IRC log of gld on 2012-12-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:59:57 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
14:59:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:59 [Zakim]
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15:00:01 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GLD
15:00:02 [trackbot]
Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
15:00:02 [trackbot]
Date: 20 December 2012
15:00:02 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM already started
15:00:10 [MacTed]
Zakim, who's here?
15:00:10 [Zakim]
On the phone I see davidwood, [OpenLink]
15:00:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, PhilA, danbri, Makx, MacTed, trackbot, sandro
15:00:30 [MacTed]
Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
15:00:30 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
15:00:56 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:00:56 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
15:01:02 [Zakim]
+ +
15:01:26 [Zakim]
+ +3539149aabb
15:01:29 [GofranShu]
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15:01:29 [PhilA]
zakim, code?
15:01:29 [Zakim]
the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, PhilA
15:01:34 [agipap]
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15:01:37 [Zakim]
+ +90507301aacc
15:01:57 [Zakim]
15:02:00 [PhilA]
zakim, IPcaller is me
15:02:00 [Zakim]
+PhilA; got it
15:02:25 [DeirdreLee]
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15:02:40 [cygri]
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15:02:58 [agipap]
zakim, +??P15 is me
15:02:58 [Zakim]
sorry, agipap, I do not recognize a party named '+??P15'
15:03:02 [Makx]
I am voip but don't know how to tell zakim that
15:03:03 [PhilA]
15:03:12 [agipap]
zakim, ??P15 is me
15:03:12 [Zakim]
+agipap; got it
15:03:58 [MacTed]
Zakim, who's here?
15:03:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see davidwood, MacTed (muted), +, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, agipap, cygri
15:03:59 [PhilA]
zakim, who is here?
15:04:01 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Biplav, cygri, DeirdreLee, agipap, GofranShu, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, danbri, Makx, MacTed, trackbot, sandro
15:04:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see davidwood, MacTed (muted), +, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, agipap, cygri
15:04:01 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Biplav, cygri, DeirdreLee, agipap, GofranShu, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, danbri, Makx, MacTed, trackbot, sandro
15:04:14 [PhilA]
zakim, aaaa is Biplav
15:04:14 [Zakim]
+Biplav; got it
15:04:38 [bhyland]
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15:05:01 [PhilA]
meeting: GLD Weekly Telecon
15:05:01 [bhyland]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:05:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see davidwood, MacTed (muted), Biplav, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, agipap, cygri
15:05:10 [PhilA]
chair: Bernadette
15:06:13 [PhilA]
scribe: Biplav
15:06:17 [PhilA]
scribeNick: Biplav
15:07:14 [Biplav]
Bernadette: Gives opening remarks
15:07:34 [Makx]
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15:07:35 [bhyland]
Review & accept minutes from last meeting,
15:07:47 [bhyland]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:07:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see davidwood, MacTed (muted), Biplav, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, agipap, cygri
15:08:01 [bhyland]
zakim, aabb is DeirdreLee
15:08:01 [Zakim]
+DeirdreLee; got it
15:08:14 [GofranShu]
15:08:24 [bhyland]
zakim, aacc is Makx
15:08:24 [Zakim]
+Makx; got it
15:08:31 [bhyland]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:08:31 [Zakim]
On the phone I see davidwood, MacTed (muted), Biplav, DeirdreLee, Makx, PhilA, agipap, cygri
15:08:36 [PhilA]
15:08:44 [bhyland]
Minutes accepted
15:08:46 [agipap]
15:08:51 [Makx]
15:09:31 [PhilA]
Collected LC comments on ORG
15:09:42 [Biplav]
Bernadette: last meeting; issues raised but not sure of resolutions.
15:10:49 [bhyland]
s/not sure of resolutions/nothing resolved
15:11:25 [Makx]
15:12:11 [Biplav]
Bernadette: Every WG member should review the status of different streams put together by Sandro.
15:12:13 [PhilA]
ack Makx
15:13:03 [Biplav]
Makx: There was a discussion on vocab reuse by email. Should we take it off-line or in this call?
15:13:33 [Biplav]
Comment: Given we have open slot due to last minute change, vocab reuse could be discussed in the call.
15:15:48 [Biplav]
Agenda change: Serafín Olcoz will note be presenting on Open Assets today.
15:17:13 [Biplav]
Makx: Making request to have 10-15 mins discussion on vocab reuse.
15:17:18 [bhyland]
Topic: RegORG
15:17:20 [PhilA]
->Reg Org ed draft
15:18:23 [Biplav]
PhilA: Outstanding issues highlighted in the latest version.
15:20:00 [Biplav]
PhilA: Make this FPWD candidate.
15:20:10 [Biplav]
Bernadette: Is there a reference implementation?
15:20:54 [Biplav]
PhilA: Business Registers can be seen as existing implementations (England, Australia, ..)
15:20:55 [bhyland]
Would it make sense to have history / genesis of a vocabulary in the introduction? Or might that be considered inappropriate/unnecessary ...
15:21:52 [bhyland]
PhilA: ChrisT w/ Open Corporates has used an earlier version of this. But the real implementation of this has been done by Agis for public spending...
15:22:02 [Biplav]
PhilA: The closest implementation is by Agisilaos Papantoniou
15:22:34 [bhyland]
… for Greek Government payments & receivables
15:23:25 [Biplav]
Agis: Thousands of companies registered in their implementation (Greece)
15:24:06 [bhyland]
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15:24:48 [Biplav]
PhilA: Interest from Sweden, interest from more regions, pent up demand.
15:26:00 [Biplav]
PhilA: UML diagram has been added, simplified.
15:27:56 [Biplav]
PhilA: RegOrg is designed for companies that come into being due to some registration process. <Further describes the intent>
15:28:33 [bhyland]
… Phil walked through diagram for RegOrg.
15:28:51 [bhyland]
15:28:59 [bhyland]
15:29:52 [Biplav]
PhilA: Since companies are registered, adms:identifier is used to describe the registration identification.
15:30:38 [Biplav]
PhilA: Open address on how to have address for organization.
15:30:49 [Biplav]
15:33:13 [Biplav]
PhilA: Describes INSPIRE mandate by EU on how to publish geo-spatial data, .... and how it impacts address description in EU.
15:33:14 [bhyland]
PhilA: Mentioned EU Commission initiative INSPIRE, see
15:33:47 [bhyland]
EU requirements for conforment addresses …
15:34:50 [bhyland]
PhilA: We should be agnostic about specifying addresses. We know there are compliance issues regarding expressing addresses in EU.
15:35:09 [Biplav]
PhilA: Discussion on issue 47.
15:35:55 [cygri]
15:36:00 [bhyland]
ack bhyland
15:36:06 [cygri]
ORG profile:
15:36:16 [Yigal]
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15:36:28 [Biplav]
Issue 47:
15:38:11 [Makx]
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15:39:48 [Zakim]
15:40:06 [Yigal]
zakim, IPcaller is me
15:40:06 [Zakim]
+Yigal; got it
15:40:25 [Makx]
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15:42:10 [agipap]
15:42:12 [bhyland]
cygri: I suggest that RegOrg conformance section conform to ORG profile:
15:42:13 [bhyland]
An ORG profile is a specification for data interchange that adds additional constraints to ORG. Additional constraints in a profile may include (but are not limited to):
15:42:13 [bhyland]
•a minimum set of required terms;
15:42:13 [bhyland]
•classes and properties for additional terms not covered in ORG;
15:42:13 [bhyland]
•controlled vocabularies or controlled sets of URIs to use as acceptable values for properties;
15:42:13 [bhyland]
•guidance on use of pairs of inverse properties (such as selecting only one member of the pair to be included, or requiring that both members be explicitly included);
15:42:13 [bhyland]
•guidance on choice of modelling approach for roles (see ).
15:42:31 [Makx]
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15:42:58 [Makx]
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15:43:50 [cygri]
15:45:40 [PhilA]
ack cygri
15:45:46 [bhyland]
s/conformance section conform to/conformance section include reference to ORG profile
15:45:54 [bhyland]
15:46:10 [bhyland]
15:46:20 [Biplav]
PhilA: For FPWD, we can keep it and resolve it with more discussion.
15:46:36 [PhilA]
15:47:27 [PhilA]
proposed resolution: that RegOrg as currently at be moved to First Public Working Draft
15:47:34 [Makx]
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15:47:46 [cygri]
15:48:00 [Biplav]
15:48:06 [bhyland]
15:48:22 [Makx]
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15:48:26 [MacTed]
15:48:33 [Makx]
15:48:35 [agipap]
15:48:39 [bhyland]
15:49:14 [PhilA]
Resolution: that RegOrg as currently at be moved to First Public Working Draft
15:49:37 [cygri]
15:49:49 [Biplav]
Topic: Reuse of vocabs
15:50:29 [bhyland]
Should W3C vocabs include vocabs that are outside W3C process?
15:51:21 [Biplav]
Makx: would like to know the feedback of the WG beyond what has already been exchanged over email.
15:52:09 [bhyland]
Reference: From: Makx Dekkers []
15:52:09 [bhyland]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:03 AM
15:52:09 [bhyland]
To: Public GLD WG
15:52:09 [bhyland]
Cc: Sandro Hawke; Phil Archer
15:52:09 [bhyland]
Subject: Referencing FOAF
15:52:54 [bhyland]
Makx: Would hate to see W3C reinvent the wheel for deployed vocabularies.
15:53:33 [bhyland]
… Some discussion for a community of vocabulary owners/maintainers to guarantee longterm availability of vocabularies.
15:53:55 [bhyland]
… It is a wide issue that affects any initiative using vocabs.
15:53:58 [bhyland]
15:54:21 [Biplav]
PhilA: Option [2] is the answer. Explains his reasons ...
15:55:42 [bhyland]
PhilA: Recalled discussions in prior W3C standards activities (i.e., POWER), any vocab that depends upon any one person versus an organization with a published (stewardship) plan.
15:56:08 [cygri]
15:56:15 [PhilA]
ack bhyland
15:56:20 [Biplav]
15:57:23 [Biplav]
Bhyland: Makx question is at the core of LD.
15:58:28 [Biplav]
Bhyland: publishing vocab puts an implicit social contract that one would be keeping the vocab alive for a while.
15:58:54 [bhyland]
… W3C has no hesitation in recommending standards / vocabs defined by others.
16:00:21 [PhilA]
I've done some work on this recently...
16:00:50 [cygri]
16:00:53 [Biplav]
Bhyland: There should be a checklist when someone is putting a vocab in public domain, in best practice document.
16:01:26 [bhyland]
16:01:37 [PhilA]
ack cygri
16:02:29 [bhyland]
cygri: We've (DERI) done some work on conformance to a vocabulary and what it means.
16:02:33 [Biplav]
Cygri: reuse can done in a few ways. (a) Conformance is one way.
16:04:03 [bhyland]
… We shouldn't normatively depend on vocabs not defined by an open, consensus driven process...
16:04:05 [Biplav]
Cygri: shouldn't normatively depend on others who have not gone through a formal process.
16:04:30 [PhilA]
This is relevant to ISSUE-50
16:04:55 [PhilA]
16:05:23 [Biplav]
Cygri: We normally mean a weaker form. Who has authority to change and how much is the impact.
16:05:36 [Makx]
16:05:54 [bhyland]
cygri: Not as worried about resources 404'ing rather, more concerned about changing underlying vocabs that are the building blocks of the LOD cloud...
16:07:04 [Biplav]
Bhyland: let's revisit again. Important to get it right or we will have backlash. We need to be rigorous.
16:07:05 [PhilA]
My understanding of cygri's words: The notion of conformance that we define should not depend on factors that are not controlled as carefully as our own work - to which +1
16:07:27 [cygri]
PhilA, exactly.
16:07:52 [PhilA]
ack Biplav
16:07:52 [bhyland]
16:08:22 [PhilA]
Biplav: This problem keeps being repeated, whether it's vocabularies, papers, wiki entries etc., There are patterns of how this is addressed and we should come back to it
16:08:28 [PhilA]
ack Makx
16:08:58 [bhyland]
Biplav: This issue is repeated & there are patterns that we should keep in mind to guide our deliverables/guidance/best practices
16:09:10 [Biplav]
Makx: we should have criteria.
16:09:11 [PhilA]
Makx: Everyone's pointing to a set of criteria. OK, but we eitehr have a local set or we may want to share those criteria - maybe in our BP document
16:09:43 [PhilA]
bhyland: Thanks to everyone for showing up today and throughout the year. Expresses appreciation for everyone's volunteer effort
16:09:57 [Makx]
NO I meant that we should asy in BP that you need to set your own criteria, and maybe later share a commoin set with others
16:10:18 [Zakim]
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16:10:30 [Zakim]
16:10:30 [GofranShu]
thanks bye
16:10:31 [Zakim]
16:10:31 [bhyland]
Meeting & GLD WG for 2012 is officially adjourned! Happy Chanuka, Kwanza and Christmas to you all!
16:10:32 [Zakim]
16:10:37 [agipap]
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16:10:44 [bhyland]
Enjoy the Winter Solstice tommorw!
16:10:54 [bhyland]
16:10:58 [Zakim]
16:12:14 [bhyland]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:12:21 [bhyland]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:12:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate bhyland
16:17:17 [Zakim]
16:17:39 [bhyland]
zakim, davidwood is me
16:17:39 [Zakim]
sorry, bhyland, I do not recognize a party named 'davidwood'
16:17:43 [bhyland]
16:17:47 [Zakim]
16:17:48 [Zakim]
T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended
16:17:48 [Zakim]
Attendees were davidwood, MacTed, +, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, cygri, agipap, Biplav, DeirdreLee, Makx, Yigal
16:18:23 [cygri]
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16:18:40 [bhyland]
PhilA - RRS is being cranky with me ...
16:18:44 [bhyland]
I'm getting:
16:18:45 [bhyland]
Not Found
16:18:45 [bhyland]
The requested URL /2011/gld/wiki/index.php was not found on this server.
16:18:45 [bhyland]
Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
16:19:05 [bhyland]
An unfamiliar error msg. Any ideas?
16:20:20 [cygri]
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16:23:11 [MacTed]
RRSAgent, set logs public
16:23:14 [bhyland]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:23:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate bhyland
16:23:16 [PhilA]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:23:25 [PhilA]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:23:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate PhilA
16:23:51 [MacTed]
logs have to be generated, before the "public" set will take effect
16:24:03 [PhilA]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:24:15 [bhyland]
ok, thanks.
16:24:43 [PhilA]
bhyland: You need to set the permission on the logs - easy to forget
16:26:17 [bhyland]
Thanks, I'll update the checklist in our template
16:33:06 [PhilA]
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