16:42:23 RRSAgent has joined #html-wg 16:42:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-wg-irc 16:42:25 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:42:25 Zakim has joined #html-wg 16:42:27 Zakim, this will be html_wg 16:42:28 Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference 16:42:28 Date: 06 December 2012 16:42:29 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes 16:42:42 zakim, this will be html_wg 16:42:42 ok, adrianba; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes 16:43:08 ScribeNick: adrianba 16:43:13 Scribe: Adrian Bateman 16:43:17 Chair: Paul Cotton 16:43:29 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012OctDec/0019.html 16:43:37 rrsagent, make minutes 16:43:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba 16:43:41 rrsagent, make logs public 16:51:46 jgraham has joined #html-wg 16:53:30 HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started 16:53:37 +??P0 16:53:40 zakim, ??p0 is me 16:53:40 +glenn; got it 16:54:42 paulc has joined #html-wg 16:56:28 cabanier has joined #html-wg 16:56:52 +[Microsoft] 16:56:53 zakim, [Microsoft] is me 16:56:53 +adrianba; got it 16:57:59 jaymunro has joined #html-wg 16:58:21 krisk has joined #html-wg 17:00:08 janina has joined #html-wg 17:00:18 +[Microsoft] 17:00:28 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc 17:00:28 +paulc; got it 17:00:39 +??P19 17:00:45 zakim, who is on the call? 17:00:46 On the phone I see glenn, adrianba, [Microsoft], ??P19 17:00:46 [Microsoft] has paulc 17:00:50 zakim, ??P19 is Janina_Sajka 17:00:50 +Janina_Sajka; got it 17:01:14 +[Apple] 17:01:17 Zakim, Apple is me 17:01:17 +hober; got it 17:01:44 +[Microsoft.a] 17:01:55 Eliot has joined #html-wg 17:01:56 +cabanier 17:02:05 Zakim, Microsoft.a is krisk 17:02:05 +krisk; got it 17:02:46 +[Microsoft.a] 17:02:54 Zakim, microsoft.a has me 17:02:54 +Eliot; got it 17:03:07 +[Microsoft.aa] 17:03:16 zakim, who is on the call? 17:03:17 On the phone I see glenn, adrianba, [Microsoft], Janina_Sajka, hober, krisk, cabanier, [Microsoft.a], [Microsoft.aa] 17:03:19 [Microsoft] has paulc 17:03:19 [Microsoft.a] has Eliot 17:03:19 zakim, microsoft.aa has me 17:03:20 +jaymunro; got it 17:03:39 Barbara has joined #html-wg 17:04:44 TOPIC: ACTION items due by Thursday, December 6 17:04:45 +Radhika_Roy 17:04:53 ACTION-223? 17:04:53 ACTION-223 -- Paul Cotton to figure out how extension specs can refer to HTML 5.1 -- due 2012-11-08 -- CLOSED 17:04:53 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/223 17:05:06 paulc: i put this off last week to remind myself of the context 17:05:19 ... we decided during the media call on tuesday that this was unnecessary 17:05:22 Mfoladare_ has joined #html-wg 17:05:30 ... so i closed the action and don't expect further action is needed 17:05:38 TOPIC: New Issues This Week 17:05:45 paulc: none 17:05:58 ... tracker requests being postponed 17:06:06 TOPIC: HTML 5.1 and Canvas 2D 17:06:17 paulc: the drafts are being worked on 17:06:27 ... believe this is still a work in progress 17:06:45 Eliot, not done yet but expecting robin will finish today 17:06:58 paulc: as soon as the drafts are ready, we will do a 7 day CfC 17:07:04 ... with goal of publishing on dec 17 17:07:07 ... questions? 17:07:10 + +49.322.110.8.aaaa 17:07:16 TOPIC: HTML Microdata 17:07:25 paulc: we have a candidate CR working draft 17:07:34 zakim, aaaa is Barbara 17:07:34 +Barbara; got it 17:07:34 ... did a call for rationale statements since CfC did not pass 17:07:44 ... manu has provided statements against CR 17:07:57 ... believe we have pro position from Mike Smith 17:07:58 q+ 17:08:05 ... some other pro statements on the list 17:08:16 ... original plan was to do preference poll with these statements 17:08:29 ... chairs wondering if are ready for this 17:08:29 ack 17:08:37 ack next 17:08:53 hober: i posted to the list volunteering for this 17:09:11 Ted's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Dec/0041.html 17:09:11 paulc: i missed that, sorry 17:09:21 ... how long will it take to close this 17:09:22 +Plh 17:09:43 hober: i said by end of business tomorrow - i imagine it collating the existing statements rather than new writing 17:09:53 paulc: great, that's what i was hoping for 17:10:17 paulc: anticipate preference poll going out when ted finishes his work 17:10:25 TOPIC: Polyglot Markup: HTML-Compatible XHTML Documents 17:10:39 paulc: here we don't yet have a candidate CR draft 17:10:48 ... asked editors to provide with exit criteria 17:11:08 ... other item pending waiting for a pro statement for publishing this or making it normative 17:11:13 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2012Dec/0003.html 17:12:11 -Radhika_Roy 17:12:18 paulc: Eliot do you know what the situation for exit criteria is? 17:12:47 Eliot: based on discussion with the chairs i thought i didn't need to do this until it was decided if this would go to Rec 17:13:00 ... started working on this and might have it soon 17:13:06 gitbot has joined #html-wg 17:13:06 01[13html01] 15darobin pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/df69216520fc4c15df069a63e842e78302a495b0 17:13:06 13html/06master 14df69216 15Robin Berjon: boilerplate level 2 and nightly 17:13:06 gitbot has left #html-wg 17:13:16 paulc: that's fine - good to do it soon if you can 17:13:38 paulc: wanted to point WG members to the TAG discussion about retaining the original request for polyglot document or not 17:13:48 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Nov/0047.html 17:13:50 gitbot has joined #html-wg 17:13:50 01[13html01] 15darobin pushed 1 new commit to 06FPWD51: 02https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/6306692cbe44b0f38676a773785e45b679de4cbb 17:13:50 13html/06FPWD51 146306692 15Robin Berjon: level 2 and 5.1 with a space 17:13:50 gitbot has left #html-wg 17:14:12 paulc: believe TAG is meeting yesterday or today 17:14:17 ... thread is continuing 17:14:26 Recent TAG discussion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Dec/0034.html 17:14:52 paulc: eliot, i note that larry has asked for you to be engaged in the discussion 17:15:06 Eliot: i sent mail to Noah to see what he thought would be appropriate 17:15:11 ... willing to engage as needed 17:15:35 paulc: two items to worry about - normativity of document and moving to CR 17:15:46 ... yours is about Rec track, adrianba? 17:15:57 adrianba: yes, but i included a note on normative 17:16:26 paulc: we can hold this for a week or so to see how the TAG closes this down 17:16:44 ... i will track this and will try to get preference poll out once we have appropriate evidence 17:16:51 ... comments? 17:16:59 TOPIC: HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives 17:17:05 +??P51 17:17:08 Zakim, ??P51 is me 17:17:08 +darobin; got it 17:17:12 Zakim, mute me 17:17:12 darobin should now be muted 17:17:15 paulc: do have canidate CR draft but need exit criteria 17:17:22 ... currently pending work by a11y TF 17:17:32 ... plan 2014 pointed to some work that TF had done 17:17:40 ... discussed on TF meeting this morning 17:17:52 ... janina, can you give us an update? 17:18:19 janina: the outcome of today's discussion was to ask that publication of this be deferred while we resolve issues about alt in this document and the html spec 17:18:28 edoyle has joined #html-wg 17:18:30 ... we will do a CfC based on the telcon 17:18:39 ... expect that we will ask this to be deferred 17:19:00 paulc: one item was that the chairs had encouraged TF to work with editors to get differences resolved 17:19:09 ... but we didn't know the status on the TF this morning 17:19:19 ... wanted to get status from robin or the other editors 17:19:30 Stevef has joined #html-wg 17:19:43 paulc: moving this forward to CR is on hold for now waiting for pending work 17:20:20 ... people probably think we don't need a spec overlapping html5 normative language 17:20:28 ... janina, do you agree? 17:20:34 janina: think so 17:20:40 TOPIC: Main Element 17:20:43 q+ to go back to html5.1 and canvas2d.next 17:20:47 paulc: CfC passed 17:20:57 ... provisional date is dec 17 17:21:27 TOPIC: ARIA in HTML 17:21:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0147.html 17:22:13 +Tantek 17:22:30 paulc: this is a request to publish as FPWD - waiting for feedback on whether ready for CfC 17:22:38 darobin:ok 17:22:41 janina: i missed the meetings about this so didn't follow up 17:22:56 ... PF did approve but didn't follow-up 17:22:56 s/darobin:ok// 17:23:04 ... no reason why we can't do CfC 17:23:21 paulc: plan is to do CfC for publishing of FPWD of using ARIA in HTML 17:23:30 ... will work with janina on this 17:23:56 ... both in task force and working group simultaneously 17:23:58 janina: and in PF 17:24:18 TOPIC: HTML 5.1 and Canvas 2D 17:24:24 ack next 17:24:26 plh, you wanted to go back to html5.1 and canvas2d.next 17:24:33 ack plh 17:24:37 plh: i believe that robin is ready (and he is on the phone) 17:24:51 paulc: can we get the URLs of the stable docs in IRC 17:24:55 plh: yes 17:24:58 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/ 17:25:07 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/FPWD51/Overview.html 17:25:20 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/FPWD51/Overview.html 17:25:50 tpod has joined #html-wg 17:26:14 Robin, please type in here 17:26:29 it looks like it isn't working 17:26:35 I'll type 17:26:40 those drafts should be okay 17:26:44 (not sure if I need to add more) 17:26:52 please check that they're correct 17:26:56 paulc: we need to do a separate CfC on publication of these drafts, correct? 17:26:59 plh: correct 17:27:12 paulc: would like to do this today so we can hit dec 17 17:27:23 paulc: think will do two separate CfCs 17:27:27 we need to pick a shortname for canvas2d2 17:27:51 this can be done outside the call, by executive decision 17:27:57 "2dcontext-2" ? 17:28:11 paulc: chairs and team will figure out short name 17:28:29 ... every working draft has a short name 17:28:51 ... plh, for these FPWD does this request have to go to chairs list? 17:28:57 c2d 17:29:04 plh: yes, it's FPWD, no directors request just sent to chairs list 17:29:10 paulc: did this happen for main element? 17:29:13 plh: no, not yet 17:29:19 paulc: okay, this needs to happen too 17:29:20 1. Chairs message on main element to chairs@w3.org 17:29:44 2. Chairs messgae on HTML5.1 and Canvas2D-2 to Chairs@w3.org 17:29:53 3. Cfc on FPWD of HTML 5.1 17:30:03 4. CfC on FPWD of Canvas2D-2 17:30:23 paulc: is this correct? 17:30:48 5. CfC on FPWD of ARIA in HTML (also in PF and A11Y TF) 17:31:08 6. Chairs message on FPWD of ARIA in HTML to chairs@w3.org 17:31:20 ... think this is all the publication things? 17:31:39 plh: what is the minimum duration for canvas2d in CR? 17:32:10 paulc: don't know 17:32:17 moving to 6mong 17:32:20 plh: was a discussion after CfC about reducing duration 17:32:25 ... think it was only 6 months 17:32:33 ... not sure if acknowledged anywhere 17:32:53 -Tantek 17:33:25 paulc: was this in the archive? 17:33:37 plh: yes but i'm looking for the conclusion of the discussion 17:33:53 rrsagent, make minutes 17:33:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba 17:34:21 paulc: last week's minutes say we had no objections and request to reduce duration of CR 17:34:31 ... and were expecting decision by next week 17:35:22 I'll change the boilerplate once the decision has been made for shortening to 6 months. 17:35:42 plh: last week sam said decision would be made by this week - are you asking for a CfC now? 17:35:54 paulc: plh, what is your recommendation? 17:36:12 plh: one way to go is to see what people on this call think 17:36:26 ... say it will be 6 months unless someone says something on the list within one week 17:36:54 From Rik: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/0212.html 17:38:15 paulc: will reply to the thread stating it will be 6 months unless someone objects by some date 17:38:22 7. Chairs to confirm with WG that min duration for Canvas CR will be 6 months 17:38:38 paulc: plh, anything else? 17:38:48 plh: no, sorry for disturbing the agenda 17:38:57 TOPIC: Testing Task Force 17:39:12 krisk: we met on nov 20 17:39:18 ... and we met on tuesday 17:39:19 Notes http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2012Dec/0001.html 17:39:26 and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2012Dec/0002.html 17:39:28 krisk: here are the notes 17:39:46 ... one thing we agreed is moving towards short names for test organisation 17:39:52 ... this came up a little a tpac 17:40:03 ... 1. this means we don't need metadata in every test 17:40:11 ... 2. it will help understand coverage of tests 17:40:27 ... we spent one meeting for 90 minutes - longer than usual 17:40:32 ... and this week the full hour 17:40:39 ... discussing how to use mercurial better 17:40:49 ... using pull model instead of pushing things in 17:41:01 ... meeting again to make progress on this 17:41:07 ... more participation 17:41:11 ... that's it 17:41:17 paulc: any questions? 17:41:29 tinkster has joined #html-wg 17:41:37 ... krisk, can you give us the most definitive link to work on task force? 17:41:45 krisk: the meeting notes are the best links 17:42:05 paulc: thanks kris 17:42:08 TOPIC: Accessibility Task Force 17:42:46 janina: activity is picking up again with reorg that came with plan 2014 17:42:55 ... people getting clarity of who is doing which piece 17:42:58 This is the best link for Testing Task Force Information http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing 17:43:09 ... had CfC for longdesc spec that restore old historical one 17:43:16 ... mostly supportive but some objections 17:43:33 ... will summarise and respond to all objections before passing to WG 17:43:38 ... that work is ongoing 17:43:54 janina: already talked about alt text issues a few minutes ago - nothing to add 17:44:03 ... bug triage team continues to meet 17:44:19 ... i'm paying more attention to a11y api mapping subteam 17:44:41 ... deliverable for HTML WG to show how html elements and attributes should map to OS apis 17:45:05 ... important deliverable - difficult to find a meeting time because of location of participants 17:45:09 ... that's where we are 17:45:25 TOPIC: Media Task Force 17:45:32 paulc: we restarted the meetings 17:45:54 ... high level report is driving the MSE and EME sub groups to get a document in front of WG that could be FPWD as soon as possible 17:46:03 ... MSE met on tuesday, EME met next tuesday 17:46:16 ... for MSE identified 5 or 6 bugs that need to be fixed before FPWD 17:46:27 ... won't go to zero bugs but should be enough for FPWD 17:46:37 ... hoping to achieve the same for EME next week 17:46:45 ... expecting to be ready for CfC for FPWD in January 17:47:10 -darobin 17:47:18 ... talked about a11y TF paying more attention to media TF 17:47:26 TOPIC: Other Business 17:47:35 paulc: update on public-html-admin 17:47:48 ... list is set-up and is being used for non-technical discussions 17:47:59 ... next item is to get new bugzilla message to go to this list 17:48:08 ... all new CfC discussed today will also go to that list 17:48:15 q+ 17:48:17 ... leaving public-html for pure technical discussion 17:48:42 glenn: i would advise that bugzilla messages go to separate list than admin 17:49:13 paulc: there is a list for this already - WG has previous decision in place asking for new messages only to public-html 17:49:30 ack glenn 17:49:33 ... changing the destination but maintaining that there is a list everyone is subscribed to that gets the new messages 17:49:41 glenn: then i withdraw my comment 17:50:03 paulc: appears to be a request with no responses about publishing their document via the HTML WG 17:50:13 ... added to the agenda because not sure how to process this 17:50:17 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/0173.html 17:50:42 paulc: plh, i wasn't sure how to respond to this - nobody has responded 17:50:51 ... CG has asked about publishing use cases 17:50:58 q+ 17:51:38 plh: seems to me good to publish use cases as WG note 17:52:33 adrianba: haven't had time to respond but we are supportive of moving this forward in HTML WG based on great work in the CG 17:52:42 paulc: so you support publishing both? 17:52:45 adrianba: yes 17:53:05 paulc: this was discussed at TPAC - was the the conclusion to move forward with both specs 17:53:09 q+ 17:53:14 hober: that's how i remember it 17:53:15 tpod has joined #html-wg 17:53:16 ack adrian 17:53:36 paulc: are you ready to publish or do you want to process bugs? 17:53:47 ack p 17:53:48 hober: i haven't asked for fpwd because i want to process bugs 17:54:01 ... expect to be ready in early january 17:54:13 plh: is the intent to pick a winner down the road or do we see both going to rec 17:54:37 hober: think given the timeframe for plan 2014 we have a pretty good window of time to figure this out so i'm okay with uncertainty 17:54:57 ... that said, would be easy to merge srcset document 17:55:09 plh: i was thinking about merging the two proposals for responsive images 17:55:23 ... think it would be good in status of documents to give information about expectation of the group 17:55:34 ... because people might wonder about publishing two competing specs 17:55:41 hober: happy to update status in that way 17:56:08 paulc: i will respond to the msg 173 saying editor of srcset extension proposal has asked for time to process bugs 17:56:18 ... and expect to process CfC on theses docs in early 2013 17:56:21 hober: sounds good 17:56:28 paulc: will move this to admin list 17:56:41 hober: given it is december, expect people will accept early 2013 timeframe 17:56:46 paulc: any other business? 17:56:55 TOPIC: Scribe for next meeting 17:57:03 paulc: expect mjs will chair next week 17:57:09 ... any volunteer to scribe? 17:57:16 plh: i can take notes next week 17:57:18 -Barbara 17:57:20 paulc: thanks plh 17:57:24 Norm has joined #html-wg 17:57:27 TOPIC: Adjournment 17:57:36 -glenn 17:57:40 paulc: meeting is adjourned 17:57:44 -[Microsoft.a] 17:57:45 -cabanier 17:57:47 -hober 17:57:48 -Janina_Sajka 17:57:48 -Plh 17:57:54 -adrianba 17:57:56 -[Microsoft.aa] 17:58:04 zakim, bye 17:58:04 leaving. As of this point the attendees were glenn, adrianba, paulc, Janina_Sajka, hober, [Microsoft], cabanier, krisk, Eliot, jaymunro, Radhika_Roy, +49.322.110.8.aaaa, Barbara, 17:58:04 Zakim has left #html-wg 17:58:07 ... Plh, darobin, Tantek 17:58:10 rrsagent, make minutes 17:58:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba 18:00:25 tantek has joined #html-wg 18:33:08 Norm has joined #html-wg 18:49:20 mjs has joined #html-wg 18:50:40 tinkster has joined #html-wg 19:31:32 jarek has joined #html-wg 19:37:05 icaaq has joined #html-wg 19:42:28 Norm has joined #html-wg 19:54:56 Norm has joined #html-wg 19:58:45 tinkster has joined #html-wg 20:00:20 tinkster has joined #html-wg 20:12:16 Stevef has joined #html-wg 20:26:37 dveditz_ has joined #html-wg 20:40:23 mjs has joined #html-wg 21:01:32 mjs has joined #html-wg 21:23:21 chriho has joined #html-wg 21:30:34 mjs has joined #html-wg 21:42:17 Norm has joined #html-wg 22:09:13 darobin has joined #html-wg