16:03:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
16:03:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/28-forms-irc
16:03:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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16:03:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
16:03:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
16:03:09 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
16:03:09 <trackbot> Date: 28 November 2012
16:03:25 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Nov/0027.html
16:03:37 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Nov/0027
16:03:44 <Steven> Chair: Steven
16:03:51 <Steven> Regrets: Philip
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16:33:39 <nvdbleek1> zakim, code?
16:33:40 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek1
16:34:04 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
16:34:11 <Zakim> +??P46
16:34:16 <Steven> zakim, I am ?
16:34:16 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
16:34:51 <Zakim> + +1.323.425.aaaa
16:35:07 <nvdbleek1> zakim, I am +1.323.4
16:35:07 <Zakim> +nvdbleek1; got it
16:35:19 <nvdbleek1> zakm, who is here?
16:35:53 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:36:15 <alain> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
16:36:15 <Zakim> ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
16:37:02 <Zakim> +Erik
16:37:32 <nvdbleek1> scribe: nvdbleek1
16:37:41 <Steven> Topic: Meetings next month
16:37:45 <nvdbleek1> Topic: Meetings next month
16:38:01 <nvdbleek1> Steven: I take december off
16:38:14 <nvdbleek1> Steven: I'm willing to come to calls
16:38:32 <nvdbleek1> Steven: We need to get XForms 2.0 to LC
16:39:26 <nvdbleek1> Steven: Nobody in the community list responded
16:39:31 <Steven> * Topic: XForms 2.0 proto Last call draft
16:39:31 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Nov/0025.html
16:40:16 <nvdbleek1> Steven: We need people in the group to agree to go forward
16:40:27 <Steven> Diff version http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Drafts/WD-xforms20-20130117/Overview-diff.html
16:40:40 <nvdbleek1> Steven: anyone have feelings about this
16:41:00 <nvdbleek1> Erik: I have to go through the changes
16:41:40 <nvdbleek1> nvdbleek1: We have couple of issues that still need to be addressed
16:41:46 <Steven> * Topic: Element name for specifying properties on dispatch action
16:41:46 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Nov/0023.html
16:42:00 <Steven> s/* Topic/Topic/G
16:42:36 <nvdbleek1> Steven: We called this property, at the time some people didn't liked the name that much
16:43:09 <nvdbleek1> Steven: This is the last change to propose a different name, if nobody responds it will be property
16:43:25 <nvdbleek1> alain: It is already implemented as property in xsltforms
16:43:36 <Steven> Topic: Lighter syntax for the function element
16:43:36 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Nov/0024.html
16:44:47 <nvdbleek1> nvdbleek1: It was mainly Erik wanting a shorter syntax
16:44:55 <nvdbleek1> Erik: Will have a look at it
16:45:14 <Steven> Topic: Format token parameter on serialize
16:45:14 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Nov/0012.html
16:46:11 <nvdbleek1> nvdbleek1: I'm a bit concerned about the format parameter on serialize() and parse()[2] functions, because I think that the format token only allows boolean properties.
16:46:25 <nvdbleek1> .. And on the submission element and xslt output options you have properties that take other type of values.
16:47:48 <nvdbleek1> Erik: It's on my list, will try to look at this today
16:48:35 <Steven> I think it would be good to have another, fuller, example for the serialize section
16:49:17 <nvdbleek1> nvdbleek1: In XSLT they have an element syntax, they re-use the output element
16:49:38 <nvdbleek1> erik: The xslt way feels a bit hacky
16:49:54 <nvdbleek1> erik: In javascript you just pass an object
16:50:45 <nvdbleek1> erik: In the future the closest we can get will be the map construct
16:51:23 <nvdbleek1> alain: I'm wondering what the use case is today
16:53:57 <nvdbleek1> alain: Because I only implemented the version without parameters in xslt forms
16:54:45 <nvdbleek1> alain: maybe we can leave it implementation defined
16:55:13 <nvdbleek1> Steven: Is this taken from XPath 3.0
16:56:46 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions-30/#func-serialize
16:57:17 <Steven> Example:
16:57:18 <Steven> <output:serialization-parameters>
16:57:18 <Steven>   <output:omit-xml-declaration>yes</output:omit-xml-declaration>
16:57:18 <Steven> </output:serialization-parameters>
16:58:50 <nvdbleek1> We are discussing the the xpath3 version
16:59:39 <nvdbleek1> Erik: The indirection is not ideal, but until we have the map in xpath the element is the best solution
17:02:58 <nvdbleek1> Steven: I imagine that it is very irritating that you have to create the element if you want to specify the serialisation parameters
17:04:51 <nvdbleek1> Erik: The main drawback is not being compatible to XPath 3.0
17:06:40 <nvdbleek1> Steven: The usage of serialization function is to transform the XML to string, couldn't we use a submission for this
17:06:59 <nvdbleek1> nvdbleek1: A function should be pure
17:07:37 <nvdbleek1> Steven: Couldn't we point to a submission and ignore certain parameters
17:08:17 <nvdbleek1> Erik: We should disable a lot in submission: revalidation, sending events
17:08:49 <nvdbleek1> Steven: It should just point to a submission and take the parameters from a submission
17:09:50 <nvdbleek1> Erik: That is the approach xslt takes, it uses the ouput element. But the drawback is that we are discarding a lot attributes
17:10:13 <nvdbleek1> Steven: The drawback of a different element is that we have to keep the elements in sync
17:11:10 <nvdbleek1> Erik: It uses only the serialisation part of the submission, which is only a small subset
17:11:44 <nvdbleek1> Steven: The author already knows how to do this with submission
17:12:28 <nvdbleek1> Topic: target/targetid on load and submission
17:12:34 <nvdbleek1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Nov/0008.html
17:13:25 <Steven> Moot.
17:13:39 <nvdbleek1> nvdbleek1: This issue is no longer valid, I should remove the target attribute
17:14:04 <nvdbleek1> ACTION: Remove the target attribute from the submission element because we don't have load embed anymore
17:14:04 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find Remove. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.
17:15:10 <Zakim> -Steven
17:15:11 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
17:15:11 <Zakim> -nvdbleek1
17:15:20 <Zakim> -Erik
17:15:21 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
17:15:21 <Zakim> Attendees were Steven, +1.323.425.aaaa, nvdbleek1, [IPcaller], Erik
17:15:28 <Steven> ACTION: Nick to Remove the target attribute from the submission element because we don't have load embed anymore
17:15:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1915 - Remove the target attribute from the submission element because we don't have load embed anymore [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2012-12-05].
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17:15:50 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
17:15:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/28-forms-minutes.html Steven
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