth 2 weeks ago was not to just create a separation between Model and Serialization the way other examples, for e.g. OMG or Prov did.  I was not saying that we exclude RDF, but this kind of thing would allow for accommodating non-RDF stuff later.  But, as Arnaud pointed, it didn't seem to get much response from the group.
14:45:51 <ArthurK> ArthurK has joined #ldp
14:45:54 <Arnaud> ack MacTed
14:46:06 <sandro> q+
14:46:22 <gavinc> +q to ask if there are other standards in Linked Data ... are we talking about Atom?
14:47:04 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
14:47:47 <sandro> "Which RDF serialization syntax (eg Turtle or JSON-LD)"
14:48:17 <ArthurK> Zakim, who is here?
14:48:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see antonis, dret, MacTed, BartvanLeeuwen, gavinc, svillata, sandro, AndyS, SteveS, RezaBfar, Arnaud, Kalpa, stevebattle, ghard, jkopecky (muted), Arthur_Keen
14:48:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see ArthurK, LucasPanjer, jkopecky, RezaBFar, Arnaud, Ashok_Malhotra, Kalpa, stevebattle, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, dret, BartvanLeeuwen, svillata, ghard, antonis, MacTed,
14:48:20 <Zakim> ... betehess, AndyS, SteveS, oberger, trackbot, sandro, Yves, ericP
14:48:28 <dret> maybe people should start *always* saying "RDF model" or "RDF syntax", just to avoid confusions from now on.
14:48:51 <Arnaud> q?
14:48:53 <sandro> except there is no RDF syntax, but, yes, point taken.
14:48:55 <sandro> q-
14:48:59 <sandro> ack gavinc 
14:48:59 <Zakim> gavinc, you wanted to ask if there are other standards in Linked Data ... are we talking about Atom?
14:49:38 <dret> ok, correcting that to say "some RDF sytax, whatever one you may prefer"
14:49:48 <dret> q+
14:49:50 <oberger> RDF+XML isn't hard to say 
14:50:06 <sandro> gavin: What experience is there with linked data OTHER than RDF?
14:50:28 <sandro> dret: What about the Web?   Isn't that linked data?
14:50:40 <AndyS> Where can we start?  Are there links other than URIs?
14:50:59 <sandro> gavin: Are we talking about extracting from HTML?   CSV?
14:51:18 <sandro> dret: To call anything that you're doing REST, it has to be linked.  How you represent your data is up to you.
14:51:36 <MacTed> CSV = file format, MIME type, a serialization...
14:51:36 <MacTed> says nothing about whether the data within that CSV is linked (intra- or inter- or extra-) or not
14:51:50 <sandro> dret: json or xml
14:52:21 <sandro> gavin: So, in that case, what would there be to standardize in "linked data" beyond just "rest" (as you're talking about it).
14:53:04 <sandro> dret: Our job would be to define th glue between those established restful patterns, and those doing RDF linked data, and wanting to expose that to a larger group of people -- wanting to expose that in a way that is consistent and can be reused, supported by software and frameworks.
14:53:54 <sandro> dret: RDF does not have a model of collections built in, so here is a way to support that.      So, the idea here is to bridge those gaps.    How do RDF folks expose certain concepts to the broader world.
14:54:47 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #ldp
14:59:08 <antonis> arnaud: our default approach should be to deliver what is set in the charter and that is RDF.  The idea of non-RDF linked data is interesting, but may be too big a problem to tackle
15:00:02 <RezaBFar> Sandro - do you think that's feasible or not?  You were involved in Prov I believe at some point.  I don't necessarily want to drag this out beyond a simple proposal of separation since a religious discussion is not productive.
15:00:06 <Zakim> -Arthur_Keen
15:00:16 <dret> arnaud: maybe layers (non-RDF and specifically RDF ) could be an option, but that could be hard to do
15:00:30 <Arnaud> q?
15:00:32 <RezaBFar> @Sandro - to be more specific, do you think separation of model and serialization is feasible or should we drop it?
15:00:37 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #ldp
15:00:38 <sandro> RezaBFar, I don't know if it's possible, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot more work.
15:00:55 <sandro> I'm a big fan or running, interoperable code.
15:01:03 <sandro> I'm a big fan of running, interoperable code.
15:01:14 <Arnaud> ack dret
15:01:48 <RezaBFar> Ok.
15:02:13 <stevebattle> q+
15:03:27 <antonis> next meeting: 27th Aug
15:03:28 <stevebattle> q-
15:03:36 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: next LDP meeting 27-August-2012
15:03:47 <dret> no meeting on labor day, then.
15:04:47 <Arnaud> action: stevebattle to propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document
15:04:47 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - stevebattle
15:05:09 <stevebattle> thanks
15:05:10 <ghard> Cheers
15:05:12 <antonis> bye
15:05:12 <dret> thanks everybody!
15:05:13 <BartvanLeeuwen> thank bye
15:05:15 <Zakim> -RezaBfar
15:05:16 <Zakim> -dret
15:05:18 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:05:19 <gavinc> ACTION: Steve to propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document
15:05:19 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Steve
15:05:19 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. sspeiche, sbattle2)
15:05:20 <Zakim> -SteveS
15:05:22 <Zakim> -antonis
15:05:23 <Zakim> -svillata
15:05:23 <Zakim> -ghard
15:05:26 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:05:28 <gavinc> ACTION: sbattle2 to propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document
15:05:28 <Zakim> -stevebattle
15:05:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-9 - Propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document [on Steve Battle - due 2012-08-27].
15:05:30 <Zakim> -jkopecky
15:05:32 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen
15:05:33 <Zakim> -Kalpa
15:05:35 <antonis> antonis has left #ldp
15:05:36 <Zakim> -sandro
15:05:38 <Zakim> -gavinc
15:05:40 <Zakim> -MacTed
15:05:42 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
15:05:42 <Zakim> Attendees were MacTed, BartvanLeeuwen, gavinc, dret, antonis, sandro, svillata, AndyS, SteveS, +44.117.370.aabb, RezaBfar, Arnaud, +1.937.775.aacc, Ashok_Malhotra,
15:05:42 <Zakim> ... +44.117.370.aadd, Kalpa, ghard, jkopecky, stevebattle, +1.778.588.aaee, +1.512.433.aaff, Arthur_Keen, Lucas_Panjer, ericP
15:05:58 <Kalpa> Kalpa has left #ldp
15:06:04 <Arnaud> oops, we now have the same action entered three times?
15:06:15 <dret> maybe we could make the date for ACTION-9 on friday, so that people can review the proposal before the meeting?
15:06:37 <sandro> Arnaud, ignore what RRSAgent said about ACTIONS.  It's only what trackbot says that's remembered.
15:06:56 <Arnaud> ah, ok
15:06:58 <Arnaud> thanks
15:07:18 <Arnaud> I think dret's suggestion is good
15:07:39 <MacTed> action-9?
15:07:39 <trackbot> ACTION-9 -- Steve Battle to propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document -- due 2012-08-27 -- OPEN
15:07:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/9
15:08:09 <MacTed> there's an edit link on that page (lower right) so you can change date or whatever appropriate
15:11:49 <stevebattle> stevebattle has joined #ldp
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