IRC log of crypto on 2012-12-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:48:32 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #crypto
19:48:32 [RRSAgent]
logging to
19:48:34 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:48:36 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SEC_WebCryp
19:48:36 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SEC_WebCryp()3:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
19:48:37 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Cryptography Working Group Teleconference
19:48:37 [trackbot]
Date: 17 December 2012
19:48:50 [wseltzer]
Chair: Virginie
19:49:43 [JimD]
JimD has joined #crypto
19:50:28 [virginie]
agenda+ welcome
19:50:35 [virginie]
agenda ?
19:51:02 [wseltzer]
zakim, clear agenda
19:51:02 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
19:52:38 [virginie]
19:53:08 [virginie]
agenda+ welcome
19:54:06 [virginie]
agenda+ approval for WebCrypto Use Cases for FPWD
19:54:30 [virginie]
agenda+ approval for Web Crypto API for new WD
19:55:23 [emily]
emily has joined #crypto
19:55:24 [virginie]
agenda+ approval for KeyDiscovery API for FPWD
19:55:43 [virginie]
agenda+ next call/F2F
19:58:00 [Zakim]
SEC_WebCryp()3:00PM has now started
19:58:06 [Zakim]
19:58:40 [Zakim]
19:59:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.707.799.aaaa
19:59:08 [emily]
zakim, aaaa is me
19:59:08 [Zakim]
+emily; got it
19:59:13 [JimD]
zakim John_Aberdeen is JimD
19:59:37 [Zakim]
20:00:02 [virginie]
zakim, who is on the phone ?
20:00:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Wendy, JimD, emily, Virginie_Galindo
20:00:24 [wseltzer]
zakim, who's here?
20:00:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Wendy, JimD, emily, Virginie_Galindo
20:00:24 [JimD]
20:00:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see emily, JimD, RRSAgent, virginie, ddahl, jeffh, trackbot, slightlyoff, rsleevi, timeless, Zakim, wseltzer, tobie
20:01:02 [Zakim]
20:01:04 [Zakim]
20:01:06 [markw]
markw has joined #crypto
20:01:29 [Zakim]
20:01:40 [wseltzer]
zakim, Microsoft has John_Simmons
20:01:40 [Zakim]
+John_Simmons; got it
20:01:55 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.540.aabb
20:01:57 [wseltzer]
zakim, ??P8 is Google
20:01:57 [Zakim]
+Google; got it
20:02:03 [Zakim]
20:02:04 [wseltzer]
zakim, Google has rsleevi and wtc
20:02:04 [Zakim]
+rsleevi, wtc; got it
20:02:18 [wseltzer]
zakim, aabb is markw
20:02:18 [Zakim]
+markw; got it
20:02:18 [markw]
Zakim, aabb is Netflix
20:02:19 [Zakim]
sorry, markw, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
20:02:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.257.aacc
20:02:40 [arunranga]
arunranga has joined #crypto
20:02:42 [wseltzer]
zakim, aacc is karen
20:02:42 [Zakim]
+karen; got it
20:02:50 [virginie]
zakim, who is on the phone ?
20:02:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Wendy, JimD, emily, Virginie_Galindo, ddahl, [Microsoft], Google, markw, arunranga, karen
20:02:52 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has John_Simmons
20:02:52 [Zakim]
Google has rsleevi, wtc
20:02:54 [Karen_]
Karen_ has joined #crypto
20:03:14 [markw]
Zakim, rename markw to Netflix
20:03:14 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'rename markw to Netflix', markw
20:03:21 [wtc]
wtc has joined #crypto
20:03:25 [wseltzer]
zakim, markw is really Netflix
20:03:25 [Zakim]
+Netflix; got it
20:03:36 [markw]
Zakim, Netflix has markw
20:03:36 [Zakim]
+markw; got it
20:03:56 [virginie]
20:04:09 [markw]
20:04:45 [wseltzer]
markw: The decision on WebCryptoAPI and KeyDiscoveryAPI should be a single decision
20:05:18 [wseltzer]
virginie: do I understand correctly, if KeyDiscovery is not approved, next step will be to make clear in WebCrytpoAPI that this is under development.
20:05:18 [arunranga]
zakim, mute me
20:05:18 [Zakim]
arunranga should now be muted
20:05:21 [johnsim]
johnsim has joined #crypto
20:05:29 [wseltzer]
markw: but in that case, we wouldn't be able to approve that today
20:05:47 [Zakim]
20:05:57 [wseltzer]
scribenick: rsleevi
20:05:57 [rsleevi]
scribenick: rsleevi
20:06:02 [arunranga]
zakim, who is on the call?
20:06:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Wendy, JimD, emily, Virginie_Galindo, ddahl, [Microsoft], Google, Netflix, arunranga (muted), karen, [Microsoft.a]
20:06:04 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has John_Simmons
20:06:04 [Zakim]
Netflix has markw
20:06:04 [Zakim]
Google has rsleevi, wtc
20:06:10 [mitchz]
mitchz has joined #crypto
20:06:12 [Zakim]
20:06:39 [rsleevi]
Zakim, take up agenda 2
20:06:39 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "approval for WebCrypto Use Cases for FPWD" taken up [from virginie]
20:06:43 [arunranga]
zakim, unmute me
20:06:43 [Zakim]
arunranga should no longer be muted
20:06:44 [rsleevi]
Topic: Use Cases
20:06:46 [wseltzer]
[Use cases:]
20:06:48 [arunranga]
20:06:49 [mitchz]
Zakim, Netflix has mitchz
20:06:49 [Zakim]
+mitchz; got it
20:07:08 [rsleevi]
arunranga: Goal of use cases has always been to primarily document "What will we do first"
20:07:32 [rsleevi]
... taken feedback from markw, rsleevi and wrote use cases document to cover both APIs
20:07:51 [rsleevi]
... if a feature comes from key discovery API, clearly marked as such
20:08:05 [rsleevi]
... more feedback (particularly on OTR) needed, example code still needs work
20:08:14 [wseltzer]
20:08:18 [wseltzer]
q- markw
20:09:07 [rsleevi]
virginie: Hopefully use cases document will clarify what we're trying to reach with the API
20:09:22 [rsleevi]
arunranga: Use Cases document is probably not Rec Track, but as a companion document
20:09:43 [rsleevi]
PROPOSAL: Agreement to publish Use Cases document as FPWD
20:09:53 [JimD]
20:09:53 [rsleevi]
20:09:54 [emily]
20:09:56 [ddahl]
20:09:58 [virginie]
20:10:02 [wseltzer]
20:10:04 [arunranga]
20:10:05 [Karen_]
20:10:15 [wtc]
20:10:51 [johnsim]
20:11:02 [mitchz]
20:11:18 [rsleevi]
RESOLVED: Use Cases document to be published as FPWD
20:11:32 [rsleevi]
ACTION: arun to update Use Cases to conform to Pub Rules
20:11:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-71 - Update Use Cases to conform to Pub Rules [on Arun Ranganathan - due 2012-12-24].
20:11:44 [rsleevi]
Topic: Key Discovery
20:11:53 [rsleevi]
Zakim, take up agenda 4
20:11:53 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "approval for KeyDiscovery API for FPWD" taken up [from virginie]
20:11:56 [wseltzer]
[Key Discovery: ]
20:12:24 [rsleevi]
markw: Scope of key discovery draft has been limited to origin-specific named provisioned keys
20:13:04 [rsleevi]
markw: Changes since last week: Updated async pattern to match core Web Crypto API pattern
20:13:34 [rsleevi]
... returning no keys is considered an 'error' case, although it may represent a normal case (no keys, user not authorized)
20:13:38 [wseltzer]
[Mark's update email: ]
20:13:44 [rsleevi]
... means onsuccess always has 1 or more keys
20:14:18 [Zakim]
20:14:19 [rsleevi]
... introduces NamedKey subclass of Key, exposes new attributes. Object is immutable on creation (id and name CANNOT change)
20:14:28 [rsleevi]
... has a case where underlying key material may disappear while a Key object exists
20:14:57 [rsleevi]
... moves use case from core spec that used discovery into this spec
20:15:01 [rsleevi]
... added to workerglobalscope
20:15:26 [Karen_]
20:15:28 [wtc]
20:15:29 [arunranga]
markw, a "once-over" of the use case would be helpful.
20:15:38 [wseltzer]
ack next
20:15:50 [rsleevi]
karen: Why is cryptokey on window instead of window.crypto
20:16:12 [johnsim]
microsoft.a is tony nadalin
20:16:17 [rsleevi]
markw: The idea was to try to make a clear separation between the optional functionality and the core spec
20:16:23 [rsleevi]
markw: Having two high level objects is a clear way to signal that
20:16:24 [wseltzer]
zakim, Microsoft.a has Tony_Nadalin
20:16:24 [Zakim]
+Tony_Nadalin; got it
20:16:34 [rsleevi]
karen: Isn't putting .cryptokey under .crypto the same?
20:16:37 [wseltzer]
20:17:07 [rsleevi]
markw: Really don't have a strong opinion
20:17:35 [wseltzer]
rlseevi: don't have strong opinion, suggest we take the discussion to the list
20:17:50 [wseltzer]
... how does it interface with core spec, with workers
20:18:02 [wseltzer]
... mostly a question for implementors
20:18:27 [rsleevi]
virginie: This spec is just a first draft, showing we're progressing and well-structuring the specification
20:18:50 [arunranga]
+1 rsleevi, and FWIW I think that we don't need to bring provisioned keys and {generated} keys under the same host object.
20:18:52 [Zakim]
20:18:57 [rsleevi]
wtc: The way you specify the name attribute implies you want to allow multiple keys with the same name
20:19:01 [arunranga]
zakim, mute me
20:19:01 [Zakim]
arunranga should now be muted
20:19:06 [rsleevi]
wtc: Wondering if you have a use case for keys with the same name, or is this an oversight?
20:19:09 [arunranga]
- arunranga
20:19:17 [Zakim]
20:19:36 [wseltzer]
zakim, Microsoft.aa has Mike_Jones
20:19:36 [Zakim]
+Mike_Jones; got it
20:19:51 [rsleevi]
markw: I don't think we have a use case for multiple keys in the same device with the same name
20:20:06 [rsleevi]
markw: The way key discovery was specified is that you get all the keys that match the criteria
20:20:16 [rsleevi]
... currently the only criteria is name, which is an exact match
20:20:26 [rsleevi]
... discussing internally about alternate matching (eg: wildcards) which can return multiple keys
20:20:38 [rsleevi]
... believes it was decided against, so that the outcome was only zero or one keys
20:20:50 [rsleevi]
virginie: wtc, do you see use cases for multiple keys matching the same name
20:20:51 [selfissued]
selfissued has joined #crypto
20:21:01 [selfissued]
Mike Jones online
20:21:31 [rsleevi]
wtc: This was just a question when comparing what Mark specified and what was specified in the FPWD. What was the equivalent attribute in the FPWD implied that it is unique within the origin, but the current draft in Mark's spec has no such requirement
20:21:43 [rsleevi]
markw: The intention was that the name was unique within the origin. We can change that
20:22:20 [rsleevi]
wseltzer: Just to put a voice to what Arun mentioned on IRC. The votes are just to the publication of the documents.
20:22:40 [rsleevi]
... Agreement means you agree the document accurately captures the state of discussion, not necessarily that you agree with whats in the document or that you support all of the features
20:22:46 [rsleevi]
... thanks to everyone for getting to this point
20:22:50 [rsleevi]
20:22:55 [wseltzer]
20:22:56 [rsleevi]
ack wtc
20:23:18 [rsleevi]
PROPOSAL: Publish Key Discovery API as FPWD
20:23:46 [rsleevi]
20:23:50 [markw]
20:23:51 [ddahl]
20:23:52 [JimD]
20:23:53 [Karen_]
20:23:53 [virginie]
20:23:54 [emily]
20:23:54 [wseltzer]
20:23:57 [mitchz]
20:24:16 [selfissued]
20:24:24 [rsleevi]
RESOLVED: Consensus to publish key discovery API
20:25:04 [rsleevi]
virginie: Thanks to Mark for taking up editing this document. It will be submitted for WD with the main API
20:25:19 [wtc_]
wtc_ has joined #crypto
20:25:20 [rsleevi]
ACTION: markw to update Key Discovery API to Pub Rules
20:25:20 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find markw. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
20:25:59 [wtc]
wtc has joined #crypto
20:26:11 [wseltzer]
rsleevi: There have been no changes since we called for publication last week
20:26:26 [wseltzer]
... still some pubrules and typo changes to fix, but no substantive changes
20:26:44 [virginie]
20:27:06 [rsleevi]
PROPOSAL: Publish Web Crypto API ED as the next WD
20:27:25 [rsleevi]
20:27:26 [virginie]
20:27:29 [ddahl]
20:27:30 [emily]
20:27:30 [JimD]
20:27:30 [wtc]
20:27:31 [Karen_]
20:27:34 [mitchz]
20:27:35 [wseltzer]
20:27:42 [markw]
20:28:20 [rsleevi]
RESOLVED: Consensus to publish as next WD
20:28:30 [wseltzer]
20:28:35 [rsleevi]
ACTION: rsleevi to update ED to Pub Rules for next WD
20:28:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-72 - Update ED to Pub Rules for next WD [on Ryan Sleevi - due 2012-12-24].
20:28:48 [rsleevi]
TOPIC: Planning for January
20:28:59 [rsleevi]
Zakim, take up agenda 5
20:28:59 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "next call/F2F" taken up [from virginie]
20:29:03 [selfissued]
20:29:22 [rsleevi]
virginie: Planning for how to get feedback from community about this next WD and getting feedback from the wider community
20:29:51 [rsleevi]
virginie: Key Discovery API is very new, make sure that we're covering the necessary features
20:30:18 [johnsim]
+1 on publishing web crypto API ED
20:30:20 [rsleevi]
... regular call will be one call every two weeks.
20:30:38 [rsleevi]
... call will focus on specific issues to make sure we're helping the editors improve the specification
20:30:57 [rsleevi]
... To decide in January which week we will meet for a F2F
20:31:20 [rsleevi]
... two weeks in March where wseltzer will be free. Need to decide on location
20:31:28 [rsleevi]
... possibilities are Boston and Korea so far
20:31:59 [JimD]
Excellent work. Thanks to the editors!
20:32:26 [rsleevi]
virginie: Agreed. Very good that we have a structured set of documents and that we're progressing
20:32:41 [rsleevi]
... next challenge will be high-level API, being worked on by ddahl, rbarnes, and selfissued
20:33:13 [rsleevi]
virginie: Thanks to everyone for making this call. Next call will be second week of January
20:33:32 [rsleevi]
... January 7 at 20:00 UTC
20:33:38 [wseltzer]
wseltzer has changed the topic to: Next WG Call, January 7, 2000 UTC
20:33:50 [Zakim]
20:33:53 [Zakim]
20:33:54 [Zakim]
20:33:54 [Zakim]
20:33:55 [Karen_]
Karen_ has left #crypto
20:33:55 [Zakim]
20:33:55 [Zakim]
20:33:57 [Zakim]
20:33:57 [Zakim]
20:33:59 [Zakim]
20:33:59 [rsleevi]
Zakim, draft the minutes
20:34:00 [Zakim]
20:34:00 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'draft the minutes', rsleevi
20:34:00 [Zakim]
20:34:00 [Zakim]
SEC_WebCryp()3:00PM has ended
20:34:00 [Zakim]
Attendees were Wendy, +1.707.799.aaaa, emily, Virginie_Galindo, JimD, ddahl, John_Simmons, +1.408.540.aabb, arunranga, rsleevi, wtc, +1.512.257.aacc, karen, markw, [Microsoft],
20:34:00 [Zakim]
... mitchz, Tony_Nadalin, Mike_Jones
20:34:13 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:34:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wseltzer
20:34:35 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, list attendees
20:34:35 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendees', wseltzer. Try /msg RRSAgent help
20:34:44 [wseltzer]
trackbot, end teleconf
20:34:45 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
20:34:45 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
20:34:52 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:34:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
20:34:53 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
20:34:53 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in :
20:34:53 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: arun to update Use Cases to conform to Pub Rules [1]
20:34:53 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
20:34:53 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: markw to update Key Discovery API to Pub Rules [2]
20:34:53 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
20:34:53 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: rsleevi to update ED to Pub Rules for next WD [3]
20:34:53 [RRSAgent]
recorded in