IRC log of dnt on 2012-12-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:45:35 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dnt
16:45:35 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:45:37 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
16:45:37 [Zakim]
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16:45:39 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
16:45:39 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
16:45:40 [trackbot]
Meeting: Tracking Protection Working Group Teleconference
16:45:40 [trackbot]
Date: 12 December 2012
16:45:51 [tlr]
Chair: pswire
16:45:55 [tlr]
Scribe: yianni
16:47:06 [tlr]
16:47:08 [tlr]
tlr has changed the topic to:
16:49:36 [johnsimpson]
johnsimpson has joined #dnt
16:50:02 [tlr]
zakim, this will be track
16:50:02 [Zakim]
ok, tlr; I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
16:50:32 [aleecia]
aleecia has joined #dnt
16:51:50 [Zakim]
T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has now started
16:51:57 [Zakim]
16:52:02 [npdoty]
npdoty has joined #dnt
16:52:29 [npdoty]
Zakim, agenda?
16:52:29 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
16:52:34 [npdoty]
Zakim, code?
16:52:34 [Zakim]
the conference code is 87225 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, npdoty
16:53:06 [tlr]
zakim, call thomas-781
16:53:06 [Zakim]
ok, tlr; the call is being made
16:53:07 [Zakim]
16:53:38 [tlr]
zakim, I am thomas
16:53:38 [Zakim]
ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas
16:53:39 [kulick]
kulick has joined #dnt
16:53:42 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
16:53:42 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
16:53:52 [aleecia]
16:54:25 [peterswire]
peterswire has joined #dnt
16:54:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.587.aaaa
16:54:58 [samsilberman]
samsilberman has joined #dnt
16:55:02 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.836.aabb
16:55:08 [tlr]
who dialed in from 202 and 408?
16:55:19 [peterswire]
peter and yianni from 202
16:55:19 [Zakim]
16:55:24 [kulick]
brad kulick, Yahoo! from 408
16:55:28 [tlr]
zakim, aaaa is PeterSwire
16:55:29 [Zakim]
+PeterSwire; got it
16:55:33 [tlr]
zakim, PeterSwire has yianni
16:55:33 [Zakim]
+yianni; got it
16:55:45 [Zakim]
16:55:51 [dwainberg]
dwainberg has joined #dnt
16:56:01 [tlr]
zakim, aabb is BradKulick
16:56:01 [Zakim]
+BradKulick; got it
16:56:05 [Zakim]
16:56:15 [tlr]
zakim, who is making noise?
16:56:21 [Zakim]
+ +49.172.147.aacc
16:56:26 [Zakim]
tlr, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: PeterSwire (53%)
16:56:34 [schunter]
Zakim, aacc is schunter
16:56:35 [jchester2]
jchester2 has joined #dnt
16:56:35 [Zakim]
+schunter; got it
16:56:39 [schunter]
16:56:41 [schunter]
16:56:44 [tlr]
ah, good
16:56:52 [schunter]
I will be in listen-only mode.
16:57:05 [dsinger__]
dsinger__ has joined #dnt
16:57:14 [Zakim]
16:57:19 [jchester2]
Zakim, mute me
16:57:20 [Zakim]
jchester2 should now be muted
16:57:33 [Zakim]
+ +1.916.212.aadd
16:57:46 [Zakim]
16:57:53 [dwainberg]
zakim, IPcaller is dwainberg
16:57:53 [Zakim]
+dwainberg; got it
16:57:55 [Zakim]
16:57:58 [dsinger__]
dsinger__ has joined #dnt
16:58:10 [jeffwilson]
jeffwilson has joined #dnt
16:58:31 [Zakim]
16:58:36 [tlr]
zakim, unmute me
16:58:37 [Zakim]
Thomas should no longer be muted
16:58:41 [JC]
JC has joined #DNT
16:58:41 [Brooks]
Brooks has joined #dnt
16:58:44 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
16:58:44 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
16:58:46 [Zakim]
16:58:48 [Zakim]
16:58:51 [tlr]
zakim, aadd is joanne
16:58:51 [Zakim]
+joanne; got it
16:58:52 [dsinger__]
zakim, mute dsinger
16:58:52 [Zakim]
dsinger should now be muted
16:59:01 [Zakim]
16:59:16 [moneill2]
Zakim, IPCaller is me
16:59:16 [Zakim]
sorry, moneill2, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCaller'
16:59:25 [eberkower]
eberkower has joined #dnt
16:59:25 [BrendanIAB]
BrendanIAB has joined #dnt
16:59:29 [tlr]
zakim, ??P51 is moneill2
16:59:29 [Zakim]
+moneill2; got it
16:59:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.658.aaee
16:59:30 [moneill2]
Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
16:59:30 [Zakim]
sorry, moneill2, I do not recognize a party named '[IPCaller]'
16:59:48 [aleecia]
Hi Peter
16:59:49 [kulick]
sounds fine
16:59:50 [Brooks]
17:00:10 [Zakim]
17:00:16 [bryan]
bryan has joined #dnt
17:00:20 [BrendanIAB]
Zakim, IPCaller is probably me
17:00:20 [Zakim]
+BrendanIAB?; got it
17:00:29 [vinay]
vinay has joined #dnt
17:00:30 [Zakim]
+ +aaff
17:00:40 [Chris_IAB]
Chris_IAB has joined #dnt
17:00:40 [dan_auerbach]
dan_auerbach has joined #dnt
17:00:42 [Zakim]
+ +1.919.388.aagg
17:00:45 [Zakim]
17:00:47 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.331.aahh - is perhaps Lmastria-DAA?
17:01:07 [Zakim]
17:01:10 [Zakim]
17:01:19 [Yianni]
Peter Swire introduction, start with 2nd item of agenda
17:01:22 [AnnaLong]
AnnaLong has joined #dnt
17:01:24 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.257.aaii
17:01:29 [Zakim]
17:01:29 [Chapell]
Chapell has joined #DNT
17:01:30 [Zakim]
17:01:30 [ifette]
ifette has joined #dnt
17:01:31 [npdoty]
scribenick: Yianni
17:01:40 [Zakim]
17:01:44 [dsinger__]
zakim, who is here?
17:01:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, Thomas (muted), PeterSwire, BradKulick, johnsimpson, samsilberman, npdoty, schunter, jchester2 (muted), joanne, dwainberg, dsinger (muted), moneill2,
17:01:46 [adrianba]
adrianba has joined #dnt
17:01:47 [Zakim]
... jeffwilson, eberkower, Brooks, +1.206.658.aaee, BrendanIAB?, +aaff, +1.919.388.aagg, vinay, Lmastria-DAA?, [Microsoft], hwest, +1.202.257.aaii, Keith_ANA, Jonathan_Mayer,
17:01:47 [Zakim]
... dan_auerbach
17:01:47 [Zakim]
PeterSwire has yianni
17:01:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ifette, Chapell, AnnaLong, dan_auerbach, Chris_IAB, vinay, bryan, BrendanIAB, eberkower, Brooks, JC, jeffwilson, dsinger__, jchester2, dwainberg, samsilberman,
17:01:48 [Zakim]
... peterswire, kulick, npdoty, aleecia, johnsimpson, Zakim, RRSAgent
17:01:55 [robsherman]
robsherman has joined #dnt
17:01:59 [Zakim]
17:02:00 [Zakim]
17:02:00 [Yianni]
If you are interested in scribing in the future, please email nick doty or peter swire
17:02:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.646.827.aajj
17:02:04 [ifette]
Zakim, google has ifette
17:02:04 [Zakim]
+ifette; got it
17:02:09 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.370.aakk
17:02:09 [AnnaLong]
zakim aagg is AnnaLong
17:02:10 [Keith]
Keith has joined #dnt
17:02:15 [Zakim]
17:02:16 [robsherman]
zakim, aakk is robsherman
17:02:17 [Zakim]
+robsherman; got it
17:02:18 [tlr]
zakim, call thomas-781
17:02:18 [Zakim]
ok, tlr; the call is being made
17:02:21 [Zakim]
17:02:23 [Zakim]
+ +1.908.239.aall
17:02:24 [tlr]
zakim, drop thomas
17:02:24 [Zakim]
Thomas is being disconnected
17:02:26 [Zakim]
17:02:26 [Zakim]
17:02:36 [Yianni]
We will start meetings promptly at 12
17:02:37 [tlr]
zakim, drop thomas
17:02:38 [Zakim]
sorry, tlr, I do not see a party named 'thomas'
17:02:42 [AnnaLong]
zakim, aagg is AnnaLong
17:02:42 [Zakim]
+AnnaLong; got it
17:02:44 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.614.aamm
17:02:53 [adrianba]
zakim, aamm is me
17:02:53 [Zakim]
+adrianba; got it
17:02:55 [aleecia_]
aleecia_ has joined #dnt
17:02:56 [tlr]
zakim, call thomas-skype
17:02:56 [Zakim]
ok, tlr; the call is being made
17:02:58 [Zakim]
17:03:05 [adrianba]
zakim, mute me
17:03:05 [Zakim]
adrianba should now be muted
17:03:10 [justin]
justin has joined #dnt
17:03:19 [tlr]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:03:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, PeterSwire, BradKulick, johnsimpson, samsilberman, npdoty, schunter, jchester2 (muted), joanne, dwainberg, dsinger (muted), moneill2, jeffwilson,
17:03:22 [pedermagee]
pedermagee has joined #dnt
17:03:22 [peter-4As]
peter-4As has joined #dnt
17:03:22 [Zakim]
... eberkower, Brooks, +1.206.658.aaee, BrendanIAB?, +aaff, AnnaLong, vinay, Lmastria-DAA?, [Microsoft], hwest, +1.202.257.aaii, Keith_ANA, Jonathan_Mayer, dan_auerbach, [Google],
17:03:22 [Zakim]
... Craig_Spiezle, +1.646.827.aajj, robsherman, +1.908.239.aall, chapell, adrianba (muted), Thomas
17:03:22 [Zakim]
PeterSwire has yianni
17:03:22 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
17:03:31 [WileyS]
WileyS has joined #dnt
17:03:48 [vincent]
vincent has joined #dnt
17:03:51 [Yianni]
Please notify nick doty in advance if you will be using a new number
17:03:54 [npdoty]
yes, feel free to contact me ahead of time, Nick Doty,
17:03:56 [Zakim]
17:03:58 [CraigSpiezle]
CraigSpiezle has joined #dnt
17:04:11 [hwest]
hwest has joined #dnt
17:04:13 [Zakim]
17:04:13 [bryan]
present+ Bryan_Sullivan
17:04:19 [robsherman]
To be clear, you're saying to notify Nick ONLY if you're not on IRC — correct?
17:04:22 [susanisrael]
susanisrael has joined #dnt
17:04:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.215.286.aann
17:04:35 [tlr]
if the following folks could please identify themselves: 1.206.658.aaee 1.202.257.aaii +1.646.827.aajj 1.908.239.aall
17:04:38 [cOlsen]
cOlsen has joined #dnt
17:04:48 [Zakim]
17:04:49 [AdamAN]
AdamAN has joined #dnt
17:04:50 [johnsimpson]
how long does the regular number stay associated?
17:05:04 [aleecia_]
until Zakim mysteriously forgets it again
17:05:05 [Yianni]
Amy (Microsoft), just email in advance if you do not have access to IRC
17:05:05 [BrendanIAB]
johnsimpson - until Zakim has memory issues
17:05:08 [Zakim]
17:05:12 [vincent]
zakim, ??P80 is vincent
17:05:12 [Zakim]
+vincent; got it
17:05:27 [Chris_IAB]
just joined via Skype
17:05:32 [johnsimpson]
i need zakim to schedule and run my life
17:05:36 [tlr]
zakim, ?P1 is probably Chris_IAB
17:05:36 [Zakim]
sorry, tlr, I do not understand your question
17:05:41 [npdoty]
Zakim, ??P91 is probably Chris_IAB
17:05:41 [Zakim]
+Chris_IAB?; got it
17:05:42 [susanisrael]
susanisrael joined from 215.286.xxxxx
17:05:43 [hwest]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
17:05:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, PeterSwire, BradKulick, johnsimpson, samsilberman, npdoty, schunter, jchester2 (muted), joanne, dwainberg, dsinger (muted), moneill2, jeffwilson,
17:05:46 [Zakim]
... eberkower, Brooks, +1.206.658.aaee, BrendanIAB?, +aaff, AnnaLong, vinay, Lmastria-DAA?, [Microsoft], hwest, +1.202.257.aaii, Keith_ANA, Jonathan_Mayer, dan_auerbach, [Google],
17:05:46 [Zakim]
... Craig_Spiezle, +1.646.827.aajj, robsherman, +1.908.239.aall, chapell, adrianba (muted), Thomas, bryan, WileyS, +1.215.286.aann, vincent, Chris_IAB?
17:05:46 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
17:05:46 [Zakim]
PeterSwire has yianni
17:05:53 [tlr]
zakim, aann is susanisrael
17:05:53 [Zakim]
+susanisrael; got it
17:06:06 [aleecia_]
Is there a reason we are not scribing this?
17:06:17 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.438.aaoo
17:06:21 [aleecia_]
(prod Nick)
17:06:25 [npdoty]
peterswire: particularly important to avoid ad hominem style attacks
17:06:35 [jchester2]
I agree with Aleecia. This should be scribed
17:06:40 [Yianni]
Disagree fervently on substance, but try not to attack each other on personal grounds
17:06:48 [justin]
Is anyone else having trouble getting on? Keep getting busy signal.
17:06:50 [aleecia_]
thank you
17:07:19 [Yianni]
Try to be constructive in tone and try to avoid personal attacks as a theme going forward
17:07:20 [AdamAN]
hi zakim, i'm 646-827-xxxx
17:07:27 [npdoty]
Zakim, aajj is AdamAN
17:07:28 [Zakim]
+AdamAN; got it
17:07:29 [Chris_IAB]
17:07:47 [Chris_IAB]
17:07:48 [tlr]
17:07:50 [robsherman]
+1 means agree
17:07:58 [aleecia_]
q+ means they wish to speak
17:07:58 [Zakim]
+ +44.772.301.aapp
17:07:58 [tlr]
17:08:06 [Zakim]
17:08:10 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.253.aaqq
17:08:14 [Zakim]
17:08:38 [Yianni]
Third item on agenda: small administrative issue, not a big change in rules
17:08:45 [philpearce]
philpearce has joined #dnt
17:09:09 [Yianni]
Concern from people that a lot of issues on compliance spec are linked together
17:09:10 [justin]
zakim, JoeHallCDT is justin
17:09:10 [Zakim]
+justin; got it
17:09:39 [Yianni]
Worry that if we have agreement on one issue it will effect another issue
17:10:11 [Yianni]
great deal of traffic on email list and on the weekly calls, and if you blink, you may waive concerns about an issue
17:10:20 [Zakim]
- +1.908.239.aall
17:10:48 [Zakim]
17:10:48 [Yianni]
For compliance spec, try to make sure there is clear notice to the group when we are planning to see consensus
17:11:05 [aleecia_]
does this mean we will have a second mailing list for official announcements?
17:11:20 [aleecia_]
Thomas, feel free to take that on IRC to save time
17:11:20 [Yianni]
we're in a discussion mode, we're are not in a point that we trying to annouce consensus on particular issues
17:11:31 [tlr]
yes, there will be an announcement list
17:11:40 [Yianni]
that time will come, but we will be clear when we are closing off issues
17:11:51 [aleecia_]
thank you. any idea when (re: announcement list)?
17:11:55 [tlr]
17:12:00 [aleecia_]
thank you kindly
17:12:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.908.239.aarr
17:12:11 [npdoty]
we're working out the exact details of that announce list, so that messages will and won't be filtered appropriately
17:12:11 [tlr]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:12:12 [Yianni]
making email list longer to state objections is not a good use of time
17:12:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, PeterSwire, BradKulick, johnsimpson, samsilberman, npdoty, schunter, jchester2 (muted), joanne, dwainberg, dsinger (muted), moneill2, jeffwilson,
17:12:13 [Zakim]
... eberkower, Brooks, +1.206.658.aaee, BrendanIAB?, +aaff, AnnaLong, vinay, Lmastria-DAA?, [Microsoft], hwest, +1.202.257.aaii, Keith_ANA, Jonathan_Mayer, dan_auerbach, [Google],
17:12:17 [Zakim]
... Craig_Spiezle, AdamAN, robsherman, chapell, adrianba (muted), Thomas, bryan, WileyS, susanisrael, vincent, Chris_IAB?, +1.703.438.aaoo, +44.772.301.aapp, cOlsen,
17:12:17 [Zakim]
... +1.202.253.aaqq, justin, David_McMillan, +1.908.239.aarr
17:12:17 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
17:12:17 [Zakim]
PeterSwire has yianni
17:12:20 [David]
David has joined #dnt
17:12:31 [Yianni]
Call for questions on phone numbers
17:12:51 [aleecia]
Justin was having trouble calling in, but seems to have resolved it
17:12:56 [Yianni]
Item number 4 on agenda: other questions and comments
17:13:09 [npdoty]
Zakim, aaee is probably amyc
17:13:09 [Zakim]
+amyc?; got it
17:13:16 [Brooks]
Brooks has joined #dnt
17:13:39 [Yianni]
an email to peter personally is appropriate if you have concerns
17:14:04 [Yianni]
Times and dates for next in person meeting: 4 Feb or 11 Feb
17:14:20 [Yianni]
more information within days, hosting on the US east coast
17:14:30 [ifette]
Does east vs west coast US actually matter?
17:14:40 [tlr]
ifette, yes
17:14:42 [aleecia]
do we know dates on Rigo's thing?
17:14:49 [Yianni]
If anyone wants to host, please contact Thomas offline
17:14:49 [tlr]
aleecia, week of 28 January
17:14:55 [aleecia]
17:14:59 [fielding]
fielding has joined #dnt
17:15:03 [tlr]
we expect to have dial-in for US participants for that one
17:15:05 [Chris_IAB]
middle of the US?
17:15:05 [ifette]
trading between Europe and US I understand, but within the US it seems… less important
17:15:13 [npdoty]
s/Times/tlr: times/
17:15:15 [Yianni]
strong perference to rotate to the east coast
17:15:25 [hwest_]
hwest_ has joined #dnt
17:15:26 [WileyS]
One argument is that east caost makes it easier for EU participation (cheaper to fly)
17:15:29 [Zakim]
+ +1.714.852.aass
17:15:37 [tlr]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:15:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, PeterSwire, BradKulick, johnsimpson, samsilberman, npdoty, schunter, jchester2 (muted), joanne, dwainberg, dsinger (muted), moneill2, jeffwilson,
17:15:39 [fielding]
zakim, aass is fielding
17:15:40 [Zakim]
... eberkower, Brooks, amyc?, BrendanIAB?, +aaff, AnnaLong, vinay, Lmastria-DAA?, [Microsoft], hwest, +1.202.257.aaii, Keith_ANA, Jonathan_Mayer, dan_auerbach, [Google],
17:15:40 [Zakim]
... Craig_Spiezle, AdamAN, robsherman, chapell, adrianba (muted), Thomas, bryan, WileyS, susanisrael, vincent, Chris_IAB?, +1.703.438.aaoo, +44.772.301.aapp, cOlsen,
17:15:40 [Zakim]
... +1.202.253.aaqq, justin, David_McMillan, +1.908.239.aarr, +1.714.852.aass
17:15:40 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
17:15:40 [Zakim]
PeterSwire has yianni
17:15:44 [Zakim]
+fielding; got it
17:15:46 [Zakim]
17:15:51 [Zakim]
17:15:57 [Yianni]
Go around the room, and ask for comments, start with letter M
17:15:58 [tlr]
zakim, Microsoft.a is probably amyc
17:15:58 [Zakim]
+amyc?; got it
17:15:59 [npdoty]
Topic: going around the room
17:16:07 [JC]
Let's use the IRC list and then go to phone with alphabet
17:16:21 [Yianni]
Tell your full name, organization you work with, your role in the organization
17:16:23 [tlr]
JC, let's not debate the order ;)
17:16:27 [dsinger]
dsinger has joined #dnt
17:16:38 [Yianni]
verbal addition to some of the points a new co-chair should hear and group should hear
17:16:44 [Zakim]
17:16:48 [Zakim]
17:16:53 [npdoty]
Present+ JC
17:16:58 [dsinger]
zakim, [apple] has dsinger
17:16:59 [Zakim]
+dsinger; got it
17:16:59 [npdoty]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:17:00 [Yianni]
First person with letter m in their handle will start
17:17:02 [npdoty]
rrsagent, pointer?
17:17:02 [RRSAgent]
17:17:14 [amyc]
amyc has joined #dnt
17:17:19 [Yianni]
Jan 22, Peter will be in Brussels for face to face meetings
17:17:24 [Zakim]
17:17:33 [laurengelman]
laurengelman has joined #dnt
17:17:34 [Yianni]
Next week on weds and thursday, peter has time to meet with people in DC
17:17:42 [laurengelman]
nick- i just joined
17:17:50 [tlr]
zakim, ??P14 is probably lauren
17:17:50 [Zakim]
+lauren?; got it
17:17:52 [Yianni]
willing to set up a skype call with all participants
17:17:55 [tlr]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:17:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, PeterSwire, BradKulick, johnsimpson, samsilberman, npdoty, schunter, jchester2 (muted), joanne, dwainberg, moneill2, jeffwilson, eberkower, Brooks,
17:17:59 [Zakim]
... BrendanIAB?, +aaff, AnnaLong, vinay, Lmastria-DAA?, [Microsoft], hwest, +1.202.257.aaii, Keith_ANA, Jonathan_Mayer, dan_auerbach, [Google], Craig_Spiezle, AdamAN, robsherman,
17:17:59 [Zakim]
... chapell, adrianba (muted), Thomas, bryan, WileyS, susanisrael, vincent, Chris_IAB?, +1.703.438.aaoo, +44.772.301.aapp, cOlsen, +1.202.253.aaqq, justin, David_McMillan,
17:17:59 [Zakim]
... +1.908.239.aarr, fielding, amyc?, [Apple], lauren?
17:17:59 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
17:17:59 [Zakim]
[Apple] has dsinger
17:18:04 [npdoty]
Zakim, lauren is laurengelman
17:18:04 [Zakim]
PeterSwire has yianni
17:18:04 [Zakim]
+laurengelman; got it
17:18:17 [Zakim]
- +1.202.257.aaii
17:18:20 [Yianni]
Peter is very willing to talk one on one or in small groups, please reach out
17:18:40 [Yianni]
if you are not part of the 27 submissions online, please state your views
17:18:41 [tlr]
if unidentified callers owuld please identify themselves on IRC: 1.202.257.aaii, 1.703.438.aaoo, 44.772.301.aapp, 1.202.253.aaqq, 1.908.239.aarr
17:19:19 [jmayer]
jmayer has joined #dnt
17:19:40 [justin]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:19:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, PeterSwire, BradKulick, johnsimpson, samsilberman, npdoty, schunter, jchester2 (muted), joanne, dwainberg, moneill2, jeffwilson, eberkower, Brooks,
17:19:44 [Zakim]
... BrendanIAB?, +aaff, AnnaLong, vinay, Lmastria-DAA?, [Microsoft], hwest, Keith_ANA, Jonathan_Mayer, dan_auerbach, [Google], Craig_Spiezle, AdamAN, robsherman, chapell, adrianba
17:19:44 [Zakim]
... (muted), Thomas, bryan, WileyS, susanisrael, vincent, Chris_IAB?, +1.703.438.aaoo, +44.772.301.aapp, cOlsen, +1.202.253.aaqq, justin, David_McMillan, +1.908.239.aarr, fielding,
17:19:44 [Zakim]
... amyc?, [Apple], laurengelman
17:19:44 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
17:19:44 [Zakim]
[Apple] has dsinger
17:19:46 [Chris_IAB]
ndoty, Lou Mastria is on the call only, dialing in from 90923946...
17:19:49 [Zakim]
PeterSwire has yianni
17:19:59 [aleecia]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:19:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aleecia, PeterSwire, BradKulick, johnsimpson, samsilberman, npdoty, schunter, jchester2 (muted), joanne, dwainberg, moneill2, jeffwilson, eberkower, Brooks,
17:20:02 [Zakim]
... BrendanIAB?, +aaff, AnnaLong, vinay, Lmastria-DAA?, [Microsoft], hwest, Keith_ANA, Jonathan_Mayer, dan_auerbach, [Google], Craig_Spiezle, AdamAN, robsherman, chapell, adrianba
17:20:02 [Zakim]
... (muted), Thomas, bryan, WileyS, susanisrael, vincent, Chris_IAB?, +1.703.438.aaoo, +44.772.301.aapp, cOlsen, +1.202.253.aaqq, justin, David_McMillan, +1.908.239.aarr, fielding,
17:20:02 [Zakim]
... amyc?, [Apple], laurengelman
17:20:02 [Zakim]
[Google] has ifette
17:20:03 [Zakim]
[Apple] has dsinger
17:20:07 [Zakim]
PeterSwire has yianni
17:20:23 [justin]
peterswire, I just emailed you the list if that helps!
17:20:33 [Zakim]
17:20:37 [Yianni]
Thomas will start someone in the middle, mike oneil
17:20:45 [Zakim]
17:20:51 [tlr]
dsigner, yup
17:21:04 [Yianni]
Mike O'Neil - software engineer, works in Cal and UK
17:21:23 [tlr]
q+ eberkower, Brooks, BrendanIAB, AnnaLong, vinay, Lmastria, Microsoft, hwest, Keith_ANA, Jonathan_Mayer, dan_auerbach, Google, Craig_Spiezle
17:21:26 [tlr]
q+ AdamAN
17:21:51 [Mike_Zaneis_IAB]
Mike_Zaneis_IAB has joined #dnt
17:21:54 [Yianni]
Sees the group as A way to control third party elements to track people
17:21:58 [tlr]
q+ robsherman, chapell, adiranba, thomas, bryan, WileyS, susanisrael, vincent, Chris_IAB, aaoo, appp, cOlsen
17:22:01 [tlr]
ack next
17:22:02 [Yianni]
more on the tech spec, but interested in both
17:22:12 [tlr]
ack eberkower
17:22:21 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.257.aatt
17:22:27 [Yianni]
Elise Berkower - Neilsen company
17:22:40 [Yianni]
sharing responsibility with an engineer Roman
17:22:45 [tlr]
q+ aaqq, jusin, David_McMillan, aarr, fileding, amyc, Apple, laurengelman, BradKulick
17:22:52 [Yianni]
His focus on the tech, Elise focus on the compiance spec
17:22:58 [tlr]
q+ aleecia
17:23:13 [Yianni]
Nielsen is market research company, has measurements product for all media
17:23:19 [tlr]
q+ johnsimpson, samsilberman, npdoty, schunter, jchester2, joanne, dwainberg
17:23:37 [Yianni]
panelist for tv rating, panelist for computer, panelist who measure smartphone and mobile devices
17:23:38 [johnsimpson]
17:23:56 [Yianni]
The whole range of consumer products is part of Neilsen
17:24:20 [Yianni]
The panels are seperate from the analytics are not done for delivering ads or targeting people
17:24:38 [Yianni]
more about measuring the internet and how the internet work, so involved with measurement products
17:24:41 [tlr]
ack next
17:24:57 [justin]
17:25:17 [Yianni]
Brooks Dobbs CPO for nnumber of entities through the NAI
17:25:18 [aleecia_]
aleecia_ has joined #dnt
17:25:22 [tlr]
ack next
17:25:26 [fielding]
17:25:26 [Yianni]
non-techie, more on the legal side
17:25:31 [johnsimpson]
17:25:33 [npdoty]
s/entities/entities in WPP/
17:25:51 [Yianni]
Brendan - emplyed with IAB, but on group an an invited expert
17:26:05 [Yianni]
web analytics since late 90s, worked with Microsoft with data collection
17:26:08 [npdoty]
s/ - emplyed/: employed/
17:26:20 [Yianni]
he is a technologist
17:26:33 [tlr]
ack next
17:26:39 [Yianni]
Brendant is out of New York
17:26:43 [npdoty]
s/he is a/... a/
17:27:07 [Yianni]
Anna Long - primary work with IBM but working as part of digitable analytics association
17:27:16 [eberkower]
Please let Nielsen know when you are coming to New York, Peter; we might be able to provide a venue for a meeting with other New York participants
17:27:25 [Yianni]
look at website activities, lead generation, and general privacy matters
17:27:43 [tlr]
ack next
17:27:52 [Yianni]
Focus more on vendor tools and proces for analytics, out of research triangle park
17:27:58 [jchester2]
17:28:01 [Zakim]
- +1.202.253.aaqq
17:28:10 [tlr]
zakim, Microsoft is probably JC
17:28:11 [Zakim]
+JC?; got it
17:28:19 [Yianni]
Adobe analytics - service provider in another of roles
17:28:28 [Yianni]
work with product team to build in support for compliance
17:28:30 [JC]
17:28:38 [tlr]
ack next
17:28:45 [Yianni]
Has a policy background, but also on tech side
17:29:23 [Yianni]
Luigi Mastria - managing director DAA
17:29:35 [Joanne]
Joanne has joined #DNT
17:29:36 [Yianni]
Come from the policy side, but knows enough tech to be dangerous
17:29:58 [tlr]
ack next
17:30:03 [Yianni]
Luigi ut of New York, happy to take to coffee
17:30:15 [CraigSpiezle]
17:30:24 [tlr]
ack next
17:30:31 [npdoty]
17:30:33 [npdoty]
ack hwest
17:30:46 [Yianni]
Heather West - editor of compliance spec
17:30:58 [jchester2]
17:31:00 [Yianni]
works in the policy department of Google
17:31:03 [kulick]
i'm still learning
17:31:07 [WileyS]
Mostly - learning about a few new folks
17:31:29 [npdoty]
most of us have met, but not quite everyone
17:31:30 [tlr]
ack next
17:31:33 [BrendanIAB]
Getting it nicely documented is handy
17:31:48 [Yianni]
Keith Scarborough ANA - fortune 500 companies
17:31:58 [Yianni]
all sorts of products and service companies, high tech to banking
17:32:10 [tlr]
ack next
17:32:12 [Yianni]
Government relations in Washington, one of the founders of DAA
17:32:20 [Zakim]
- +1.202.257.aatt
17:32:30 [Yianni]
Dan Chappy also participants at ANA, new to this process
17:32:35 [tlr]
17:32:43 [Yianni]
Jonathan Mayer - grad student at Stanford
17:32:57 [Yianni]
backgrond in public policy and computer science, also in law school
17:33:13 [Yianni]
does computer science research in web tracking, works on policy and law components
17:33:18 [Yianni]
been involved early on
17:33:20 [tlr]
ack next
17:33:31 [tlr]
zakim, Google is probably ifette
17:33:31 [Zakim]
+ifette?; got it
17:33:39 [ifette]
tlr, i already did Google has ifette
17:33:46 [Yianni]
Dan Aurbach Electronic Frontier Foundation, San Fran
17:33:47 [tlr]
ack next
17:33:56 [Yianni]
works on compliance doc, interested in protecting user privacy
17:34:03 [Zakim]
- +1.908.239.aarr
17:34:15 [tlr]
q- aarr
17:34:20 [Yianni]
Ian Fette - google, primary on crome
17:34:29 [Yianni]
more on tech spec than compliace spec
17:34:55 [ifette]
17:35:03 [Zakim]
17:35:04 [Yianni]
I've seen enough of these processes go off and not make progress, need to find where there is willingness
17:35:10 [tlr]
ack next
17:35:18 [tlr]
q+ Chris_Pedigo
17:35:22 [ChrisPedigoOPA]
ChrisPedigoOPA has joined #dnt
17:35:58 [Yianni]
Craige Beasel - Online Trust alliance - represents markets, government, and tech providers
17:36:04 [tlr]
17:36:33 [Yianni]
Think of themselves as a voice of reason, background started as technology in Microsoft
17:37:02 [tlr]
ack next
17:37:05 [Yianni]
Not an attorney, but regonizes the challenges here, long term impact on consumers and data collection
17:37:31 [Yianni]
Adam - Ap Nexis based out of New York
17:37:36 [tlr]
s/Ap Nexis/AppNexus/
17:37:53 [Yianni]
Allows companies to buy and sell online adds through real time bidding
17:38:19 [Yianni]
We have been monitoring discussion, but have not been active
17:38:22 [tlr]
ack next
17:38:40 [Yianni]
Rob Sherman - lawyer by training, privacy team at Facebook
17:38:56 [Yianni]
Help design privacy feature into Facebook and then works with policy side
17:39:16 [tlr]
ack next
17:39:21 [Yianni]
Wants to empower consumers to make choice, but still have useful services on the web
17:39:34 [adrianba]
zakim, unmute me
17:39:34 [Zakim]
adrianba should no longer be muted
17:39:53 [Yianni]
Adam - lawyers in the field
17:39:56 [tlr]
ack ad
17:40:02 [adrianba]
Adrian Bateman, Program Manager at Microsoft working on Internet Explorer
17:40:06 [tlr]
17:40:08 [tlr]
q- thomas
17:40:14 [Yianni]
Adrian Bateman - program manager at Microsoft
17:40:33 [Yianni]
Focus on anything about implementation on browser
17:40:40 [tlr]
ack bryan
17:40:47 [Yianni]
Main contact, willing to help how ever he can
17:40:48 [adrianba]
zakim, mute me
17:40:48 [Zakim]
adrianba should now be muted
17:41:13 [Yianni]
Bryan Sullivan AT&T - leads service standard team
17:41:47 [Yianni]
On service end, ad network, major buyer of advertising
17:42:18 [tlr]
ack next
17:42:19 [Yianni]
Others at at&t, works with broad range inside company: legal, operations, security
17:42:36 [Yianni]
Shane Wiley - VP of privacy and data governance at Yahoo
17:42:51 [Yianni]
NAI on board of direction, focused on both tech and compliance spec
17:42:52 [tlr]
ack susanisrael
17:43:03 [bryan]
Message I sent to the list with our input is at
17:43:09 [Yianni]
hopes to have something that is voluntarily implemented in real worl
17:43:22 [Yianni]
Susan - privacy attorney at Comcast
17:43:46 [Yianni]
Not on tech side, joined not long after group was started
17:44:17 [Yianni]
would like to see DNT to be useful, want to see that they can still distribute content and non-behavior advertising
17:44:26 [Yianni]
based out of New York but often in Washington
17:44:26 [tlr]
ack next
17:44:52 [tlr]
q- aaqq
17:44:58 [tlr]
Vincent Toubiana
17:45:12 [Yianni]
Vincent - Alcatel-Lucent
17:45:18 [tlr]
ack next
17:45:41 [Yianni]
Chris with both IAB and DAA
17:45:57 [Yianni]
IAB is a founding member of DAA, serves as technical director of DAA
17:46:11 [Yianni]
20 year career in technology, 10 in advertising
17:46:34 [Yianni]
Focused on the tech spec of DNT and how it can be implemented at scale
17:47:01 [Yianni]
Has done a lot of coding, founded two ad tech companies, ran an ad network for several years
17:47:25 [Yianni]
But reviewing code is not his speciality anymore
17:47:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.609.258.aauu
17:47:43 [tlr]
q+ aauu
17:47:44 [efelten]
Zakim, aauu is me
17:47:46 [Zakim]
+efelten; got it
17:47:50 [tlr]
q- aauu
17:47:52 [tlr]
q+ efelten
17:48:09 [tlr]
ack aaoo
17:48:16 [Yianni]
Also servced in IAB, fought through auding with MRC
17:48:29 [tlr]
zakim, aaoo is RichardWeaver
17:48:29 [Zakim]
+RichardWeaver; got it
17:48:36 [Yianni]
RIchard with Comcord - Deputy Privacy Officer
17:48:41 [tlr]
17:48:53 [Yianni]
Market reserach company, on compliance legal side
17:49:03 [tlr]
ack next
17:49:24 [tlr]
zakim, aapp is PhilPearce
17:49:24 [Zakim]
+PhilPearce; got it
17:49:25 [Chris_IAB]
Yianni, to clarify the record, I wouldn't say (and didn't say) that I "fought through auditing with MRC"
17:49:39 [Yianni]
Phil - Conversion work, involved with web analytics
17:49:49 [Yianni]
primarily concerned with the tech and implementation side
17:50:05 [Chris_IAB]
Yianni, I serve on the MRC's Digital Committee, sitting through hundreds of industry audits being considered for accreditation by the MRC
17:50:32 [Yianni]
Done a lot of work with self tracking, approaching from the EU side
17:51:05 [tlr]
ack next
17:51:20 [tlr]
zakim, colsen has petermagee
17:51:20 [Zakim]
+petermagee; got it
17:51:20 [bryan]
What was the last speaker's affiliation?
17:51:28 [Yianni]
Chris Olsen: assistance director at the Federal Trade Commission
17:51:36 [Yianni]
Peter is a senior attorney
17:52:00 [Yianni]
Both attorneys
17:52:04 [tlr]
ack next
17:52:25 [Yianni]
Justin Brokman - CDA, non-profit advoacy group in Washington DC
17:52:38 [npdoty]
17:52:38 [Yianni]
Editor of the compliance spec, primarily a legal background
17:52:42 [npdoty]
17:52:51 [Yianni]
working with tech consumer protection issues for 8 or 9 years
17:52:54 [npdoty]
17:53:02 [tlr]
q- schunter
17:53:17 [Yianni]
CDT has been workign with DNT since 2007
17:53:28 [tlr]
ack next
17:54:09 [Yianni]
David MacMillen president of capital ideas, management consulting firm
17:54:11 [bryan]
I think the speaker was Yianni from the UK, what is his affiliation?
17:54:23 [Zakim]
17:54:27 [Yianni]
concern with business strategy, strong tech background
17:54:29 [rvaneijk]
rvaneijk has joined #dnt
17:54:34 [tlr]
bryan, speaker was Phil PEarce
17:54:42 [tlr]
ack next
17:54:43 [fielding]
I am Roy T. Fielding, a Senior Principal Scientist at Adobe within the CTO organization, though most of my work is with content management (Adobe CQ5) and digital marketing. We build the tools that build large first-party Web sites. I am also a founder and director of the Apache Software Foundation (another W3C member, but I only represent Adobe here). I am a co-editor of TPE and the primary editor of HTTP and URI for the IETF. I did my PhD at UC Irvine on the
17:54:44 [fielding]
Web software architectural principles and the REST architectural style, and was on the W3C Team during the summer of 1995. I work from home (mostly) in Tustin, California. IANAL, but I've done plenty of work with lawyers as an expert witness on patents and as author of the Apache License 2.0 (an open source license).
17:55:09 [Yianni]
Roy Felding Adobe, works in CTO group, contract management side of digital marketing
17:55:19 [Yianni]
works with large first party websites
17:55:31 [bryan]
Also the last speaker, David, what is your affiliation? I'm trying to match attendees to group participation.
17:55:33 [Yianni]
20 years of web background with tech specs
17:55:52 [Yianni]
Not a lawyer, but does a lot of work with lawyers
17:55:56 [tlr]
ack amyc
17:56:16 [Yianni]
Amy - assistant general council at Microsoft
17:56:17 [npdoty]
David MacMillan, just following the calls as an individual, not currently representing an organization in the group /cc bryan
17:56:27 [Yianni]
From the legal side, but interested in both specs
17:56:56 [tlr]
ack next
17:56:59 [Yianni]
Microsoft - Sue (regulatory affiars), Euan Grant (developer and software director)
17:57:09 [Yianni]
David Singer, Apple, does tech standard for apple
17:57:10 [dsinger]
Work for Apple, based in Cupertino, doing technical standards, with my background in Multimedia, so I do MPEG, 3G multimedia, etc. as well; supported in this work by privacy experts (some of whom I think you and others know). Am also the advisory committee representative to the W3C.
17:57:15 [Yianni]
background in multi-media
17:57:29 [dsinger]
Am co-editor of the technical spec. with Roy Fielding of Adobe.
17:57:29 [Yianni]
advisory committeee rep to W3C
17:57:34 [David]
bryan - npdoty is correct - I am not representing group
17:57:45 [dsinger]
Interested in DNT as a way to find a consensus approach to privacy (unlike, e.g. blockers). I am a pragmatic centrist with a penchant for reducing tension with small jokes.
17:57:50 [bryan]
q+ to ask if we are following the policy of restricting meetings to W3C members and invited experts... there seem to be some new voices on the call that are not (AFAICT) listed on the member page
17:57:51 [Yianni]
goal of finding a consensue approach
17:57:52 [tlr]
ack next
17:58:15 [tlr]
bryan, I think we're discovering a few callers here that we need to have conversations with :)
17:58:22 [Yianni]
Lauren - lawyer, small pratice focused on privacy in San Fran
17:58:33 [tlr]
bryan, so I suggest we take this one offline
17:58:39 [Yianni]
Wants a fair, delightful result
17:59:05 [Yianni]
One spec that represents a consensus approach is the best thing that can come out of this
17:59:10 [Zakim]
17:59:16 [bryan]
we should not be discovering this adhoc, but managing it more carefully. our participation hinges on W3C process adherence
17:59:18 [Yianni]
as opposed to a technical background
17:59:20 [npdoty]
bryan, tlr, the group has agreed to allow identified callers who are not formal participants in the group on our teleconferences
17:59:30 [tlr]
ack next
17:59:45 [Yianni]
Brad - work at Yahoo with Shane, Cal campus
17:59:46 [bryan]
reference to resolution on that?
17:59:58 [rvaneijk]
rvaneijk has joined #dnt
18:00:01 [Yianni]
tech backgroud, with information security team, now with privacy and data governance team
18:00:03 [aleecia]
Aleecia M. McDonald, Director of Privacy at the Stanford Law School's Center for Internet & Society (as of last week.) Ten years in software startups prior to returning to CMU for MS policy, then PhD Engineering & Public Policy. Hybrid by design. Not a lawyer but will teach privacy law in the spring. Not an engineer but can code if I cannot find a way out of it ;-) Trying to thread four needles with one thread: business, privacy, US, EU. Can improve welfare [CUT]
18:00:03 [aleecia]
v. what we would have absent agreement.
18:00:06 [Yianni]
focused on advertising privacy
18:00:09 [tlr]
ack next
18:00:39 [Yianni]
Aleecia - software start up companies for 10 years
18:01:10 [Yianni]
How do we find a solution that works for everyone, we can reach an agreement without having to worry about anti-trust
18:01:33 [npdoty]
bryan, it might take me a little time to go back several months to find that documentation in the minutes
18:01:37 [Yianni]
Distinction that more privacy is not always better for users, users are not one group
18:01:52 [Yianni]
different users want different things, how to support users get outcomes they think they are getting
18:01:59 [Yianni]
and what they want
18:03:08 [Yianni]
Define: user - is a person, citizen (more than a consumer)
18:03:21 [Yianni]
consumer suggests a business relationship that is not always the case
18:03:37 [Yianni]
visit in corporate capacity is also a user
18:03:45 [bryan]
OK, I did not catch the resolution, and as with our earlier discussion on media access, I would have raised concerns at the time
18:04:02 [tlr]
bryan, happy to discuss further
18:04:32 [tlr]
ack next
18:04:34 [johnsimpson]
I'm John M. Simpson, director of Consumer Watchdog's Privacy Project. We're a nonpartisan, nonprofit public interest group. I'm participating the WG as an invited expert. We have been advocates for Do Not Track for several years. We sponsored SB 761 in California which would have introduced DNT regulations in the state. I was a journalist for 30 years, including executive editor of the Pacific Daily News on Guam and Deputy Editor of USA Today.
18:04:47 [Yianni]
John Simpson - director of consumer watchdog privacy project
18:04:53 [jchester2]
Zakim, unmute me
18:04:53 [Zakim]
jchester2 should no longer be muted
18:04:58 [peter-4As]
18:04:59 [Yianni]
partipates in group as a invited expert
18:05:14 [tlr]
q- bryan
18:05:17 [npdoty]
fwiw, we do define "user" in the Tracking Compliance doc,
18:05:18 [Yianni]
early advocate of DNT, support California DNT legislation, only got through judiciary comm
18:05:25 [tlr]
ack next
18:05:29 [Yianni]
Hoping to allow user's privacy preferences honored
18:06:05 [jeffwilson]
18:06:16 [Yianni]
Sam - Constant Contacts, company specilized in small businesses reaching privacy needs
18:06:48 [tlr]
ack next
18:06:49 [npdoty]
s/Sam/Sam Silberman/
18:06:52 [Yianni]
Sam Silverban
18:06:59 [tlr]
18:07:04 [aleecia]
Zakim, please mute me
18:07:04 [Zakim]
aleecia should now be muted
18:07:13 [samsilberman]
I apologize for leaving the call. I have a another meeting at 1pmET.
18:07:15 [Zakim]
18:07:24 [tlr]
ack next
18:07:29 [jchester2]
zakim, mute me
18:07:29 [Zakim]
jchester2 should now be muted
18:07:40 [Yianni]
Joanne - Truste, expertise on the policy side
18:08:01 [tlr]
ack dwainberg
18:08:02 [Yianni]
interested in both specifications, how it will impact their clients
18:08:13 [npdoty]
s/Joanne/Joanne Furtsch/
18:08:38 [Yianni]
David Wainberg - lawyer with NAI, council and senior director of technology
18:08:47 [Yianni]
Most work at intersection of law and tech
18:08:49 [tlr]
ack next
18:09:15 [Yianni]
Chris Pedigo - VP government affairs for online publishers association, trade association of 60 publishers
18:09:41 [Yianni]
Face of the internet for a lot of consumers, variety of relationships with third parties
18:10:13 [Yianni]
Mostly first parties, DNT could be useful to providing consumers more choice over 3rd party data collection
18:10:27 [tlr]
ack efelten
18:10:27 [Yianni]
Started working on policy
18:10:40 [Zakim]
18:10:42 [Yianni]
Ed Felton, prof. at Princeton in Community Science and public policy
18:10:47 [npdoty]
18:10:47 [tlr]
18:10:59 [Yianni]
does consulting on the side, previously Chief technologist of FTC
18:11:07 [Yianni]
his participation is on behalf of the FTC
18:11:40 [tlr]
ack next
18:12:05 [Yianni]
Peter Kosmala - government affairs for 4A's
18:12:18 [Yianni]
Represent a lot of companies developing digital ad campaigns
18:12:41 [tlr]
ack next
18:13:01 [Yianni]
Jeff Wilson - AOL, newcomers to the group, currently working on W3C membership
18:13:10 [tlr]
(and participating here through NAI)
18:13:13 [Yianni]
Been doing privacy for 6 years, beofre in tech roles for 10 years, works on privacy team
18:14:15 [Yianni]
Peter - Thanks to everyone for coming together on these calls
18:14:34 [Yianni]
On the email chain, there were 27 emails with priorities
18:14:59 [Yianni]
Discussing theme of the emails, Peter carefully looked at online submissions
18:15:24 [Yianni]
Some statements about importance of good procedures
18:15:36 [Yianni]
Discussions of role of tech spec versus compliance spec
18:15:52 [Yianni]
A number of people said there should be a tech but not a compliance spec
18:16:01 [Yianni]
others said we needed both tech and compliance spec
18:16:29 [Yianni]
Emphasis of DAA to only have a tech spec and quotes charter, then Jonathon Mayer quoted another part of the charter
18:16:56 [Yianni]
Chris - emphasized part of the charter focused on tech spec
18:17:32 [Yianni]
Chris - pointing out DAA position that if work would have been on tech spec the work would have already been done
18:17:55 [Yianni]
The idea of one size fits all compliance document in the world that has called the divide and bogged down the debate
18:18:09 [Yianni]
Wants to focus on tech spec to get a win
18:18:23 [Yianni]
to allow regional interpretations of technology when appropriate
18:18:38 [Yianni]
diffiult to have one size fits all (specifically between US and EUrope)
18:18:52 [Yianni]
you have Canada, South American, and other areas that we have not heard of
18:18:53 [aleecia]
How does that fit with quoting selectively from the charter, though? Did you have a point I missed,nor did you miss the rest of the charter?
18:18:58 [ifette]
effective is relative
18:19:03 [jchester2]
18:19:05 [Yianni]
W3C has been a very effective organization from tech side
18:19:09 [jchester2]
zakim, unmute me
18:19:09 [Zakim]
jchester2 should no longer be muted
18:19:11 [Zakim]
18:19:18 [npdoty]
if people are interested in the charter, you can read here:
18:19:20 [jmayer]
18:19:29 [ifette]
18:19:35 [Yianni]
Some of the other issues highlighted: how much to think about regional approach or global approach
18:19:44 [Yianni]
comments have come from both directions
18:19:56 [Yianni]
linkability and unlinkability is another area of focus
18:20:13 [jmayer]
18:20:15 [Yianni]
Series of back and forth on how to define key terms: tracking menionted the most
18:20:27 [Yianni]
some said defining was important, others said it was a distraction
18:20:32 [Chris_IAB]
also wanted to point out that we can define TECHNICAL compliance without having to define policy
18:20:59 [Yianni]
Statements today and email show substantial disagreement
18:21:04 [tlr]
18:21:26 [Yianni]
rather than try to resolve them today or say what the answers should be, should focus on areas where consensus can be found
18:21:27 [jmayer]
I didn't follow the earlier discussion—was there an answer on whether the charter is limited to only the technical specification?
18:21:43 [Yianni]
Try to build on accurate understanding of how the world is
18:21:58 [Yianni]
perhaps not having big normative decisions at this point
18:22:04 [tlr]
The charter explicitly mentions both deliverables. Reading the charter in a way that is internally consistent is preferable. ;)
18:22:26 [Zakim]
18:22:26 [Yianni]
Peter sees the challenges many people have pointed out, find relatively soon specific things to work on, rather than force consensus
18:22:30 [ifette]
18:22:44 [Yianni]
Peter wants to listen very hard at this time
18:22:49 [aleecia]
Hearing nothing, I assume there's no actual issue there (charter) but if I'm missing something, would love to hear what
18:22:59 [dsinger]
18:23:01 [johnsimpson]
18:23:06 [Chris_IAB]
18:23:23 [tlr]
ack jc
18:23:39 [Yianni]
Jeff - hope peter will resolve charter issue, needs clarity on charter
18:23:52 [Zakim]
- +aaff
18:23:57 [Yianni]
Need to do due diligence on this issue, lots of reasons why people are taking positions
18:24:15 [Yianni]
need furthur research and discussion, hope to call it as you see it
18:24:18 [aleecia]
Wait, JC is Jeff Chester? :-)
18:24:27 [jchester2]
zakim, mute me
18:24:27 [Zakim]
jchester2 should now be muted
18:24:30 [ifette]
18:24:44 [Zakim]
18:24:48 [Yianni]
Peter is just observing right now that statements are contrary
18:24:48 [tlr]
18:24:48 [jmayer]
aleecia, would prefer to not take the waiver approach. We should explicitly resolve something as important as what the charter allows.
18:25:02 [tlr]
ack next
18:25:04 [Yianni]
in legislative debates, things can look impossible right before they get solved
18:25:17 [fielding]
In voluntary standards debates, things without agreement get deleted.
18:25:20 [aleecia]
Ack Chris_IAB
18:25:33 [Yianni]
Chris - can have a compliance spec for tech only
18:25:49 [Yianni]
instead of defining policy
18:26:10 [Yianni]
W3C has in the past been technologists putting together tech specs
18:26:21 [tlr]
18:26:23 [Yianni]
With DNT, there have been a lot of lawyers added to the group
18:26:23 [jmayer]
18:26:24 [aleecia]
What would it look like to have compliance without policy?
18:26:31 [WileyS]
Yianni, I believe you can - its focus would be based on technical symantics and workflow and not mention broader policy issues.
18:26:32 [tlr]
ack next
18:26:38 [aleecia]
Genuine question
18:27:21 [Yianni]
Ian - may start a committee to research charter
18:27:42 [adrianba_]
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18:27:50 [aleecia]
18:27:50 [Yianni]
a lot of progress on spec, not so much on policy
18:27:55 [dsinger]
unsurprisingly, I think a simple centrist compliance document is possible; it won't be perfect, and won't implement much, if any, policy. but a dnt signal that has no 'common meaning' may be ... problematic
18:28:03 [ifette]
I did not say we should start a committee to research the charter
18:28:03 [Yianni]
focus should not be on what the charter says, instead where can agreement be reached
18:28:31 [Yianni]
Thomas - interpret charter in internally consistent way, charter mentions compliance spec
18:28:44 [ifette]
I said that I thought it was probably within the scope of the charter, but regardless of that, you must have agreement of the group to publish a document, and that we may or may not have that consensus and that might be a more fruitful question to discuss than charter issues
18:28:45 [jchester2]
let Jonathan speak
18:29:01 [tlr]
s/interpret charter/some folks read charter/
18:29:09 [justin]
jmayer can put it in irc, though I think I know where he was headed . . .
18:29:16 [Yianni]
Peter - call for next week
18:29:16 [Zakim]
18:29:40 [Yianni]
Do we have something to do for call next week?
18:29:45 [fielding]
+1 for vacation
18:29:46 [jmayer]
Here's what I was going to say: There are three components to the charter, 1) preference expression, 2) compliance, 3) selective blocking. For each of those components, the charter might allow or require decisions.
18:29:47 [Brooks]
with our without a compliance spec, DNT:1 seems to me to be limited in meaning to a meaning that has been noticed to a consumer
18:30:01 [npdoty]
if you have specific suggestions for compliance discussion for the call next week, follow up with Peter via email.
18:30:07 [Zakim]
18:30:11 [jmayer]
I think we have consensus that the charter allows all three. I don't think we have consensus on whether the charter requires any of the three.
18:30:22 [aleecia]
Call canceled unless other notice?
18:30:23 [WileyS]
Hopefully we'll know about the face-to-face soon...
18:30:25 [Yianni]
Call on the 26th and on the 2nd are cancelled
18:30:37 [Zakim]
18:30:40 [ifette]
jmayer, i personally agree with you there, but regardless on whether you're chartered to do something, that doesn't necessarily mean that it happens
18:30:41 [Zakim]
18:30:42 [Zakim]
18:30:42 [Zakim]
18:30:42 [johnsimpson]
Thank you
18:30:43 [Zakim]
18:30:44 [justin]
Thanks PeterSwire
18:30:44 [Zakim]
18:30:45 [Zakim]
18:30:45 [Zakim]
18:30:45 [Zakim]
18:30:46 [Zakim]
18:30:46 [Zakim]
18:30:46 [Zakim]
18:30:46 [Zakim]
18:30:46 [Zakim]
18:30:46 [Zakim]
18:30:47 [Zakim]
18:30:47 [Zakim]
18:30:47 [Zakim]
18:30:48 [Zakim]
18:30:48 [Zakim]
18:30:49 [npdoty]
thanks all
18:30:49 [Zakim]
18:30:49 [Zakim]
18:30:49 [Zakim]
18:30:51 [Zakim]
18:30:51 [Zakim]
18:30:52 [Zakim]
18:30:52 [Zakim]
18:30:52 [Zakim]
18:30:53 [Zakim]
18:30:53 [Zakim]
18:30:53 [npdoty]
Zakim, list attendees
18:30:54 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been aleecia, Thomas, +1.202.587.aaaa, +1.408.836.aabb, johnsimpson, yianni, samsilberman, BradKulick, npdoty, +49.172.147.aacc, schunter,
18:30:54 [Zakim]
... jchester2, +1.916.212.aadd, dwainberg, dsinger, jeffwilson, eberkower, joanne, Brooks, moneill2, +1.206.658.aaee, BrendanIAB?, +aaff, +1.919.388.aagg, vinay, +1.202.331.aahh,
18:30:55 [laurengelman]
18:30:58 [Zakim]
... hwest, +1.202.257.aaii, Keith_ANA, Jonathan_Mayer, dan_auerbach, Craig_Spiezle, +1.646.827.aajj, ifette, +1.202.370.aakk, robsherman, +1.908.239.aall, chapell, AnnaLong,
18:30:59 [Zakim]
... +1.425.614.aamm, adrianba, bryan, WileyS, +1.215.286.aann, vincent, Chris_IAB?, susanisrael, +1.703.438.aaoo, AdamAN, +44.772.301.aapp, +1.202.253.aaqq, justin, David_McMillan,
18:31:03 [Zakim]
... +1.908.239.aarr, amyc?, +1.714.852.aass, fielding, lauren?, laurengelman, +1.202.257.aatt, JC?, ifette?, Chris_Pedigo, +1.609.258.aauu, efelten, RichardWeaver, PhilPearce,
18:31:03 [Zakim]
... petermagee
18:31:03 [Zakim]
18:31:03 [Zakim]
18:31:03 [Zakim]
18:31:03 [Zakim]
18:31:04 [aleecia]
Ian, agree: TSLs are prime example
18:31:05 [Zakim]
18:31:12 [npdoty]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:31:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate npdoty
18:31:21 [Zakim]
18:31:31 [aleecia]
We SHOULD not MUST ship compliance :-)
18:31:34 [Zakim]
18:31:47 [Zakim]
18:31:54 [aleecia]
Daft not to... But possible
18:32:32 [Zakim]
18:32:33 [Zakim]
T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has ended
18:32:33 [Zakim]
Attendees were aleecia, Thomas, +1.202.587.aaaa, +1.408.836.aabb, johnsimpson, yianni, samsilberman, BradKulick, npdoty, +49.172.147.aacc, schunter, jchester2, +1.916.212.aadd,
18:32:33 [Zakim]
... dwainberg, dsinger, jeffwilson, eberkower, joanne, Brooks, moneill2, +1.206.658.aaee, BrendanIAB?, +aaff, +1.919.388.aagg, vinay, +1.202.331.aahh, hwest, +1.202.257.aaii,
18:32:35 [Zakim]
... Keith_ANA, Jonathan_Mayer, dan_auerbach, Craig_Spiezle, +1.646.827.aajj, ifette, +1.202.370.aakk, robsherman, +1.908.239.aall, chapell, AnnaLong, +1.425.614.aamm, adrianba,
18:32:35 [Zakim]
... bryan, WileyS, +1.215.286.aann, vincent, Chris_IAB?, susanisrael, +1.703.438.aaoo, AdamAN, +44.772.301.aapp, +1.202.253.aaqq, justin, David_McMillan, +1.908.239.aarr, amyc?,
18:32:40 [Zakim]
... +1.714.852.aass, fielding, lauren?, laurengelman, +1.202.257.aatt, JC?, ifette?, Chris_Pedigo, +1.609.258.aauu, efelten, RichardWeaver, PhilPearce, petermagee
18:33:25 [David]
David is David_MacMillan
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