Chatlog 2012-07-23

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<sandro> Guest: Tom (TomDN) De Nies
14:00:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ldp
14:00:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/23-ldp-irc
14:00:40 <sandro> trackbot, start meeting
14:00:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 181
14:00:43 <Ruben> zakim, who is here
14:00:43 <Zakim> Ruben, you need to end that query with '?'
14:00:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
14:00:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:00:45 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
14:00:45 <trackbot> Date: 23 July 2012
14:00:52 <Ruben> zakim, who is here?
14:00:52 <Zakim> sorry, Ruben, I don't know what conference this is
14:00:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Arnaud, Ruben, domel, dret, svillata, betehess, MacTed, SteveS, trackbot, sandro, Yves, ericP
14:00:57 <sandro> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:01:15 <mkerrin> mkerrin has joined #ldp
14:01:24 <rgarcia> rgarcia has joined #ldp
14:01:40 <steve> steve has joined #ldp
14:01:54 <krp> krp has joined #ldp
14:01:59 <cygri> cygri has joined #ldp
14:02:14 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:14 <Zakim> sorry, cygri, I don't know what conference this is
14:02:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see cygri, krp, steve, rgarcia, mkerrin, RRSAgent, Zakim, Arnaud, Ruben, domel, dret, svillata, betehess, MacTed, SteveS, trackbot, sandro, Yves, ericP
14:02:21 <MacTed> trackbot, code?
14:02:21 <trackbot> Sorry, MacTed, I don't understand 'trackbot, code?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
14:02:28 <sandro> zakim, who is making noise?
14:02:28 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is
14:02:29 <MacTed> Zakim, code
14:02:32 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', MacTed
14:02:33 <MacTed> Zakim, code?
14:02:35 <sandro> zakim, this is ldp
14:02:37 <Zakim> sorry, MacTed, I don't know what conference this is
14:02:39 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_LDP()10:00AM
14:02:43 <sandro> zakim, who is making noise?
14:02:43 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P6, ??P5, TomDN, sandro, +44.117.370.aaaa, Arnaud, ??P11, [IBM], mhausenblas, +1.510.698.aabb, ??P20
14:03:02 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P20 (50%)
14:03:04 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
14:03:08 <cygri> zakim, mkerrin is with me
14:03:09 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
14:03:11 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #ldp
14:03:13 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is SteveS
14:03:15 <Zakim> +mkerrin; got it
14:03:17 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]
14:03:20 <bblfish> hi
14:03:21 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
14:03:26 <svillata> Zakim, ??P5 is me
14:03:28 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
14:03:29 <Zakim> +svillata; got it
14:03:30 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
14:03:30 <Ruben> I don't see my number on the list but I'm here… strange
14:03:32 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
14:03:36 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
14:03:37 <bblfish> Zakim, who is here?
14:03:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P6, svillata, TomDN, sandro, +44.117.370.aaaa, Arnaud, ??P11, SteveS, cygri, +1.510.698.aabb, ??P20, MacTed (muted)
14:03:46 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, mkerrin
14:03:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see bblfish, cygri, krp, steve, rgarcia, mkerrin, RRSAgent, Zakim, Arnaud, Ruben, domel, dret, svillata, betehess, MacTed, SteveS, trackbot, sandro, Yves, ericP
14:04:13 <bblfish> Zakim, aabb is me
14:04:14 <Zakim> +??P25
14:04:18 <Zakim> -TomDN
14:04:19 <JohnArwe> JohnArwe has joined #ldp
14:04:23 <Zakim> -??P20
14:04:24 <Zakim> +bblfish; got it
14:04:32 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
14:04:36 <krp> zakim, ??P25 is me
14:04:36 <Zakim> +krp; got it
14:04:38 <Zakim> +TomDN
14:04:40 <dret> Zakim, ??P6 is me
14:04:42 <Zakim> +dret; got it
14:05:08 <bblfish> Zakim is a robot
14:05:08 <JohnArwe> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:05:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, svillata, sandro, +44.117.370.aaaa, Arnaud, ??P11, SteveS, cygri, bblfish, MacTed (muted), krp, JohnArwe, TomDN
14:05:12 <Ruben> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:05:14 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, mkerrin
14:05:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, svillata, sandro, +44.117.370.aaaa, Arnaud, ??P11, SteveS, cygri, bblfish, MacTed (muted), krp, JohnArwe, TomDN
14:05:24 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, mkerrin
14:05:33 <Ruben> zakim, TomDN is me
14:05:36 <Zakim> +Ruben; got it
14:05:40 <Zakim> +??P29
14:05:47 <Ruben> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:05:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, svillata, sandro, +44.117.370.aaaa, Arnaud, ??P11, SteveS, cygri, bblfish, MacTed (muted), krp, JohnArwe, Ruben, ??P29
14:05:49 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, mkerrin
14:06:03 <rgarcia> zakim, ??P29 is me
14:06:03 <Zakim> +rgarcia; got it
14:07:41 <stevebattle> zakim, +44.117.370.aaaa is me
14:07:41 <Zakim> +stevebattle; got it
14:07:54 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
14:07:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, svillata, sandro, stevebattle, Arnaud, ??P11, SteveS, cygri, bblfish, MacTed (muted), krp, JohnArwe, Ruben, rgarcia
14:07:57 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, mkerrin
14:07:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see JohnArwe, bblfish, cygri, krp, stevebattle, rgarcia, mkerrin, RRSAgent, Zakim, Arnaud, Ruben, domel, dret, svillata, betehess, MacTed, SteveS, trackbot, sandro, Yves,
14:07:57 <Zakim> ... ericP
14:08:00 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #ldp
14:08:37 <bblfish> who is ??P11
14:09:04 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
14:10:17 <LeeF> Do we know how many people might be attending a US east coast location?
14:10:40 <sandro> no data, LeeF 
14:10:53 <LeeF> Well, speaking for myself, I couldn't even consider volunteering to host without an idea of that :)
14:11:20 <sandro> LeeF, I'd think you could offer to host up to 8 people or whatever.
14:11:33 <sandro> whatever's convenient for you.
14:11:34 <bblfish> I can scribe
14:11:42 <SteveS> F2F TPAC is 29 Oct - 2 Nov, LDP is scheduled for 1-2 Nov http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/
14:12:09 <boris> boris has joined #ldp
14:12:39 <bblfish> yes
14:12:47 <bblfish> but please help me along
14:12:51 <sandro> scribe: bblfish 
14:12:53 <bblfish> sometimes I fall asleep scribing
14:12:57 <sandro> :-)
14:13:15 <achille_zappa> achille_zappa has joined #ldp
14:13:16 <bblfish> No pending actions it seems
14:13:23 <Zakim> +??P37
14:13:24 <bblfish> starting... 
14:13:45 <boris> zakim, ??P37 is me
14:13:45 <Zakim> +boris; got it
14:14:09 <bblfish> we got this post from Michael are addresses by some spec called SDChair
14:14:12 <bblfish> URL?
14:15:22 <bblfish> someone just said they will send their thoughts to the group
14:15:39 <JohnArwe> that was steve speicher, aka steveS on IRC
14:16:06 <SteveS> http://www.sdshare.org/spec/sdshare-current.html
14:16:12 <bblfish> ah great thanks
14:16:37 <bblfish> IT looks like a very short spec
14:17:58 <bblfish> SDShare looks like it is also a proposal
14:18:42 <bblfish> Topic: Access Control
14:20:35 <bblfish> due to the discussion on the mailing list
14:21:42 <bblfish> someone is saying that one should get this base layer defined
14:22:06 <Zakim> +kalpa
14:22:15 <bblfish> access control https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/read-write-web/
14:23:44 <Arnaud> q?
14:23:51 <Zakim> -??P11
14:25:26 <bblfish> my argument was that I felt that the discussion came up on the use case because of a question of whether it was possible, so the read-write-web server shows that it is.
14:26:36 <bblfish> but the current speaker says that he started the discussion not because it was a question whether it was possible, ( there are many technologies he believes)
14:26:48 <cygri> cygri has joined #ldp
14:27:08 <JohnArwe> zakim, who is speaking?
14:27:19 <Zakim> JohnArwe, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
14:27:39 <bblfish> the idea is to come up with some profile of what such an authentication system would need to look like
14:27:46 <Arnaud> Erik Wilde aka dret
14:28:06 <bblfish> one should look for patterns of what this should look like with established technologies
14:28:24 <JohnArwe> interesting that zakim was unable to identify the speaker.
14:29:00 <bblfish>  ie: requirements for access control should be captured (and this is part of the ldp's deliverable)
14:29:07 <bblfish> zakim, who is speaking?
14:29:18 <Zakim> bblfish, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (20%), SteveS (79%)
14:29:21 <JohnArwe> steve speicher
14:29:45 <bblfish> Chair suggested we put up a wiki page to put down ideas 
14:30:38 <bblfish> Arnaud was suggesting to capture these requirements and put those ideas in the wiki page
14:30:55 <bblfish> ( I am not sure I understood SteveS's intervention before )
14:31:03 <bblfish> zakim, who is speaking?
14:31:14 <Zakim> bblfish, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: dret (19%), Arnaud (5%)
14:31:26 <bblfish> dret is suggesting that this be added as a use case
14:32:12 <bblfish> how do you express contraints for what kind of data should be transmitted
14:32:36 <SteveS> bblfish, To summarize, I was suggesting to expand on the use cases wrt to authen/access needs, then looking at what we need within the scope of our first round of deliverables
14:33:34 <bblfish> dret was saying that even though this is not clearly in the spec, one could think of auth as such a constraint
14:35:28 <dret> does anybody else have problems logging into the wiki, or is it just me?
14:35:55 <bblfish> I don't have a problem with putting it in the wiki as a use case. It's certainly something I am interested in it.
14:35:59 <bblfish> q+
14:36:46 <bblfish> Topic: Use Case and Requirements
14:38:39 <SteveS> I have contributed my use cases and requirements from the initial set, don't have any planned adds
14:39:26 <Zakim> -bblfish
14:39:29 <bblfish> oops
14:39:58 <domel> domel has joined #ldp
14:40:13 <Zakim> +bblfish
14:40:54 <bblfish> so my question was a use case for handling non RDF resources
14:41:38 <bblfish> Arnaud: a good use case to add
14:42:00 <Arnaud> q?
14:42:04 <bblfish> Arnaud: we need positive feedback from people so that even if they like the use cases they should see it
14:42:05 <bblfish> q-
14:42:12 <bblfish> perhaps a vote?
14:43:29 <bblfish> 0ne should have a call for consensus on the use cases that are already up
14:43:35 <sandro> sandro: let's do a call for consensus on the proposal that we support all these use cases as valuable/appropriate
14:44:25 <bblfish> Topic: Comparing two things ?
14:44:50 <bblfish> Topic: compare with Graph Store protocol 
14:45:09 <bblfish> where is the graph store protocol again?
14:45:30 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-http-rdf-update/
14:45:30 <bblfish> Any opinions?
14:47:18 <bblfish> - what is the next plan for the draft store protocol? - PR should be in september if there are enough implementations
14:48:05 <bblfish> zakim, who is speaking?
14:48:16 <Zakim> bblfish, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: sandro (82%), Arnaud (4%)
14:48:55 <bblfish> sandro: I had a lot of problems with that SPARQL at the time. The compromise that the idea was that the POST in that spec is SPARQL specific
14:49:14 <bblfish> sandro: sticky bit: if you POST RDF it has append semantics
14:50:18 <bblfish> sandro: so this seems to be a protocol to work only on SPARQL resources
14:50:31 <bblfish> zakim, who is speaking?
14:50:42 <sandro> SteveS, 
14:50:43 <Zakim> bblfish, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
14:50:58 <bblfish> SteveS: in the current spec POST means create a new resource
14:51:19 <bblfish> SteveS: posting to a resource is not define
14:51:42 <ArthurK> ArthurK has joined #ldp
14:52:51 <bblfish> sandro: would POSTing RDF to a resource do something else than merging RDF?
14:53:09 <sandro> dret: post in rest is app specific
14:53:24 <ericP> i think the issue is whether the current spec licenses users to expect that every resource is appendable with POST
14:53:54 <sandro> sandro: anyone have a story of having done that with RDF?
14:54:37 <bblfish> arnaud: this is something that is good to document ( one could do it later and keep it in bakc of mind or document it)
14:56:08 <bblfish> SteveS, and someone to fill this information out
14:56:22 <bblfish> ( not sure what the action semantics are on irc here )
14:56:34 <bblfish> Steve and sandro
14:56:51 <Kalpa> Kalpa has joined #ldp
14:57:34 <JohnArwe> sandro, in this spec how does a client introspect the knowledge that it is interacting with a graph store?  in the LDP we expose and rdf:type value to know it's a container, wondering what's the equivalent in Graph Store protocol?
14:57:58 <sandro> action: SteveS to review SPARQL Graph Store Protocol and suggest how we should move forward with it
14:57:58 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - SteveS
14:58:06 <sandro> action: Steve to review SPARQL Graph Store Protocol and suggest how we should move forward with it
14:58:06 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Steve
14:58:06 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. sspeiche, sbattle2)
14:58:13 <Kalpa> zakim who is on phone
14:58:16 <sandro> action: sspeiche to review SPARQL Graph Store Protocol and suggest how we should move forward with it
14:58:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Review SPARQL Graph Store Protocol and suggest how we should move forward with it [on Steve Speicher - due 2012-07-30].
14:58:49 <bblfish> Topic: ?
14:58:56 <Kalpa> zakim who is on the call
14:59:04 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum
14:59:44 <Kalpa> zakim who is on the call?
15:00:01 <bblfish> ACTION: bblfish to add use case for non rdf content addition
15:00:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Add use case for non rdf content addition [on Henry Story - due 2012-07-30].
15:00:53 <SteveS> ACTION: sspeiche Review SDshare 
15:00:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Review SDshare  [on Steve Speicher - due 2012-07-30].
15:01:10 <dret> action: dret add a use case for authentication.authorization to the use case wiki page
15:01:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-7 - Add a use case for authentication.authorization to the use case wiki page [on Erik Wilde - due 2012-07-30].
15:03:09 <bblfish> thanks
15:03:10 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
15:03:11 <Zakim> -rgarcia
15:03:14 <Zakim> -SteveS
15:03:15 <Zakim> -dret
15:03:15 <Zakim> -sandro
15:03:16 <Zakim> -Ruben
15:03:16 <Zakim> -stevebattle
15:03:17 <Zakim> -svillata
15:03:17 <Zakim> -cygri
15:03:20 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:03:21 <Ruben> Ruben has left #ldp
15:03:21 <Zakim> -boris
15:03:23 <Zakim> -krp
15:03:26 <Zakim> -kalpa
15:03:31 <Zakim> -MacTed
15:03:33 <Zakim> -bblfish
15:03:35 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
15:03:37 <Zakim> Attendees were sandro, Arnaud, +1.510.698.aabb, cygri, mkerrin, SteveS, svillata, MacTed, bblfish, JohnArwe, krp, dret, Ruben, rgarcia, stevebattle, Lee_Feigenbaum, boris, kalpa
15:03:45 <stevebattle> stevebattle has left #ldp
15:06:46 <dret> will we get a preliminary version of the minutes right away (i.e., does somebody know the voodoo commands to generate them)?
15:07:22 <sandro> give me 30 minutes.
15:07:31 <sandro> sorting out some wiki permissions bug
15:08:38 <dret> sounds great, sandro, thanks a lot!
15:09:36 <mkerrin> mkerrin has joined #ldp
15:12:33 <JohnArwe> JohnArwe has joined #ldp
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