16:42:23 RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
16:42:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-wg-irc
16:42:25 RRSAgent, make logs public
16:42:25 Zakim has joined #html-wg
16:42:27 Zakim, this will be html_wg
16:42:28 Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
16:42:28 Date: 06 December 2012
16:42:29 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
16:42:42 zakim, this will be html_wg
16:42:42 ok, adrianba; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
16:43:08 ScribeNick: adrianba
16:43:13 Scribe: Adrian Bateman
16:43:17 Chair: Paul Cotton
16:43:29 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012OctDec/0019.html
16:43:37 rrsagent, make minutes
16:43:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba
16:43:41 rrsagent, make logs public
16:51:46 jgraham has joined #html-wg
16:53:30 HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
16:53:37 +??P0
16:53:40 zakim, ??p0 is me
16:53:40 +glenn; got it
16:54:42 paulc has joined #html-wg
16:56:28 cabanier has joined #html-wg
16:56:52 +[Microsoft]
16:56:53 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:56:53 +adrianba; got it
16:57:59 jaymunro has joined #html-wg
16:58:21 krisk has joined #html-wg
17:00:08 janina has joined #html-wg
17:00:18 +[Microsoft]
17:00:28 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
17:00:28 +paulc; got it
17:00:39 +??P19
17:00:45 zakim, who is on the call?
17:00:46 On the phone I see glenn, adrianba, [Microsoft], ??P19
17:00:46 [Microsoft] has paulc
17:00:50 zakim, ??P19 is Janina_Sajka
17:00:50 +Janina_Sajka; got it
17:01:14 +[Apple]
17:01:17 Zakim, Apple is me
17:01:17 +hober; got it
17:01:44 +[Microsoft.a]
17:01:55 Eliot has joined #html-wg
17:01:56 +cabanier
17:02:05 Zakim, Microsoft.a is krisk
17:02:05 +krisk; got it
17:02:46 +[Microsoft.a]
17:02:54 Zakim, microsoft.a has me
17:02:54 +Eliot; got it
17:03:07 +[Microsoft.aa]
17:03:16 zakim, who is on the call?
17:03:17 On the phone I see glenn, adrianba, [Microsoft], Janina_Sajka, hober, krisk, cabanier, [Microsoft.a], [Microsoft.aa]
17:03:19 [Microsoft] has paulc
17:03:19 [Microsoft.a] has Eliot
17:03:19 zakim, microsoft.aa has me
17:03:20 +jaymunro; got it
17:03:39 Barbara has joined #html-wg
17:04:44 TOPIC: ACTION items due by Thursday, December 6
17:04:45 +Radhika_Roy
17:04:53 ACTION-223?
17:04:53 ACTION-223 -- Paul Cotton to figure out how extension specs can refer to HTML 5.1 -- due 2012-11-08 -- CLOSED
17:04:53 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/223
17:05:06 paulc: i put this off last week to remind myself of the context
17:05:19 ... we decided during the media call on tuesday that this was unnecessary
17:05:22 Mfoladare_ has joined #html-wg
17:05:30 ... so i closed the action and don't expect further action is needed
17:05:38 TOPIC: New Issues This Week
17:05:45 paulc: none
17:05:58 ... tracker requests being postponed
17:06:06 TOPIC: HTML 5.1 and Canvas 2D
17:06:17 paulc: the drafts are being worked on
17:06:27 ... believe this is still a work in progress
17:06:45 Eliot, not done yet but expecting robin will finish today
17:06:58 paulc: as soon as the drafts are ready, we will do a 7 day CfC
17:07:04 ... with goal of publishing on dec 17
17:07:07 ... questions?
17:07:10 + +49.322.110.8.aaaa
17:07:16 TOPIC: HTML Microdata
17:07:25 paulc: we have a candidate CR working draft
17:07:34 zakim, aaaa is Barbara
17:07:34 +Barbara; got it
17:07:34 ... did a call for rationale statements since CfC did not pass
17:07:44 ... manu has provided statements against CR
17:07:57 ... believe we have pro position from Mike Smith
17:07:58 q+
17:08:05 ... some other pro statements on the list
17:08:16 ... original plan was to do preference poll with these statements
17:08:29 ... chairs wondering if are ready for this
17:08:29 ack
17:08:37 ack next
17:08:53 hober: i posted to the list volunteering for this
17:09:11 Ted's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Dec/0041.html
17:09:11 paulc: i missed that, sorry
17:09:21 ... how long will it take to close this
17:09:22 +Plh
17:09:43 hober: i said by end of business tomorrow - i imagine it collating the existing statements rather than new writing
17:09:53 paulc: great, that's what i was hoping for
17:10:17 paulc: anticipate preference poll going out when ted finishes his work
17:10:25 TOPIC: Polyglot Markup: HTML-Compatible XHTML Documents
17:10:39 paulc: here we don't yet have a candidate CR draft
17:10:48 ... asked editors to provide with exit criteria
17:11:08 ... other item pending waiting for a pro statement for publishing this or making it normative
17:11:13 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2012Dec/0003.html
17:12:11 -Radhika_Roy
17:12:18 paulc: Eliot do you know what the situation for exit criteria is?
17:12:47 Eliot: based on discussion with the chairs i thought i didn't need to do this until it was decided if this would go to Rec
17:13:00 ... started working on this and might have it soon
17:13:06 gitbot has joined #html-wg
17:13:06 01[13html01] 15darobin pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/df69216520fc4c15df069a63e842e78302a495b0
17:13:06 13html/06master 14df69216 15Robin Berjon: boilerplate level 2 and nightly
17:13:06 gitbot has left #html-wg
17:13:16 paulc: that's fine - good to do it soon if you can
17:13:38 paulc: wanted to point WG members to the TAG discussion about retaining the original request for polyglot document or not
17:13:48 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Nov/0047.html
17:13:50 gitbot has joined #html-wg
17:13:50 01[13html01] 15darobin pushed 1 new commit to 06FPWD51: 02https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/6306692cbe44b0f38676a773785e45b679de4cbb
17:13:50 13html/06FPWD51 146306692 15Robin Berjon: level 2 and 5.1 with a space
17:13:50 gitbot has left #html-wg
17:14:12 paulc: believe TAG is meeting yesterday or today
17:14:17 ... thread is continuing
17:14:26 Recent TAG discussion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Dec/0034.html
17:14:52 paulc: eliot, i note that larry has asked for you to be engaged in the discussion
17:15:06 Eliot: i sent mail to Noah to see what he thought would be appropriate
17:15:11 ... willing to engage as needed
17:15:35 paulc: two items to worry about - normativity of document and moving to CR
17:15:46 ... yours is about Rec track, adrianba?
17:15:57 adrianba: yes, but i included a note on normative
17:16:26 paulc: we can hold this for a week or so to see how the TAG closes this down
17:16:44 ... i will track this and will try to get preference poll out once we have appropriate evidence
17:16:51 ... comments?
17:16:59 TOPIC: HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives
17:17:05 +??P51
17:17:08 Zakim, ??P51 is me
17:17:08 +darobin; got it
17:17:12 Zakim, mute me
17:17:12 darobin should now be muted
17:17:15 paulc: do have canidate CR draft but need exit criteria
17:17:22 ... currently pending work by a11y TF
17:17:32 ... plan 2014 pointed to some work that TF had done
17:17:40 ... discussed on TF meeting this morning
17:17:52 ... janina, can you give us an update?
17:18:19 janina: the outcome of today's discussion was to ask that publication of this be deferred while we resolve issues about alt in this document and the html spec
17:18:28 edoyle has joined #html-wg
17:18:30 ... we will do a CfC based on the telcon
17:18:39 ... expect that we will ask this to be deferred
17:19:00 paulc: one item was that the chairs had encouraged TF to work with editors to get differences resolved
17:19:09 ... but we didn't know the status on the TF this morning
17:19:19 ... wanted to get status from robin or the other editors
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17:19:43 paulc: moving this forward to CR is on hold for now waiting for pending work
17:20:20 ... people probably think we don't need a spec overlapping html5 normative language
17:20:28 ... janina, do you agree?
17:20:34 janina: think so
17:20:40 TOPIC: Main Element
17:20:43 q+ to go back to html5.1 and canvas2d.next
17:20:47 paulc: CfC passed
17:20:57 ... provisional date is dec 17
17:21:27 TOPIC: ARIA in HTML
17:21:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0147.html
17:22:13 +Tantek
17:22:30 paulc: this is a request to publish as FPWD - waiting for feedback on whether ready for CfC
17:22:38 darobin:ok
17:22:41 janina: i missed the meetings about this so didn't follow up
17:22:56 ... PF did approve but didn't follow-up
17:22:56 s/darobin:ok//
17:23:04 ... no reason why we can't do CfC
17:23:21 paulc: plan is to do CfC for publishing of FPWD of using ARIA in HTML
17:23:30 ... will work with janina on this
17:23:56 ... both in task force and working group simultaneously
17:23:58 janina: and in PF
17:24:18 TOPIC: HTML 5.1 and Canvas 2D
17:24:24 ack next
17:24:26 plh, you wanted to go back to html5.1 and canvas2d.next
17:24:33 ack plh
17:24:37 plh: i believe that robin is ready (and he is on the phone)
17:24:51 paulc: can we get the URLs of the stable docs in IRC
17:24:55 plh: yes
17:24:58 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/
17:25:07 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/FPWD51/Overview.html
17:25:20 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/FPWD51/Overview.html
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17:26:14 Robin, please type in here
17:26:29 it looks like it isn't working
17:26:35 I'll type
17:26:40 those drafts should be okay
17:26:44 (not sure if I need to add more)
17:26:52 please check that they're correct
17:26:56 paulc: we need to do a separate CfC on publication of these drafts, correct?
17:26:59 plh: correct
17:27:12 paulc: would like to do this today so we can hit dec 17
17:27:23 paulc: think will do two separate CfCs
17:27:27 we need to pick a shortname for canvas2d2
17:27:51 this can be done outside the call, by executive decision
17:27:57 "2dcontext-2" ?
17:28:11 paulc: chairs and team will figure out short name
17:28:29 ... every working draft has a short name
17:28:51 ... plh, for these FPWD does this request have to go to chairs list?
17:28:57 c2d
17:29:04 plh: yes, it's FPWD, no directors request just sent to chairs list
17:29:10 paulc: did this happen for main element?
17:29:13 plh: no, not yet
17:29:19 paulc: okay, this needs to happen too
17:29:20 1. Chairs message on main element to chairs@w3.org
17:29:44 2. Chairs messgae on HTML5.1 and Canvas2D-2 to Chairs@w3.org
17:29:53 3. Cfc on FPWD of HTML 5.1
17:30:03 4. CfC on FPWD of Canvas2D-2
17:30:23 paulc: is this correct?
17:30:48 5. CfC on FPWD of ARIA in HTML (also in PF and A11Y TF)
17:31:08 6. Chairs message on FPWD of ARIA in HTML to chairs@w3.org
17:31:20 ... think this is all the publication things?
17:31:39 plh: what is the minimum duration for canvas2d in CR?
17:32:10 paulc: don't know
17:32:17 moving to 6mong
17:32:20 plh: was a discussion after CfC about reducing duration
17:32:25 ... think it was only 6 months
17:32:33 ... not sure if acknowledged anywhere
17:32:53 -Tantek
17:33:25 paulc: was this in the archive?
17:33:37 plh: yes but i'm looking for the conclusion of the discussion
17:33:53 rrsagent, make minutes
17:33:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba
17:34:21 paulc: last week's minutes say we had no objections and request to reduce duration of CR
17:34:31 ... and were expecting decision by next week
17:35:22 I'll change the boilerplate once the decision has been made for shortening to 6 months.
17:35:42 plh: last week sam said decision would be made by this week - are you asking for a CfC now?
17:35:54 paulc: plh, what is your recommendation?
17:36:12 plh: one way to go is to see what people on this call think
17:36:26 ... say it will be 6 months unless someone says something on the list within one week
17:36:54 From Rik: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/0212.html
17:38:15 paulc: will reply to the thread stating it will be 6 months unless someone objects by some date
17:38:22 7. Chairs to confirm with WG that min duration for Canvas CR will be 6 months
17:38:38 paulc: plh, anything else?
17:38:48 plh: no, sorry for disturbing the agenda
17:38:57 TOPIC: Testing Task Force
17:39:12 krisk: we met on nov 20
17:39:18 ... and we met on tuesday
17:39:19 Notes http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2012Dec/0001.html
17:39:26 and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2012Dec/0002.html
17:39:28 krisk: here are the notes
17:39:46 ... one thing we agreed is moving towards short names for test organisation
17:39:52 ... this came up a little a tpac
17:40:03 ... 1. this means we don't need metadata in every test
17:40:11 ... 2. it will help understand coverage of tests
17:40:27 ... we spent one meeting for 90 minutes - longer than usual
17:40:32 ... and this week the full hour
17:40:39 ... discussing how to use mercurial better
17:40:49 ... using pull model instead of pushing things in
17:41:01 ... meeting again to make progress on this
17:41:07 ... more participation
17:41:11 ... that's it
17:41:17 paulc: any questions?
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17:41:37 ... krisk, can you give us the most definitive link to work on task force?
17:41:45