See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 29 November 2012
<bhyland> Thanks to all of those who completed the Doodle poll already, see http://doodle.com/3w7wnzy45ehn7iqi
<bhyland> for the next F2F
<scribe> scribenick: BartvanLeeuwen
<james> who's on the call?
<agipap> zakim ??P39 is me
<james> who's on the call?
<bhyland> Review & approval of minutes http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-11-08
bhyland, do a quick minute review
<bhyland> scribe: bartvanLeeuwen
<Olcoz> Hi
<Olcoz> I am trying to join you by phone but I can not yet
bhyland, did we move ADMS into FPWD ?
<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-10-25
<cygri> my recollection matches sandro's
<olyerickson1> +1 minutes
<atemezin> +1
bhyland, DeirdreLee will track with Phila the ADMS Status
<makx> +1
<agipap> +1
+1
<BenediktKaempgen> +1
<Olcoz> Hi
<bhyland> approved
<Olcoz> I already join you
<Olcoz> Serafin Olcpoz
<Olcoz> Olcoz
<jpalmeida> I am IPcaller
<sandro> speakerphone noise....?
GofranShu, presented at COLD workshop during ISWC 2012 Boston
GofranShu, talked about who is behind it
GofranShu, and the API she did for it
bhyland, if you've been to conferences please share slides
bhyland, majority of ISWC visitors european and asian
bhyland, lot about linked data in poster sessions
bhyland, industry track, 3 sessions in parallel with a lot of uptake
<atemezin> Our group here won the Semantic Web Challenge with EventMedia Live..See the demo of our tool here: http://eventmedia.eurecom.fr/demo.html
DeirdreLee, 2 open data events last week in Ireland
DeirdreLee, 1) Data to drive innovation, by dublin open data portal
<bhyland> RE: ISWC2012 (Boston), the program is here http://iswc2012.semanticweb.org/program
DeirdreLee, first Irish opendata where central government talked about open data policy
DeirdreLee, 2) Open data meetup, community event, mixed crowd
<DeirdreLee> http://data.fingal.ie/Blog/November2012/Name,36164,en.aspx
<atemezin> Also I presented my work on Geodata and the current movement in France to expose their data as RDF at Terra Cognita ..http://www.strabon.di.uoa.gr/terracognita/papers/terra12_submission_1.pdf
<bhyland> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html
who is talking ?
<sandro> bhyland, I thought I was talking about org process not regorg process.
<bhyland> agipap whose first name is Agis
<sandro> it's agipap
agipap, 3 dimensions on review
agipap, 1 ) Issues 41, 46 47
<atemezin> Issue 41: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/41
agipap, 2) lengthy comments on the mailing list
<bhyland> [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/41
<bhyland> [2] http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/46
<bhyland> [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/47
<BenediktKaempgen> Agis Papantoniou
Issue-46
<sandro> issue-46?
<trackbot> ISSUE-46 -- Should GLD vocabularies define conceptual models too? -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/46
Issue-46 is about: spec not written as a RDF schema, but as a conceptual model
cIssue-46 is about: spec not written as a RDF schema, but as a conceptual model
<bhyland> cygri: Concern is that the RegOrg is written as a conceptual model w/ UML diagram vs. as a RDF centric model
<bhyland> cygri … questions why this is the case since the wg's focus is RDF and the docs should reflect that ...
cygri, its not in our charter to do general model,
cygri, its now represented in a way it is hard for RDF people to figure out how to model
<cygri> BartvanLeeuwen: is RegOrg the new name for Registered Entity?
<cygri> bhyland: yes
http://opencorporates.com/companies/nl/34094172.rdf
<cygri> BartvanLeeuwen: this seemed clearer in the ISA documents (?) and i wonder why we were retreating back to a more general model
<bhyland> Bart asked why ISA Programme Core Vocab (used by OpenCorporates), provided more RDF centric examples than this one … why is that?
<cygri> BartvanLeeuwen: ISA Core documentation has lots of documentation aimed at RDF. Now RegOrg seems to be a spin-off that's more generic. That confuses me
<bhyland> The issue is that the current RegOrg doc is way to high level & leaves it as an exercise to the reader to go look up how to do it in RDF.
<bhyland> DaveReynolds: The Legal Entity was renamed Registered Org. This is the vocab that Chris Taggert started ...
<bhyland> There is agreement with cygri's point by several wg members ...
<cygri> dave++
<bhyland> … concerns with current structure of the document
<bhyland> … notion of code in UML diagram is completely underspecified.
<olyerickson1> See http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html#the-conceptual-model
<bhyland> … hard to understand the document because it is purely from conceptual point of view.
<bhyland> … Recommend that the RDF examples be put in first.
agipap, agrees with the comments, move UML + conceptual model to end of document
<bhyland> Agipap: Agrees conceptual model can go to appendix. Appreciated the opportunity to discuss on this call.
<jpalmeida> Ijpalmeida
<jpalmeida> João Paulo
<cygri> agipap, FWIW, i like having a UML model early in the document, but it should be a UML model that contains RDF classes and RDF properties. The current UML document is more high-level, and would be better in an appendix IMHO.
<cygri> jpalmeida++
jpalmeida, on the mailinglist there is ORG ontology a UML diagram, using the correct notation, why not use this method for the other vocabularies
<DaveReynolds> Agreed. The issue is not the UML diagram as such it is that the conceptual model uses names which don't match the RDF terms and uses a notion of "types" whose mapping to RDF is not clear.
<jpalmeida> +1
bhyland, agipap will take comments to the mailing list and update the document accordingly
DaveReynolds, we discuss the representation, not the vocabulary it self, so we could go to FPWD
<bhyland> DaveReynolds: We could vote today to take RegOrg to FPWD and acknowledge we're making edits.
<makx> +1
+1
<bhyland> +1
<sandro> +1 publish early publish often, with NOTEs about issues not yet addressed
sandro, all the raised issues should be in the draft
<bhyland> Sandro: Wants to ensure the issues are properly recorded in the ED, e.g., issue-41, issue-46, issue-47,
sandro, so that readers can see the discussion around the issues
<sandro> ... expressed in a way thats clear for novices
<bhyland> … general process for publication is that Editor says the draft reflects the feedback & issues raised by the WG.
<bhyland> Agreed: Agipap will allocate time to update / edit the issues raised in the RegOrg vocab.
agipap, we should wait with FPWD so that I can edit the document
<jpalmeida> [IPcaller] is jpalmeida
<jpalmeida> yes
<jpalmeida> sorry about that
<bhyland> Cygri: Wants to make explicit the group's desire to advance a document so that people not attending today's meeting appreciate our intention.
cygri: if the wg wants to take a decision on advancing a document, we should put it on the agenda, so that people who can not make the call can react as well
<DaveReynolds> The agenda for this meeting did say "Registered Organization (RegOrg) to FPWD discussion" which is why I was assuming the proposal was to put it to a vote.
<mhausenblas> +1 to what Richard said re making expectations explicit
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#rec-advance
bhyland: after a contact with DaveReynolds to advance ORG Sandro outlined the steps & timeline that shows there isn't sufficient time to completed before getting ORG to Call for Implementations in the W3C Process Pipeline needs a bit more time
<bhyland> … before calendar year end (2012)
<bhyland> Sandro: We have to have two systems using this spec, is called "Call for Implementations", see http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#cfi
<bhyland> … for a vocab, this means two examples of systems using the vocab and systems using (consuming) the data with all the terms.
<bhyland> DaveReynolds: May be challenging to show use of all terms of a vocabulary. Of course, each term was motivated by use cases initially. We need to show interoperability of independent publisher(s) and consumer(s) ...
<bhyland> … Keeping track of independent publishers & consumers may be tricky.
<bhyland> … Going down tracking approach may require more overhead than it is worth. IF we're successful tracking, and say we find no one is consuming some terms, what do we do? Remove the terms?
<bhyland> … sounds like too much overhead for value return
<bhyland> Sandro: Described how the process was handled for SKOS
<bhyland> Sandro: W3C process is there to help us. As long we make a principled argument to modify it, we should be OK. More importantly, if government publishers & consumers find it acceptable, that may trump W3C process.
bhyland: please respond to the doodle pole: http://www.doodle.com/3w7wnzy45ehn7iqi
<atemezin> Question: What about the Google hangout next week?
<bhyland> Please fill out the Doodle poll re: interest & availability to travel Dublin for the next & final GLD WG F2F. http://doodle.com/3w7wnzy45ehn7iqi
<olyerickson1> Thanks Bernadette!
<bhyland> Meeting adjourned.
<DaveReynolds> bye all
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