IRC log of privacy on 2012-12-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:52:19 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #privacy
16:52:19 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-irc
16:52:31 [npdoty]
Meeting: Privacy Interest Group teleconference
16:54:43 [Zakim]
Team_(privacy)17:00Z has now started
16:54:43 [christine]
christine has joined #privacy
16:54:51 [Zakim]
+ +358.504.87aaaa
16:54:58 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.920.aabb
16:55:10 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:55:17 [fjh]
zakim, code?
16:55:17 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7464 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh
16:55:21 [tara]
tara has joined #privacy
16:55:32 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
16:55:39 [fjh]
zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
16:55:39 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
16:55:50 [fjh]
Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
16:55:55 [christine]
Zakim, I am +[IPcaller]
16:55:55 [Zakim]
sorry, christine, I do not see a party named '+[IPcaller]'
16:56:28 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
16:56:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +358.504.87aaaa, +1.415.920.aabb, [IPcaller], fjh
16:56:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see tara, christine, RRSAgent, mikeperry, Zakim, npdoty, fjh, Karima, rigo, MacTed, wseltzer_transit
16:56:30 [rigo]
christine, looks like frederick stole your line
16:56:38 [rigo]
kind of identity theft
16:56:43 [fjh]
zakim, IPcaller is christine
16:56:45 [Zakim]
+christine; got it
16:56:47 [Zakim]
+ +49.296.aacc
16:56:47 [christine]
So what do I do?
16:57:11 [christine]
Thanks Frederick
16:57:22 [rigo]
fjh, are you in 415 area?
16:57:47 [rigo]
ah :)
16:57:47 [fjh]
zakim, where is 415?
16:57:47 [Zakim]
North American dialing code 1.415 is California
16:57:55 [christine]
Waiting for the hour and for scribe to arrive
16:58:21 [christine]
Agenda:
16:58:29 [christine]
1. Welcome and introductions.
16:58:31 [Zakim]
+Rigo
16:58:40 [christine]
2. Report out from the TPAC breakout session: Is fingerprinting a lost cause? and skeleton draft (Nick)
16:58:48 [christine]
3. Report out from the TPAC DAP WG meeting and privacy (Frederick/Rigo/Christine)
16:58:57 [christine]
4. Report out from the Do Not Track and Beyond workshop (Brad/Nick)
16:59:04 [christine]
5. Update regarding CSP privacy issues (Trent)
16:59:16 [christine]
6. Upcoming privacy reviews: - Proximity API (Frederick) - others?
16:59:16 [tara]
Not sure if 415 is me - that's my area code but not the number at this desk...
16:59:27 [christine]
7. Privacy considerations (Nick/Frank)
16:59:34 [christine]
8. AOB
16:59:43 [rigo]
zakim, mute me
16:59:43 [Zakim]
Rigo should now be muted
16:59:45 [Zakim]
+ +1.347.570.aadd
16:59:51 [christine]
(As you see I need lessons in IRC and Zakim)
17:00:23 [MacTed]
MacTed has joined #privacy
17:01:00 [Zakim]
+npdoty
17:01:34 [npdoty]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
17:01:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +358.504.87aaaa, +1.415.920.aabb, christine, fjh, +49.296.aacc, Rigo (muted), +1.347.570.aadd, npdoty
17:01:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.508.380.aaee
17:02:01 [christine]
New person: Zuiderveen Borgesius, Frederik
17:02:07 [Frederik]
Frederik has joined #privacy
17:02:18 [npdoty]
welcome, Frederik
17:02:22 [npdoty]
welcome back, fjh
17:02:23 [MacTed]
Zakim, code?
17:02:23 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7464 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), MacTed
17:02:27 [tara]
Welcome and hello!
17:02:28 [fjh]
Hi, I'm Frederick Hirsch from Nokia, charing Device APIs (DAP) and XML Security. Have been active in W3C privacy workshops in the past. Interested in applying to DAP.
17:02:33 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software
17:02:34 [fjh]
s/Frederik/Frederick/g
17:02:39 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
17:02:39 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
17:02:41 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
17:02:41 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
17:03:06 [jtrentadams]
jtrentadams has joined #privacy
17:03:12 [christine]
Agenda item 2 - report out from TPAC - Is fingerprinting a lost cause?
17:03:12 [Frederik]
hi, Frederik here http://www.ivir.nl/staff/borgesius.html
17:03:28 [christine]
Report provided by Nick
17:03:33 [Zakim]
+??P31
17:03:48 [Zakim]
+[CDT]
17:03:50 [MacTed]
MacTed has changed the topic to: Privacy IG - http://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy - current agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0205.html
17:03:51 [fjh]
s/Borgesius, Frederick/Borgesius, Frederik/
17:04:00 [christine]
To discuss suggestions that fingerprinting might be too difficult to deal with
17:04:16 [AshokMalhotra]
AshokMalhotra has joined #privacy
17:04:25 [fjh]
s/welcome, Frederick/welcome, Frederik/
17:04:28 [JoeHallCDT]
JoeHallCDT has joined #privacy
17:04:31 [christine]
e.g. with respect to APIs
17:04:32 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
17:04:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-minutes.html fjh
17:04:46 [christine]
to Rigo: please could you record attendance?
17:04:56 [tara]
http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-fingerprint-minutes.html
17:05:01 [Zakim]
+Ashok_Malhotra
17:05:19 [jtrentadams]
zakim, who is here
17:05:19 [Zakim]
jtrentadams, you need to end that query with '?'
17:05:28 [jtrentadams]
zakim, who is here?
17:05:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +358.504.87aaaa, +1.415.920.aabb, christine, fjh, +49.296.aacc, Rigo (muted), +1.347.570.aadd, npdoty, +1.508.380.aaee, MacTed (muted), ??P31, [CDT],
17:05:32 [Zakim]
... Ashok_Malhotra
17:05:32 [Zakim]
On IRC I see JoeHallCDT, AshokMalhotra, jtrentadams, Frederik, MacTed, tara, christine, RRSAgent, mikeperry, Zakim, npdoty, fjh, Karima, rigo, wseltzer_transit
17:05:42 [fjh]
i/To discuss/Topic: Fingerprinting/
17:06:00 [christine]
Different threat models - can we prevent passive fingerprinting; can we produce a common brower profile with reduced functionality
17:06:12 [robin]
robin has joined #privacy
17:06:13 [tara]
zakim, aabb is me
17:06:13 [Zakim]
+tara; got it
17:06:23 [christine]
Trade-offs when developing a new API
17:06:31 [jtrentadams]
Zakim, jtrentadams is aaee
17:06:31 [Zakim]
sorry, jtrentadams, I do not recognize a party named 'jtrentadams'
17:06:43 [MacTed]
Zakim, aaee is jtrentadams
17:06:43 [Zakim]
+jtrentadams; got it
17:06:54 [christine]
Consensus - you should not do nothing - balancing considerations - WGs considering when develping APIs
17:07:05 [MacTed]
(Administrivia: updates to the upcoming meeting schedule [and past minutes] in the wiki would be a goodness. I can fix some of the past, but look there myself to learn about the future...)
17:07:14 [JoeHallCDT]
Zakim, [CDT] is JoeHallCDT
17:07:14 [Zakim]
+JoeHallCDT; got it
17:07:27 [christine]
Handing over scribe duties to Robin
17:07:52 [christine]
Nick talking about the skeleton draft (see email thread)
17:08:12 [christine]
Looking for feedback
17:08:15 [christine]
Q+
17:08:30 [rigo]
ack christine
17:08:58 [npdoty]
this was my skeleton draft: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0204.html
17:09:23 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:09:31 [christine]
A very useful document. Let's put it in a collaborative space and start fleshing it out.
17:09:38 [fjh]
wiki sounds simpler to start
17:09:39 [Karima]
+q
17:09:41 [npdoty]
wiki or github? what would make others most likely to help?
17:09:54 [npdoty]
ack Karima
17:09:56 [fjh]
q+
17:10:36 [JC]
JC has joined #PRIVACY
17:10:40 [Karima]
ok
17:11:21 [npdoty]
"the most secure system is a brick"
17:11:40 [christine]
[All Robin is experiencing technical issues - could someone else volunteer to take over scribing]
17:11:47 [npdoty]
fjh: call out the tradeoff between functionality and fingerprinting risk at the very outset
17:12:03 [tara]
I can!
17:12:12 [npdoty]
scribenick: tara
17:12:16 [JC]
Isn't there a difference between passive and active fingerprinting?
17:12:29 [fjh]
summary http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0212.html
17:12:34 [npdoty]
JC, yes, definitely, that's one of the differences I wanted to highlight in this document
17:12:43 [christine]
Agenda item 3
17:12:47 [fjh]
i/summary/Topic: DAP F2F summary/
17:12:53 [tara]
Frederick & Rigo: update on DAP
17:13:00 [npdoty]
... because I think we'll give different guidance on passive vs. active new fingerprinting surface
17:13:31 [tara]
Came up with thoughts: informative material would be helpful.
17:14:22 [rwilton]
rwilton has joined #privacy
17:14:32 [rigo]
ack ri
17:14:42 [fjh]
q-
17:14:47 [rwilton]
rwilton has left #privacy
17:14:54 [tara]
Details are in email that was circulated. (Not scribed here.)
17:15:26 [fjh]
see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0212.html
17:15:28 [npdoty]
q+
17:15:49 [tara]
Participants were worried about privacy concerns (e.g., around debugging) and what limits this might cause.
17:16:02 [Zakim]
+bblfish
17:16:08 [tara]
Were able to reassure them that an effective solution could be found.
17:17:08 [bblfish]
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17:17:11 [bblfish]
hi
17:17:15 [npdoty]
christine: really was a case of the device api group asking for help with concerns
17:17:15 [rigo]
zakim, mute me
17:17:16 [Zakim]
Rigo should now be muted
17:17:17 [fjh]
thank you for joining DAP for that session
17:17:24 [bblfish]
q?
17:17:34 [bblfish]
sorry for being late.
17:17:38 [bblfish]
q+
17:17:53 [fjh]
q+
17:18:05 [rigo]
ack npdoty
17:18:25 [JoeHallCDT]
\me doesn't think Tara is actually scribing, no?
17:18:40 [robin]
I may be able to take over now...
17:18:53 [robin]
Apologies for my poor IRC skillz :^(
17:19:07 [tara]
(We seem to be handing off various parts - but go ahead Robin!)
17:19:08 [bblfish]
bblfish is Henry Story, http://webid.info/
17:19:09 [rigo]
christine, bblfish is Henry Story
17:19:21 [npdoty]
scribenick: robin
17:19:21 [rigo]
ack fjh
17:19:31 [robin]
OK - apologies in advance if I don't recognise voices
17:19:39 [npdoty]
npdoty: to take a more skeptical view, were we coming in too late?
17:19:46 [robin]
Now's a good time to reintroduce the privacy topic
17:19:47 [rigo]
this is fjh
17:20:03 [npdoty]
... have occasionally heard pushback when privacy people come in with feedback too late in the process
17:20:11 [fjh]
q?
17:20:16 [rigo]
robin, just type ??: if you don't understand who is talking
17:20:29 [npdoty]
Web Intents vs. Web Activities, yeah?
17:20:45 [robin]
fjh looking to combine WebIntense work (Google) and Mozilla WebActivities work
17:20:54 [robin]
*WebIntents
17:21:01 [npdoty]
s/WebIntense/Web Intents/
17:21:11 [npdoty]
ack bblfish
17:21:18 [MacTed]
Zakim, who's noisy?
17:21:29 [Zakim]
MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: christine (4%), +1.347.570.aadd (3%), Ashok_Malhotra (4%), [Microsoft] (7%), bblfish (25%)
17:21:37 [robin]
bblfish to speak under AOB
17:22:06 [npdoty]
rrsagent, pointer?
17:22:06 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-irc#T17-22-06
17:22:38 [robin]
hannes: question for FJH: what's the best way to bring new joiners up to speed with the privacy issues, deployment models etc?
17:22:42 [npdoty]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:22:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-minutes.html npdoty
17:22:56 [npdoty]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:23:33 [npdoty]
all the important stuff (nec'y for the security/privacy review) is hidden behind tons of details -- interesting point
17:23:42 [fjh]
http://webintents.org/
17:24:01 [robin]
Is there a high-level write-up that would help people get the essentials from a welter of details about Web Intents and Web Activities?
17:24:28 [jtrentadams]
zakim, who is here?
17:24:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +358.504.87aaaa, tara, christine, fjh, +49.296.aacc, Rigo (muted), +1.347.570.aadd, npdoty, jtrentadams, MacTed (muted), ??P31, JoeHallCDT, Ashok_Malhotra,
17:24:28 [robin]
hannes to send a link to a similar write-up as a model
17:24:32 [Zakim]
... [Microsoft], bblfish
17:24:32 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bblfish, JC, robin, JoeHallCDT, AshokMalhotra, jtrentadams, Frederik, MacTed, tara, christine, RRSAgent, mikeperry, Zakim, npdoty, fjh, Karima, rigo, wseltzer_transit
17:24:59 [robin]
Agenda Item 5 - report from the Beyond DNT workshop (last week); npdoty to report
17:25:25 [robin]
UC Berkeley hosted the event
17:25:47 [robin]
What should W3C focus on on the wake of existing DNT work?
17:25:49 [JoeHallCDT]
It was great!
17:26:02 [robin]
2-3 bullets:
17:26:44 [robin]
1 - how much should W3C standards address the "policy" space? (and how much do they already?)
17:27:20 [robin]
discussion revealed that there's generally some policy content, even if it's not explicit/understood
17:27:28 [robin]
2 - DNT
17:27:56 [robin]
User studies and economic arguments were also intersting; summary/minutes to be published along with a brief report
17:28:02 [robin]
*interesting
17:28:09 [Frederik]
[ 1.347.570.aadd is me, Frederik by the way ]
17:28:15 [robin]
User education is still not well addressed...
17:28:21 [rigo]
Nick Doty is talking
17:28:42 [robin]
3 - Future work:
17:29:11 [robin]
Privacy specification assesssment - Frank Dawson
17:29:22 [JoeHallCDT]
Zakim, +1.347.570.aadd is Frederik
17:29:22 [Zakim]
+Frederik; got it
17:29:29 [robin]
new privacy technologies; privacy icons, standardised short notice...
17:29:44 [JoeHallCDT]
yeah, the "resurrection" so to speak of p3p was fascinating
17:30:10 [JoeHallCDT]
q+
17:30:28 [fjh]
q+
17:30:52 [rigo]
ack JoeHallCDT
17:31:37 [robin]
JoeHallCDT: P3P discussion was fascinating... often written off, but actually a lot of the work is still 'not stale'
17:31:54 [fjh]
privacy rulesets work might be relevant to future work discussions related to P3P, http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/privacy-rulesets/
17:32:28 [robin]
JoeHallCDT: definitelyopportunities to learn from the successes that were in P3P's work...
17:32:30 [npdoty]
vocabulary and ontology very thoughtful and perhaps still useful
17:32:56 [fjh]
q-
17:33:01 [robin]
Frederik: Contributed pointer to privacy rulesets work as a possible asset
17:33:02 [rigo]
fjh, please note DSR and my paper that addresses http://www.w3.org/2012/10/dsr-rw-json-p3p/
17:33:04 [npdoty]
Zakim, who is making noise?
17:33:12 [npdoty]
ack rigo
17:33:13 [rigo]
ack ri
17:33:16 [Zakim]
npdoty, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [Microsoft] (14%)
17:33:20 [jtrentadams]
jtrentadams has joined #privacy
17:33:25 [fjh]
rigo, thanks am not up to speed on what happened at the workshop
17:34:22 [robin]
rigo: two main threads of discussion: (1) policy and tracking implications... and how much should W3C get into that area
17:35:02 [robin]
rigo: and (2) actually some policy/compliance considerations are unavoidable in work on "tracking protection"
17:35:31 [Zakim]
-MacTed
17:35:38 [robin]
rigo: we can look at P3P as a first attempt to define what metadata is needed for such protections, and how they are to be transported/expressed/enforced
17:36:00 [npdoty]
if people are interested in this short notice work...
17:36:01 [npdoty]
http://opennotice.org/
17:36:10 [npdoty]
is a group of various projects around the privacy icon idea
17:36:24 [robin]
Agenda item 6: update on CSP privacy issues
17:36:31 [npdoty]
and we might look into a Community Group to investigate work at W3C, which I'll update PING on
17:37:07 [robin]
jtrentadams: a quick recap: Content Security Policy (CSP) WG
17:37:36 [npdoty]
Web App Sec Working Group, which is working on Content Security Policy
17:37:51 [robin]
jtrentadams: set of substantive issues, plus some general concerns about engagement
17:37:55 [robin]
3 substantive issues:
17:38:51 [robin]
jtrentadams: 1 - "phone home" question: if a user agt violates policy, should the agent report the violation, and if it does, should it be allowed to be a silten feature (i.e. without user notice/consent)?
17:39:10 [robin]
*silent
17:40:06 [robin]
jtrentadams: networked application design is based on a clear assumption that data is flowing back and forth constantly; therefore a "core dump" of whatever is on the client might not be appropriate (compared with a more standard 'distributed PC' architecture
17:40:21 [npdoty]
s/silten/silent/
17:40:55 [robin]
jtrentadams: 2 - CSP spec now has reporting fields that are necessary for debugging or enforcement, and nothing else
17:41:36 [robin]
jtrentadams: 3 - Capabilities for applications to 'fingerprint' a given device; a known issue/problem/concern, but not realistically within the scope of the CSP group
17:41:52 [npdoty]
is there a new fingerprinting risk from CSP? is that from the violation reports? or some other feature?
17:41:58 [rigo]
DRM!
17:42:19 [robin]
jtrentadams: Up to site ownser to lock down the delivery of content to a specific set of channels, but configs across the web are so unique that some form of fingerprinting is pretty unavoidable
17:42:27 [robin]
*owner
17:42:31 [fjh]
rigo, ?
17:42:35 [JoeHallCDT]
s/ownser/owner/
17:42:44 [robin]
jtrentadams: Turning to Fred's second set of issues:
17:43:13 [rigo]
fjh, security violation on the user's terminal equipment is another word for DRM :)
17:43:29 [robin]
jtrentadams: Are the Web App Sec group acting with due respect to issues raised? Can the PING group contribute its views?
17:43:40 [rigo]
fjh, CSP is not limited to that
17:44:03 [rigo]
but can be used for it...
17:44:17 [robin]
jtrentadams: Trent expressed the concerns to Web App Sec, who took serious steps to review their issue-handling process and ensure concerns raised were properly dealt with
17:45:16 [rigo]
q+
17:45:18 [robin]
jtrentadams: ... and expressed their regret that the conversation had not been well managed on their part initially; reaffirmed their commitment to ensure good cross-group activity henceforth
17:45:48 [npdoty]
thank you, jtrentadams, and well done!
17:45:52 [JoeHallCDT]
yes +1
17:46:06 [rigo]
ack ri
17:46:23 [robin]
rigo: Thanks, Trent - good job
17:47:03 [robin]
rigo: <... ... ...> [redacted] ;^p
17:48:25 [robin]
rigo: it may not be as obvious on some mobile devices that such reporting back is taking place - so it remains an important issue - but satisfied that CSP is taking it seriously
17:48:57 [npdoty]
I wonder if this sort of diplomacy will be a consistent work item
17:49:16 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0214.html
17:49:28 [robin]
Next agenda item: Frederik has a request relating to specs including Proximity (link above)
17:49:47 [npdoty]
s/Frederik/Frederick/
17:50:39 [robin]
Frederik: experience has led to a preference for small, simple, specific, testable and digestible specs for HTML5 functionality
17:51:09 [robin]
Frederik: Has circulated a set of specs; use-cases are yet to be fleshed out, but privacy considerations are hoped to be minimal
17:51:39 [rigo]
npdoty, I think so
17:51:40 [robin]
Frederik: Proximity spec would be a useful example to consider;
17:52:13 [robin]
Frederik: HTML Media Capture set of specs is a little more complicated, but will be simplified a little more; updated draft will be brought back for discussion
17:52:16 [rigo]
s/Frederik/fjh/
17:52:31 [robin]
Frederik: Network Discovery and Web Intents specs are a little further down the line for discussion
17:52:54 [fjh]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-proximity-20121206/
17:52:59 [robin]
fjh: (Frederik) So, Proximity:
17:53:05 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2012OctDec/0212.html
17:53:30 [robin]
fjh: This spec generates an event if something is sensed to be 'near the device' - but not what, or any idenifying data about the thing
17:53:57 [robin]
(1) is something near? (2) distance, incl. max/min possible distance
17:54:07 [rigo]
oh this is related to the k-anonymity problem of geolocation as defined by Samarati and recently re-assessed by Claudia Diaz
17:54:51 [robin]
fjh: Only a rough indication of whether something is nearby - e.g. is a cellphone being held near to someone's face, and if so should some functions be attenuated in the interests of usability?
17:56:05 [robin]
fjh: No security/privacy considerations in the spec at the moment; *any* API will gie rise to some level of 'fingerprinting' risk - but keen not to include that in every single spec as a matter of course...
17:56:06 [rigo]
http://www.cosic.esat.kuleuven.be/publications/article-1469.pdf -> paper from Claudia Diaz
17:56:07 [robin]
*give
17:56:14 [npdoty]
failure mode of not noting that a feature doesn't exist, but just not responding with functionality
17:56:24 [npdoty]
... good for minimizing fingerprinting
17:56:27 [npdoty]
q+
17:56:44 [rigo]
ack npdoty
17:57:32 [robin]
npdoty: Also don't necessarily see privacy implications in these specs - not proposing a privacy review of the specs, but there are some interesting areas to explore:
17:57:56 [fjh]
q+
17:57:56 [robin]
e.g. detection of co-location (as distinct from geo-location) by correlation of other variables
17:57:58 [rigo]
q+
17:58:16 [robin]
I agree with npdoty : correlation is an interesting area
17:58:48 [robin]
some ATM systems use something similar, though I acknowledge that they tend also to use e.g. cell tower identifiers (but not geolocation)
17:58:50 [JoeHallCDT]
one thing I can think of is if malware wants to run when there is no one proximate… but that's not necessarily privacy and probably out of scope of that spec
17:58:52 [robin]
it's just correlation-based
17:59:12 [npdoty]
absolutely -- standardizing small pieces, but some of the privacy issues are systemic, good point, fjh
17:59:49 [robin]
fjh: acknowledge that individual pieces (like these specs) can have different privacy implications from the combination of multiple pieces into a system... *systemic* risk ought perhaps to be dealt with in a separate document
18:00:40 [robin]
fjh: Still not sure 'ambient light' is a strong identifier... there's a lot of light around...
18:00:53 [Zakim]
-Ashok_Malhotra
18:00:57 [fjh]
q+
18:01:15 [robin]
npdoty: Agree: privacy risk more likely to arise from systemic factors/combinations
18:01:25 [rigo]
ack fjh
18:01:40 [npdoty]
http://www.webplatform.org/
18:02:05 [robin]
fjh: W3C put together a website for training: that might be a place to host material dealing with privacy considerations.
18:02:10 [fjh]
http://www.webplatform.org/
18:02:30 [robin]
npdoty: webplatform.org - though that isn't necessarily aimed at the web developer community.
18:02:38 [fjh]
q-
18:02:51 [rigo]
ack ri
18:02:52 [npdoty]
aimed at the web developer community, but less at the browser vendor / spec author community
18:03:11 [JC]
JC Cannon
18:03:14 [fjh]
regrets from Frank Dawson today, holiday in Finland
18:03:30 [bblfish]
Henry Story http://bblfish.net/
18:03:30 [christine]
and regrets from Erin K
18:03:53 [npdoty]
I have heard the suggestion that webplatform.org would be a good home for documentation for the many web developers out there on how best to handle privacy in their sites/apps
18:04:21 [robin]
rigo: combination of (DAP) specs is potentially infinite, but there are some universalisable principles one can apply... those could be set out in a doc extending the DAP privacy considerations, or in a note via the PING wiki.
18:04:26 [fjh]
http://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2011/03/frederick_hirsch-revised.pdf
18:04:46 [robin]
rigo: goal would be to raise developers' awareness of areas where they might 'hit the wall' on privacy issues
18:05:24 [robin]
christine: Action: let's start by putting together a note, and then worry wbout where to lodge it (e.g. as an extension to the DAP, or elsewhere)
18:05:41 [robin]
christine: volunteers?
18:05:44 [robin]
...
18:06:23 [npdoty]
volunteers to review Proximity and perhaps collect that in a note?
18:06:46 [npdoty]
fjh: would be good just to get confirmation, just an email that says we're okay
18:06:59 [robin]
fjh: Proximity does need looking at, but it would be best to add some other ["atomic"] specs to the mix, and particularly to look at the HTML Media Capture spec.
18:07:26 [robin]
christine: So, volunteers for that specific task (looking at Proximity) as well as the other areas...
18:07:39 [JoeHallCDT]
I volunteer with Proximity...
18:07:46 [JoeHallCDT]
woulld like some help
18:07:51 [tara]
Thanks!
18:07:54 [fjh]
much thanks, proximity is very short...
18:08:16 [robin]
christine: Apologies to bblfish for having run out of time: will add to the front of the next agenda
18:08:16 [JoeHallCDT]
it's more about not knowing exactly what to do, which is why I want a tara/nick/christine
18:08:17 [fjh]
yes 24 Jan ok
18:08:19 [JC]
+1
18:08:29 [Frederik]
24th January some people are on CPDP
18:08:51 [npdoty]
or 17 January/
18:08:52 [JoeHallCDT]
WFM
18:08:56 [JoeHallCDT]
7 Feb
18:08:58 [rigo]
7 Feb
18:09:04 [Zakim]
-jtrentadams
18:09:17 [Frederik]
early Feb works for me as well
18:09:18 [robin]
fjh: 7th Feb is Media Capture F2F
18:09:22 [JoeHallCDT]
meh
18:09:41 [fjh]
why not 17th jan?
18:09:43 [JoeHallCDT]
same time
18:09:44 [JoeHallCDT]
?
18:10:02 [JoeHallCDT]
thx
18:10:11 [fjh]
doodle poll?
18:10:19 [JoeHallCDT]
maybe poll between 1/17 and 1/24
18:10:20 [rigo]
doodle poll!
18:10:21 [robin]
7 Feb had fewest abssentees, I think
18:10:24 [JoeHallCDT]
ok
18:10:36 [npdoty]
:)
18:10:42 [fjh]
thanks
18:10:45 [Zakim]
-bblfish
18:10:46 [npdoty]
Zakim, list attendees
18:10:47 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +358.504.87aaaa, +1.415.920.aabb, fjh, christine, +49.296.aacc, Rigo, npdoty, +1.508.380.aaee, MacTed, Ashok_Malhotra, tara, jtrentadams,
18:10:47 [Zakim]
... JoeHallCDT, [Microsoft], bblfish, Frederik
18:10:51 [robin]
christine: Next call date will be distributed via email
18:10:54 [bblfish]
bye
18:10:58 [JoeHallCDT]
bye
18:10:58 [Zakim]
- +358.504.87aaaa
18:10:59 [Zakim]
-fjh
18:11:03 [tara]
Thanks! (Tara Whalen)
18:11:04 [Zakim]
-Rigo
18:11:06 [Zakim]
-npdoty
18:11:08 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
18:11:09 [tara]
tara has left #privacy
18:11:11 [npdoty]
rrsagent, make logs public
18:11:14 [Frederik]
Thanks all!
18:11:15 [npdoty]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:11:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-minutes.html npdoty
18:11:16 [Zakim]
-JoeHallCDT
18:11:18 [Zakim]
-tara
18:11:18 [Zakim]
-Frederik
18:11:24 [Zakim]
-christine
18:11:32 [robin]
ending transcription - apologies again for the ropy start.
18:11:34 [npdoty]
chair: christine
18:11:38 [npdoty]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:11:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-minutes.html npdoty
18:11:51 [Karima]
Don't see my name on lis of attendees..
18:11:55 [robin]
you're welcome - hope they ended up OK
18:12:08 [npdoty]
Present+ Karima
18:12:14 [npdoty]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:12:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-privacy-minutes.html npdoty
18:12:16 [AnnaLong]
AnnaLong has joined #privacy
18:12:47 [Zakim]
- +49.296.aacc
18:12:57 [Zakim]
-??P31
18:12:58 [Zakim]
Team_(privacy)17:00Z has ended
18:12:58 [Zakim]
Attendees were +358.504.87aaaa, +1.415.920.aabb, fjh, christine, +49.296.aacc, Rigo, npdoty, +1.508.380.aaee, MacTed, Ashok_Malhotra, tara, jtrentadams, JoeHallCDT, [Microsoft],
18:12:58 [Zakim]
... bblfish, Frederik
18:12:59 [npdoty]
AnnaLong, sorry about the confusion, I saw you posted a message in #dnt, but the Privacy Interest Group Call was over here
18:13:08 [npdoty]
Zakim, bye
18:13:08 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #privacy
18:13:10 [npdoty]
rrsagent, bye
18:13:10 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items