Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 28 January 2013

Seen
Andy Seaborne, Antonis Loizou, Arnaud Le Hors, Ashok Malhotra, Bart van Leeuwen, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Erik Wilde, Henry Story, John Arwe, Kevin Page, Nandana Mihindukulasooriya, Roger Menday, Serena Villata, Sergio Fernández, Steve Battle, Steve Speicher, Ted Thibodeau, Yves Lafon
Chair
Arnaud Le Hors
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. minutes of January 21 approved. link
Topics
14:57:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-ldp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-ldp-irc

14:57:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

14:57:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP

14:57:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

14:57:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
14:57:53 <trackbot> Date: 28 January 2013
14:58:22 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

14:58:29 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

14:58:58 <Zakim> +??P7

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7

14:59:02 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??P7 is me

Bart van Leeuwen: Zakim, ??P7 is me

14:59:02 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +BartvanLeeuwen; got it

14:59:40 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8

15:00:34 <Ashok> zakim, code?

Ashok Malhotra: zakim, code?

15:00:34 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Ashok

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Ashok

15:00:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:00:44 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

15:00:46 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please dial ericP-office

15:00:46 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ericP; the call is being made

15:00:47 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

15:00:51 <antonis> zakim, ??p8 is me

Antonis Loizou: zakim, ??p8 is me

15:00:51 <Zakim> +antonis; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +antonis; got it

15:00:59 <dret> zakim, +[IPcaller] is me

Erik Wilde: zakim, +[IPcaller] is me

15:00:59 <Zakim> sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'

15:01:00 <Zakim> +??P0

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0

15:01:09 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra

15:01:12 <dret> zakim, +[IPcaller.a] is me

Erik Wilde: zakim, +[IPcaller.a] is me

15:01:12 <Zakim> sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.a]'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.a]'

15:01:17 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:01:19 <sergio> Zakim: [IPcaller.a] is me
15:01:30 <dret> zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Erik Wilde: zakim, [IPcaller] is me

15:01:30 <Zakim> +dret; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dret; got it

15:01:31 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:01:31 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

15:01:33 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:01:33 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:01:37 <sergio> Zakim: IPcaller.a is me
15:01:57 <Zakim> +JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe

15:02:15 <Zakim> +roger

Zakim IRC Bot: +roger

15:02:18 <JohnArwe> very quiet on the line

John Arwe: very quiet on the line

15:02:23 <Zakim> +Steve_Speicher

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steve_Speicher

15:02:26 <Zakim> + +44.754.550.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.754.550.aaaa

15:02:41 <SteveBattle_> zakim, aaaa is me

Steve Battle: zakim, aaaa is me

15:02:41 <Zakim> +SteveBattle_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveBattle_; got it

15:02:46 <SteveS> zakim, Steve_Speicher is me

Steve Speicher: zakim, Steve_Speicher is me

15:02:46 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it

15:02:54 <dret> very quiet, but it seems to work ok.

Erik Wilde: very quiet, but it seems to work ok.

15:02:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:03:05 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPcaller is me

15:03:05 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:03:19 <Zakim> +bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish

15:03:23 <Zakim> -??P0

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P0

15:03:32 <bblfish> hi

Henry Story: hi

15:03:39 <Arnaud> zakim, who's here?

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's here?

15:03:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, [IPcaller.a], EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, [IPcaller.a], EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish

15:03:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed, bhyland,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed, bhyland,

15:03:42 <Zakim> ... oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: ... oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves, sandro

15:03:57 <sergio> Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me

Sergio Fernández: Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me

15:03:57 <Zakim> +sergio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +sergio; got it

15:03:59 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

15:04:14 <dret> zakim, who's here?

Erik Wilde: zakim, who's here?

15:04:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, sergio, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish, ??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, sergio, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish, ??P3

15:04:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed,

15:04:17 <Zakim> ... bhyland, oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves

Zakim IRC Bot: ... bhyland, oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves

15:04:31 <Arnaud> zakim, pick a victim

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, pick a victim

15:04:31 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Arnaud

15:04:40 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

15:04:42 <Arnaud> zakim, pick a victim

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, pick a victim

15:04:42 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P3

15:04:44 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

15:04:55 <bblfish> who laughed?

Henry Story: who laughed?

15:04:59 <bblfish> pick him!!

Henry Story: pick him!!

15:05:11 <Zakim> -??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P3

15:05:32 <Zakim> +??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26

15:05:35 <dret> zakim, who's here?

Erik Wilde: zakim, who's here?

15:05:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, sergio, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish, ??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, sergio, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish, ??P26

15:05:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed,

15:05:39 <Zakim> ... bhyland, oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves

Zakim IRC Bot: ... bhyland, oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves

15:05:50 <Arnaud> zakim, pick a victim

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, pick a victim

15:05:51 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P26

15:06:13 <JohnArwe> chair: arnaud
15:06:14 <TallTed> chair: Arnaud
15:07:16 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5

15:07:45 <SteveS> looked and didn't see any problem

Steve Speicher: looked and didn't see any problem

<dret> Topic: Minutes of January 21

1. Minutes of January 21

15:07:58 <dret> proposed to accept last week's meeting: no objection

Erik Wilde: proposed to accept last week's meeting: no objection

<dret> RESOLVED: minutes of January 21 approved.

RESOLVED: minutes of January 21 approved.

15:08:01 <krp> zakim, ??P5 is me

Kevin Page: zakim, ??P5 is me

15:08:02 <Zakim> +krp; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +krp; got it

<dret> Topic: Actions and Issues

2. Actions and Issues

<dret> subtopic: Actions

2.1. Actions

15:08:21 <bblfish> You can now close my action from last week

Henry Story: You can now close my action from last week

15:08:26 <dret> please everybody indicate f2f attendance until next mondat

Erik Wilde: please everybody indicate f2f attendance until next mondat

15:08:40 <nmihindu> zakim, ??P26 is me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: zakim, ??P26 is me

15:08:40 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it

15:09:03 <dret> close ACTION-28

Erik Wilde: close ACTION-28

15:09:03 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-28 Access Control: fill in use cases and requirements and Identity section.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-28 Access Control: fill in use cases and requirements and Identity section.

15:09:05 <bblfish> action-28?

Henry Story: ACTION-28?

15:09:05 <trackbot> ACTION-28 -- Henry Story to access Control: fill in use cases and requirements and Identity section -- due 2012-11-21 -- CLOSED

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-28 -- Henry Story to access Control: fill in use cases and requirements and Identity section -- due 2012-11-21 -- CLOSED

15:09:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/28

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/28

15:09:34 <sergio> action-36?

Sergio Fernández: ACTION-36?

15:09:34 <trackbot> ACTION-36 -- John Arwe to [EDITOR] Make changes for ISSUE-42 (moving common props to deployment guide) -- due 2013-01-14 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-36 -- John Arwe to [EDITOR] Make changes for ISSUE-42 (moving common props to deployment guide) -- due 2013-01-14 -- OPEN

15:09:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/36

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/36

15:09:49 <dret> discussing ACTION-36, which is 97% complete

Erik Wilde: discussing ACTION-36, which is 97% complete

15:10:06 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9

15:10:19 <Zakim> +Yves

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yves

15:11:12 <dret> ACTION-36, content has been moved to deployment guide, but some clean-up is required

Erik Wilde: ACTION-36, content has been moved to deployment guide, but some clean-up is required

<dret> subtopic: Raised issues

2.2. Raised issues

15:12:23 <dret> ISSUE-46 has been raised, rogerm explains the motivation

Erik Wilde: ISSUE-46 has been raised, rogerm explains the motivation

15:12:49 <TallTed> issue-46?

Ted Thibodeau: ISSUE-46?

15:12:49 <trackbot> ISSUE-46 -- services and LDP -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-46 -- services and LDP -- raised

15:12:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/46

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/46

15:13:49 <dret> rogerm explains how ISSUE-46 could be closed, which is not quite clear from the issue itself

Erik Wilde: rogerm explains how ISSUE-46 could be closed, which is not quite clear from the issue itself

15:14:15 <dret> Arnaud claims that it's not quite clear what the issue is asking us to do?

Erik Wilde: Arnaud claims that it's not quite clear what the issue is asking us to do?

15:15:08 <bblfish> q?

Henry Story: q?

15:15:09 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

15:15:18 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

15:15:28 <SteveBattle_> q+

Steve Battle: q+

15:15:41 <JohnArwe> q+

John Arwe: q+

15:16:02 <dret> "category 1" as described by Arnaud refers to interacting with collections and entries, not about a generic RDF database model of "just managing triples"

Erik Wilde: "category 1" as described by Arnaud refers to interacting with collections and entries, not about a generic RDF database model of "just managing triples"

15:16:11 <Arnaud> ack steveb

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steveb

15:16:38 <dret> SteveBattle says that both scenarios are covered

Erik Wilde: SteveBattle says that both scenarios are covered

15:16:40 <Arnaud> ack john

Arnaud Le Hors: ack john

15:17:32 <bblfish> Issue-37?

Henry Story: ISSUE-37?

15:17:32 <trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open

15:17:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37

15:17:45 <dret> JohnArwe says we have different audiences, one starting from the bottom, the other starting top-down, and ISSUE-46 is very much related to ISSUE-37

Erik Wilde: JohnArwe says we have different audiences, one starting from the bottom, the other starting top-down, and ISSUE-46 is very much related to ISSUE-37

15:18:22 <dret> we as a WG are not delivering solutions, we are delivering building blocks for solutions

Erik Wilde: we as a WG are not delivering solutions, we are delivering building blocks for solutions

15:18:26 <Zakim> +??P30

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30

15:18:48 <svillata> zakim, P30 is me

Serena Villata: zakim, P30 is me

15:18:48 <Zakim> sorry, svillata, I do not recognize a party named 'P30'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, svillata, I do not recognize a party named 'P30'

15:18:58 <svillata> zakim, ??P30 is me

Serena Villata: zakim, ??P30 is me

15:18:58 <Zakim> +svillata; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +svillata; got it

15:20:00 <bblfish> bblfish: said that there is a relation to this problem and the use cases document, it is an interesting issue, but not sure if it should be opened. There is definitetly something that should be done as a group to try to solve this. My guess is that one can do this very declaratively, and that there is some new things to do.

Henry Story: said that there is a relation to this problem and the use cases document, it is an interesting issue, but not sure if it should be opened. There is definitetly something that should be done as a group to try to solve this. My guess is that one can do this very declaratively, and that there is some new things to do. [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ]

15:21:10 <SteveS> I think it is covered by our use case document already

Steve Speicher: I think it is covered by our use case document already

15:22:38 <dret> it seems to very unclear what category 1 and 2 even mean, different people have different opinions on what they mean

Erik Wilde: it seems to very unclear what category 1 and 2 even mean, different people have different opinions on what they mean

15:23:14 <bblfish> makes sense

Henry Story: makes sense

15:24:09 <SteveBattle_> It would always be possible to make this more explicit in the next iteration of UC&R  - we did invite comments four this iteration but we had none :)

Steve Battle: It would always be possible to make this more explicit in the next iteration of UC&R - we did invite comments four this iteration but we had none :)

15:24:16 <dret> rogerm is asked by Arnaud to refer to UCR and see whether ISSUE-46 can be reframed in terms of missing UCR issues; ISSUE-46 remains raised for now

Erik Wilde: rogerm is asked by Arnaud to refer to UCR and see whether ISSUE-46 can be reframed in terms of missing UCR issues; ISSUE-46 remains raised for now

15:25:06 <dret> rogerm claims that category 2 will be addressed by at least some of the WG members

Erik Wilde: rogerm claims that category 2 will be addressed by at least some of the WG members

<dret>topic: UC&R

3. UC&R

15:25:36 <dret> Arnaud asks what's the current status of UCR?

Erik Wilde: Arnaud asks what's the current status of UCR?

<dret>... request wasn't actually known from the webmaster

Erik Wilde: ... request wasn't actually known from the webmaster

<dret>Yves working on getting it published, hopefully by Thursday

Erik Wilde: Yves working on getting it published, hopefully by Thursday

15:26:47 <dret> we need to find out what went wrong with the publication process so that we can avoid it doing it again

Erik Wilde: we need to find out what went wrong with the publication process so that we can avoid it doing it again

15:27:35 <dret> email address in the WD needs to be changed to be the public email address (not the -wg only)

Erik Wilde: email address in the WD needs to be changed to be the public email address (not the -wg only)

<dret>topic: LDP spec

4. LDP spec

15:28:58 <dret> Arnaud: our charter asks us to publish a second WD this month (january). should we do this or wait for more substantial changes?

Arnaud Le Hors: our charter asks us to publish a second WD this month (january). should we do this or wait for more substantial changes? [ Scribe Assist by Erik Wilde ]

15:29:28 <dret> SteveS would prefer delay of about a month, so that changes related to ISSUE-34 and ISSUE-37 can be included

Erik Wilde: SteveS would prefer delay of about a month, so that changes related to ISSUE-34 and ISSUE-37 can be included

15:30:15 <dret> JohnArwe asks about exclusion period (somebody maybe should check); Yves isn't sure that something has been announced yet

Erik Wilde: JohnArwe asks about exclusion period (somebody maybe should check); Yves isn't sure that something has been announced yet

15:30:57 <bblfish> Should we not have the relative URL changes?

Henry Story: Should we not have the relative URL changes?

15:31:01 <dret> maybe putting out a WD right before or after the f2f2 would be hit by a publishing moratorium

Erik Wilde: maybe putting out a WD right before or after the f2f2 would be hit by a publishing moratorium

15:31:09 <Yves> next publication moratorium is 7-17 June 2013

Yves Lafon: next publication moratorium is 7-17 June 2013

<dret>topic: Open Issues

5. Open Issues

15:32:01 <bblfish> Issue-37

Henry Story: ISSUE-37

15:32:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open

15:32:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37

15:32:18 <dret> ISSUE-37 was an attempt to clearly write down the assumptions that people have about the (often implicit) model of LDP

Erik Wilde: ISSUE-37 was an attempt to clearly write down the assumptions that people have about the (often implicit) model of LDP

15:32:31 <bblfish> q?

Henry Story: q?

15:32:33 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

15:33:07 <dret> so far there is little convergence, the wiki page is mostly the AtomPub model, the ISSUE-37 approach so far does not seem to be working very well

Erik Wilde: so far there is little convergence, the wiki page is mostly the AtomPub model, the ISSUE-37 approach so far does not seem to be working very well

15:33:41 <Ashok> +

Ashok Malhotra: +

15:33:47 <Ashok> q+

Ashok Malhotra: q+

15:34:00 <dret> if we cannot conclude ISSUE-37 to actually come to (some) description of the model, we probably should focus more on the individual issues, than on the very general ISSUE-37 issue

Erik Wilde: if we cannot conclude ISSUE-37 to actually come to (some) description of the model, we probably should focus more on the individual issues, than on the very general ISSUE-37 issue

15:35:14 <bblfish> Issue-34?

Henry Story: ISSUE-34?

15:35:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-34 -- Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-34 -- Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation -- open

15:35:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/34

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/34

15:35:31 <dret> Arnaud proposes to give us a week for making progress on ISSUE-37 and ISSUE-34, but we need to keep an eye on the timeline and solving specific issues around LDP

Erik Wilde: Arnaud proposes to give us a week for making progress on ISSUE-37 and ISSUE-34, but we need to keep an eye on the timeline and solving specific issues around LDP

15:36:05 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

15:36:07 <svillata> q?

Serena Villata: q?

15:36:33 <dret> bblfish is impossible to understand...

Erik Wilde: bblfish is impossible to understand...

15:36:33 <TallTed> bblfish, please move closer to wifi base...  or type

Ted Thibodeau: bblfish, please move closer to wifi base... or type

15:36:35 <Zakim> -bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish

15:36:39 <JohnArwe> "in the large hall" sound

John Arwe: "in the large hall" sound

15:36:49 <Arnaud> ack ashok

Arnaud Le Hors: ack ashok

15:37:01 <bblfish> willl take time to reconnect

Henry Story: willl take time to reconnect

15:37:02 <bblfish> just contine

Henry Story: just contine

15:37:06 <bblfish> continue

Henry Story: continue

15:37:17 <TallTed> q+

Ted Thibodeau: q+

15:37:20 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

15:37:20 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

15:37:33 <dret> Ashok says we'll keep coming back to ISSUE-37 questions, even if we start focusing on more specific issues

Erik Wilde: Ashok says we'll keep coming back to ISSUE-37 questions, even if we start focusing on more specific issues

15:37:48 <ericP> q?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q?

15:38:03 <Zakim> +bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish

15:38:06 <dret> Ashok gives example of "container with container" issue, which is a question of the overall model

Erik Wilde: Ashok gives example of "container with container" issue, which is a question of the overall model

15:38:11 <bblfish> q?

Henry Story: q?

15:38:28 <Zakim> +??P31

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31

15:38:35 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

15:38:39 <krp> zakim, ??P31 is me

Kevin Page: zakim, ??P31 is me

15:38:39 <Zakim> +krp; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +krp; got it

15:38:52 <dret> Arnaud says defining the model "piecemeal" may not be ideal, but maybe more manageable

Erik Wilde: Arnaud says defining the model "piecemeal" may not be ideal, but maybe more manageable

15:39:13 <Arnaud> ack tallted

Arnaud Le Hors: ack tallted

15:39:23 <dret> Ashok says we might just want to discuss the open questions on the ISSUE-37 wiki page

Erik Wilde: Ashok says we might just want to discuss the open questions on the ISSUE-37 wiki page

15:40:29 <dret> TallTed says we should focus on the important issues, but they may be too big to just close them. just discussing them might be not very productive.

Erik Wilde: TallTed says we should focus on the important issues, but they may be too big to just close them. just discussing them might be not very productive.

15:41:20 <dret> what makes LDP different from what is out there?

Erik Wilde: what makes LDP different from what is out there?

15:41:22 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

15:42:06 <dret> bblfish says that Atom rejected a model

Erik Wilde: bblfish says that Atom rejected a model

15:42:13 <dret> q+

Erik Wilde: q+

15:42:23 <Arnaud> ack dret

Arnaud Le Hors: ack dret

15:42:26 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:42:27 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:42:50 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

15:43:13 <Zakim> -antonis

Zakim IRC Bot: -antonis

15:43:34 <TallTed> Zakim, who's noisy?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy?

15:43:45 <Zakim> TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ashok_Malhotra (29%), bblfish (38%)

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ashok_Malhotra (29%), bblfish (38%)

15:43:59 <bblfish> I muted myself

Henry Story: I muted myself

15:44:13 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8

15:44:19 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

15:44:28 <antonis> zakim, ??p8 is me

Antonis Loizou: zakim, ??p8 is me

15:44:28 <Zakim> +antonis; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +antonis; got it

15:44:35 <dret> -q

Erik Wilde: -q

15:44:41 <bblfish> I am thinking I was still found the work on the ontology last week was very useful. For example I now agree with Arnaud that LDPC are sublcass LDPR

Henry Story: I am thinking I was still found the work on the ontology last week was very useful. For example I now agree with Arnaud that LDPC are sublcass LDPR

15:44:42 <TallTed> bblfish - sometimes Zakim's mute is necessary (e.g., line noise isn't cleared by muting handset)

Ted Thibodeau: bblfish - sometimes Zakim's mute is necessary (e.g., line noise isn't cleared by muting handset)

15:45:28 <dret> bblfish says that defining ontologies are very useful exercises when it comes to understanding the issues

Erik Wilde: bblfish says that defining ontologies are very useful exercises when it comes to understanding the issues

15:45:48 <dret> zakim, who is making noise?

Erik Wilde: zakim, who is making noise?

15:45:59 <Zakim> dret, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (29%), dret (5%), bblfish (53%)

Zakim IRC Bot: dret, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (29%), dret (5%), bblfish (53%)

15:46:17 <dret> bblfish sounds like being in a giant hall with revolving doors

Erik Wilde: bblfish sounds like being in a giant hall with revolving doors

15:46:22 <TallTed> why are "defining the LDP spec" and "defining an ontology for LDP" orthogonal?

Ted Thibodeau: why are "defining the LDP spec" and "defining an ontology for LDP" orthogonal?

15:46:27 <bblfish> It's linked data arnaud

Henry Story: It's linked data arnaud

15:46:32 <TallTed> they seem unbreakably interlinked

Ted Thibodeau: they seem unbreakably interlinked

15:46:36 <bblfish> you have to publsih the ldp:Container

Henry Story: you have to publsih the ldp:Container

15:46:37 <SteveS> q+

Steve Speicher: q+

15:46:42 <bblfish> and ldp:Resource

Henry Story: and ldp:Resource

15:46:44 <Arnaud> ack steves

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves

15:47:31 <bblfish> No just define the datamodel

Henry Story: No just define the datamodel

15:47:31 <dret> Yves says there should be a definition for what we can exchange in the protocol.

Erik Wilde: SteveS says there should be a definition for what we can exchange in the protocol.

15:47:54 <bblfish> but the problem is that when you discuss the system, you need to work out what it is that you are speaking about

Henry Story: but the problem is that when you discuss the system, you need to work out what it is that you are speaking about

15:47:55 <SteveS> q+

Steve Speicher: q+

15:48:13 <Arnaud> s/Yves/SteveS/
15:49:15 <Arnaud> ack steves

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves

15:49:50 <dret> SteveS says that the ISSUE-34 proposal separates the interaction model from the (deeper) data model

Erik Wilde: SteveS says that the ISSUE-34 proposal separates the interaction model from the (deeper) data model

15:50:05 <bblfish> Issue-37?

Henry Story: ISSUE-37?

15:50:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open

15:50:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37

15:50:53 <dret> ISSUE-37 has a wiki page, which seems to be largely unused (apart from Ashok's still open questions, and SteveS's additions to the page)

Erik Wilde: ISSUE-37 has a wiki page, which seems to be largely unused (apart from Ashok's still open questions, and SteveS's additions to the page)

15:51:14 <dret> Ashok proposes to bring up other questions for discussions

Erik Wilde: Ashok proposes to bring up other questions for discussions

15:51:15 <JohnArwe> Henry, you said that your understanding of some things has changed based on the discussion, e.g. on the sub-classing.  Have you shared those new understandings on the list?  I confess I'm not caught up on the generous helping of emails yet.

John Arwe: Henry, you said that your understanding of some things has changed based on the discussion, e.g. on the sub-classing. Have you shared those new understandings on the list? I confess I'm not caught up on the generous helping of emails yet.

15:52:52 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

15:53:19 <ericP> q+ to discuss resolving with tests a la http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing#manifest_test_description.2C_EARL_results_submission

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to discuss resolving with tests a la http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing#manifest_test_description.2C_EARL_results_submission

15:53:50 <bblfish> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-37

Henry Story: ISSUE-37">http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-37

15:53:51 <SteveS> q+

Steve Speicher: q+

15:54:08 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

15:54:10 <dret> bblfish maybe unmute?

Erik Wilde: bblfish maybe unmute?

15:54:25 <dret> bblfish you're really hard to understand...

Erik Wilde: bblfish you're really hard to understand...

15:54:28 <TallTed> totally breaking up bblfish

Ted Thibodeau: totally breaking up bblfish

15:54:41 <bblfish> ok, next week

Henry Story: ok, next week

15:54:52 <Arnaud> ack ericp

Arnaud Le Hors: ack ericp

15:54:52 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to discuss resolving with tests a la http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing#manifest_test_description.2C_EARL_results_submission

Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to discuss resolving with tests a la http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing#manifest_test_description.2C_EARL_results_submission

15:55:41 <bblfish> JohnArwe: I for example started understanding why it makes sense that an LDPC is a sublcass of an LDPR

John Arwe: I for example started understanding why it makes sense that an LDPC is a sublcass of an LDPR [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ]

15:55:50 <dret> ericP proposes to start from tests, starting from starting state, interactions, and a resulting state

Erik Wilde: ericP proposes to start from tests, starting from starting state, interactions, and a resulting state

15:56:25 <bblfish> JohnArwe: also one can come up with a good argument on what POSTs as appends on LDPRs that are not LDPCs

John Arwe: also one can come up with a good argument on what POSTs as appends on LDPRs that are not LDPCs [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ]

15:56:59 <bblfish> agree, test cases are good

Henry Story: agree, test cases are good

15:57:03 <JohnArwe> thx Henry.

John Arwe: thx Henry.

15:57:06 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

15:57:12 <dret> Arnaud proposes that focusing on tests might be a practical way to make progress

Erik Wilde: Arnaud proposes that focusing on tests might be a practical way to make progress

15:57:14 <Arnaud> ack steves

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves

15:57:22 <Zakim> -bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish

15:57:38 <JohnArwe> I'll note that this "initial state, message, resulting state" approach is exactly what I used in the newest issue-34 proposal.

John Arwe: I'll note that this "initial state, message, resulting state" approach is exactly what I used in the newest ISSUE-34 proposal.

15:58:30 <dret> SteveS ISSUE-37 may best be addressed by summarizing the current model as spec text, and then work on specific issues

Erik Wilde: SteveS ISSUE-37 may best be addressed by summarizing the current model as spec text, and then work on specific issues

15:58:38 <JohnArwe> ...it does not use this very compact notation, rather it shows the http messages

John Arwe: ...it does not use this very compact notation, rather it shows the http messages

15:59:08 <ericP> JohnArwe, maybe we can assist that issue-34 proposal with concrete examples

Eric Prud'hommeaux: JohnArwe, maybe we can assist that ISSUE-34 proposal with concrete examples

15:59:13 <dret> Arnaud asks Ashok to check his questions on the ISSUE-37 wiki page and see whether any of the questions are not open as separate issues; if so, please raise them

Erik Wilde: Arnaud asks Ashok to check his questions on the ISSUE-37 wiki page and see whether any of the questions are not open as separate issues; if so, please raise them

15:59:18 <ericP> might help folks see how they'd contribute

Eric Prud'hommeaux: might help folks see how they'd contribute

15:59:40 <dret> Arnaud proposes to put ISSUE-37 aside and focus on smaller issues

Erik Wilde: Arnaud proposes to put ISSUE-37 aside and focus on smaller issues

16:00:55 <dret> JohnArwe talks about the ISSUE-34 wiki page and how it's describing the issue

Erik Wilde: JohnArwe talks about the ISSUE-34 wiki page and how it's describing the issue

16:01:36 <JohnArwe> this newest proposal is at http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Issue-34:_Back_to_Basics

John Arwe: this newest proposal is at ISSUE-34:_Back_to_Basics">http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-34:_Back_to_Basics

16:02:00 <JohnArwe> which hangs off the aggregator page for all 34 proposals http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-34

John Arwe: which hangs off the aggregator page for all 34 proposals ISSUE-34">http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-34

16:02:17 <dret> sorry everybody, i must leave for my next call; could somebody continue scribing and then generate the minutes? thanks, bye!

Erik Wilde: sorry everybody, i must leave for my next call; could somebody continue scribing and then generate the minutes? thanks, bye!

16:02:29 <Zakim> -dret

Zakim IRC Bot: -dret

16:02:42 <ericP> Arnaud: next week will choose an approach

Arnaud Le Hors: next week will choose an approach [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ]

16:02:46 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra

16:02:51 <Zakim> -sergio

Zakim IRC Bot: -sergio

16:02:58 <Zakim> -SteveS

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS

16:02:59 <SteveBattle_> bye

Steve Battle: bye

16:03:03 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: please review proposals on issue-34 for next week, we will attempt to choose one on next week's call

Arnaud Le Hors: please review proposals on ISSUE-34 for next week, we will attempt to choose one on next week's call [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

16:03:05 <sergio> I have to leave, bye

Sergio Fernández: I have to leave, bye

16:03:05 <Zakim> -antonis

Zakim IRC Bot: -antonis

16:03:07 <Zakim> -Yves

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yves

16:03:08 <Zakim> -SteveBattle_

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveBattle_

16:03:09 <Zakim> -svillata

Zakim IRC Bot: -svillata

16:03:33 <Zakim> -??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P9

16:03:56 <rogerm> I'm still here as well .......

Roger Menday: I'm still here as well .......

16:05:06 <JohnArwe> roger did you hear the discussion about deciding next week on 34?  so your pages would need to be done.

John Arwe: roger did you hear the discussion about deciding next week on 34? so your pages would need to be done.

16:06:03 <rogerm> i did !!! :)

Roger Menday: i did !!! :)

16:06:07 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

16:07:04 <dret> Arnaud, can you generate the minutes? or is there some incantation i need to type?

Erik Wilde: Arnaud, can you generate the minutes? or is there some incantation i need to type?

16:08:18 <rogerm> John, looking at your issue 34 proposal: I was kind of expecting some by-reference semantics, particularly inside the "Creating a member resource" section. This is needed for the "add an arc" requirement of the original 34, in my opinion. Is there an error here, or an error in my understanding ?

Roger Menday: John, looking at your ISSUE-34 proposal: I was kind of expecting some by-reference semantics, particularly inside the "Creating a member resource" section. This is needed for the "add an arc" requirement of the original 34, in my opinion. Is there an error here, or an error in my understanding ?

16:08:25 <JohnArwe> he should be able to do minutes dret; I did not have to do anything after last week's call

John Arwe: he should be able to do minutes dret; I did not have to do anything after last week's call

16:08:47 <Arnaud> dret: you don't need to do anything

Erik Wilde: you don't need to do anything [ Scribe Assist by Arnaud Le Hors ]

16:09:11 <Arnaud> there is a procedure to turn the irc log into the actual minutes but I can take care of it

Arnaud Le Hors: there is a procedure to turn the irc log into the actual minutes but I can take care of it

16:09:48 <dret> ok, thanks everybody, then!

Erik Wilde: ok, thanks everybody, then!

16:12:14 <JohnArwe> Let's say Roger that crafting it raised the question in my mind of how it should work, but I see that as separable-from 34 and there fore "should be separated".  I do have some immature ideas but literally no one has heard them and until I write them down myself I consider them the rabid ravings of a sleep-deprived Monty Python fan.

John Arwe: Let's say Roger that crafting it raised the question in my mind of how it should work, but I see that as separable-from 34 and there fore "should be separated". I do have some immature ideas but literally no one has heard them and until I write them down myself I consider them the rabid ravings of a sleep-deprived Monty Python fan.

16:12:47 <JohnArwe> ...34 is tangled enough that I was trying to avoid scope creep by the end.

John Arwe: ...34 is tangled enough that I was trying to avoid scope creep by the end.

16:14:03 <JohnArwe> ...if the idea-kernel in my head pans out, it's remarkably free/easy and completely consistent with what's here, as strange as that sounds (the strangeness being Yet Another Reason I treat it as ravings)

John Arwe: ...if the idea-kernel in my head pans out, it's remarkably free/easy and completely consistent with what's here, as strange as that sounds (the strangeness being Yet Another Reason I treat it as ravings)

16:15:52 <JohnArwe> ...I *do* think we need to be able to "add" "listings" of "existing resources" to a "collection", ala bug tracker.  Seems to me that even the most basic use cases "of interest" require that.

John Arwe: ...I *do* think we need to be able to "add" "listings" of "existing resources" to a "collection", ala bug tracker. Seems to me that even the most basic use cases "of interest" require that.

16:16:21 <rogerm> That's the name of issue-34 though ... :) i.e. "adding and removing arcs" ...

Roger Menday: That's the name of ISSUE-34 though ... :) i.e. "adding and removing arcs" ...

16:17:34 <rogerm> yes. I agree. And furthermore, *ALL* predicates coming out of a resource could be used in that ... (?)

Roger Menday: yes. I agree. And furthermore, *ALL* predicates coming out of a resource could be used in that ... (?)

16:17:41 <JohnArwe> ...34 is aggregation, as people have been discussing it.  For some values of those words, people could reasonably argue that containers do them.

John Arwe: ...34 is aggregation, as people have been discussing it. For some values of those words, people could reasonably argue that containers do them.

16:18:32 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen

Zakim IRC Bot: -BartvanLeeuwen

16:20:32 <rogerm> issue-34 is "add an arc"  ..... guess we should check with Richard

Roger Menday: ISSUE-34 is "add an arc" ..... guess we should check with Richard

16:21:59 <Zakim> -EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP

16:22:01 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:22:05 <Zakim> -nmihindu

Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu

16:22:06 <Zakim> -JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe

16:22:06 <Zakim> -TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed



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This revision (#1) generated 2013-01-28 19:34:01 UTC by 'alehors', comments: None