IRC log of dap on 2012-12-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:50:17 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dap
14:50:17 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-irc
14:50:19 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:50:19 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
14:50:21 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
14:50:21 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
14:50:22 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
14:50:22 [trackbot]
Date: 12 December 2012
14:54:05 [bryan]
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14:57:00 [lgombos]
lgombos has joined #dap
14:57:40 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
14:57:46 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.225.aaaa
14:58:09 [lgombos]
Zakim, aaaa is lgombos
14:58:10 [Zakim]
+lgombos; got it
14:58:18 [AnssiK]
AnssiK has joined #dap
14:59:30 [Zakim]
+Josh_Soref
14:59:56 [lgombos]
Present+ Laszlo_Gombos
14:59:58 [dcheng3]
dcheng3 has joined #dap
15:00:19 [Zakim]
+bryan
15:00:37 [dom]
Zakim, code?
15:00:37 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), dom
15:00:52 [Zakim]
+ +49.173.537.aabb
15:00:55 [Milan_Patel]
Milan_Patel has joined #dap
15:01:03 [dcheng3]
Present+ Diana_Cheng
15:01:14 [Zakim]
+??P18
15:01:17 [dcheng3]
zakim, aabb is dcheng3
15:01:17 [Zakim]
+dcheng3; got it
15:01:17 [dom]
Zakim, ??P18 is me
15:01:18 [Zakim]
+dom; got it
15:01:26 [dom]
Zakim, who's on the call?
15:01:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see lgombos, Josh_Soref, bryan, dcheng3, dom
15:01:54 [Josh_Soref]
scribe: Josh_Soref
15:02:01 [Zakim]
+Milan_Patel
15:02:10 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:02:12 [Zakim]
+Clarke
15:02:25 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:02:26 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
15:02:42 [fjh]
fjh has joined #dap
15:02:57 [Josh_Soref]
chair: dom
15:03:13 [dom]
chair: fjh
15:03:17 [Josh_Soref]
s/chair: dom//
15:03:37 [Zakim]
+??P0
15:03:41 [AnssiK]
zakim, ??P0 is me
15:03:41 [Zakim]
+AnssiK; got it
15:04:06 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, mute me
15:04:06 [Zakim]
Josh_Soref should now be muted
15:04:13 [Zakim]
+??P4
15:04:16 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
15:04:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see lgombos, Josh_Soref (muted), bryan, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, ??P4
15:04:19 [Zakim]
On IRC I see fjh, Milan_Patel, dcheng3, AnssiK, lgombos, bryan, Zakim, RRSAgent, richt, Josh_Soref, timeless_, slightlyoff, trackbot, tobie, dom, mounir
15:04:25 [Zakim]
+ +1.858.750.aacc
15:05:06 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: Administrative
15:05:18 [Clarke]
Clarke has joined #dap
15:05:21 [fjh]
Network Information API updated draft published: http://www.w3.org/News/2012#entry-9640
15:05:30 [fjh]
Proximity API Last Call publication planned for tomorrow.
15:05:55 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, where is +1858?
15:05:56 [dom]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/1CB2E0B458B211478C85E11A404A2B270185C339@008-AM1MPN1-033.mgdnok.nokia.com
15:05:57 [Zakim]
North American dialing code 1.858 is California
15:06:11 [fjh]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Dec/0039.html
15:06:15 [nwidell]
nwidell has joined #dap
15:06:19 [fjh]
Last Call of "Proximity Events" published, comments through 24 January - http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-proximity-20121206/
15:06:27 [dom]
[I think we should also discuss https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/f2fQ12013/results since the questionnaire is now closed]
15:06:30 [fjh]
(news announcement: http://www.w3.org/News/2012#entry-9649 )
15:06:37 [fjh]
Reminder - no teleconference 19 December, 26 December, 2 January. Next call 9 January 2013.
15:06:48 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: Minutes Approval
15:06:51 [fjh]
28 November 2012 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Dec/att-0005/minutes-2012-11-28.html
15:07:02 [fjh]
proposed RESOLUTION: Draft minutes from 28 November 2012 are approved.
15:07:07 [Josh_Soref]
RESOLUTION: Draft minutes from 28 November 2012 are approved.
15:07:40 [Zakim]
+nwidell
15:07:51 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: let's resolve that last week's minutes are approved as well
15:07:51 [Josh_Soref]
RESOLUTION: Draft minutes from 5 December 2012 are approved.
15:08:06 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Dec/0042.html
15:08:18 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: XX
15:08:26 [Josh_Soref]
s/XX/HTML Media Capture/
15:08:31 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: we have a new updated draft
15:08:34 [gmandyam]
gmandyam has joined #dap
15:08:36 [Josh_Soref]
... reflecting the capture attribute
15:08:40 [AnssiK]
-> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/WD4.html
15:08:40 [Josh_Soref]
... we have an updated draft
15:08:42 [fjh]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/WD4.html
15:08:48 [Josh_Soref]
... i want to agree to publish it today
15:08:51 [fjh]
proposed RESOLUTION: The WG agrees to publish an updated Working Draft of "HTML Media Capture" on 13 December 2012
15:09:03 [Josh_Soref]
... if we don't publish it today, we hit the moratorium which takes us into January
15:09:06 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, who is making noise?
15:09:08 [dom]
+1 on updated WD
15:09:13 [AnssiK]
+1 to publish
15:09:14 [Josh_Soref]
Josh_Soref: +1 to publish
15:09:17 [Zakim]
Josh_Soref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P4 (62%)
15:09:27 [Josh_Soref]
RESOLUTION: The WG agrees to publish an updated Working Draft of "HTML Media Capture" on 13 December 2012
15:09:34 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, ??P4 is fjh
15:09:34 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
15:09:38 [fjh]
action: fjh to send publication request for HTML Media Capture
15:09:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-603 - Send publication request for HTML Media Capture [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-12-19].
15:09:48 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: thanks AnssiK for your work on this
15:09:52 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: F2F Planning
15:10:15 [Josh_Soref]
s|http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/WD4.html||
15:10:20 [fjh]
Topic: F2F planning
15:10:21 [fjh]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/f2fQ12013/results
15:10:23 [dom]
-> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/f2fQ12013/results Results of survey for picking date for next F2F
15:10:29 [Josh_Soref]
s|WD4.html|WD4.html HTML Media Capture|
15:10:40 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: looks like Mar 4-8 is promising
15:10:51 [Josh_Soref]
dom: it looks like Apr 8-12 is preferred
15:10:59 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: it isn't the best for me
15:11:28 [Josh_Soref]
... is there any possibility of doing it not the #1 choice?
15:11:35 [Josh_Soref]
... there's a problem for me that week
15:11:50 [Josh_Soref]
dom: Mar 4-8 is annoying to 6 people
15:11:58 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: i can't meet on Friday
15:12:07 [Josh_Soref]
Josh_Soref: don't we usually only meet 3 days anyway?
15:12:16 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: how many days do we meet?
15:12:20 [Josh_Soref]
dom: usually 2.5
15:12:25 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: could we do Mon-Wed ?
15:12:36 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: i think it depends on where we're hosting?
15:12:44 [Josh_Soref]
Zakim, who is on the call?
15:12:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see lgombos, Josh_Soref (muted), bryan, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, fjh, +1.858.750.aacc, nwidell
15:12:57 [Josh_Soref]
Milan_Patel: do we have material for more than 2 days?
15:13:07 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: why don't we plan on 2 days?
15:13:17 [Josh_Soref]
dom: the problem is that people tend to leave early on the last day
15:13:20 [Josh_Soref]
... cutting time shorter
15:13:28 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: i'd have to return on the Wednesday
15:13:40 [Josh_Soref]
dom: let's say Apr 9-10
15:13:47 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: does anyone know if they can host?
15:13:49 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
15:13:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see lgombos, Josh_Soref (muted), bryan, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, fjh, +1.858.750.aacc, nwidell
15:13:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see gmandyam, nwidell, fjh, Milan_Patel, dcheng3, AnssiK, lgombos, bryan, Zakim, RRSAgent, richt, Josh_Soref, timeless, slightlyoff, trackbot, tobie, dom, mounir
15:14:24 [fjh]
proposed RESOLUTION: next F2F will be held 9-10 April 2013
15:14:37 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: i'll send out a request for hosts
15:14:51 [Josh_Soref]
... i need to get back on thursday
15:14:51 [Josh_Soref]
RESOLUTION: next F2F will be held 9-10 April 2013
15:14:55 [fjh]
I will need to return on Thursday, so need to end Wed
15:15:03 [fjh]
action: fjh to request offers of hosting
15:15:04 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-604 - Request offers of hosting [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-12-19].
15:15:12 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: we were thinking Europe
15:15:15 [Josh_Soref]
... but it depends on who can host
15:15:27 [Josh_Soref]
... anything else on this topic? any volunteers to host?
15:15:30 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: Network Information
15:15:44 [fjh]
Visibility into radio status? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012Dec/0012.html (Bryan)
15:16:04 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: bryan, should we talk about this today?
15:16:04 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
15:16:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see lgombos, Josh_Soref (muted), bryan, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, fjh, +1.858.750.aacc, nwidell
15:16:06 [Zakim]
On IRC I see gmandyam, nwidell, fjh, Milan_Patel, dcheng3, AnssiK, lgombos, bryan, Zakim, RRSAgent, richt, Josh_Soref, timeless, slightlyoff, trackbot, tobie, dom, mounir
15:16:07 [Josh_Soref]
... or on the list?
15:16:14 [Josh_Soref]
bryan: let's carry on the list
15:16:28 [Josh_Soref]
dom: i've seen this notion of being able to react to the radio state
15:16:32 [Josh_Soref]
... brought up a number of times
15:16:38 [Josh_Soref]
... it was also brought up in Web Performance
15:16:46 [Josh_Soref]
... i think it's something fairly important and useful on mobile devices
15:16:56 [Josh_Soref]
... independently of Network Information API
15:17:02 [Josh_Soref]
... i think it would be very good
15:17:12 [Josh_Soref]
... we need to know whether anyone is interested in doing something in that space
15:17:25 [Josh_Soref]
... i think there are performance and battery gains to be gained from that approach
15:17:34 [gmandyam]
+q
15:17:38 [dom]
s/gains/benefits/
15:17:39 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: bryan, i think your message outlined the rationale
15:17:40 [nwidell]
q+
15:17:45 [Josh_Soref]
s/+q/q+/
15:17:51 [fjh]
ack gmandyam
15:18:03 [Josh_Soref]
gmandyam: i tend to agree w/ nwidell 's message
15:18:11 [Josh_Soref]
... radio state can be useful for power consumption
15:18:22 [Josh_Soref]
... i think it's less useful for connectivity/bandwidth
15:18:35 [Josh_Soref]
... taking it back to a Web Performance Workshop
15:18:44 [Josh_Soref]
... I had a paper on keep-alive for a web socket connection
15:18:58 [Josh_Soref]
... the web structure isn't designed to map well to radio connections
15:19:19 [Josh_Soref]
... mapping full radio state to the browser is probably not useful, even detrimental
15:19:28 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: i was thinking of a higher level
15:19:34 [fjh]
ack nwidell
15:19:44 [Josh_Soref]
nwidell: i'm of similar thinking as gmandyam
15:19:49 [Josh_Soref]
... radio state
15:19:52 [Josh_Soref]
... i don't know if we can
15:19:58 [Josh_Soref]
... i think it's pretty difficult for this to work out
15:20:09 [Josh_Soref]
... this information is hard to work with/to understand
15:20:17 [Josh_Soref]
... if every web developer must understand this information
15:20:20 [Josh_Soref]
... to make use of it
15:20:27 [Josh_Soref]
... i don't know if it would be very good
15:20:32 [dom]
[I think exposing it via grouping network requests or setting priority would work best, indeed]
15:20:34 [Josh_Soref]
... which is why i think it should be done by the browser
15:20:44 [Josh_Soref]
... maybe a queuing mechanism done by the browser
15:20:54 [Josh_Soref]
... but not exposing the details to the application
15:21:00 [Josh_Soref]
Josh_Soref: +1 to favor queuing
15:21:09 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: we had that discussed at a F2F
15:21:19 [Josh_Soref]
dom: i think it's easier to discuss concrete proposals
15:21:28 [fjh]
need implementer feedback
15:21:31 [Josh_Soref]
... i agree we need something at a higher level than radio state
15:21:41 [fjh]
generally +1 to higher level approach
15:21:44 [Josh_Soref]
nwidell: i think it would be very good
15:21:49 [Josh_Soref]
... if we could try to figure out
15:21:54 [Josh_Soref]
... what developer problems
15:21:59 [Josh_Soref]
... what information they would like to have
15:22:06 [Josh_Soref]
... what information they'd have use for
15:22:09 [Josh_Soref]
... i tried to look into this
15:22:19 [Josh_Soref]
... it's very difficult to figure out what UCs we're trying to solve
15:22:26 [Josh_Soref]
q+ to +1 nwidell 's call for UCs
15:22:36 [bryan]
q+
15:22:39 [Josh_Soref]
... also to address adrianba's comment at TPAC
15:22:47 [Josh_Soref]
.... big players/small players
15:22:50 [Josh_Soref]
ack me
15:22:52 [Zakim]
Josh_Soref, you wanted to +1 nwidell 's call for UCs
15:22:53 [fjh]
ack josh_soref
15:23:17 [fjh]
josh_soref: 1. need use cases
15:23:22 [Zakim]
-Clarke
15:23:32 [fjh]
josh_soref: 2. need facts of radio behavour
15:23:37 [Josh_Soref]
s/our/iour/
15:23:40 [fjh]
ack brya
15:23:51 [Josh_Soref]
bryan: i think UCs are fine
15:24:03 [Josh_Soref]
... if it would help to explain the type of things we're trying to seek advantage from
15:24:10 [Josh_Soref]
... there are plenty of papers we could reference
15:24:17 [Josh_Soref]
... i suggest we continue the discussion on the list
15:24:23 [Josh_Soref]
... i don't see problems as nwidell sees
15:24:37 [Josh_Soref]
... i think we need to talk about the problem of JS libraries v. deferring behavior to the browser
15:24:44 [Josh_Soref]
... those are two different approaches
15:24:50 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: i agree this should go to the list
15:24:59 [Josh_Soref]
... i think we need to work this through
15:25:04 [Josh_Soref]
Topic: AOB
15:25:21 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: our next call is Jan 9, 2013
15:25:39 [Josh_Soref]
... i'd like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy New Year, whatever else
15:25:47 [Josh_Soref]
... and we can use the list for anything else that comes up
15:26:04 [Josh_Soref]
nwidell: has there been any update on Web Intents at all?
15:26:15 [Josh_Soref]
... there was a message from greg
15:26:17 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: no
15:26:23 [Josh_Soref]
... i need to folllow up
15:26:26 [Josh_Soref]
s/lll/ll/
15:26:39 [Josh_Soref]
fjh: thanks everyone for their time
15:26:54 [Josh_Soref]
trackbot, end meeting
15:26:54 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
15:26:54 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.617.225.aaaa, lgombos, Josh_Soref, bryan, +49.173.537.aabb, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, +1.858.750.aacc, nwidell, fjh
15:26:58 [Zakim]
-AnssiK
15:27:00 [Zakim]
-bryan
15:27:01 [Zakim]
-dom
15:27:02 [Zakim]
- +1.858.750.aacc
15:27:02 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:27:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-minutes.html trackbot
15:27:03 [Zakim]
-Josh_Soref
15:27:03 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
15:27:03 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-actions.rdf :
15:27:03 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: fjh to send publication request for HTML Media Capture [1]
15:27:03 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-irc#T15-09-38
15:27:03 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: fjh to request offers of hosting [2]
15:27:03 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/12-dap-irc#T15-15-03
15:27:03 [Zakim]
-nwidell
15:27:04 [Zakim]
-fjh
15:27:04 [Zakim]
-lgombos
15:27:06 [Zakim]
-dcheng3
15:27:07 [Zakim]
-Milan_Patel
15:27:08 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:27:08 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.617.225.aaaa, lgombos, Josh_Soref, bryan, +49.173.537.aabb, dcheng3, dom, Milan_Patel, Clarke, AnssiK, +1.858.750.aacc, nwidell, fjh