15:59:46 RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents 15:59:46 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/11-pointerevents-irc 15:59:48 RRSAgent, make logs 231 15:59:48 Zakim has joined #pointerevents 15:59:50 Zakim, this will be 7394 15:59:51 Meeting: Pointer Events Working Group Teleconference 15:59:51 Date: 11 December 2012 15:59:52 ok, trackbot; I see RWC_PEWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute 16:00:02 RWC_PEWG()11:00AM has now started 16:00:10 + +1.770.402.aaaa 16:01:01 +[Microsoft] 16:01:16 +Doug_Schepers 16:01:21 + +1.717.578.aabb 16:01:37 Zakim, aabb is me 16:01:37 +scott_gonzalez; got it 16:02:39 Zakim, aaaa is jrossi 16:02:39 +jrossi; got it 16:03:07 +[Google] 16:03:48 rbyers_ has joined #pointerevents 16:03:53 jrossi2 has joined #pointerevents 16:03:55 Zakim, Google is rbyers 16:03:55 +rbyers; got it 16:04:29 present+ jrossi2 16:04:48 Zakim, aaaa is jrossi2 16:04:48 sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 16:05:05 Zakim, +1.717.578.aabb is jrossi2 16:05:05 sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+1.717.578.aabb' 16:05:48 Zakim, who's here? 16:05:48 On the phone I see jrossi, [Microsoft], Doug_Schepers, scott_gonzalez, rbyers 16:05:51 On IRC I see jrossi2, rbyers_, Zakim, RRSAgent, mbrubeck, scott_gonzalez, smaug, rbyers, trackbot, shepazu 16:06:17 uh 16:06:18 oops 16:06:34 in a minute 16:06:41 scribeNick:jrossi2 16:07:43 topic: Agenda Bashing 16:07:51 asir has joined #pointerevents 16:07:54 Zakim: nick smaug is Olli_Pettay 16:08:03 Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay 16:08:03 sorry, smaug, I do not see a party named 'Olli_Pettay' 16:08:44 +[IPcaller] 16:09:03 Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay 16:09:03 +Olli_Pettay; got it 16:09:04 Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay 16:09:04 ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay 16:09:39 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2012OctDec/0106.html 16:10:21 topic: Bug 20219 16:10:22 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20219 16:10:26 Issue-20219? 16:10:26 ISSUE-20219 does not exist 16:10:42 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20219 16:12:01 jrossi: 2 issues, one is should the pointerType be a string instead of constants? 16:12:16 jrossi: for this, allows cleaner syntax 16:12:25 jrossi: pointerType=="touch" 16:12:45 jrossi: as opposed to event.pointerType==event.POINTER_TYPE_TOUCH 16:12:56 jrossi: but main reason is extensibility 16:14:33 jrossi2: what's the right spec text for UA extensibility? 16:14:47 jrossi2: e.g. a UA supports a pointing device that's not touch, pen, mosue 16:14:58 rbyers: is there a precedent for defining extensibility? 16:15:06 jrossi2: D3Events says prefix events 16:15:42 shepazu: a bit of advice is at least useful, but let's save the conversation for the list 16:15:52 rbyers: if D3Events has existing text, just lean on that 16:16:09 1) should be a string 16:16:19 shepazu: separate into 2 issues 16:16:36 http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-xmlhttprequest 16:16:47 smaug: lately, specs have been using string enums 16:17:14 jrossi: yeah, there's an element to this that's current spec convention 16:17:29 shepazu: proposed resolution to part 1 of the issue, I propose it be a string 16:17:44 rbyers: answer is clearly a string 16:18:06 RESOLUTION: Change pointerType property to String 16:18:46 shepazu: second issue, rather than discuss, let's save it for the list 16:18:51 jrossi: sounds good 16:19:10 action: jrossi to send proposal for extensible text to list 16:19:10 Sorry, couldn't find jrossi. You can review and register nicknames at . 16:21:03 smaug: one clarification, should be enumerated string possibilities in spec that UAs can add to if they want 16:21:12 rbyers: agree, that provides best clarity 16:21:15 jrossi2: agreed 16:21:49 smaug pointed to this specific example: http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-xmlhttprequest 16:22:23 jrossi2: well, i'd want to let authors create synthetic event's with arbitrary string for pointerType 16:23:06 jrossi2: for polyfils 16:23:40 smaug: then it probably needs to just be a plain string 16:23:59 jrossi2: how about a table that just says normative values for touch, pen, mouse? 16:24:06 rbyers: that seems fine 16:24:11 smaug: yes 16:24:29 topic: bug 20281 16:24:38 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20218 16:25:03 jrossi: this is practically a bug 16:25:25 "Extend pointer events to support raw trackpad data" 16:26:09 This summary of different co-ordinate spaces may be helpful for discussion: http://trac.webkit.org/wiki/ScalesAndZooms 16:26:27 jrossi: suggest this be in document pixels 16:27:14 rbyers: definitely not device pixels, not sure about zoom 16:27:46 rbyers: logical pixels, devicePixels * devicePixelRatio 16:27:58 s/"Extend pointer events to support raw trackpad data"/"Contact geometry should be in CSS pixels not device pixels" 16:28:13 jrossi: there's 2 use cases 16:28:24 jrossi: 1- knowing how big the finger is 16:28:36 jrossi2: 2- seeing how the element compares to the layout of the page 16:29:22 rbyers: 2 seems the most likely 16:29:30 jrossi2: IE10 provides zoom factor, which would allow conversion 16:29:36 jrossi: agree 2 is most common 16:30:28 jrossi: proposed resolution is to make width/height be CSS document pixels, adjusted for zoom 16:30:43 shepazu: talked about issue of transforms in D3Events 16:31:58 shepazu: authors get back odd coord sys 16:32:24 jrossi2: yes, but I think optical zoom isn't as much as of problem because the elements don't actually change coord sys 16:34:58 rbyers: is this going to be a compat issue? 16:35:20 jrossi2: concerned in general about dramatically changing things, but not too much for this particular property 16:40:23 (walled gardens shouldn't be considered when designing APIs for the Web. But of course it is better to try to achieve compatibility with all the systems.) 16:42:54 jrossi: proposed resolution is to make width/height be CSS document pixels, adjusted for zoom 16:42:58 agreed 16:43:06 looks right 16:43:14 RESOLUTION:make width/height be CSS document pixels, adjusted for zoom 16:43:41 topic: 20311 Clarify touch-action is only looked at during pointerdown 16:45:15 jrossi: need to clarify this so that implementations can implement multi-threaded scrolling 16:45:21 rbyers: agree, we should clarify 16:45:47 jrossi: proposed change is that touch-action is checked prior to firing pointerdown and then that value is used for the lifetime of that pointer 16:45:58 agreed 16:46:09 RESOLUTION: clarify touch-action is checked prior to firing pointerdown and then that value is used for the lifetime of that pointer 16:56:05 dfreedm has joined #pointerevents 16:56:29 -Olli_Pettay 16:56:36 hmm 16:56:56 +[IPcaller] 16:56:58 back 16:57:03 Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay 16:57:03 +Olli_Pettay; got it 16:59:54 -[Microsoft] 17:00:47 the bridge dropped me 17:00:54 and am unable to dial back in 17:03:54 rbyers_ has joined #pointerevents 17:04:13 -Olli_Pettay 17:04:15 -rbyers 17:04:17 -Doug_Schepers 17:04:18 -jrossi 17:04:20 RWC_PEWG()11:00AM has ended 17:04:20 Attendees were +1.770.402.aaaa, [Microsoft], Doug_Schepers, +1.717.578.aabb, scott_gonzalez, jrossi, rbyers, Olli_Pettay 17:05:03 rbyers_ has left #pointerevents 17:22:54 abarsto has joined #pointerevents 17:39:46 RRSAgent, log? 17:39:46 I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'log' 17:39:54 RRSAgent, make minutes 17:39:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/11-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB 17:40:12 RRSAgent, make log Public 17:56:59 sorry I missed the call. jrossi2 - do you want me to send the mins to the list? 19:00:29 Zakim has left #pointerevents