14:50:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
14:50:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-irc
14:50:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:50:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
14:50:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
14:50:21 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
14:50:22 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
14:50:22 <trackbot> Date: 12 December 2012
14:54:05 <bryan> bryan has joined #dap
14:57:00 <lgombos> lgombos has joined #dap
14:57:40 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
14:57:46 <Zakim> + +1.617.225.aaaa
14:58:09 <lgombos> Zakim, aaaa is lgombos
14:58:10 <Zakim> +lgombos; got it
14:58:18 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
14:59:30 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
14:59:56 <lgombos> Present+ Laszlo_Gombos
14:59:58 <dcheng3> dcheng3 has joined #dap
15:00:19 <Zakim> +bryan
15:00:37 <dom> Zakim, code?
15:00:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), dom
15:00:52 <Zakim> + +49.173.537.aabb
15:00:55 <Milan_Patel> Milan_Patel has joined #dap
15:01:03 <dcheng3> Present+ Diana_Cheng
15:01:14 <Zakim> +??P18
15:01:17 <dcheng3> zakim, aabb is dcheng3
15:01:17 <Zakim> +dcheng3; got it
15:01:17 <dom> Zakim, ??P18 is me
15:01:18 <Zakim> +dom; got it
15:01:26 <dom> Zakim, who's on the call?
15:01:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see lgombos, Josh_Soref, bryan, dcheng3, dom
15:01:54 <Josh_Soref> scribe: Josh_Soref
15:02:01 <Zakim> +Milan_Patel
15:02:10 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:02:12 <Zakim> +Clarke
15:02:25 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:02:26 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:02:42 <fjh> fjh has joined #dap
15:02:57 <Josh_Soref> chair: dom
15:03:13 <dom> chair: fjh
15:03:17 <Josh_Soref> s/chair: dom//
15:03:37 <Zakim> +??P0
15:03:41 <AnssiK> zakim, ??P0 is me
15:03:41 <Zakim> +AnssiK; got it
15:04:06 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, mute me
15:04:06 <Zakim> Josh_Soref should now be muted
15:04:13 <Zakim> +??P4
15:04:16 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:04:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see lgombos, Josh_Soref (muted), bryan, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, ??P4
15:04:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see fjh, Milan_Patel, dcheng3, AnssiK, lgombos, bryan, Zakim, RRSAgent, richt, Josh_Soref, timeless_, slightlyoff, trackbot, tobie, dom, mounir
15:04:25 <Zakim> + +1.858.750.aacc
15:05:06 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Administrative
15:05:18 <Clarke> Clarke has joined #dap
15:05:21 <fjh> Network Information API updated draft published: http://www.w3.org/News/2012#entry-9640
15:05:30 <fjh> Proximity API Last Call publication planned for tomorrow.
15:05:55 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, where is +1858?
15:05:56 <dom> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/1CB2E0B458B211478C85E11A404A2B270185C339@008-AM1MPN1-033.mgdnok.nokia.com
15:05:57 <Zakim> North American dialing code 1.858 is California
15:06:11 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Dec/0039.html
15:06:15 <nwidell> nwidell has joined #dap
15:06:19 <fjh> Last Call of "Proximity Events" published, comments through 24 January - http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-proximity-20121206/
15:06:27 <dom> [I think we should also discuss https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/f2fQ12013/results since the questionnaire is now closed]
15:06:30 <fjh> (news announcement: http://www.w3.org/News/2012#entry-9649 )
15:06:37 <fjh> Reminder -  no teleconference 19 December, 26 December, 2 January. Next call 9 January 2013.
15:06:48 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Minutes Approval
15:06:51 <fjh> 28 November 2012 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Dec/att-0005/minutes-2012-11-28.html
15:07:02 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: Draft minutes from 28 November 2012 are approved.
15:07:07 <Josh_Soref> RESOLUTION: Draft minutes from 28 November 2012 are approved.
15:07:40 <Zakim> +nwidell
15:07:51 <Josh_Soref> fjh: let's resolve that last week's minutes are approved as well
15:07:51 <Josh_Soref> RESOLUTION: Draft minutes from 5 December 2012 are approved.
15:08:06 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Dec/0042.html
15:08:18 <Josh_Soref> Topic: XX
15:08:26 <Josh_Soref> s/XX/HTML Media Capture/
15:08:31 <Josh_Soref> fjh: we have a new updated draft
15:08:34 <gmandyam> gmandyam has joined #dap
15:08:36 <Josh_Soref> ... reflecting the capture attribute
15:08:40 <AnssiK> -> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/WD4.html
15:08:40 <Josh_Soref> ... we have an updated draft
15:08:42 <fjh> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/WD4.html
15:08:48 <Josh_Soref> ... i want to agree to publish it today
15:08:51 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: The WG agrees to publish an updated Working Draft of "HTML Media Capture" on 13 December 2012
15:09:03 <Josh_Soref> ... if we don't publish it today, we hit the moratorium which takes us into January
15:09:06 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, who is making noise?
15:09:08 <dom> +1 on updated WD
15:09:13 <AnssiK> +1 to publish
15:09:14 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: +1 to publish
15:09:17 <Zakim> Josh_Soref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P4 (62%)
15:09:27 <Josh_Soref> RESOLUTION: The WG agrees to publish an updated Working Draft of "HTML Media Capture" on 13 December 2012
15:09:34 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, ??P4 is fjh
15:09:34 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
15:09:38 <fjh> action: fjh to send publication request for HTML Media Capture
15:09:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-603 - Send publication request for HTML Media Capture [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-12-19].
15:09:48 <Josh_Soref> fjh: thanks AnssiK for your work on this
15:09:52 <Josh_Soref> Topic: F2F Planning
15:10:15 <Josh_Soref> s|http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/WD4.html||
15:10:20 <fjh> Topic: F2F planning
15:10:21 <fjh> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/f2fQ12013/results
15:10:23 <dom> -> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/f2fQ12013/results Results of survey for picking date for next F2F
15:10:29 <Josh_Soref> s|WD4.html|WD4.html HTML Media Capture|
15:10:40 <Josh_Soref> fjh: looks like Mar 4-8 is promising
15:10:51 <Josh_Soref> dom: it looks like Apr 8-12 is preferred
15:10:59 <Josh_Soref> fjh: it isn't the best for me
15:11:28 <Josh_Soref> ... is there any possibility of doing it not the #1 choice?
15:11:35 <Josh_Soref> ... there's a problem for me that week
15:11:50 <Josh_Soref> dom: Mar 4-8 is annoying to 6 people
15:11:58 <Josh_Soref> fjh: i can't meet on Friday
15:12:07 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: don't we usually only meet 3 days anyway?
15:12:16 <Josh_Soref> fjh: how many days do we meet?
15:12:20 <Josh_Soref> dom: usually 2.5
15:12:25 <Josh_Soref> fjh: could we do Mon-Wed ?
15:12:36 <Josh_Soref> fjh: i think it depends on where we're hosting?
15:12:44 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, who is on the call?
15:12:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see lgombos, Josh_Soref (muted), bryan, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, fjh, +1.858.750.aacc, nwidell
15:12:57 <Josh_Soref> Milan_Patel: do we have material for more than 2 days?
15:13:07 <Josh_Soref> fjh: why don't we plan on 2 days?
15:13:17 <Josh_Soref> dom: the problem is that people tend to leave early on the last day
15:13:20 <Josh_Soref> ... cutting time shorter
15:13:28 <Josh_Soref> fjh: i'd have to return on the Wednesday
15:13:40 <Josh_Soref> dom: let's say Apr 9-10
15:13:47 <Josh_Soref> fjh: does anyone know if they can host?
15:13:49 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:13:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see lgombos, Josh_Soref (muted), bryan, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, fjh, +1.858.750.aacc, nwidell
15:13:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see gmandyam, nwidell, fjh, Milan_Patel, dcheng3, AnssiK, lgombos, bryan, Zakim, RRSAgent, richt, Josh_Soref, timeless, slightlyoff, trackbot, tobie, dom, mounir
15:14:24 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: next F2F will be held 9-10 April 2013
15:14:37 <Josh_Soref> fjh: i'll send out a request for hosts
15:14:51 <Josh_Soref> ... i need to get back on thursday
15:14:51 <Josh_Soref> RESOLUTION: next F2F will be held 9-10 April 2013
15:14:55 <fjh> I will need to return on Thursday, so need to end Wed
15:15:03 <fjh> action: fjh to request offers of hosting
15:15:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-604 - Request offers of hosting [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-12-19].
15:15:12 <Josh_Soref> fjh: we were thinking Europe
15:15:15 <Josh_Soref> ... but it depends on who can host
15:15:27 <Josh_Soref> ... anything else on this topic? any volunteers to host?
15:15:30 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Network Information
15:15:44 <fjh> Visibility into radio status? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Dec/0012.html (Bryan)
15:16:04 <Josh_Soref> fjh: bryan, should we talk about this today?
15:16:04 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:16:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see lgombos, Josh_Soref (muted), bryan, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, fjh, +1.858.750.aacc, nwidell
15:16:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see gmandyam, nwidell, fjh, Milan_Patel, dcheng3, AnssiK, lgombos, bryan, Zakim, RRSAgent, richt, Josh_Soref, timeless, slightlyoff, trackbot, tobie, dom, mounir
15:16:07 <Josh_Soref> ... or on the list?
15:16:14 <Josh_Soref> bryan: let's carry on the list
15:16:28 <Josh_Soref> dom: i've seen this notion of being able to react to the radio state
15:16:32 <Josh_Soref> ... brought up a number of times
15:16:38 <Josh_Soref> ... it was also brought up in Web Performance
15:16:46 <Josh_Soref> ... i think it's something fairly important and useful on mobile devices
15:16:56 <Josh_Soref> ... independently of Network Information API
15:17:02 <Josh_Soref> ... i think it would be very good
15:17:12 <Josh_Soref> ... we need to know whether anyone is interested in doing something in that space
15:17:25 <Josh_Soref> ... i think there are performance and battery gains to be gained from that approach
15:17:34 <gmandyam> +q
15:17:38 <dom> s/gains/benefits/
15:17:39 <Josh_Soref> fjh: bryan, i think your message outlined the rationale
15:17:40 <nwidell> q+
15:17:45 <Josh_Soref> s/+q/q+/
15:17:51 <fjh> ack gmandyam
15:18:03 <Josh_Soref> gmandyam: i tend to agree w/ nwidell 's message
15:18:11 <Josh_Soref> ... radio state can be useful for power consumption
15:18:22 <Josh_Soref> ... i think it's less useful for connectivity/bandwidth
15:18:35 <Josh_Soref> ... taking it back to a Web Performance Workshop
15:18:44 <Josh_Soref> ... I had a paper on keep-alive for a web socket connection
15:18:58 <Josh_Soref> ... the web structure isn't designed to map well to radio connections
15:19:19 <Josh_Soref> ... mapping full radio state to the browser is probably not useful, even detrimental
15:19:28 <Josh_Soref> fjh: i was thinking of a higher level
15:19:34 <fjh> ack nwidell
15:19:44 <Josh_Soref> nwidell: i'm of similar thinking as gmandyam
15:19:49 <Josh_Soref> ... radio state
15:19:52 <Josh_Soref> ... i don't know if we can
15:19:58 <Josh_Soref> ... i think it's pretty difficult for this to work out
15:20:09 <Josh_Soref> ... this information is hard to work with/to understand
15:20:17 <Josh_Soref> ... if every web developer must understand this information
15:20:20 <Josh_Soref> ... to make use of it
15:20:27 <Josh_Soref> ... i don't know if it would be very good
15:20:32 <dom> [I think exposing it via grouping network requests or setting priority would work best, indeed]
15:20:34 <Josh_Soref> ... which is why i think it should be done by the browser
15:20:44 <Josh_Soref> ... maybe a queuing mechanism done by the browser
15:20:54 <Josh_Soref> ... but not exposing the details to the application
15:21:00 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: +1 to favor queuing
15:21:09 <Josh_Soref> fjh: we had that discussed at a F2F
15:21:19 <Josh_Soref> dom: i think it's easier to discuss concrete proposals
15:21:28 <fjh> need implementer feedback
15:21:31 <Josh_Soref> ... i agree we need something at a higher level than radio state
15:21:41 <fjh> generally +1 to higher level approach
15:21:44 <Josh_Soref> nwidell: i think it would be very good
15:21:49 <Josh_Soref> ... if we could try to figure out
15:21:54 <Josh_Soref> ... what developer problems
15:21:59 <Josh_Soref> ... what information they would like to have
15:22:06 <Josh_Soref> ... what information they'd have use for
15:22:09 <Josh_Soref> ... i tried to look into this
15:22:19 <Josh_Soref> ... it's very difficult to figure out what UCs we're trying to solve
15:22:26 <Josh_Soref> q+ to +1 nwidell 's call for UCs
15:22:36 <bryan> q+
15:22:39 <Josh_Soref> ... also to address adrianba's comment at TPAC
15:22:47 <Josh_Soref> .... big players/small players
15:22:50 <Josh_Soref> ack me
15:22:52 <Zakim> Josh_Soref, you wanted to +1 nwidell 's call for UCs
15:22:53 <fjh> ack josh_soref
15:23:17 <fjh> josh_soref: 1. need use cases
15:23:22 <Zakim> -Clarke
15:23:32 <fjh> josh_soref: 2. need facts of radio behavour
15:23:37 <Josh_Soref> s/our/iour/
15:23:40 <fjh> ack brya
15:23:51 <Josh_Soref> bryan: i think UCs are fine
15:24:03 <Josh_Soref> ... if it would help to explain the type of things we're trying to seek advantage from
15:24:10 <Josh_Soref> ... there are plenty of papers we could reference
15:24:17 <Josh_Soref> ... i suggest we continue the discussion on the list
15:24:23 <Josh_Soref> ... i don't see problems as nwidell sees
15:24:37 <Josh_Soref> ... i think we need to talk about the problem of JS libraries v. deferring behavior to the browser
15:24:44 <Josh_Soref> ... those are two different approaches
15:24:50 <Josh_Soref> fjh: i agree this should go to the list
15:24:59 <Josh_Soref> ... i think we need to work this through
15:25:04 <Josh_Soref> Topic: AOB
15:25:21 <Josh_Soref> fjh: our next call is Jan 9, 2013
15:25:39 <Josh_Soref> ... i'd like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy New Year, whatever else
15:25:47 <Josh_Soref> ... and we can use the list for anything else that comes up
15:26:04 <Josh_Soref> nwidell: has there been any update on Web Intents at all?
15:26:15 <Josh_Soref> ... there was a message from greg
15:26:17 <Josh_Soref> fjh: no
15:26:23 <Josh_Soref> ... i need to folllow up
15:26:26 <Josh_Soref> s/lll/ll/
15:26:39 <Josh_Soref> fjh: thanks everyone for their time
15:26:54 <Josh_Soref> trackbot, end meeting
15:26:54 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:26:54 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.617.225.aaaa, lgombos, Josh_Soref, bryan, +49.173.537.aabb, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, +1.858.750.aacc, nwidell, fjh
15:26:58 <Zakim> -AnssiK
15:27:00 <Zakim> -bryan
15:27:01 <Zakim> -dom
15:27:02 <Zakim> - +1.858.750.aacc
15:27:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:27:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-minutes.html trackbot
15:27:03 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
15:27:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:27:03 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-actions.rdf :
15:27:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: fjh to send publication request for HTML Media Capture [1]
15:27:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-irc#T15-09-38
15:27:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: fjh to request offers of hosting [2]
15:27:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-irc#T15-15-03
15:27:03 <Zakim> -nwidell
15:27:04 <Zakim> -fjh
15:27:04 <Zakim> -lgombos
15:27:06 <Zakim> -dcheng3
15:27:07 <Zakim> -Milan_Patel
15:27:08 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:27:08 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.225.aaaa, lgombos, Josh_Soref, bryan, +49.173.537.aabb, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, +1.858.750.aacc, nwidell, fjh