IRC log of egov on 2012-12-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #egov
15:59:13 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:59:23 [PhilA2]
zakim, this is egov
15:59:23 [Zakim]
ok, PhilA2; that matches T&S_EGOV(Atlantic)11:00AM
15:59:31 [PhilA2]
zakim, code?
15:59:32 [alvaro]
Is there a more standard place?
15:59:32 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, PhilA2
15:59:59 [Zakim]
16:00:05 [PhilA2]
zakim, IPcaller.aa is me
16:00:05 [Zakim]
+PhilA2; got it
16:00:59 [Zakim]
16:01:11 [PhilA2]
zakim, who is here
16:01:11 [Zakim]
PhilA2, you need to end that query with '?'
16:01:15 [PhilA2]
zakim, who is here?
16:01:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a], PhilA2, [IPcaller.aa]
16:01:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, GannonDick, PhilA2, alvaro, gwyn_sutherlin, agipap, bhyland, trackbot, MacTed, heath, sandro
16:01:19 [Owen]
Owen has joined #egov
16:01:21 [agipap]
zakim, ipcaller is me
16:01:22 [Zakim]
+agipap; got it
16:01:36 [PhilA2]
scribe: gwyn_sutherlin
16:01:43 [PhilA2]
chair: PhilA
16:01:57 [bhyland]
dialing, my apologies.
16:02:30 [PhilA2]
16:02:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.312.493.aaaa
16:02:43 [PhilA2]
meeting: eGov IG Atlantic time
16:03:15 [Zakim]
+ +1.571.331.aabb
16:03:26 [bhyland]
zakim, aabb is me
16:03:26 [Zakim]
+bhyland; got it
16:03:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.281.aacc
16:03:54 [bhyland]
zakim, who is on the call?
16:03:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see agipap, [IPcaller.a], PhilA2, [IPcaller.aa], +1.312.493.aaaa, bhyland, +1.703.281.aacc
16:04:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.684.aadd
16:04:06 [PhilA2]
zakim, IPcaller is gwyn_sutherlin
16:04:06 [Zakim]
sorry, PhilA2, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
16:04:13 [PhilA2]
zakim, who is here?
16:04:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see agipap, [IPcaller.a], PhilA2, [IPcaller.aa], +1.312.493.aaaa, bhyland, +1.703.281.aacc, +1.202.684.aadd
16:04:15 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Owen, RRSAgent, Zakim, GannonDick, PhilA2, alvaro, gwyn_sutherlin, agipap, bhyland, trackbot, MacTed, heath, sandro
16:04:22 [DanielBennett]
DanielBennett has joined #egov
16:04:47 [PhilA2]
zakim, aacc is Brand
16:04:47 [Zakim]
+Brand; got it
16:04:52 [DanielBennett]
hi yes Daniel Bennett
16:05:05 [PhilA2]
zakim, aadd is DanielBennett
16:05:05 [Zakim]
+DanielBennett; got it
16:05:22 [bhyland]
Chair: bhyland
16:05:35 [bhyland]
Chair: PhilA
16:05:39 [MacTed]
MacTed has joined #egov
16:05:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.301.384.aaee
16:06:06 [bhyland]
Scribe: Gwyn
16:06:10 [Owen]
301 is me
16:06:34 [bhyland]
zakim, aaee is Owne
16:06:34 [Zakim]
+Owne; got it
16:06:41 [bhyland]
16:06:51 [bhyland]
zakim, who is on the call?
16:06:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see agipap, [IPcaller.a], PhilA2, [IPcaller.aa], +1.312.493.aaaa, bhyland, Brand, DanielBennett, Owne
16:06:59 [DanielBennett]
also would like to remind folks of the social media project during the call, please
16:07:09 [DanielBennett]
hey Hudson
16:07:11 [PhilA2]
-> Hudson Hollister presentation
16:07:12 [bhyland]
zakim, aaaa is Hudson
16:07:12 [Zakim]
+Hudson; got it
16:07:22 [bhyland]
zakim, who is on the call?
16:07:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see agipap, [IPcaller.a], PhilA2, [IPcaller.aa], Hudson, bhyland, Brand, DanielBennett, Owne
16:07:27 [DanielBennett]
is Hudson on IRC?
16:08:29 [DanielBennett]
slides or video/
16:08:31 [DanielBennett]
16:09:08 [gwyn_sutherlin]
hudson:begins presentation with background on data transpancy coalition
16:10:00 [gwyn_sutherlin]
founded as voice for technical community and data community with gov't
16:10:05 [Zakim]
16:10:21 [gwyn_sutherlin]
founded april 2012 in US with legislative mandate
16:10:44 [Zakim]
16:11:14 [gwyn_sutherlin]
for focus on organizing data and making it open in 5 different areas with 'data act' pending in US congress
16:12:10 [gwyn_sutherlin]
is only open data gov't law proposed and up for a vote in US with goal of changining the way reporting spending is reported
16:13:44 [DanielBennett]
wow that means there are second acts acts
16:13:47 [gwyn_sutherlin]
due to many complex layer, non-public, of data spending is inaccessible and non-transparant... goal it to change this
16:14:06 [DanielBennett]
a real cliffhanger
16:14:39 [gwyn_sutherlin]
coming to end of session in US congress, ans due to other legistlative pressure, this act will not be addressed this session and will have to be re-addressed in the next session
16:14:50 [gwyn_sutherlin]
why is this important?
16:15:35 [gwyn_sutherlin]
the legislative focus is important because of lack of standarization and publishing of gov't data
16:15:49 [gwyn_sutherlin]
these are the problem the coalition is addressing through legislation
16:16:38 [gwyn_sutherlin]
our webpage shows a youtube link explaning our aims
16:16:51 [gwyn_sutherlin]
hudson: questions?
16:16:52 [bhyland]
16:17:04 [PhilA2]
ack bhyland
16:17:10 [PhilA2]
16:18:14 [DanielBennett]
16:18:37 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: as a co-chair of gov data working group, we work on best practices within org such as 'you-or-I', I didn' know how far along this project was
16:20:02 [PhilA2]
Wendy Seltzer
16:20:14 [gwyn_sutherlin]
... con't... why is the w3 missing in these conversations? there is a gap between executives applauding these projects and yet no support later on? we have lost one of our champions george thomas, a major loss. and asking jaffe, what can we do to get more support?
16:21:11 [gwyn_sutherlin]
...con't... connecting gov't, research, and industry, how can we connent these standards organizations and groups?
16:21:12 [PhilA2]
-> Wendy's short bio
16:21:20 [gwyn_sutherlin]
are you reaching out to other standards organizations?
16:22:37 [bhyland]
s/lost one of our champions/one of our champions has temporarily stepped back for personal reasons/
16:22:40 [gwyn_sutherlin]
hudson: yes, but there is a gap between policy and technical expertise and advocacy. Also, we need to provide 'air support' for our champions. They need more public support, for ex. when there is a legislative proposal pending, this influences the executive branch
16:22:54 [Owen]
W/re mandates, U.S. federal agencies already have a mandate to publish their strategic and performance plans and reports in machine-readable format.
16:23:07 [Owen]
So the issue is how well they will do so.
16:24:00 [Owen]
E-FOIA also requires agencies to make records available in whatever formats they are likely to be requirested.
16:24:01 [gwyn_sutherlin]
hudson: the white house still opposed the data act, their finical office still opposes the act philosophically because they base standards on something else, and not open data.
16:25:27 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: response: so it's just too much to comply. from my perspective we must do a better job of showing how it's less expensive and easy to make these changes. it takes time to write business cases.
16:25:53 [gwyn_sutherlin]
hudson: it also takes cultural change, which you (we) are pursuing.
16:26:03 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: who is paying?
16:27:04 [DanielBennett]
go xbrl
16:27:30 [gwyn_sutherlin]
husdon: membership pays, but it is complicated and members have political motivations. I am not a technical person I am a lawyer. My goal was to make the data regulation simpler. The task force realized the instiutional opposition ws immense.
16:28:50 [DanielBennett]
16:28:58 [gwyn_sutherlin]
hudson: congressional proposals needed techical community's support. I havea dual role-- in congress trying to convince them that tech industry will thank them and convince tech industry that congress wants this.
16:32:19 [gwyn_sutherlin]
phil:question: businesses opposition to standards fancinating.... based on my experience in UK, we had a consultation on open data and were met with friction because suppliers/vendors thought they might lose contract
16:33:02 [gwyn_sutherlin]
hudson: this has not exactly, but we are at the beginning
16:33:57 [PhilA2]
16:35:07 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: response: the contractors in defense, for example, have experience in this change of vendors, but in other areas they may have less and.... the complexities of institutional cultural play a role that need to be considered when making the pitch for change as well as efficicency
16:35:49 [gwyn_sutherlin]
con't... w3 could recommend and help
16:35:55 [DanielBennett]
16:36:05 [gwyn_sutherlin]
phil q: based in DC?
16:36:07 [PhilA2]
acl DanielBennett
16:36:18 [PhilA2]
ack DanielBennett
16:37:30 [bhyland]
s/experience in this change of vendors/experience in the data standards, human & machine readable content
16:39:08 [gwyn_sutherlin]
Daniel: question: how can gov't data website have data readable for humans and machines with html5 for example with micro data availabilty... could you get a larger community around these possiblities, accessibility, human readability?
16:40:32 [gwyn_sutherlin]
hudson: response: human readable component is essential for proposals to be accepted ex: xprl in financial docs
16:41:16 [gwyn_sutherlin]
daniel: in legislative standards I'm looking at micro data.. I'm not sure how far along things are here
16:42:16 [gwyn_sutherlin]
hudson: we have pushed for these standards, and the tech community has been important here. that's why legistation is important. they need more support
16:44:44 [Zakim]
+ +1.509.464.aaff
16:44:46 [gwyn_sutherlin]
daniel: an aside about US gov for non-US members, congress is a mess
16:44:48 [PhilA2]
16:45:14 [PhilA2]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:45:19 [gwyn_sutherlin]
thank you to bernadette for extra info on technical background
16:45:38 [Owen]
PDF/A-3 allows for embedding or attaching other renditions of files, including machine-readable formats, e.g., XML.
16:47:08 [DanielBennett]
thanks Hudson
16:47:33 [bhyland]
+1 great overview, many thanks for sharing about your important efforts — may the force be with you ;-)
16:47:36 [DanielBennett]
reminder that I would like to remind folks of social media project for our group
16:47:44 [alvaro]
16:47:53 [PhilA2]
Topic: Creating Visualizations Using Linked Government Data
16:47:55 [DanielBennett]
+1 Hudson's presentation
16:48:01 [gwyn_sutherlin]
great pres hudson, thanks. interesting work
16:49:05 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alvaro: from 'tetherless world', phd candidate in cognitive studies, looking at linked data...
16:50:16 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alvaro: slide 3: linked data definition. gov't should use linked data because it allows you to publish in a structured manner, friendly, machine readable, connects with others
16:51:09 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 4: challenges remain, such as getting people to use it and explore it. How do we get people to find errors fr exaples?
16:51:55 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 5? linked data allows you to see the big picture and discover and detect anomalies
16:52:17 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 6: an example
16:53:03 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 7: discovering trends, shows graph of tempatures
16:53:44 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 8: visualization is challening. there are some available such as google, etc... but they have limitations
16:54:56 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 9: my solution is 'visualbox', it combines many features of other applications.. next slides take you through steps of using 'visualbox'
16:56:05 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 12: ex of UK school system based on sparql query, slide shows query next slide shows visualization
16:56:43 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 13: you can easily manipulate or change your query because of linked data
16:57:29 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 16: you ability to dervive conclusions or ask complex questions is enhanced with visualization tool because of all the access to linked data
16:58:02 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 17: can generate mixed and linked data with complex visualizations
16:58:40 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 18: many examples of the types of visualizations possiblewith 'visualbox' [very pretty]
16:58:55 [gwyn_sutherlin]
slide 19: more info on how to get 'visualbox'
16:59:02 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alvaro: questions?
16:59:10 [DanielBennett]
16:59:32 [gwyn_sutherlin]
phil: thank you and very intersting.... this is a virtual service? how sophiticated? is it a virtual library or what?
16:59:55 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alvaro: it is a sevice similar like
17:00:40 [PhilA2]
s/it is a sevice similar like/it is a service similar to Drupal/
17:00:48 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alvaro: it allows you to created multiple sparql endpoints and many visualization filters so you have many options
17:01:05 [gwyn_sutherlin]
you have a testing area so you can test your query etc.
17:01:59 [DanielBennett]
a job for xslt
17:02:12 [gwyn_sutherlin]
phil: question: we at w3 focus like linked data, but the developer community doesn't as much, does visualbox allow you to bridge the gaps between different data?
17:02:17 [DanielBennett]
and better yet, rdfa
17:02:47 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alvaro: right now you have a table visualization based on csv
17:02:51 [bhyland]
17:03:07 [gwyn_sutherlin]
phil: can you mix linked and non-linked data or 4 and 5 star data?
17:03:39 [PhilA2]
ack DanielBennett
17:05:13 [gwyn_sutherlin]
daniel: thank you and great presentation. follow-up to idea of bridge between sparql endpoints and other types of data.... there should be a library to allow for that to happen and people in the middle should be able to see the data and then do as they please
17:05:20 [gwyn_sutherlin]
particularly for gov't agencies
17:05:42 [gwyn_sutherlin]
daniel con't: have you played with RDFa?
17:06:02 [gwyn_sutherlin]
q: how are RDFa vs RDF different
17:06:15 [Owen]
The form that Joe Carmel created that Daniel just mentioned is at
17:07:19 [DanielBennett]
and also:
17:08:15 [PhilA2]
ack bhyland
17:08:21 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alavaro: the plan for the future is have sparql as the query language, but to be able to incorporarte other data [is this right???]
17:08:43 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: are you doing this as part of your phd project?
17:09:14 [DanielBennett]
allows you to paste a URL of an XML page and it will transform it into HTML table and expose the metadata in human readable HTML text
17:10:34 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alvaro: not exactly because many people don't use gon't data because of visualization. very few people publish using linked data, or know how to use it, for example in data journals, to I decided I will do this to move these things forward so I decided to create 'visualbox'
17:10:48 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: so it is a product?
17:11:45 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alvaro: it is much more general, because it just for visualization unlike loudspeaker.
17:11:58 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: what are you using on the backend for the linked data?
17:12:08 [Owen]
Here's a file to test at the URL Daniel provided:
17:12:30 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alvaro: it's a more agnositc approach, you can have as many endpoints as you want and query as many as you want.
17:12:46 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: you doin it on the fly? you're doin git all in real time?
17:13:07 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alvaro: I have one that we renew one every week for instance.
17:13:26 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: you're not storing everything in triple store, no persistent store?
17:13:31 [gwyn_sutherlin]
alvaro: no
17:13:39 [gwyn_sutherlin]
phil; thank you.
17:14:17 [PhilA2]
Topic: Gov Linked Data Community Directory
17:14:32 [PhilA2]
17:14:33 [DanielBennett]
reminder to everyone to please contact me with your interest in the social media paper
17:14:51 [DanielBennett]
17:15:02 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: an update about the directory. it's a community started in june 2011
17:15:32 [alvaro]
thanks for having me
17:16:05 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: open source, open standards compliant, RDF, we still have lots to do in terms of visualizations.
17:16:35 [GannonDick]
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17:16:36 [PhilA2]
Community Directory based us Callimachus (open source tool
17:16:46 [PhilA2]
s/based us/ based on/
17:16:47 [Zakim]
17:16:54 [bhyland]
17:17:32 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: we are working on regulatory groups links
17:18:27 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: in terms of visualisations, looking at directory we use maps and we want imput so that it can by what the community wants
17:20:13 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: in terms of linked data ethos, there shouldn't be one directory, but it is open source and we want people to use it, have the RDFa, use the data, continue to link it and know what is available
17:20:23 [gwyn_sutherlin]
bhyland: questions?
17:20:27 [DanielBennett]
17:20:47 [PhilA2]
topic: Social Media documentation
17:20:53 [gwyn_sutherlin]
phil: daniel
17:21:09 [bhyland]
If you have further questions about the LOD Community Directory, please email the W3C public GLD WG <>
17:21:37 [Zakim]
17:22:06 [gwyn_sutherlin]
DanielBennett: put up notes on wiki for project on social media, please come forword, contact me by email to start working on different aspects.
17:22:18 [bhyland]
Any suggestions you have about the directory & what you'd like to see are welcome. WE're going to refocus on improving the UI & workflow, including adding RDFa generation to be added so the site pro-actively slurps up RDFa rather requiring users to update the directory. Stay tuned.
17:22:48 [gwyn_sutherlin]
DanielBennett: alternate meeting time?
17:23:12 [gwyn_sutherlin]
PhilA2: will check on alternate meeting time
17:23:16 [PhilA2]
topic: Crossover Workshop
17:23:16 [PhilA2]
17:23:30 [bhyland]
s/we want imput so that it can by/we want input on what you'd like to see in the directory
17:23:40 [DanielBennett]
for the other time zone folks. look at wiki homepage
17:24:28 [gwyn_sutherlin]
PhilA2: crossover project meeting coming up (see link) it focuses on policy.. coming up in DC.
17:25:09 [gwyn_sutherlin]
PhilA2: closing and thanks to everyone.
17:25:30 [DanielBennett]
thanks. happy new year. merry xmas. happy happy happy
17:25:35 [Zakim]
17:25:37 [Zakim]
17:25:39 [Zakim]
- +1.509.464.aaff
17:25:39 [Zakim]
17:25:40 [Zakim]
17:25:42 [Zakim]
17:25:44 [Zakim]
17:25:45 [agipap]
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17:25:55 [PhilA2]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:25:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate PhilA2
17:25:56 [Zakim]
17:25:57 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV(Atlantic)11:00AM has ended
17:25:57 [Zakim]
Attendees were PhilA2, agipap, +1.312.493.aaaa, +1.571.331.aabb, bhyland, +1.703.281.aacc, +1.202.684.aadd, Brand, DanielBennett, +1.301.384.aaee, Owne, Hudson, [IPcaller],
17:25:57 [Zakim]
... +1.509.464.aaff
17:26:08 [PhilA2]
rrsagent, generate minutes
17:26:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate PhilA2
17:29:29 [PhilA2]
scribeNick: gywn_sutherlin
17:29:33 [PhilA2]
rrsagent, generate minutes
17:29:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate PhilA2
17:33:10 [bhyland]
Thanks PhilA2 for chairing
17:44:17 [PhilA2]
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