14:24:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
14:24:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-rd-irc
14:24:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:24:35 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
14:24:35 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:24:36 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:24:36 <trackbot> Date: 12 December 2012
14:25:03 <sharper> Agenda+ Mobile Accessibility Research Roadmap
14:25:09 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
14:25:16 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-rd-agenda.rdf
14:25:16 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
14:25:18 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Mobile Accessibility Research Roadmap" taken up [from sharper]
14:25:20 <peter> Zakim, mute me
14:25:20 <Zakim> sorry, peter, I don't know what conference this is
14:28:02 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
14:28:02 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:28:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-rd-minutes.html sharper
14:28:11 <sharper> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:28:11 <Zakim> I notice WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has restarted
14:28:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jim_Allan, peter, ??P31
14:28:24 <annika> annika has joined #rd
14:28:26 <sharper> zakim, ??P31 is sharper
14:28:26 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
14:28:33 <sharper> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:28:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jim_Allan, peter, sharper
14:28:51 <sloandr> sloandr has joined #rd
14:29:06 <Zakim> +??P32
14:29:20 <Zakim> +Shawn
14:29:35 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:29:52 <sloandr> zakim, ??P32 is me
14:29:52 <Zakim> +sloandr; got it
14:30:02 <Judy> Judy has joined #rd
14:30:22 <Zakim> +??P42
14:31:00 <annika> zakim, ??P42 is me
14:31:00 <Zakim> +annika; got it
14:31:28 <sharper> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:31:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jim_Allan, peter, sharper, sloandr, Shawn, Shadi, annika
14:31:39 <Zakim> + +1.202.245.aaaa
14:32:32 <christos> christos has joined #rd
14:32:35 <markel> markel has joined #rd
14:32:42 <clayton> clayton has joined #rd
14:32:48 <Zakim> +??P6
14:33:00 <Zakim> +Judy
14:33:15 <christos> zakim, ??P6 is me
14:33:15 <Zakim> +christos; got it
14:33:23 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:33:23 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:33:24 <christos> zakim, mute me
14:33:25 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
14:33:34 <sloandr> zakim, mute me
14:33:34 <Zakim> sloandr should now be muted
14:33:35 <peter> Zakim, mute me
14:33:35 <Zakim> peter should now be muted
14:33:35 <annika> zakim, mute me
14:33:35 <Zakim> annika should now be muted
14:33:59 <Zakim> +??P44
14:34:14 <sharper> zakim, ??1.202.245.aaaa is clayton
14:34:14 <Zakim> sorry, sharper, I do not recognize a party named '??1.202.245.aaaa'
14:34:19 <markel> zakim, ??P44 is markel
14:34:19 <Zakim> sorry, markel, I do not recognize a party named '??P44'
14:34:36 <shawn> zakim, aaaa is Clayton
14:34:36 <Zakim> +Clayton; got it
14:35:00 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:35:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jim_Allan, peter (muted), sharper, sloandr (muted), Shawn, Shadi (muted), annika (muted), Clayton, christos (muted), Judy, ??P44
14:35:03 <markel> zakim, ??P44 is me
14:35:03 <Zakim> +markel; got it
14:35:10 <peter> zakim, ack
14:35:10 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ack', peter
14:35:13 <peter> ack
14:35:16 <peter> yup
14:35:42 <shawn> shawn has changed the topic to: NOTE: Simon recording (but will not make it public)
14:36:02 <shawn> zakim, mute me
14:36:02 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
14:36:49 <Judy> q+
14:36:55 <sharper> ack jud
14:37:02 <giorgio> giorgio has joined #rd
14:37:12 <Zakim> + +1.609.734.aabb
14:37:53 <yeliz> yeliz has joined #rd
14:39:29 <Zakim> -peter
14:39:56 <Zakim> +??P30
14:40:02 <peter> Zakim, >>p30 is me
14:40:02 <Zakim> sorry, peter, I do not recognize a party named '>>p30'
14:40:11 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:40:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jim_Allan, sharper, sloandr (muted), Shawn (muted), Shadi (muted), annika (muted), Clayton, christos (muted), Judy, markel, +1.609.734.aabb, ??P30
14:40:15 <peter> zakim, ??p30 is me
14:40:15 <Zakim> +peter; got it
14:40:28 <shadi> zakim, where is 609?
14:40:28 <Zakim> North American dialing code 1.609 is New Jersey
14:40:33 <peter> Zakim, mute me
14:40:33 <Zakim> peter should now be muted
14:40:46 <shadi> ack me
14:41:34 <giorgio> Shadi, I'm unable to connect to the phone server. I'll follow through IRC.
14:41:50 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:41:50 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:42:02 <shadi> giorgio, yeliz, are you both using SIP?
14:42:11 <yeliz> I am calling from Skype
14:42:15 <peter> (z-akim seems to drop me every 15min (or firewall?) if I disconnect every 15m - I'll be right back :)
14:42:19 <mhakkinen> mhakkinen has joined #rd
14:42:34 <yeliz> it says the call is full, no more parties can be attended
14:42:35 <yeliz> !
14:42:44 <shadi> hmmm
14:42:47 <yeliz> :(
14:42:55 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:43:03 <shadi> ok, yeliz i dropped, please join
14:43:23 <shadi> s/it/in
14:43:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:43:48 <yeliz> zakim, [IPcaller] is yeliz
14:43:48 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
14:43:52 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
14:43:52 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:43:55 <yeliz> Thanks Sahdi
14:43:56 <yeliz> Shadi
14:44:27 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
14:44:27 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
14:44:28 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:44:38 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:44:38 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:44:58 <giorgio> Yes, I tried to use SIP and zakim told me no more connections are available.
14:45:45 <shadi> zakim, aabb is probably mhakkinen
14:45:45 <Zakim> +mhakkinen?; got it
14:46:49 <shadi> simon, i'll try to get more lines on the fly
14:46:59 <Zakim> -Shawn
14:47:19 <giorgio> I'll try.
14:48:06 <giorgio> same thing
14:48:13 <giorgio> party is full.
14:48:23 <JAllan> jB: mobile is a core issue for W3 - Open web Platform ( a collection of standards)
14:48:47 <giorgio> never mind: I was planning to join you until 4pm CET after that I have another meeting.
14:52:42 <shawn> zakim, call shawn-617
14:52:42 <Zakim> ok, shawn; the call is being made
14:52:44 <Zakim> +Shawn
14:53:01 <shawn> zakim, mute me
14:53:02 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
14:53:09 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #rd
14:53:15 <shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/
14:55:08 <peter> (locally :)
14:55:10 <Zakim> -peter
14:55:40 <shadi> scribing should ideally be in irc so that we can generate the minutes as usual
14:56:01 <peter> oi, was dropped and now also get the "conference is full error"
14:56:07 <jeanne> zakim, call jeanne-cell
14:56:07 <Zakim> I am sorry, jeanne; I do not know a number for jeanne-cell
14:56:10 <peter> **could someone else pick up taking notes
14:56:15 <shadi> peter, please dial *0 and the operator will add you to the call
14:56:16 <peter> (errrr)
14:56:17 <jeanne> zakim, call jeanne-mobile
14:56:17 <Zakim> ok, jeanne; the call is being made
14:56:18 <Zakim> +Jeanne
14:56:23 <shadi> ack me
14:56:34 <JAllan> scribe: jallan
14:56:59 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:56:59 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:57:16 <JAllan> topic: Mobile web in 10 years
14:57:53 <JAllan> mh: research on mobile devices. multimodal interaction...
14:58:25 <JAllan> sensors - how devices is being held, environmental issues.
14:58:45 <JAllan> also, gestures, facial recognition
14:59:25 <jeanne> q+ to add to Mark's in regard to Google Glass and overlays
15:00:29 <sharper> ack jea
15:00:29 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to add to Mark's in regard to Google Glass and overlays
15:00:36 <JAllan> sh: convergence. desktop and mobile. need to define API and other modalities to work on mobile and desktop. highly decoupled interfaces is the way forward.
15:00:48 <clayton> what is the command to get on the queue?
15:01:03 <shadi> clayton, type "q+"
15:01:10 <clayton> ok, thanks
15:01:35 <JAllan> jeanne: google glass, gesture oriented.
15:01:58 <JAllan> ... must integrate mobile into all standards. Can't be separate.
15:02:52 <JAllan> clayton: important to position work as part of everything - not a separate entity
15:02:56 <Judy> q+
15:03:22 <JAllan> ... mobile is potenially misleading. conveys exclusiviity
15:03:23 <sharper> ack judy
15:03:46 <JAllan> judy: +1 to jeanne for integration of standards.
15:05:21 <JAllan> ... indie UI work - gestural interaction. Device independent principle from W3 years ago. proper language is important to convey what we are doing.
15:05:26 <christos> q+
15:05:53 <JAllan> ... make sure folks know how we are framing our message
15:05:53 <christos> ack me
15:05:55 <sharper> ack chr
15:06:24 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #rd
15:06:59 <christos> zakim, mute me
15:06:59 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
15:07:16 <shadi> michael, please use dial-back function
15:07:29 <JAllan> christos: mobile devices penetrating the environment, allowing other devices to be web enabled and communicte with other devices and people
15:07:33 <markel> q+
15:07:39 <sharper> ack mark
15:07:59 <Zakim> +Cooper
15:08:08 <JAllan> markel: based on past 10 years... mobile interaction moving to desktop.
15:09:00 <JAllan> ... standards lag behind - always reacting.
15:09:44 <JAllan> ... need to get better at anticipating the changes. develop mechanisms to shorten reaction times
15:09:51 <clayton> a great point
15:10:13 <JAllan> sharper: how to approach this?
15:10:18 <clayton> q+
15:10:22 <Zakim> +Peter
15:10:24 <sharper> ack clay
15:10:30 <peter> Zakim, mute me
15:10:30 <Zakim> Peter should now be muted
15:10:43 <peter> q+
15:11:17 <JAllan> clayton: reinforces push down into tool stack. when innovating that ingredients are accessible
15:11:53 <JAllan> ... javascript - probably using jquery - should use the A11y tools in jquery.
15:12:31 <JAllan> ... do more work in CMS and make them more accessible and to innovate in the mobile space
15:13:19 <JAllan> ... move to innovating in content rather than appearance. what is the substance or interaction rather than appearance
15:13:22 <sharper> ack peter
15:13:23 <peter> Zakim, ack me
15:13:23 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:13:27 <yeliz> q+
15:14:06 <JAllan> peter: adding mobile to existing spec +1. but how does it happen?
15:14:26 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:14:26 <Zakim> Shadi was already muted, shadi
15:14:38 <peter> Zakim, mute me
15:14:38 <Zakim> Peter should now be muted
15:14:39 <JAllan> ... specs becoming quite long, and harder to understand. need stategies for integration
15:14:46 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
15:14:46 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
15:14:46 <sharper> ack yeli
15:14:59 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
15:14:59 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:15:32 <JAllan> sharper: recaps, future, harmonization with mobile, etc.
15:16:40 <JAllan> cooper: mobile devices expanding. devices converging. A11Y issues are combining.
15:16:52 <sharper> q?
15:17:05 <JAllan> ... indieUI - genisis in mobile but not specific to mobile.
15:17:43 <JAllan> ... tablets - touch screen, also on desktops as well as phones.
15:18:09 <JAllan> ... expanding range of devices and interfaces and interactions
15:18:58 <mhakkinen> q+
15:19:03 <JAllan> ... api for compasses, accelerometers, etc. may also move to desktop
15:19:06 <sharper> ack mark
15:19:13 <Zakim> -Peter
15:19:49 <JAllan> mark: haptic feedback on mobile. non-visual access and making information more detectable.
15:20:14 <JAllan> ... consistency of experience based on platform and form factor. need research on this.
15:20:38 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
15:20:38 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
15:20:46 <JAllan> ... find ways to map effects so the experience is equivalent across devices.
15:20:58 <clayton> haptics are likely to be very important for access to non textual content
15:21:09 <JAllan> yeliz: good to review the past.
15:21:25 <clayton> (on any device, not just mobile, to illustrate that point once more)
15:21:41 <sharper> q?
15:21:49 <JAllan> ... one issue - how to bring in developers. what will they be doing.
15:21:54 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:21:54 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:22:02 <sharper> ack mhak
15:22:12 <markel> q+
15:22:20 <sharper> ack mark
15:22:34 <peter> (ps. still following on IRC just waiting to re-join zakim)
15:23:11 <JAllan> markel: how to shorten reaction times. question of awareness - if we see it coming on some device - should anticipate that it will appear on other platforms...plan for it.
15:24:00 <JAllan> sharper: should WAI create groups based on non-a11y groups or shadow them...
15:24:00 <sharper> ack judy
15:24:45 <markel> yes, group that do vigilance work…that might work
15:24:47 <JAllan> judy: PF group does this. shadows technical working groups and comments on ~ 20 groups a year.
15:25:12 <JAllan> ... a great need for people, expertise to work on these efforts.
15:25:21 <shadi> q+
15:25:27 <clayton> involving people with disabilities in that work would be especially valuable
15:25:28 <markel> q+
15:26:14 <shadi> ack me
15:26:17 <sharper> ack shad
15:26:18 <JAllan> ... enormous in scale. looking for technology agnostics to over arch all specs
15:27:28 <JAllan> shadi: some working groups good at coming to WAI. RDWG has a role in seeing trends/developments and bringing them to groups attention
15:28:05 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:28:05 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:28:07 <JAllan> ... 3rd layer, review spec for a11y, track R&D, id issues
15:28:12 <sharper> ack mark
15:28:13 <JAllan> sharper +1
15:29:05 <sharper> ack judy
15:29:08 <JAllan> markel: need to have a methodology for quicker iterations of specs.
15:29:40 <Zakim> -sloandr
15:30:03 <MichaelC> q+ to mention community groups
15:30:25 <JAllan> judy: W3 moving more toward agile development. but 15 days with current levels of participation is a challange
15:30:52 <JAllan> ... important to get UNDERSTANDING of what is needed and how to move forward.
15:31:20 <sharper> ack michae
15:31:20 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to mention community groups
15:31:24 <JAllan> ... important to respond well, have a core understanding...less emphasis on timing
15:32:11 <JAllan> cooper: community groups is a way to start trending/explore a topic, them bubble up to more established groups
15:32:44 <markel> +1
15:32:47 <christos> +1
15:32:49 <clayton> +1
15:32:49 <yeliz> +1
15:32:51 <JAllan> sharper: Did folks find this useful? should we do this format for more Notes.
15:32:52 <mhakkinen> +1
15:32:57 <JAllan> +1
15:33:12 <shawn> +1 useful (not sure if all topics will have the same input)
15:33:15 <peter> +1 on this being useful
15:33:49 <sloandr> sorry, my skype connection dropped back there - but need to leave the call about now as I have another appointment
15:33:50 <JAllan> judy: appreciate call. might be relevant for some topics. as the group has a full plate. it is one approach.
15:33:55 <jeanne> +1 appreciated the invite for related groups.
15:34:11 <JAllan> +1 good to collaborate
15:34:58 <markel> bye!
15:35:01 <clayton> thank you!
15:35:02 <markel> markel has left #rd
15:35:04 <shadi> ack me
15:35:08 <christos> goodbye
15:35:08 <peter> bye
15:35:11 <Zakim> -Jim_Allan
15:35:12 <yeliz> bye
15:35:12 <Zakim> -mhakkinen?
15:35:12 <Zakim> -markel
15:35:13 <Zakim> -annika
15:35:13 <Zakim> -Cooper
15:35:13 <Zakim> -Clayton
15:35:14 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:35:15 <Zakim> -Judy
15:35:17 <Zakim> -Shawn
15:35:17 <Zakim> -Jeanne
15:35:18 <Zakim> -christos
15:35:21 <MichaelC> MichaelC has left #rd
15:35:26 <Zakim> -sharper
15:35:26 <JAllan> JAllan has left #rd
15:36:02 <sloandr> sloandr has left #rd
15:37:43 <markel> markel has joined #rd
15:39:22 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:39:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see yeliz
15:39:28 <shawn> zakim, drop yeliz
15:39:28 <Zakim> yeliz is being disconnected
15:39:30 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
15:39:30 <Zakim> Attendees were Jim_Allan, peter, sharper, Shawn, Shadi, sloandr, annika, +1.202.245.aaaa, Judy, christos, Clayton, markel, +1.609.734.aabb, yeliz, mhakkinen?, Jeanne, Cooper
15:39:55 <shawn> shawn has changed the topic to: 
15:39:58 <shawn> shawn has left #rd
15:47:13 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
15:47:13 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:47:13 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
15:47:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:47:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-rd-minutes.html trackbot
15:47:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:47:22 <RRSAgent> I see no action items