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Chatlog 2012-06-25
From Linked Data Platform
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13:51:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ldp 13:51:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/25-ldp-irc 13:51:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 181 13:51:25 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ldp 13:51:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 13:51:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 13:51:28 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference 13:51:28 <trackbot> Date: 25 June 2012 13:52:04 <Yves> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.06.25 13:52:04 <Yves> Scribe: Yves 13:52:04 <Yves> Chair: Arnaud 13:53:25 <ruben1> ruben1 has joined #ldp 13:53:45 <ruben1> ruben1 has left #ldp 13:54:05 <ruben1> ruben1 has joined #ldp 13:57:01 <krp> krp has joined #ldp 13:57:25 <SteveS> SteveS has joined #ldp 13:59:14 <ruben1> zakim, who is here? 13:59:14 <Zakim> sorry, ruben1, I don't know what conference this is 13:59:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see SteveS, krp, ruben1, Zakim, RRSAgent, svillata, rgarcia, ghard, Arnaud, JohnArwe, LeeF, oberger, MacTed, AndyS, betehess, achille-zappa, sandro, Yves, trackbot, ericP 13:59:29 <ruben1> ruben1 has left #ldp 13:59:45 <Ruben> Ruben has joined #ldp 13:59:52 <cgueret_work> cgueret_work has joined #ldp 14:00:21 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_LDP()10:00AM 14:00:29 <Zakim> +Steve_Speicher 14:00:31 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone? 14:00:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, ??P1, +329331aaaa, Arnaud, ??P4, ??P5, ??P6, Steve_Speicher 14:00:37 <Zakim> -??P5 14:00:44 <Zakim> + +1.510.206.aabb 14:00:44 <Ruben> zakim, this is aaaa 14:00:45 <Zakim> sorry, Ruben, I do not see a conference named 'aaaa' in progress or scheduled at this time 14:00:47 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software 14:00:59 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 14:01:01 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me 14:01:02 <SteveS> zakim, this is Steve_Speicher 14:01:04 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it 14:01:04 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here? 14:01:06 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted 14:01:09 <Ruben> Zakim, I am aaaa 14:01:10 <Zakim> sorry, SteveS, I do not see a conference named 'Steve_Speicher' in progress or scheduled at this time 14:01:12 <JacekKopecky> JacekKopecky has joined #ldp 14:01:17 <Zakim> +??P12 14:01:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, ??P1, +329331aaaa, Arnaud, ??P4, ??P6, Steve_Speicher, +1.510.206.aabb, MacTed (muted), ??P12 14:01:19 <Ruben> zakim, I am aaaa 14:01:23 <AndyS> zakim, ??P12 is me 14:01:23 <Zakim> +??P11 14:01:25 <Zakim> + +1.845.433.aacc 14:01:28 <MacTed> Zakim, aaaa is Ruben 14:01:31 <JohnArwe> zakim, this JohnArwe 14:01:31 <Zakim> +Ruben; got it 14:01:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see JacekKopecky, cgueret_work, Ruben, SteveS, krp, Zakim, RRSAgent, svillata, rgarcia, ghard, Arnaud, JohnArwe, LeeF, oberger, MacTed, AndyS, betehess, achille-zappa, 14:01:40 <Zakim> ... sandro, Yves, trackbot, ericP 14:01:42 <Zakim> sorry, Ruben, I do not see a party named 'aaaa' 14:01:49 <SteveS> Zakim, Steve_Speicher is SteveS 14:01:50 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it 14:01:54 <Zakim> sorry, MacTed, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 14:01:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this JohnArwe', JohnArwe 14:02:06 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it 14:02:22 <Ruben> zakim, mute me 14:02:42 <Zakim> +Yves 14:02:58 <Zakim> Ruben should now be muted 14:03:10 <mkerrin> mkerrin has joined #ldp 14:03:16 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy? 14:03:36 <cygri> cygri has joined #ldp 14:03:40 <Zakim> +??P19 14:03:48 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P0 (28%), ??P1 (48%), Arnaud (22%), ??P19 (82%) 14:03:50 <cygri> zakim, code? 14:03:59 <Zakim> +LeeF 14:03:59 <MacTed> Zakim, mute ??p0 14:04:01 <MacTed> Zakim, mute ??p1 14:04:03 <Zakim> +EricP 14:04:10 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri 14:04:10 <MacTed> Zakim, mute ??p19 14:04:13 <Zakim> ??P0 should now be muted 14:04:15 <Zakim> ??P1 should now be muted 14:04:19 <Zakim> ??P19 should now be muted 14:04:27 <Zakim> +mhausenblas 14:04:40 <cygri> zakim, i'm with mhausenblas 14:04:42 <Zakim> +cygri; got it 14:04:48 <Zakim> -??P6 14:04:49 <Zakim> +??P28 14:04:56 <cygri> zakim, mkerrin is with mhausenblas 14:04:56 <Zakim> +mkerrin; got it 14:05:12 <Yves> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot 14:05:15 <Yves> for help 14:05:27 <Zakim> +??P6 14:05:37 <Arnaud> zakim, aabb is dret 14:05:37 <Zakim> +dret; got it 14:05:43 <Zakim> -??P28 14:05:51 <MacTed> Zakim, mute ??p6 14:05:54 <Zakim> ??P6 should now be muted 14:06:19 <Zakim> +??P28 14:06:24 <Zakim> -??P4 14:06:39 <Zakim> +??P4 14:06:51 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me 14:06:51 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted 14:06:52 <ghard> zakim, ??P4 is ghard 14:06:52 <Zakim> +ghard; got it 14:07:10 <MacTed> Zakim, mute ghard 14:07:10 <Zakim> ghard should now be muted 14:07:13 <JohnArwe> zakim, aacc is JohnArwe 14:07:13 <Zakim> +JohnArwe; got it 14:07:17 <MacTed> Zakim, umute ghard 14:07:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'umute ghard', MacTed 14:07:20 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute ghard 14:07:20 <Zakim> ghard should no longer be muted 14:07:40 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy? 14:07:44 <JacekKopecky> zakim, ??P0 may be me 14:07:44 <Zakim> +JacekKopecky?; got it 14:07:50 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (9%), MacTed (25%), Yves (10%), ??P28 (24%) 14:07:56 <MacTed> Zakim, mute ??p28 14:07:56 <Zakim> ??P28 should now be muted 14:08:11 <JacekKopecky> zakim, mute me 14:08:11 <Zakim> JacekKopecky? should now be muted 14:08:30 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here? 14:08:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see JacekKopecky? (muted), ??P1 (muted), Ruben (muted), Arnaud, SteveS, dret, MacTed, AndyS, ??P11, JohnArwe, Yves, ??P19 (muted), LeeF, EricP, mhausenblas, ??P6 14:08:34 <Zakim> ... (muted), ??P28 (muted), ghard 14:08:34 <Zakim> mhausenblas has cygri, mkerrin 14:08:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see cygri, mkerrin, JacekKopecky, cgueret_work, Ruben, SteveS, krp, Zakim, RRSAgent, svillata, rgarcia, ghard, Arnaud, JohnArwe, LeeF, oberger, MacTed, AndyS, betehess, 14:08:37 <Zakim> ... achille-zappa, sandro, Yves, trackbot, ericP 14:09:20 <Zakim> -??P11 14:09:29 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute ??p1 14:09:29 <Zakim> ??P1 should no longer be muted 14:09:31 <Zakim> -??P19 14:09:31 <Yves> Arnaud: if you are not in the list of 'present' given by Zakim, please tell us 14:09:33 <Zakim> +??P11 14:09:38 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute ??p11 14:09:38 <Zakim> ??P11 was not muted, MacTed 14:09:41 <cgueret_work> zakim, ??p11 is me 14:09:41 <Zakim> +cgueret_work; got it 14:10:00 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here? 14:10:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see JacekKopecky (muted), ??P1, Ruben (muted), Arnaud, SteveS, dret, MacTed, AndyS, JohnArwe, Yves, LeeF, EricP, mhausenblas, ??P6 (muted), ??P28 (muted), ghard, 14:10:04 <Zakim> ... cgueret_work 14:10:04 <Zakim> mhausenblas has cygri, mkerrin 14:10:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see cygri, mkerrin, JacekKopecky, cgueret_work, Ruben, SteveS, krp, Zakim, RRSAgent, svillata, rgarcia, ghard, Arnaud, JohnArwe, LeeF, oberger, MacTed, AndyS, betehess, 14:10:05 <Zakim> ... achille-zappa, sandro, Yves, trackbot, ericP 14:10:07 <Zakim> +??P19 14:10:28 <rgarcia> zakim, ??P19 is me 14:10:28 <Zakim> +rgarcia; got it 14:10:33 <krp> zakim, ??p6 is me 14:10:33 <Zakim> +krp; got it 14:10:35 <Yves> Topic: last week minutes 14:10:49 <Yves> Arnaud: did people look at the minutes? objection to approve them? 14:11:04 <AndyS> +1 to the minutes 14:11:25 <Yves> Arnaud: we take minutes and the week later , after review, we approve the minutes 14:11:33 <svillata> Zakim, <svillata> has <P6> 14:11:34 <Zakim> sorry, svillata, I do not recognize a party named '<svillata>' 14:11:39 <Yves> RESOLUTION: last week minutes approved 14:11:47 <Zakim> -JacekKopecky 14:11:49 <kalpa> kalpa has joined #ldp 14:11:51 <Zakim> + +1.615.891.aadd 14:11:52 <svillata> Zakim, svillata has ??P6 14:11:52 <Zakim> sorry, svillata, I do not recognize a party named 'svillata' 14:11:55 <cgueret_work> I was here but it's not recorded in the minutes :/ 14:11:55 <JohnArwe> note that attendee list from last time is suspect; SteveS shown in log, but not captured up top, as 1 example. 14:12:10 <Yves> Arnaud: there is one action pending review on Sandro 14:12:11 <Zakim> - +1.615.891.aadd 14:12:14 <Yves> ACTION-2? 14:12:14 <trackbot> ACTION-2 -- Sandro Hawke to set up commonscribe -- due 2012-06-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:12:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/2 14:12:32 <Yves> Eric: no idea if it was completed 14:12:34 <cygri> q+ 14:12:42 <Zakim> +??P0 14:12:52 <JacekKopecky> zakim, ??P0 is me 14:12:52 <Zakim> +JacekKopecky; got it 14:12:59 <cygri> it's here: https://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/ 14:13:13 <Yves> Erik: Sandro sent an email saying it was setup 14:13:26 <Yves> ACTION-1? 14:13:26 <trackbot> ACTION-1 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to ask sandro about how difficult it is to set up CommonScribe -- due 2012-06-25 -- OPEN 14:13:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/1 14:13:29 <JacekKopecky> zakim, ??P0 is not me 14:13:29 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P0 is not me', JacekKopecky 14:13:31 <Zakim> + +1.937.775.aaee 14:13:41 <cygri> q- 14:13:43 <Yves> close ACTION-1 14:13:43 <trackbot> ACTION-1 Ask sandro about how difficult it is to set up CommonScribe closed 14:13:43 <Zakim> +??P36 14:13:49 <Yves> ACTION-3? 14:13:49 <trackbot> ACTION-3 -- Arnaud Le Hors to create a wiki page to capture use cases and requirements -- due 2012-06-28 -- OPEN 14:13:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/3 14:13:50 <JacekKopecky> zakim, ??P36 is me 14:13:50 <Zakim> +JacekKopecky; got it 14:13:56 <Yves> close ACTION-3 14:13:56 <trackbot> ACTION-3 Create a wiki page to capture use cases and requirements closed 14:14:18 <svillata> Zachim, ??P6 is /me 14:14:25 <Yves> Topic: next meeting 14:14:28 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Use_Cases_And_Requirements 14:14:38 <achille-zappa> achille-zappa has joined #ldp 14:14:45 <svillata> Zakim, ??P6 is me 14:14:45 <Zakim> I already had ??P6 as krp, svillata 14:15:09 <svillata> Zakim, ??P1 is me 14:15:09 <Zakim> +svillata; got it 14:15:13 <Yves> Arnaud: next meeting is next monday, however we might have a summer schedule, as people take vacation 14:15:39 <LeeF> I think we should keep the normal schedule. 14:15:44 <rgarcia> +1 for summer schedule 14:15:44 <cgueret_work> +1 to keep 14:15:52 <svillata> +1 to keep 14:15:52 <ericP> +1 to slacking 14:15:56 <oberger> +1 summer schedule 14:16:07 <Ruben> +1 summer schedule 14:16:10 <cygri> +1 summer schedule 14:16:10 <ghard> +1 summer schedule 14:16:18 <oberger> (given that most are in northern hemisphere ? ;) 14:17:47 <Yves> Arnaud: July 9 then every other week until end of august ? 14:17:52 <cygri> +1 to that 14:18:04 <krp> +1 14:18:07 <svillata> +1 14:18:13 <rgarcia> +1 14:18:19 <SteveS> +1 to Arnaud's proposed schedule 14:18:19 <ghard> +1 every other week 14:18:19 <Ruben> +1 14:18:28 <cgueret_work> +1 14:18:30 <Yves> eric: missing one out of 3 is a sure way to be confused 14:19:08 <Yves> Arnaud: no objections? 14:19:09 <cgueret_work> can we do anything for the time? 14:19:14 <Yves> noone screaming, so 14:19:16 <cgueret_work> earlier or later? 14:19:23 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me 14:19:23 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted 14:19:23 <Yves> RESOLUTION: July 9 then every other week until end of august 14:19:33 <cgueret_work> :) 14:19:34 <Yves> Topic: telcon time 14:19:43 <Yves> Arnaud: telcon time. earlier or later? 14:19:56 <Yves> it's 7am in California, so doing earlier would be difficult 14:20:03 <oberger> depends if summer siesta time ? ;) 14:20:37 <Yves> Arnaud: we tried a doodle with just 5 people, and even finding one slot was quite hard 14:20:52 <cgueret_work> ok 14:21:08 <Zakim> +??P40 14:21:15 <JacekKopecky> zakim, ??P40 is me 14:21:15 <Zakim> +JacekKopecky; got it 14:21:52 <Yves> Yves: let's continue with this time and see if it works for most people or if too inconvenient 14:22:10 <Yves> Arnaud: it is customary with a WG to start with a f2f 14:23:03 <Yves> there is a notification period for F2F (because of travel planning) 14:23:33 <antonis> antonis has joined #ldp 14:23:58 <Yves> the Technical Plenary once a year, for 2012 it's here: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/ 14:24:12 <Yves> would people be able to attend that meeting? 14:24:42 <SteveS> +1 I "should" be able to get to tpac but would recommend a 3Q F2F meeting 1st 14:24:43 <JohnArwe> no known conflicts w TPAC for me 14:24:47 <svillata> should be able to go to TPAC 14:25:03 <ghard> Seems to work for me 14:25:07 <cgueret_work> +1 14:25:16 <Ruben> +1 14:25:22 <oberger> +1 probably 14:25:22 <antonis> +1 14:25:23 <rgarcia> no conflicts for me "right now" 14:25:24 <svillata> +1 14:25:30 <Yves> Erik: it's more up to the group to decide. at worst we can have a small group there 14:26:04 <Yves> SteveS: we could also do transatlantic f2f, with two locations 14:26:27 <ghard> Nice place. Was there for VLDB 14:26:34 <SteveS> was not me, was AndyS I believe 14:26:39 <AndyS> s/SteveS/AndyS/ 14:27:28 <Yves> Arnaud: if we get a transatlantic presence, it should be east soact US to reduce the time diff 14:28:07 <Yves> SteveS: having the first f2f in 5 monthes is a bit late 14:28:30 <SteveS_> SteveS_ has joined #ldp 14:28:32 <Yves> Arnaud: the WG started right before summer, with lower attendance, so meeting in september while TPAC is in november... 14:29:05 <ericP> -1 to sept f2f 14:30:54 <AndyS> Notes on SPARQL Graph Store Protocol : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Jun/0030.html 14:34:26 <oberger> oberger has joined #ldp 14:34:31 <Yves> AndyS: there are 3 protocols, issuing query, requests 14:35:18 <Yves> sparql update allows you to manipulate the graph store 14:35:43 <Yves> this is used for fined-grain graph control 14:35:54 <Yves> there is also bulk modification, like adding a graph store 14:37:01 <Yves> you can delete a graph 14:37:13 <Yves> the specification is just translating what HTTP says 14:37:25 <Zakim> +??P40 14:37:31 <JacekKopecky> zakim, ??P40 is me 14:37:31 <Zakim> +JacekKopecky; got it 14:37:36 <Yves> it defines POST of RDF data to add things to a graph 14:38:52 <Yves> you don't get hierarchy of containers, like stores of graph stores 14:39:30 <Yves> PATCH is proposed to mean a SPARQL update 14:40:55 <Yves> as in the first example, a URI can identify a graph in a graph store 14:41:30 <Yves> a more complex example is doing indirect graph identification, using ?graph=<uri of the names graph> 14:41:50 <ericP> <graphstore>?graph=http://foo.example/graph1 14:42:02 <Yves> POST to a graph means append, POST to a graph-store means create a graph 14:42:20 <cygri> q+ 14:42:33 <Zakim> -JacekKopecky 14:42:47 <Yves> Arnaud: do you have comments on how it compares to the IBM submission? 14:42:57 <cygri> q+ to ask about uptake 14:43:20 <Yves> AndyS: the IBM submission has more complex things like what you put in containers 14:43:42 <Yves> in the SPARQL graph protocol, you only manipulate graphs in the graph-store 14:44:07 <Yves> there is only one case 14:44:12 <AndyS> ack cygri 14:44:12 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to ask about uptake 14:44:26 <Zakim> -EricP 14:44:47 <Yves> cygri: how about implementations? 14:45:01 <cgueret_work> Redstore implements it too: http://www.aelius.com/njh/redstore/ 14:45:23 <Yves> AndyS: ??? is implementing it. 14:45:32 <LeeF> s/???/Garlik 14:46:54 <cgueret_work> I am 14:46:58 <Yves> LeeF: difficult to figure out all implementations 14:47:00 <cgueret_work> but my mic does not work :/ 14:47:03 <cgueret_work> works fine 14:47:15 <cgueret_work> sorry... :P 14:47:29 <Zakim> +EricP 14:48:01 <LeeF> We don't implement it all in Anzo but will be completing an implementation of it in the coming months 14:48:21 <cgueret_work> (I use RedStore for a graph-centric data management stack and the graph protocol works just fine in it) 14:49:00 <Yves> Topic: Annotea Protocol 14:49:01 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/Annotea/User/Protocol Annotea Protocol 14:51:15 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2012/Talks/0717-egp-API4KB/#%284%29 Linked Data API 14:51:24 <AndyS> Linked data API: http://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/ 14:52:12 <AndyS> implementation: http://elda.googlecode.com/hg/deliver-elda/src/main/docs/index.html 14:53:00 <Yves> the main difference with LDBP is the link list (next/prev ones) 14:53:18 <Yves> provides random access in a big container 14:53:18 <SteveS> +q Was Annotea adopted? what happened to it after it was published? 14:53:21 <Zakim> +??P53 14:53:28 <JacekKopecky> zakim, ??P53 is me 14:53:28 <Zakim> +JacekKopecky; got it 14:53:43 <AndyS> app using LDA: http://environment.data.gov.uk/lab/bwq-web.html 14:53:47 <AndyS> (and I'm watching the server stats :-) 14:53:57 <Yves> it's using URI templates 14:54:45 <Yves> short-string to predicate mapping 14:55:01 <AndyS> q+ to explain the interaction model 14:55:01 <ghard> FYI: Virtuoso has some support for HTTP CRUD operations for graphs as well. Uses special endpoint /sparql-graph-crud 14:56:01 <Yves> EricP: annotea was mostly a demonstrator, paired with Amaya to show annotations 14:57:17 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy? 14:57:28 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (70%) 14:57:32 <MacTed> Zakim, mute LeeF 14:57:32 <Zakim> LeeF should now be muted 14:57:42 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me 14:57:45 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted 14:57:49 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me 14:57:49 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted 14:58:29 <Yves> EricP: it's just a random document, not a Team Note 14:58:55 <Zakim> -EricP 15:01:20 <Yves> Arnaud: scribe duties is a shared responsibility, so we will start a scribe list 15:01:35 <Yves> default order will be alphabetical list 15:01:39 <cgueret_work> +1 for alpha list :) 15:01:55 <Yves> next meeting in two weeks. 15:02:02 <Yves> ADJOURNED 15:02:06 <Zakim> -SteveS 15:02:07 <Zakim> -mhausenblas 15:02:07 <Zakim> -dret 15:02:09 <Zakim> -Ruben 15:02:09 <Zakim> -Yves 15:02:10 <Zakim> -Arnaud 15:02:12 <Ruben> Ruben has left #ldp 15:02:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/25-ldp-minutes.html Yves 15:02:15 <Zakim> -MacTed 15:02:17 <Zakim> -LeeF 15:02:19 <Zakim> -AndyS 15:02:21 <Zakim> -svillata 15:02:23 <Zakim> -rgarcia 15:02:25 <Zakim> -krp 15:02:28 <Zakim> -??P28 15:02:29 <Zakim> -ghard 15:02:33 <Zakim> - +1.937.775.aaee 15:02:37 <Zakim> -JohnArwe 15:02:48 <svillata> svillata has left #ldp 15:02:51 <mkerrin> mkerrin has left #ldp 15:03:10 <cygri> yves, use commonscribe now? https://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/ 15:03:11 <Zakim> -cgueret_work 15:03:25 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended 15:03:26 <Zakim> Attendees were +329331aaaa, Arnaud, +1.510.206.aabb, MacTed, +1.845.433.aacc, Ruben, AndyS, SteveS, Yves, LeeF, EricP, mhausenblas, cygri, mkerrin, dret, ghard, JohnArwe, 15:03:29 <Zakim> ... JacekKopecky, cgueret_work, rgarcia, krp, +1.615.891.aadd, +1.937.775.aaee, svillata 15:03:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/25-ldp-minutes.html Yves 15:04:08 <Arnaud> thanks Yves for scribing today # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000374