14:25:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
14:25:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/28-rd-irc
14:25:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:25:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
14:25:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
14:25:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:25:18 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:25:18 <trackbot> Date: 28 November 2012
14:27:30 <shawn> shawn has joined #rd
14:27:37 <sharper> sharper has joined #rd
14:27:48 <sharper> trackbot, start meeting
14:27:48 <sharper> zakim, please clear the agenda
14:27:48 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:27:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:27:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
14:27:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:27:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:27:53 <trackbot> Date: 28 November 2012
14:27:56 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
14:27:57 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
14:27:57 <sharper> Agenda+ TC Debriefing (25m) [all]
14:27:57 <sharper> Agenda+ E2R Final Preparation (35m) [klaus]
14:28:07 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
14:28:12 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
14:28:13 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/28-rd-agenda.rdf
14:28:15 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
14:28:19 <annika> annika has joined #rd
14:28:26 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
14:28:33 <Zakim> +??P22
14:28:41 <Klaus> Klaus has joined #rd
14:28:58 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:29:04 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is me
14:29:04 <Zakim> +shadi; got it
14:29:09 <Zakim> +??P26
14:29:29 <sharper> regrets: Yeliz, Giorgio, Yehya, Markuu, Vivienne, Justine, Silvia
14:29:34 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
14:29:35 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:29:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/28-rd-minutes.html sharper
14:29:35 <annika> zakim, ++P26 is me
14:29:36 <Zakim> sorry, annika, I do not recognize a party named '++P26'
14:29:55 <annika> zakim ??P26 is me
14:30:06 <annika> zakim, ??P26 is me
14:30:06 <Zakim> +annika; got it
14:30:31 <Klaus> zakim, ??P22 is me
14:30:31 <Zakim> +Klaus; got it
14:30:57 <Zakim> +Shawn
14:31:09 <Zakim> +??P29
14:31:11 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:31:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Klaus, shadi, annika, Shawn (muted), ??P29
14:31:17 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
14:31:17 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
14:31:22 <sharper> zakim, ??P29 is sharper
14:31:22 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
14:31:24 <markel> markel has joined #rd
14:31:27 <annika> zakim, mute me
14:31:27 <Zakim> annika should now be muted
14:32:49 <Zakim> +??P30
14:33:04 <markel> zakim, ??P30 is markel
14:33:04 <Zakim> +markel; got it
14:33:50 <sharper> scribe: Vigo_Markel
14:33:58 <sharper> ScribeNick: markel
14:34:14 <markel> zakim,  close item 1
14:34:14 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
14:34:16 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:34:16 <Zakim> 2. TC Debriefing (25m) [from all via sharper]
14:34:16 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:34:23 <markel> zakim, take up item 2
14:34:23 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TC Debriefing (25m)" taken up [from all via sharper]
14:34:40 <shawn> zakim, [IPcaller] is DavidSloan
14:34:40 <Zakim> +DavidSloan; got it
14:35:12 <markel> SH: How you (DS & SLH) feel about the symposium?
14:36:25 <shawn> q+ to ask (at the end of the discussion) about the report input
14:36:28 <markel> DS: it went well, the flow was good. The transcript+logs and extra comments will help to write a draft of the research note.
14:36:32 <shadi> q+
14:36:34 <sloandr> sloandr has joined #rd
14:36:37 <sharper> ack sha
14:37:31 <shadi> q- shawn
14:37:36 <shadi> q+
14:37:48 <markel> SLH: I appreciate the work of DS and the work we did together. We could effectively use more time. It's gonna be interesting to see how E4R will manage in 3 hours.
14:38:31 <sloandr> +1 to shawn
14:38:35 <shadi> ack me
14:38:35 <markel> SLH: it is interesting to see how active was the IRC chat. Note that the IRC chat is timestamped while the transcript it isn't. It'd be great to put both together.
14:38:36 <sharper> ack sha
14:38:48 <shawn> q+ to ask (NOT NOW - at the end of the discussion) about the report input
14:40:15 <sloandr> q+
14:40:38 <markel> SAZ: kudos to SLH and DS. I am happy to see how well DS started in the group. I know that SLH and DS did a lot of work behind the scenes. I am looking forward to the guidance of good practices that can emerge from this experience so that future symposia can benefit from them.
14:40:41 <kmatausc> kmatausc has joined #rd
14:40:49 <sharper> ack shaw
14:40:49 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask (NOT NOW - at the end of the discussion) about the report input
14:40:58 <shawn> q+ to ask (NOT NOW - at the end of the discussion) about the report input
14:40:59 <sharper> ack sloan
14:41:57 <peter> peter has joined #rd
14:42:55 <markel> DS: just wanted to emphasise the need to balance a predefined structure that will shape the research note and the flow of the discussion. It is key to have a look to the coverage of the submissions and how it fit with the topics we deal with.
14:43:17 <Zakim> +??P33
14:43:25 <shadi> q+
14:43:32 <markel> SH: I think it was really good: it was more conversational than discursive.
14:43:32 <shawn> q- later
14:44:07 <sharper> ack shadi
14:44:09 <Zakim> +??P34
14:44:10 <shadi> ack me
14:44:14 <markel> SH: it was therefore easy to follow and may have increased the amount of comments in the IRC, making it more participatory.
14:44:24 <peter> Zakim, ??p34 is me
14:44:24 <Zakim> +peter; got it
14:44:32 <peter> Zakim, mute me
14:44:33 <Zakim> peter should now be muted
14:44:36 <kmatausc> Zakim, ??p33 is me
14:44:36 <Zakim> +kmatausc; got it
14:46:06 <shawn> [ advanced planning: where do we want the discussion to go - objectives, goals for what we want for output of the discussion ]
14:46:16 <markel> SAZ: different symposia have different style which may differ depending on the goal of each symposia. It was pretty clear that a clear line was being followed between the questions that arose on the fly and the ones already established. This responsiveness is good to have and can be planned if the goal is more exploratory.
14:46:24 <sharper> q?
14:46:29 <sharper> zakim, q?
14:46:29 <Zakim> I see shawn on the speaker queue
14:46:46 <markel> q+
14:46:52 <sharper> ack mark
14:48:02 <shawn> Markel: as said in mail, good. lots of effort to organize. went smoothly. personal preference: fewer people taking part.
14:48:08 <shadi> q+
14:48:11 <shawn> ... somewhat confusing
14:48:14 <shawn> q- later
14:48:36 <sharper> ack shadi
14:48:36 <shawn> ... congratulate Shawn, Dave, Shadi
14:49:42 <shawn> zakim, who is making noise?
14:49:47 <sharper> q+
14:49:52 <markel> SAZ: there is some benefit in having a smaller group but this requires to have the right people.
14:49:53 <Zakim> shawn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: shadi (84%), sharper (9%), kmatausc (91%)
14:49:54 <shawn> q- later
14:50:28 <markel> I meant the number of presenters rather than the people taking part.
14:51:16 <markel> q+
14:51:48 <shawn> q- later
14:53:34 <shawn> zakim, who is making noise?
14:53:45 <Zakim> shawn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: sharper (51%), kmatausc (43%)
14:53:51 <markel> SH: is there any way to ask about the involvement of participants?
14:54:02 <shawn> zakim, mute kmatausc
14:54:02 <Zakim> kmatausc should now be muted
14:54:15 <kmatausc> Zakim, mute me
14:54:15 <Zakim> kmatausc was already muted, kmatausc
14:54:21 <kmatausc> soory
14:54:26 <kmatausc> sorry
14:54:28 <markel> SH: so that we make the most of our resources
14:54:48 <markel> SH: maybe we could try that for the E2R
14:55:13 <sharper> zakim, q?
14:55:13 <Zakim> I see sharper, markel, shawn on the speaker queue
14:55:18 <sharper> ack simon
14:55:21 <sharper> ack markel
14:55:26 <shadi> [try it informally -> not announced publicly]
14:55:52 <sharper> [sure - lets just the core group try it]
14:56:08 <shawn> Markel: clarify - less people speaking. open to lots of (non-speaking) participants
14:56:10 <sharper> ack sharper
14:56:15 <markel> SH: any other question?
14:56:15 <shawn> ack me
14:56:15 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask (NOT NOW - at the end of the discussion) about the report input
14:56:22 <sharper> ack shawn
14:56:39 <shadi> q+
14:57:07 <sharper> ack shadi
14:57:14 <markel> SLH: one of my questions about the report is: how much should papers and discussion inform the report?
14:58:10 <shawn> s/how much should papers and discussion inform the report?/how much should the papers and discussion define the report? versus how much additional research should we incorporate?/
14:58:19 <markel> SAZ: initially, we said that text customisation and E4R were related and the report would go together but we still haven't made a decision about that. It will depend on the outcomes of the next symposium.
14:58:42 <sloandr> q+
14:58:47 <sharper> ack david
14:58:52 <peter> q+
14:59:02 <sharper> ack sloan
14:59:08 <markel> SAZ: regarding SLH's question, in previous notes editors were quite knowledgeable about the topic but generally the edition of the research note should mainly get the input from the symposium.
14:59:22 <Zakim> -peter
15:00:06 <markel> DS: in terms of drafting it will be easier if we have a close relationship with E2R
15:01:15 <shawn> s/in terms of drafting it will be easier if we have a close relationship with E2R/probably better to have separate reports, yet clearly relate them to each other/
15:01:39 <Zakim> +??P39
15:01:44 <peter> Zakim, p39 is me
15:01:44 <Zakim> sorry, peter, I do not recognize a party named 'p39'
15:01:53 <peter> Zakim, ??p39 is me
15:01:53 <Zakim> +peter; got it
15:01:58 <markel> SH: I agree with SAZ, the symposium should feed the note but the intro, background or conclusions can add questions that were not raised in the symposium.
15:02:01 <sharper> ack pete
15:03:03 <peter> Zakim, mute me
15:03:03 <Zakim> peter should now be muted
15:03:23 <shadi> q+
15:03:29 <sharper> ack shadi
15:03:31 <shawn> q+ to ask for draft of mobile report to see how it is looking for input into the tc4r notes...
15:03:32 <shadi> ack me
15:03:53 <markel> PT: we have a number of notes coming up…do we want to keep the current structure or we prefer a more flexible view on it?
15:04:59 <shawn> ack me
15:04:59 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask for draft of mobile report to see how it is looking for input into the tc4r notes...
15:05:00 <markel> SAZ: keeping consistency would be better.
15:05:02 <sharper> ack shawn
15:05:26 <peter> (ambitious :-)
15:05:48 <markel> SLH: we have started working on the note so that we can look at the mobile note at the same time.
15:06:35 <peter> perfecto!
15:06:37 <markel> SH: regarding the mobile note, it should be ready reasonably soon.
15:07:09 <peter> We still have some editing to do etc.
15:07:24 <peter> but so long as the note is sean as draft
15:08:00 <shawn> q+ asks to see rough draft asap - to help inform the tc4r report writing next week
15:08:18 <shawn> q+ to ask to see rough draft asap - to help inform the tc4r report writing next week :-)
15:08:20 <shawn> q- asks
15:09:20 <markel> SH: regarding the Mobile note we have the roadmap meeting where some experts will give some input. I wish forthcoming notes would do something similar
15:09:23 <shawn> q-
15:09:31 <markel> SH: we will share the Mobile note by Friday
15:09:57 <markel> SLH: that'd be great so that we can look at both notes together
15:10:00 <sloandr> thankyou simon
15:11:01 <markel> zakim, next item
15:11:01 <Zakim> agendum 3. "E2R Final Preparation (35m)" taken up [from klaus]
15:11:09 <Klaus> zakim, unmute me
15:11:09 <Zakim> Klaus should no longer be muted
15:11:11 <shawn> zakim, mute me
15:11:11 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
15:13:41 <shadi> q+
15:13:49 <markel> KM: I do hope that most of the things are said, the agenda is out there; thanks Shadi. We have prepared the questions; we will be under pressure considering the amount of people taking part but we are going to target specific presenters with specific questions as it was done in the previous symposium.
15:14:10 <markel> SH: is all in place so far?
15:14:18 <kmatausc> q+
15:14:27 <shadi> q- later
15:15:01 <markel> KM:  everything is under control and has been taken into account. We have good materials from DS and SLH to prepare our discussion. It won't be very different from the previous event,
15:15:07 <sharper> ack shadi
15:15:14 <kmatausc> Zakim, unmume
15:15:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmume', kmatausc
15:15:19 <sharper> ack km
15:15:21 <kmatausc> Zakim, unmute me
15:15:21 <Zakim> kmatausc was not muted, kmatausc
15:15:26 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
15:15:26 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
15:16:16 <markel> KeM: i wonder whether all panelists have registered as it is seems we are full
15:16:24 <kmatausc> zakim, mute me
15:16:24 <Zakim> kmatausc should now be muted
15:16:52 <Zakim> -peter
15:16:58 <markel> SAZ: I'll send you the list of participants; we'll make sure we will assign a line to panelists.
15:17:23 <Zakim> +??P13
15:17:27 <peter> Zakim, ?p13 is me
15:17:27 <Zakim> sorry, peter, I do not recognize a party named '?p13'
15:17:35 <peter> Zakim, ??p13 is me
15:17:35 <Zakim> +peter; got it
15:17:43 <peter> Zakim, mute me
15:17:43 <Zakim> peter should now be muted
15:17:44 <Klaus> zakim, unmute me
15:17:45 <Zakim> Klaus should no longer be muted
15:17:48 <markel> SAZ: I have been seen some questions from Andrea, it was a little bit of confusion about  the agenda and timing. I want to make sure that everything is ready for that.
15:18:42 <markel> KM: we will stick to the outline of the agenda, which is online now. We will frame our questions according to this agenda.
15:19:13 <shawn> zakim, who is noisy?
15:19:14 <sharper> zakim, who is making noise?
15:19:18 <markel> the noise in the background is terrible!
15:19:24 <Zakim> shawn, listening for 11 seconds I could not identify any sounds
15:19:37 <Zakim> sharper, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
15:19:47 <shawn> zakim, who is muted?
15:19:47 <Zakim> I see annika, Shawn, kmatausc, peter muted
15:20:04 <markel> SAZ: regarding logistics, are there any questions?
15:20:20 <markel> I can barely hear anything
15:20:21 <Zakim> -annika
15:20:33 <shawn> zakim, who is making noise?
15:20:44 <Zakim> shawn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: shadi (47%)
15:20:48 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
15:20:48 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
15:21:05 <markel> :-D
15:21:34 <Zakim> +??P18
15:21:44 <shawn> q+
15:21:54 <annika> zakim, ??P18 is me
15:21:54 <Zakim> +annika; got it
15:22:02 <Klaus> zakim, unmute me
15:22:02 <Zakim> Klaus should no longer be muted
15:22:03 <annika> zakim. mute me
15:22:10 <annika> zakim, mute me
15:22:10 <Zakim> annika should now be muted
15:22:12 <markel> SAZ: we will be opening the lines 1 hour before so that authors can test the lines. Let me know if you have any request.
15:22:17 <kmatausc> yes, we invited the authors to log in 1 hour before the symposiustarts
15:23:06 <markel> KM: I wonder if there is any support for muting/unmuting
15:24:05 <shawn> q+ to note that we were 10 mins late due to particiaptns joining :(
15:24:20 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
15:24:20 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
15:24:25 <markel> SAZ: the captioning will be provided, it will run in parallel. I'll do the muting and unmuting in the backchannel, actually this one #rd
15:24:42 <markel> SAZ: the front channel will be the public channel
15:24:49 <sloandr> q+ re using the transcript
15:25:03 <Klaus> zakim, unmute me
15:25:03 <Zakim> Klaus should no longer be muted
15:25:13 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
15:25:13 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
15:25:17 <sharper> zakim, q?
15:25:17 <Zakim> I see shawn, sloandr on the speaker queue
15:25:19 <shawn> ack me
15:25:20 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to note that we were 10 mins late due to particiaptns joining :(
15:25:23 <sharper> ack shawn
15:25:41 <peter> unrelated side question encase I forget: do we have the transcripts from the mobile symposium?
15:26:10 <shadi> q+ to remind to keep reminding people about how they can raise their hands
15:26:13 <markel> SLH: in our case we were still 10 minutes late bc participants were late joining. We may have a official starting time 10min before
15:26:26 <sharper> ack sloan
15:26:26 <Zakim> sloandr, you wanted to discuss using the transcript
15:27:09 <Klaus> queue+
15:27:18 <shawn> +1 to live captioning being very helpful for many people - chairs, participants, etc
15:27:19 <markel> DS:  the transcript is of such a good quality that makes it very helpful resource (a side effect of having an accessible event).
15:28:32 <markel> SAZ: a tip to KM and KeM: remind --constantly-- participants how to raise their hands.
15:28:35 <sloandr> +1 to shadi
15:28:36 <Klaus> zakim, unmute me
15:28:36 <Zakim> Klaus should no longer be muted
15:28:40 <sharper> ack klaus
15:28:45 <sharper> zakim, q?
15:28:45 <Zakim> I see shadi on the speaker queue
15:28:56 <sharper> ack Shadi
15:28:56 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to remind to keep reminding people about how they can raise their hands
15:29:29 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
15:29:29 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
15:29:50 <Klaus> zakim, unmute me
15:29:50 <Zakim> Klaus should no longer be muted
15:30:41 <markel> KM: i was wondering if it is appropriate to say that we start the agenda of 2 hours after the 10 minutes.
15:30:53 <markel> SAZ: there is still a buffer of 10 minutes in the end.
15:31:28 <markel> SLH: I was suggesting to start 10 minutes earlier
15:31:49 <markel> KM: then we would need 2 hours + 15 minutes
15:32:07 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
15:32:07 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
15:32:35 <Zakim> -peter
15:32:59 <markel> SH: it might be a good test for the future. It's purely up to you: if you think this is the best way to run the symposium this is the way to proceed.
15:33:25 <markel> SH: any other business?
15:33:41 <sloandr> q+
15:33:42 <markel> SAZ: good luck KM, KeM and Andrea
15:33:55 <markel> SAZ: I'm looking forward to it
15:34:01 <Klaus> am very nervous already (-: thanks for help
15:34:06 <kmatausc> we will need luck ;) thank you
15:34:23 <sharper> ack sloandr
15:34:34 <peter> buena suerte :)
15:34:39 <markel> DS: are we having a telconf next wednesday?
15:34:52 <markel> SH: it might be a good idea to keep the momentum
15:35:20 <Zakim> -Klaus
15:35:24 <markel> SH: I'll send the agenda out and see what happens
15:35:25 <Zakim> -shadi
15:35:26 <kmatausc> cu
15:35:26 <Zakim> -annika
15:35:29 <markel> markel has left #rd
15:35:29 <Zakim> -Shawn
15:35:34 <Zakim> -markel
15:35:35 <Zakim> -sharper
15:35:36 <Zakim> -kmatausc
15:35:44 <sloandr> sloandr has left #rd
15:36:30 <Zakim> -DavidSloan
15:36:32 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
15:36:32 <Zakim> Attendees were shadi, annika, Klaus, Shawn, sharper, markel, DavidSloan, peter, kmatausc
15:37:13 <shadi> tracktbot, end meeting
15:38:59 <shawn> shawn has left #rd