16:52:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #privacy
16:52:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-irc
16:52:31 <npdoty> Meeting: Privacy Interest Group teleconference
16:54:43 <Zakim> Team_(privacy)17:00Z has now started
16:54:43 <christine> christine has joined #privacy
16:54:51 <Zakim> + +358.504.87aaaa
16:54:58 <Zakim> + +1.415.920.aabb
16:55:10 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:55:17 <fjh> zakim, code?
16:55:17 <Zakim> the conference code is 7464 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh
16:55:21 <tara> tara has joined #privacy
16:55:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:55:39 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
16:55:39 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
16:55:50 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
16:55:55 <christine> Zakim, I am +[IPcaller]
16:55:55 <Zakim> sorry, christine, I do not see a party named '+[IPcaller]'
16:56:28 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
16:56:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see +358.504.87aaaa, +1.415.920.aabb, [IPcaller], fjh
16:56:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see tara, christine, RRSAgent, mikeperry, Zakim, npdoty, fjh, Karima, rigo, MacTed, wseltzer_transit
16:56:30 <rigo> christine, looks like frederick stole your line
16:56:38 <rigo> kind of identity theft
16:56:43 <fjh> zakim, IPcaller is christine
16:56:45 <Zakim> +christine; got it
16:56:47 <Zakim> + +49.296.aacc
16:56:47 <christine> So what do I do?
16:57:11 <christine> Thanks Frederick
16:57:22 <rigo> fjh, are you in 415 area?
16:57:47 <rigo> ah :)
16:57:47 <fjh> zakim, where is 415?
16:57:47 <Zakim> North American dialing code 1.415 is California
16:57:55 <christine> Waiting for the hour and for scribe to arrive
16:58:21 <christine> Agenda:
16:58:29 <christine> 1. Welcome and introductions.
16:58:31 <Zakim> +Rigo
16:58:40 <christine> 2. Report out from the TPAC breakout session: Is fingerprinting a lost cause? and skeleton draft (Nick)
16:58:48 <christine> 3. Report out from the TPAC DAP WG meeting and privacy (Frederick/Rigo/Christine)
16:58:57 <christine> 4. Report out from the Do Not Track and Beyond workshop (Brad/Nick)
16:59:04 <christine> 5. Update regarding CSP privacy issues (Trent)
16:59:16 <christine> 6. Upcoming privacy reviews: - Proximity API (Frederick) - others?
16:59:16 <tara> Not sure if 415 is me - that's my area code but not the number at this desk...
16:59:27 <christine> 7. Privacy considerations (Nick/Frank)
16:59:34 <christine> 8. AOB
16:59:43 <rigo> zakim, mute me
16:59:43 <Zakim> Rigo should now be muted
16:59:45 <Zakim> + +1.347.570.aadd
16:59:51 <christine> (As you see I need lessons in IRC and Zakim)
17:00:23 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #privacy
17:01:00 <Zakim> +npdoty
17:01:34 <npdoty> Zakim, who is on the phone?
17:01:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see +358.504.87aaaa, +1.415.920.aabb, christine, fjh, +49.296.aacc, Rigo (muted), +1.347.570.aadd, npdoty
17:01:36 <Zakim> + +1.508.380.aaee
17:02:01 <christine> New person: Zuiderveen Borgesius, Frederik
17:02:07 <Frederik> Frederik has joined #privacy
17:02:18 <npdoty> welcome, Frederik
17:02:22 <npdoty> welcome back, fjh
17:02:23 <MacTed> Zakim, code?
17:02:23 <Zakim> the conference code is 7464 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), MacTed
17:02:27 <tara> Welcome and hello!
17:02:28 <fjh> Hi, I'm Frederick Hirsch from Nokia, charing Device APIs (DAP) and XML Security. Have been active in W3C privacy workshops in the past. Interested in applying to DAP.
17:02:33 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
17:02:34 <fjh> s/Frederik/Frederick/g
17:02:39 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
17:02:39 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
17:02:41 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
17:02:41 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
17:03:06 <jtrentadams> jtrentadams has joined #privacy
17:03:12 <christine> Agenda item 2 - report out from TPAC - Is fingerprinting a lost cause?
17:03:12 <Frederik> hi, Frederik here http://www.ivir.nl/staff/borgesius.html
17:03:28 <christine> Report provided by Nick
17:03:33 <Zakim> +??P31
17:03:48 <Zakim> +[CDT]
17:03:50 <MacTed> MacTed has changed the topic to: Privacy IG - http://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy - current agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0205.html
17:03:51 <fjh> s/Borgesius, Frederick/Borgesius, Frederik/
17:04:00 <christine> To discuss suggestions that fingerprinting might be too difficult to deal with
17:04:16 <AshokMalhotra> AshokMalhotra has joined #privacy
17:04:25 <fjh> s/welcome, Frederick/welcome, Frederik/
17:04:28 <JoeHallCDT> JoeHallCDT has joined #privacy
17:04:31 <christine> e.g. with respect to APIs
17:04:32 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:04:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-minutes.html fjh
17:04:46 <christine> to Rigo: please could you record attendance?
17:04:56 <tara> http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-fingerprint-minutes.html
17:05:01 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
17:05:19 <jtrentadams> zakim, who is here
17:05:19 <Zakim> jtrentadams, you need to end that query with '?'
17:05:28 <jtrentadams> zakim, who is here?
17:05:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see +358.504.87aaaa, +1.415.920.aabb, christine, fjh, +49.296.aacc, Rigo (muted), +1.347.570.aadd, npdoty, +1.508.380.aaee, MacTed (muted), ??P31, [CDT],
17:05:32 <Zakim> ... Ashok_Malhotra
17:05:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see JoeHallCDT, AshokMalhotra, jtrentadams, Frederik, MacTed, tara, christine, RRSAgent, mikeperry, Zakim, npdoty, fjh, Karima, rigo, wseltzer_transit
17:05:42 <fjh> i/To discuss/Topic: Fingerprinting/
17:06:00 <christine> Different threat models - can we prevent passive fingerprinting; can we produce a common brower profile with reduced functionality
17:06:12 <robin> robin has joined #privacy
17:06:13 <tara> zakim, aabb is me
17:06:13 <Zakim> +tara; got it
17:06:23 <christine> Trade-offs when developing a new API
17:06:31 <jtrentadams> Zakim, jtrentadams is aaee
17:06:31 <Zakim> sorry, jtrentadams, I do not recognize a party named 'jtrentadams'
17:06:43 <MacTed> Zakim, aaee is jtrentadams
17:06:43 <Zakim> +jtrentadams; got it
17:06:54 <christine> Consensus - you should not do nothing - balancing considerations - WGs considering when develping APIs
17:07:05 <MacTed> (Administrivia: updates to the upcoming meeting schedule [and past minutes] in the wiki would be a goodness. I can fix some of the past, but look there myself to learn about the future...)
17:07:14 <JoeHallCDT> Zakim, [CDT] is JoeHallCDT
17:07:14 <Zakim> +JoeHallCDT; got it
17:07:27 <christine> Handing over scribe duties to Robin
17:07:52 <christine> Nick talking about the skeleton draft (see email thread)
17:08:12 <christine> Looking for feedback
17:08:15 <christine> Q+
17:08:30 <rigo> ack christine
17:08:58 <npdoty> this was my skeleton draft: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0204.html
17:09:23 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
17:09:31 <christine> A very useful document. Let's put it in a collaborative space and start fleshing it out.
17:09:38 <fjh> wiki sounds simpler to start
17:09:39 <Karima> +q
17:09:41 <npdoty> wiki or github? what would make others most likely to help?
17:09:54 <npdoty> ack Karima
17:09:56 <fjh> q+
17:10:36 <JC> JC has joined #PRIVACY
17:10:40 <Karima> ok
17:11:21 <npdoty> "the most secure system is a brick"
17:11:40 <christine> [All Robin is experiencing technical issues - could someone else volunteer to take over scribing]
17:11:47 <npdoty> fjh: call out the tradeoff between functionality and fingerprinting risk at the very outset
17:12:03 <tara> I can!
17:12:12 <npdoty> scribenick: tara
17:12:16 <JC> Isn't there a difference between passive and active fingerprinting?
17:12:29 <fjh> summary http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0212.html
17:12:34 <npdoty> JC, yes, definitely, that's one of the differences I wanted to highlight in this document
17:12:43 <christine> Agenda item 3
17:12:47 <fjh> i/summary/Topic: DAP F2F summary/
17:12:53 <tara> Frederick & Rigo: update on DAP
17:13:00 <npdoty> ... because I think we'll give different guidance on passive vs. active new fingerprinting surface
17:13:31 <tara> Came up with thoughts: informative material would be helpful.
17:14:22 <rwilton> rwilton has joined #privacy
17:14:32 <rigo> ack ri
17:14:42 <fjh> q-
17:14:47 <rwilton> rwilton has left #privacy
17:14:54 <tara> Details are in email that was circulated. (Not scribed here.)
17:15:26 <fjh> see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0212.html
17:15:28 <npdoty> q+
17:15:49 <tara> Participants were worried about privacy concerns (e.g., around debugging) and what limits this might cause.
17:16:02 <Zakim> +bblfish
17:16:08 <tara> Were able to reassure them that an effective solution could be found.
17:17:08 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #privacy
17:17:11 <bblfish> hi
17:17:15 <npdoty> christine: really was a case of the device api group asking for help with concerns
17:17:15 <rigo> zakim, mute me
17:17:16 <Zakim> Rigo should now be muted
17:17:17 <fjh> thank you for joining DAP for that session
17:17:24 <bblfish> q?
17:17:34 <bblfish> sorry for being late.
17:17:38 <bblfish> q+
17:17:53 <fjh> q+
17:18:05 <rigo> ack npdoty
17:18:25 <JoeHallCDT> \me doesn't think Tara is actually scribing, no?
17:18:40 <robin> I may be able to take over now...
17:18:53 <robin> Apologies for my poor IRC skillz :^(
17:19:07 <tara> (We seem to be handing off various parts - but go ahead Robin!)
17:19:08 <bblfish> bblfish is Henry Story, http://webid.info/
17:19:09 <rigo> christine, bblfish is Henry Story
17:19:21 <npdoty> scribenick: robin
17:19:21 <rigo> ack fjh
17:19:31 <robin> OK - apologies in advance if I don't recognise voices
17:19:39 <npdoty> npdoty: to take a more skeptical view, were we coming in too late?
17:19:46 <robin> Now's a good time to reintroduce the privacy topic
17:19:47 <rigo> this is fjh
17:20:03 <npdoty> ... have occasionally heard pushback when privacy people come in with feedback too late in the process
17:20:11 <fjh> q?
17:20:16 <rigo> robin, just type ??: if you don't understand who is talking
17:20:29 <npdoty> Web Intents vs. Web Activities, yeah?
17:20:45 <robin> fjh looking to combine WebIntense work (Google) and Mozilla WebActivities work
17:20:54 <robin> *WebIntents
17:21:01 <npdoty> s/WebIntense/Web Intents/
17:21:11 <npdoty> ack bblfish
17:21:18 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
17:21:29 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: christine (4%), +1.347.570.aadd (3%), Ashok_Malhotra (4%), [Microsoft] (7%), bblfish (25%)
17:21:37 <robin> bblfish to speak under AOB
17:22:06 <npdoty> rrsagent, pointer?
17:22:06 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-irc#T17-22-06
17:22:38 <robin> hannes: question for FJH: what's the best way to bring new joiners up to speed with the privacy issues, deployment models etc?
17:22:42 <npdoty> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:22:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-minutes.html npdoty
17:22:56 <npdoty> rrsagent, make logs public
17:23:33 <npdoty> all the important stuff (nec'y for the security/privacy review) is hidden behind tons of details -- interesting point
17:23:42 <fjh> http://webintents.org/
17:24:01 <robin> Is there a high-level write-up that would help people get the essentials from a welter of details about Web Intents and Web  Activities?
17:24:28 <jtrentadams> zakim, who is here?
17:24:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see +358.504.87aaaa, tara, christine, fjh, +49.296.aacc, Rigo (muted), +1.347.570.aadd, npdoty, jtrentadams, MacTed (muted), ??P31, JoeHallCDT, Ashok_Malhotra,
17:24:28 <robin> hannes to send a link to a similar write-up as a model
17:24:32 <Zakim> ... [Microsoft], bblfish
17:24:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see bblfish, JC, robin, JoeHallCDT, AshokMalhotra, jtrentadams, Frederik, MacTed, tara, christine, RRSAgent, mikeperry, Zakim, npdoty, fjh, Karima, rigo, wseltzer_transit
17:24:59 <robin> Agenda Item 5 - report from the Beyond DNT workshop (last week); npdoty to report
17:25:25 <robin> UC Berkeley hosted the event
17:25:47 <robin> What should W3C focus on on the wake of existing DNT work?
17:25:49 <JoeHallCDT> It was great!
17:26:02 <robin> 2-3 bullets:
17:26:44 <robin> 1 - how much should W3C standards address the "policy" space? (and how much do they already?)
17:27:20 <robin> discussion revealed that there's generally some policy content, even if it's not explicit/understood
17:27:28 <robin> 2 - DNT
17:27:56 <robin> User studies and economic arguments were also intersting; summary/minutes to be published along with a brief report
17:28:02 <robin> *interesting
17:28:09 <Frederik> [ 1.347.570.aadd is me, Frederik by the way ]
17:28:15 <robin> User education is still not well addressed...
17:28:21 <rigo> Nick Doty is talking
17:28:42 <robin> 3 - Future work:
17:29:11 <robin> Privacy specification assesssment - Frank Dawson
17:29:22 <JoeHallCDT> Zakim, +1.347.570.aadd is Frederik
17:29:22 <Zakim> +Frederik; got it
17:29:29 <robin> new privacy technologies; privacy icons, standardised short notice...
17:29:44 <JoeHallCDT> yeah, the "resurrection" so to speak of p3p was fascinating
17:30:10 <JoeHallCDT> q+
17:30:28 <fjh> q+
17:30:52 <rigo> ack JoeHallCDT
17:31:37 <robin> JoeHallCDT: P3P discussion was fascinating... often written off, but actually a lot of the work is still 'not stale'
17:31:54 <fjh> privacy rulesets work might be relevant to  future work discussions related to P3P, http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/privacy-rulesets/
17:32:28 <robin> JoeHallCDT: definitelyopportunities to learn from the successes that were in P3P's work...
17:32:30 <npdoty> vocabulary and ontology very thoughtful and perhaps still useful
17:32:56 <fjh> q-
17:33:01 <robin> Frederik: Contributed pointer to privacy rulesets work as a possible asset
17:33:02 <rigo> fjh, please note DSR and my paper that addresses http://www.w3.org/2012/10/dsr-rw-json-p3p/
17:33:04 <npdoty> Zakim, who is making noise?
17:33:12 <npdoty> ack rigo
17:33:13 <rigo> ack ri
17:33:16 <Zakim> npdoty, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [Microsoft] (14%)
17:33:20 <jtrentadams> jtrentadams has joined #privacy
17:33:25 <fjh> rigo, thanks am not up to speed on what happened at the workshop
17:34:22 <robin> rigo: two main threads of discussion: (1) policy and tracking implications... and how much should W3C get into that area
17:35:02 <robin> rigo: and (2) actually some policy/compliance considerations are unavoidable in work on "tracking protection"
17:35:31 <Zakim> -MacTed
17:35:38 <robin> rigo: we can look at P3P as a first attempt to define what metadata is needed for such protections, and how they are to be transported/expressed/enforced
17:36:00 <npdoty> if people are interested in this short notice work...
17:36:01 <npdoty> http://opennotice.org/
17:36:10 <npdoty> is a group of various projects around the privacy icon idea
17:36:24 <robin> Agenda item 6: update on CSP privacy issues
17:36:31 <npdoty> and we might look into a Community Group to investigate work at W3C, which I'll update PING on
17:37:07 <robin> jtrentadams: a quick recap: Content Security Policy (CSP) WG
17:37:36 <npdoty> Web App Sec Working Group, which is working on Content Security Policy
17:37:51 <robin> jtrentadams: set of substantive issues, plus some general concerns about engagement
17:37:55 <robin> 3 substantive issues:
17:38:51 <robin> jtrentadams: 1 - "phone home" question: if a user agt violates policy, should the agent report the violation, and if it does, should it be allowed to be a silten feature (i.e. without user notice/consent)?
17:39:10 <robin> *silent
17:40:06 <robin> jtrentadams: networked application design is based on a clear assumption that data is flowing back and forth constantly; therefore a "core dump" of whatever is on the client might not be appropriate (compared with a more standard 'distributed PC' architecture
17:40:21 <npdoty> s/silten/silent/
17:40:55 <robin> jtrentadams: 2 - CSP spec now has reporting fields that are necessary for debugging or enforcement, and nothing else
17:41:36 <robin> jtrentadams: 3 - Capabilities for applications to 'fingerprint' a given device; a known issue/problem/concern, but not realistically within the scope of the CSP group
17:41:52 <npdoty> is there a new fingerprinting risk from CSP? is that from the violation reports? or some other feature?
17:41:58 <rigo> DRM!
17:42:19 <robin> jtrentadams: Up to site ownser to lock down the delivery of content to a specific set of channels, but configs across the web are so unique that some form of fingerprinting is pretty unavoidable
17:42:27 <robin> *owner
17:42:31 <fjh> rigo, ?
17:42:35 <JoeHallCDT> s/ownser/owner/
17:42:44 <robin> jtrentadams: Turning to Fred's second set of issues:
17:43:13 <rigo> fjh, security violation on the user's terminal equipment is another word for DRM :)
17:43:29 <robin> jtrentadams: Are the Web App Sec group acting with due respect to issues raised? Can the PING group contribute its views?
17:43:40 <rigo> fjh, CSP is not limited to that
17:44:03 <rigo> but can be used for it...
17:44:17 <robin> jtrentadams: Trent expressed the concerns to Web App Sec, who took serious steps to review their issue-handling process and ensure concerns raised were properly dealt with
17:45:16 <rigo> q+
17:45:18 <robin> jtrentadams: ... and expressed their regret that the conversation had not been well managed on their part initially; reaffirmed their commitment to ensure good cross-group activity henceforth
17:45:48 <npdoty> thank you, jtrentadams, and well done!
17:45:52 <JoeHallCDT> yes +1
17:46:06 <rigo> ack ri
17:46:23 <robin> rigo: Thanks, Trent - good job
17:47:03 <robin> rigo: <... ... ...> [redacted] ;^p
17:48:25 <robin> rigo: it may not be as obvious on some mobile devices that such reporting back is taking place - so it remains an important issue - but satisfied that CSP is taking it seriously
17:48:57 <npdoty> I wonder if this sort of diplomacy will be a consistent work item
17:49:16 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0214.html
17:49:28 <robin> Next agenda item: Frederik has a request relating to specs including Proximity (link above)
17:49:47 <npdoty> s/Frederik/Frederick/
17:50:39 <robin> Frederik: experience has led to a preference for small, simple, specific, testable and digestible specs for HTML5 functionality
17:51:09 <robin> Frederik: Has circulated a set of specs; use-cases are yet to be fleshed out, but privacy considerations are hoped to be minimal
17:51:39 <rigo> npdoty, I think so
17:51:40 <robin> Frederik: Proximity spec would be a useful example to consider;
17:52:13 <robin> Frederik: HTML Media Capture set of specs is a little more complicated, but will be simplified a little more; updated draft will be brought back for discussion
17:52:16 <rigo> s/Frederik/fjh/
17:52:31 <robin> Frederik: Network Discovery and Web Intents specs are a little further down the line for discussion
17:52:54 <fjh> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-proximity-20121206/
17:52:59 <robin> fjh: (Frederik) So, Proximity:
17:53:05 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0212.html
17:53:30 <robin> fjh: This spec generates an event if something is sensed to be 'near the device' - but not what, or any idenifying data about the thing
17:53:57 <robin> (1) is something near? (2) distance, incl. max/min possible distance
17:54:07 <rigo> oh this is related to the k-anonymity problem of geolocation as defined by Samarati and recently re-assessed by Claudia Diaz
17:54:51 <robin> fjh: Only a rough indication of whether something is nearby - e.g. is a cellphone being held near to someone's face, and if so should some functions be attenuated in the interests of usability?
17:56:05 <robin> fjh: No security/privacy considerations in the spec at the moment; *any* API will gie rise to some level of 'fingerprinting' risk - but keen not to include that in every single spec as a matter of course...
17:56:06 <rigo> http://www.cosic.esat.kuleuven.be/publications/article-1469.pdf -> paper from Claudia Diaz
17:56:07 <robin> *give
17:56:14 <npdoty> failure mode of not noting that a feature doesn't exist, but just not responding with functionality
17:56:24 <npdoty> ... good for minimizing fingerprinting
17:56:27 <npdoty> q+
17:56:44 <rigo> ack npdoty
17:57:32 <robin> npdoty: Also don't necessarily see privacy implications in these specs - not proposing a privacy review of the specs, but there are some interesting areas to explore:
17:57:56 <fjh> q+
17:57:56 <robin> e.g. detection of co-location (as distinct from geo-location) by correlation of other variables
17:57:58 <rigo> q+
17:58:16 <robin> I agree with npdoty : correlation is an interesting area
17:58:48 <robin> some ATM systems use something similar, though I acknowledge that they tend also to use e.g. cell tower identifiers (but not geolocation)
17:58:50 <JoeHallCDT> one thing I can think of is if malware wants to run when there is no one proximate… but that's not necessarily privacy and probably out of scope of that spec
17:58:52 <robin> it's just correlation-based
17:59:12 <npdoty> absolutely -- standardizing small pieces, but some of the privacy issues are systemic, good point, fjh
17:59:49 <robin> fjh: acknowledge that individual pieces (like these specs) can have different privacy implications from the combination of multiple pieces into a system... *systemic* risk ought perhaps to be dealt with in a separate document
18:00:40 <robin> fjh: Still not sure 'ambient light' is a strong identifier... there's a lot of light around...
18:00:53 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
18:00:57 <fjh> q+
18:01:15 <robin> npdoty: Agree: privacy risk more likely to arise from systemic factors/combinations
18:01:25 <rigo> ack fjh
18:01:40 <npdoty> http://www.webplatform.org/
18:02:05 <robin> fjh: W3C put together a website for training: that might be a place to host material dealing with privacy considerations.
18:02:10 <fjh> http://www.webplatform.org/
18:02:30 <robin> npdoty:  webplatform.org - though that isn't necessarily aimed at the web developer community.
18:02:38 <fjh> q-
18:02:51 <rigo> ack ri
18:02:52 <npdoty> aimed at the web developer community, but less at the browser vendor / spec author community
18:03:11 <JC> JC Cannon
18:03:14 <fjh> regrets from Frank Dawson today, holiday in Finland
18:03:30 <bblfish> Henry Story http://bblfish.net/
18:03:30 <christine> and regrets from Erin K
18:03:53 <npdoty> I have heard the suggestion that webplatform.org would be a good home for documentation for the many web developers out there on how best to handle privacy in their sites/apps
18:04:21 <robin> rigo: combination of (DAP) specs is potentially infinite, but there are some universalisable principles one can apply... those could be set out in a doc extending the DAP privacy considerations, or in a note via the PING wiki.
18:04:26 <fjh> http://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2011/03/frederick_hirsch-revised.pdf
18:04:46 <robin> rigo: goal would be to raise developers' awareness of areas where they might 'hit the wall' on privacy issues
18:05:24 <robin> christine: Action: let's start by putting together a note, and then worry wbout where to lodge it (e.g. as an extension to the DAP, or elsewhere)
18:05:41 <robin> christine: volunteers?
18:05:44 <robin> ...
18:06:23 <npdoty> volunteers to review Proximity and perhaps collect that in a note?
18:06:46 <npdoty> fjh: would be good just to get confirmation, just an email that says we're okay
18:06:59 <robin> fjh: Proximity does need looking at, but it would be best to add some other ["atomic"] specs to the mix, and particularly to look at the HTML Media Capture spec.
18:07:26 <robin> christine: So, volunteers for that specific task (looking at Proximity) as well as the other areas...
18:07:39 <JoeHallCDT> I volunteer with Proximity...
18:07:46 <JoeHallCDT> woulld like some help
18:07:51 <tara> Thanks!
18:07:54 <fjh> much thanks, proximity is very short...
18:08:16 <robin> christine: Apologies to bblfish for having run out of time: will add to the front of the next agenda
18:08:16 <JoeHallCDT> it's more about not knowing exactly what to do, which is why I want a tara/nick/christine
18:08:17 <fjh> yes 24 Jan ok
18:08:19 <JC> +1
18:08:29 <Frederik> 24th January some people are on CPDP
18:08:51 <npdoty> or 17 January/
18:08:52 <JoeHallCDT> WFM
18:08:56 <JoeHallCDT> 7 Feb
18:08:58 <rigo> 7 Feb
18:09:04 <Zakim> -jtrentadams
18:09:17 <Frederik> early Feb works for me as well
18:09:18 <robin> fjh: 7th Feb is Media Capture F2F
18:09:22 <JoeHallCDT> meh
18:09:41 <fjh> why not 17th jan?
18:09:43 <JoeHallCDT> same time
18:09:44 <JoeHallCDT> ?
18:10:02 <JoeHallCDT> thx
18:10:11 <fjh> doodle poll?
18:10:19 <JoeHallCDT> maybe poll between 1/17 and 1/24
18:10:20 <rigo> doodle poll!
18:10:21 <robin> 7 Feb had fewest abssentees, I think
18:10:24 <JoeHallCDT> ok
18:10:36 <npdoty> :)
18:10:42 <fjh> thanks
18:10:45 <Zakim> -bblfish
18:10:46 <npdoty> Zakim, list attendees
18:10:47 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +358.504.87aaaa, +1.415.920.aabb, fjh, christine, +49.296.aacc, Rigo, npdoty, +1.508.380.aaee, MacTed, Ashok_Malhotra, tara, jtrentadams,
18:10:47 <Zakim> ... JoeHallCDT, [Microsoft], bblfish, Frederik
18:10:51 <robin> christine: Next call date will be distributed via email
18:10:54 <bblfish> bye
18:10:58 <JoeHallCDT> bye
18:10:58 <Zakim> - +358.504.87aaaa
18:10:59 <Zakim> -fjh
18:11:03 <tara> Thanks! (Tara Whalen)
18:11:04 <Zakim> -Rigo
18:11:06 <Zakim> -npdoty
18:11:08 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
18:11:09 <tara> tara has left #privacy
18:11:11 <npdoty> rrsagent, make logs public
18:11:14 <Frederik> Thanks all!
18:11:15 <npdoty> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:11:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-minutes.html npdoty
18:11:16 <Zakim> -JoeHallCDT
18:11:18 <Zakim> -tara
18:11:18 <Zakim> -Frederik
18:11:24 <Zakim> -christine
18:11:32 <robin> ending transcription - apologies again for the ropy start.
18:11:34 <npdoty> chair: christine
18:11:38 <npdoty> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:11:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-minutes.html npdoty
18:11:51 <Karima> Don't see my name on lis of attendees..
18:11:55 <robin> you're welcome - hope they ended up OK
18:12:08 <npdoty> Present+ Karima
18:12:14 <npdoty> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:12:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-minutes.html npdoty
18:12:16 <AnnaLong> AnnaLong has joined #privacy
18:12:47 <Zakim> - +49.296.aacc
18:12:57 <Zakim> -??P31
18:12:58 <Zakim> Team_(privacy)17:00Z has ended
18:12:58 <Zakim> Attendees were +358.504.87aaaa, +1.415.920.aabb, fjh, christine, +49.296.aacc, Rigo, npdoty, +1.508.380.aaee, MacTed, Ashok_Malhotra, tara, jtrentadams, JoeHallCDT, [Microsoft],
18:12:58 <Zakim> ... bblfish, Frederik
18:12:59 <npdoty> AnnaLong, sorry about the confusion, I saw you posted a message in #dnt, but the Privacy Interest Group Call was over here
18:13:08 <npdoty> Zakim, bye
18:13:08 <Zakim> Zakim has left #privacy
18:13:10 <npdoty> rrsagent, bye
18:13:10 <RRSAgent> I see no action items