IRC log of rd on 2012-12-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:24:31 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rd
14:24:31 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:24:33 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:24:35 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7394
14:24:35 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:24:36 [trackbot]
Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:24:36 [trackbot]
Date: 12 December 2012
14:25:03 [sharper]
Agenda+ Mobile Accessibility Research Roadmap
14:25:09 [sharper]
zakim, save agenda
14:25:16 [Zakim]
ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to
14:25:16 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 1
14:25:18 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Mobile Accessibility Research Roadmap" taken up [from sharper]
14:25:20 [peter]
Zakim, mute me
14:25:20 [Zakim]
sorry, peter, I don't know what conference this is
14:28:02 [sharper]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:28:02 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:28:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sharper
14:28:11 [sharper]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:28:11 [Zakim]
I notice WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has restarted
14:28:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jim_Allan, peter, ??P31
14:28:24 [annika]
annika has joined #rd
14:28:26 [sharper]
zakim, ??P31 is sharper
14:28:26 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
14:28:33 [sharper]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:28:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jim_Allan, peter, sharper
14:28:51 [sloandr]
sloandr has joined #rd
14:29:06 [Zakim]
14:29:20 [Zakim]
14:29:35 [Zakim]
14:29:52 [sloandr]
zakim, ??P32 is me
14:29:52 [Zakim]
+sloandr; got it
14:30:02 [Judy]
Judy has joined #rd
14:30:22 [Zakim]
14:31:00 [annika]
zakim, ??P42 is me
14:31:00 [Zakim]
+annika; got it
14:31:28 [sharper]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:31:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jim_Allan, peter, sharper, sloandr, Shawn, Shadi, annika
14:31:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.245.aaaa
14:32:32 [christos]
christos has joined #rd
14:32:35 [markel]
markel has joined #rd
14:32:42 [clayton]
clayton has joined #rd
14:32:48 [Zakim]
14:33:00 [Zakim]
14:33:15 [christos]
zakim, ??P6 is me
14:33:15 [Zakim]
+christos; got it
14:33:23 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
14:33:23 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
14:33:24 [christos]
zakim, mute me
14:33:25 [Zakim]
christos should now be muted
14:33:34 [sloandr]
zakim, mute me
14:33:34 [Zakim]
sloandr should now be muted
14:33:35 [peter]
Zakim, mute me
14:33:35 [Zakim]
peter should now be muted
14:33:35 [annika]
zakim, mute me
14:33:35 [Zakim]
annika should now be muted
14:33:59 [Zakim]
14:34:14 [sharper]
zakim, ??1.202.245.aaaa is clayton
14:34:14 [Zakim]
sorry, sharper, I do not recognize a party named '??1.202.245.aaaa'
14:34:19 [markel]
zakim, ??P44 is markel
14:34:19 [Zakim]
sorry, markel, I do not recognize a party named '??P44'
14:34:36 [shawn]
zakim, aaaa is Clayton
14:34:36 [Zakim]
+Clayton; got it
14:35:00 [shawn]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:35:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jim_Allan, peter (muted), sharper, sloandr (muted), Shawn, Shadi (muted), annika (muted), Clayton, christos (muted), Judy, ??P44
14:35:03 [markel]
zakim, ??P44 is me
14:35:03 [Zakim]
+markel; got it
14:35:10 [peter]
zakim, ack
14:35:10 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'ack', peter
14:35:13 [peter]
14:35:16 [peter]
14:35:42 [shawn]
shawn has changed the topic to: NOTE: Simon recording (but will not make it public)
14:36:02 [shawn]
zakim, mute me
14:36:02 [Zakim]
Shawn should now be muted
14:36:49 [Judy]
14:36:55 [sharper]
ack jud
14:37:02 [giorgio]
giorgio has joined #rd
14:37:12 [Zakim]
+ +1.609.734.aabb
14:37:53 [yeliz]
yeliz has joined #rd
14:39:29 [Zakim]
14:39:56 [Zakim]
14:40:02 [peter]
Zakim, >>p30 is me
14:40:02 [Zakim]
sorry, peter, I do not recognize a party named '>>p30'
14:40:11 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:40:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jim_Allan, sharper, sloandr (muted), Shawn (muted), Shadi (muted), annika (muted), Clayton, christos (muted), Judy, markel, +1.609.734.aabb, ??P30
14:40:15 [peter]
zakim, ??p30 is me
14:40:15 [Zakim]
+peter; got it
14:40:28 [shadi]
zakim, where is 609?
14:40:28 [Zakim]
North American dialing code 1.609 is New Jersey
14:40:33 [peter]
Zakim, mute me
14:40:33 [Zakim]
peter should now be muted
14:40:46 [shadi]
ack me
14:41:34 [giorgio]
Shadi, I'm unable to connect to the phone server. I'll follow through IRC.
14:41:50 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
14:41:50 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
14:42:02 [shadi]
giorgio, yeliz, are you both using SIP?
14:42:11 [yeliz]
I am calling from Skype
14:42:15 [peter]
(z-akim seems to drop me every 15min (or firewall?) if I disconnect every 15m - I'll be right back :)
14:42:19 [mhakkinen]
mhakkinen has joined #rd
14:42:34 [yeliz]
it says the call is full, no more parties can be attended
14:42:35 [yeliz]
14:42:44 [shadi]
14:42:47 [yeliz]
14:42:55 [Zakim]
14:43:03 [shadi]
ok, yeliz i dropped, please join
14:43:23 [shadi]
14:43:35 [Zakim]
14:43:48 [yeliz]
zakim, [IPcaller] is yeliz
14:43:48 [Zakim]
+yeliz; got it
14:43:52 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
14:43:52 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
14:43:55 [yeliz]
Thanks Sahdi
14:43:56 [yeliz]
14:44:27 [shadi]
zakim, call shadi-617
14:44:27 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; the call is being made
14:44:28 [Zakim]
14:44:38 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
14:44:38 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
14:44:58 [giorgio]
Yes, I tried to use SIP and zakim told me no more connections are available.
14:45:45 [shadi]
zakim, aabb is probably mhakkinen
14:45:45 [Zakim]
+mhakkinen?; got it
14:46:49 [shadi]
simon, i'll try to get more lines on the fly
14:46:59 [Zakim]
14:47:19 [giorgio]
I'll try.
14:48:06 [giorgio]
same thing
14:48:13 [giorgio]
party is full.
14:48:23 [JAllan]
jB: mobile is a core issue for W3 - Open web Platform ( a collection of standards)
14:48:47 [giorgio]
never mind: I was planning to join you until 4pm CET after that I have another meeting.
14:52:42 [shawn]
zakim, call shawn-617
14:52:42 [Zakim]
ok, shawn; the call is being made
14:52:44 [Zakim]
14:53:01 [shawn]
zakim, mute me
14:53:02 [Zakim]
Shawn should now be muted
14:53:09 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #rd
14:53:15 [shawn]
14:55:08 [peter]
(locally :)
14:55:10 [Zakim]
14:55:40 [shadi]
scribing should ideally be in irc so that we can generate the minutes as usual
14:56:01 [peter]
oi, was dropped and now also get the "conference is full error"
14:56:07 [jeanne]
zakim, call jeanne-cell
14:56:07 [Zakim]
I am sorry, jeanne; I do not know a number for jeanne-cell
14:56:10 [peter]
**could someone else pick up taking notes
14:56:15 [shadi]
peter, please dial *0 and the operator will add you to the call
14:56:16 [peter]
14:56:17 [jeanne]
zakim, call jeanne-mobile
14:56:17 [Zakim]
ok, jeanne; the call is being made
14:56:18 [Zakim]
14:56:23 [shadi]
ack me
14:56:34 [JAllan]
scribe: jallan
14:56:59 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
14:56:59 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
14:57:16 [JAllan]
topic: Mobile web in 10 years
14:57:53 [JAllan]
mh: research on mobile devices. multimodal interaction...
14:58:25 [JAllan]
sensors - how devices is being held, environmental issues.
14:58:45 [JAllan]
also, gestures, facial recognition
14:59:25 [jeanne]
q+ to add to Mark's in regard to Google Glass and overlays
15:00:29 [sharper]
ack jea
15:00:29 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to add to Mark's in regard to Google Glass and overlays
15:00:36 [JAllan]
sh: convergence. desktop and mobile. need to define API and other modalities to work on mobile and desktop. highly decoupled interfaces is the way forward.
15:00:48 [clayton]
what is the command to get on the queue?
15:01:03 [shadi]
clayton, type "q+"
15:01:10 [clayton]
ok, thanks
15:01:35 [JAllan]
jeanne: google glass, gesture oriented.
15:01:58 [JAllan]
... must integrate mobile into all standards. Can't be separate.
15:02:52 [JAllan]
clayton: important to position work as part of everything - not a separate entity
15:02:56 [Judy]
15:03:22 [JAllan]
... mobile is potenially misleading. conveys exclusiviity
15:03:23 [sharper]
ack judy
15:03:46 [JAllan]
judy: +1 to jeanne for integration of standards.
15:05:21 [JAllan]
... indie UI work - gestural interaction. Device independent principle from W3 years ago. proper language is important to convey what we are doing.
15:05:26 [christos]
15:05:53 [JAllan]
... make sure folks know how we are framing our message
15:05:53 [christos]
ack me
15:05:55 [sharper]
ack chr
15:06:24 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #rd
15:06:59 [christos]
zakim, mute me
15:06:59 [Zakim]
christos should now be muted
15:07:16 [shadi]
michael, please use dial-back function
15:07:29 [JAllan]
christos: mobile devices penetrating the environment, allowing other devices to be web enabled and communicte with other devices and people
15:07:33 [markel]
15:07:39 [sharper]
ack mark
15:07:59 [Zakim]
15:08:08 [JAllan]
markel: based on past 10 years... mobile interaction moving to desktop.
15:09:00 [JAllan]
... standards lag behind - always reacting.
15:09:44 [JAllan]
... need to get better at anticipating the changes. develop mechanisms to shorten reaction times
15:09:51 [clayton]
a great point
15:10:13 [JAllan]
sharper: how to approach this?
15:10:18 [clayton]
15:10:22 [Zakim]
15:10:24 [sharper]
ack clay
15:10:30 [peter]
Zakim, mute me
15:10:30 [Zakim]
Peter should now be muted
15:10:43 [peter]
15:11:17 [JAllan]
clayton: reinforces push down into tool stack. when innovating that ingredients are accessible
15:11:53 [JAllan]
... javascript - probably using jquery - should use the A11y tools in jquery.
15:12:31 [JAllan]
... do more work in CMS and make them more accessible and to innovate in the mobile space
15:13:19 [JAllan]
... move to innovating in content rather than appearance. what is the substance or interaction rather than appearance
15:13:22 [sharper]
ack peter
15:13:23 [peter]
Zakim, ack me
15:13:23 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
15:13:27 [yeliz]
15:14:06 [JAllan]
peter: adding mobile to existing spec +1. but how does it happen?
15:14:26 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
15:14:26 [Zakim]
Shadi was already muted, shadi
15:14:38 [peter]
Zakim, mute me
15:14:38 [Zakim]
Peter should now be muted
15:14:39 [JAllan]
... specs becoming quite long, and harder to understand. need stategies for integration
15:14:46 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute yeliz
15:14:46 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
15:14:46 [sharper]
ack yeli
15:14:59 [yeliz]
zakim, mute me
15:14:59 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
15:15:32 [JAllan]
sharper: recaps, future, harmonization with mobile, etc.
15:16:40 [JAllan]
cooper: mobile devices expanding. devices converging. A11Y issues are combining.
15:16:52 [sharper]
15:17:05 [JAllan]
... indieUI - genisis in mobile but not specific to mobile.
15:17:43 [JAllan]
... tablets - touch screen, also on desktops as well as phones.
15:18:09 [JAllan]
... expanding range of devices and interfaces and interactions
15:18:58 [mhakkinen]
15:19:03 [JAllan]
... api for compasses, accelerometers, etc. may also move to desktop
15:19:06 [sharper]
ack mark
15:19:13 [Zakim]
15:19:49 [JAllan]
mark: haptic feedback on mobile. non-visual access and making information more detectable.
15:20:14 [JAllan]
... consistency of experience based on platform and form factor. need research on this.
15:20:38 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute yeliz
15:20:38 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
15:20:46 [JAllan]
... find ways to map effects so the experience is equivalent across devices.
15:20:58 [clayton]
haptics are likely to be very important for access to non textual content
15:21:09 [JAllan]
yeliz: good to review the past.
15:21:25 [clayton]
(on any device, not just mobile, to illustrate that point once more)
15:21:41 [sharper]
15:21:49 [JAllan]
... one issue - how to bring in developers. what will they be doing.
15:21:54 [yeliz]
zakim, mute yeliz
15:21:54 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
15:22:02 [sharper]
ack mhak
15:22:12 [markel]
15:22:20 [sharper]
ack mark
15:22:34 [peter]
(ps. still following on IRC just waiting to re-join zakim)
15:23:11 [JAllan]
markel: how to shorten reaction times. question of awareness - if we see it coming on some device - should anticipate that it will appear on other platforms...plan for it.
15:24:00 [JAllan]
sharper: should WAI create groups based on non-a11y groups or shadow them...
15:24:00 [sharper]
ack judy
15:24:45 [markel]
yes, group that do vigilance work…that might work
15:24:47 [JAllan]
judy: PF group does this. shadows technical working groups and comments on ~ 20 groups a year.
15:25:12 [JAllan]
... a great need for people, expertise to work on these efforts.
15:25:21 [shadi]
15:25:27 [clayton]
involving people with disabilities in that work would be especially valuable
15:25:28 [markel]
15:26:14 [shadi]
ack me
15:26:17 [sharper]
ack shad
15:26:18 [JAllan]
... enormous in scale. looking for technology agnostics to over arch all specs
15:27:28 [JAllan]
shadi: some working groups good at coming to WAI. RDWG has a role in seeing trends/developments and bringing them to groups attention
15:28:05 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
15:28:05 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
15:28:07 [JAllan]
... 3rd layer, review spec for a11y, track R&D, id issues
15:28:12 [sharper]
ack mark
15:28:13 [JAllan]
sharper +1
15:29:05 [sharper]
ack judy
15:29:08 [JAllan]
markel: need to have a methodology for quicker iterations of specs.
15:29:40 [Zakim]
15:30:03 [MichaelC]
q+ to mention community groups
15:30:25 [JAllan]
judy: W3 moving more toward agile development. but 15 days with current levels of participation is a challange
15:30:52 [JAllan]
... important to get UNDERSTANDING of what is needed and how to move forward.
15:31:20 [sharper]
ack michae
15:31:20 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to mention community groups
15:31:24 [JAllan]
... important to respond well, have a core understanding...less emphasis on timing
15:32:11 [JAllan]
cooper: community groups is a way to start trending/explore a topic, them bubble up to more established groups
15:32:44 [markel]
15:32:47 [christos]
15:32:49 [clayton]
15:32:49 [yeliz]
15:32:51 [JAllan]
sharper: Did folks find this useful? should we do this format for more Notes.
15:32:52 [mhakkinen]
15:32:57 [JAllan]
15:33:12 [shawn]
+1 useful (not sure if all topics will have the same input)
15:33:15 [peter]
+1 on this being useful
15:33:49 [sloandr]
sorry, my skype connection dropped back there - but need to leave the call about now as I have another appointment
15:33:50 [JAllan]
judy: appreciate call. might be relevant for some topics. as the group has a full plate. it is one approach.
15:33:55 [jeanne]
+1 appreciated the invite for related groups.
15:34:11 [JAllan]
+1 good to collaborate
15:34:58 [markel]
15:35:01 [clayton]
thank you!
15:35:02 [markel]
markel has left #rd
15:35:04 [shadi]
ack me
15:35:08 [christos]
15:35:08 [peter]
15:35:11 [Zakim]
15:35:12 [yeliz]
15:35:12 [Zakim]
15:35:12 [Zakim]
15:35:13 [Zakim]
15:35:13 [Zakim]
15:35:13 [Zakim]
15:35:14 [Zakim]
15:35:15 [Zakim]
15:35:17 [Zakim]
15:35:17 [Zakim]
15:35:18 [Zakim]
15:35:21 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has left #rd
15:35:26 [Zakim]
15:35:26 [JAllan]
JAllan has left #rd
15:36:02 [sloandr]
sloandr has left #rd
15:37:43 [markel]
markel has joined #rd
15:39:22 [shawn]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:39:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see yeliz
15:39:28 [shawn]
zakim, drop yeliz
15:39:28 [Zakim]
yeliz is being disconnected
15:39:30 [Zakim]
WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
15:39:30 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jim_Allan, peter, sharper, Shawn, Shadi, sloandr, annika, +1.202.245.aaaa, Judy, christos, Clayton, markel, +1.609.734.aabb, yeliz, mhakkinen?, Jeanne, Cooper
15:39:55 [shawn]
shawn has changed the topic to:
15:39:58 [shawn]
shawn has left #rd
15:47:13 [shadi]
trackbot, end meeting
15:47:13 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
15:47:13 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
15:47:21 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:47:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
15:47:22 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
15:47:22 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items