14:59:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:59:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-sparql-irc
14:59:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:40 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
14:59:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
14:59:42 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:43 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:59:43 <trackbot> Date: 27 November 2012
14:59:44 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
14:59:44 <Zakim> ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started
14:59:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:59:56 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
14:59:56 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:00:16 <Zakim> +??P12
15:00:21 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P12 is me
15:00:21 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
15:00:23 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aaaa
15:00:24 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
15:00:24 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted
15:00:32 <kasei> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:00:32 <Zakim> +kasei; got it
15:00:38 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
15:00:38 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted
15:00:38 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
15:00:51 <Zakim> +??P11
15:00:59 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P11 is me
15:01:00 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
15:01:08 <Zakim> + +1.617.553.aabb
15:01:12 <LeeF> zakim, aabb is me
15:01:12 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
15:01:49 <LeeF> LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0176.html
15:01:52 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:01:55 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, cbuilara (muted), kasei (muted), bglimm, LeeF, Sandro
15:02:23 <Zakim> +??P27
15:02:51 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
15:03:00 <LeeF> zakim, ??P27 is SteveH
15:03:00 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
15:03:06 <AndyS> zakim, P27 is SteveH
15:03:06 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'P27'
15:03:07 <LeeF> topic: Admin
15:03:12 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-11-20
15:03:46 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-11-20
15:03:52 <Zakim> +MattPerry
15:03:59 <LeeF> Regrets: AxelPolleres, Bglimm (partial)
15:04:16 <Zakim> +Chimezie
15:04:25 <LeeF> Next meeting is December 4th, same time
15:04:33 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
15:04:33 <Zakim> Chimezie should now be muted
15:04:38 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
15:04:39 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
15:04:47 <bglimm> ZAkim, unmute me
15:04:47 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
15:04:51 <LeeF> topic: Entailment Regimes
15:05:02 <LeeF> close ACTION-721
15:05:02 <trackbot> ACTION-721 Make a list of unapproved Entailment test cases passed by at least two implementations. closed
15:05:18 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0159.html
15:05:43 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-entailment
15:05:50 <bglimm> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-entailment
15:07:27 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve all tests listed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0159.html
15:07:31 <LeeF> LeeF: Any new EARL?
15:07:32 <bglimm> +1
15:07:38 <LeeF> bglimm: yes, but we can approve mroe tests next week
15:07:44 <chimezie> +1
15:07:48 <LeeF> LeeF: does list only include tests not approved so far?
15:07:50 <LeeF> bglimm: yes
15:08:04 <kasei> 0 (not swapped in)
15:08:12 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve all tests listed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0159.html
15:08:31 <LeeF> ACTION: Birte to mark tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0159.html as approved
15:08:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-722 - Mark tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0159.html as approved [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-12-04].
15:08:33 <pgearon> pgearon has joined #sparql
15:09:20 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
15:09:20 <Zakim> Chimezie should no longer be muted
15:09:21 <Zakim> +pgearon
15:11:16 <bglimm> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0181.html
15:11:25 <bglimm> Now my mail is in the archive, see above
15:11:28 <LeeF> bglimm: in communication with several implementers about the vcarious "at risk" entailment regimes, hoping to get results within the next couple of weeks so we can make final decision on at-risk sections
15:12:11 <LeeF> topic: entailment regimes
15:12:29 <LeeF> summary: Approve more tests based on updated EARL next week; continue to closely monitor implementers' progress on at-risk sections
15:12:30 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
15:12:30 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
15:12:38 <LeeF> topic: Graph-store Protocol
15:12:49 <LeeF> close ACTION-717
15:12:49 <trackbot> ACTION-717 Prepare a list of tst cases from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/http-rdf-update/ by next Telco which at least 2implementations pass. closed
15:13:08 <LeeF> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0174.html
15:13:36 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-http-rdf-update
15:14:07 <LeeF> Chime's list of tests is based on correspondence with Andy + existing EARL from Akamu
15:14:34 <LeeF> LeeF: Andy, are you ok with the tests?
15:14:40 <LeeF> AndyS: Yes, AND I pass them
15:14:57 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve GSP tests listed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0174.html
15:15:08 <kasei> +1
15:15:27 <AndyS> +1
15:15:29 <pgearon> +1
15:15:31 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve GSP tests listed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0174.html
15:15:42 <LeeF> ACTION: chimezie to mark tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0174.html as approved
15:15:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-723 - Mark tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0174.html as approved [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-12-04].
15:16:00 <Zakim> -bglimm
15:16:05 <LeeF> LeeF: Any expectations of additional implementations in the next week or two?
15:16:16 <LeeF> chimezie: I don't believe so, only possible one would be Callimachus, but unlikely
15:17:52 <LeeF> LeeF: What's the status with the 3 tests that Akamu is not passing?
15:17:56 <LeeF> chimezie: they all deal with empty graphs
15:18:12 <LeeF> LeeF: is this an issue for us with respect to spec conformance?
15:18:44 <LeeF> http-rdf-update/manifest#get_of_put__empty_graph
15:19:53 <LeeF> chimezie: GSP refers developers to Update for treatment of empty graphs
15:20:08 <LeeF> chimezie: empty graphs are not a feature of GSP, as notion of empty graph doesn't make sense in all cases for HTTP
15:20:38 <LeeF> LeeF: As long as there are not specific conformance criteria in GSP that these tests line up with, let's leave them unapproved
15:20:40 <LeeF> sandro: I agree
15:21:39 <LeeF> summary: We believe GSP to now be in a steady state with respect to advancing to PR
15:22:15 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
15:22:15 <Zakim> Chimezie should now be muted
15:22:19 <kasei> Zakim, unmute me
15:22:19 <Zakim> kasei should no longer be muted
15:22:20 <LeeF> topic: protocol
15:23:04 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
15:23:04 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted
15:23:07 <LeeF> LeeF: Confirm that we have no additioanl expectation of tests to approve or new implementation reports for protocol in the next couple of weeks?
15:23:10 <LeeF> kasei: i believe that is correct
15:23:23 <LeeF> topic: update
15:23:45 <LeeF> ACTION-720?
15:23:45 <trackbot> ACTION-720 -- Paul Gearon to write a mail summarizing unapproved update test cases -- due 2012-11-27 -- OPEN
15:23:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/720
15:24:59 <LeeF> LeeF: Any chance to complete ACTION-720 this week?
15:25:01 <LeeF> pgearon: unlikely
15:25:14 <LeeF> LeeF: we should look for someone else - is this about the tests that did not make it into the test suite before the PR vote for Update?
15:25:16 <LeeF> pgearon: I think so
15:25:55 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to talk to Axel about taking care of unapproved tests for update
15:25:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-724 - Talk to Axel about taking care of unapproved tests for update [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-12-04].
15:27:18 <LeeF> ericP, can you join us?
15:27:52 <LeeF> <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/delete/manifest#dawg-delete-07 says that the result is delete-post-01f.ttl
15:27:52 <LeeF> <ericP> i can't justify that, but i can if it's delete-post-01s.ttl
15:29:05 <kasei> details are here: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#delete-dawg-delete-07
15:29:28 <Zakim> +EricP
15:31:27 <LeeF> LeeF: test delete-07 is as is because ?p and ?o are unbound so nothing is deleted
15:31:43 <LeeF> AndyS: if it was "DELETE WHERE { ... } "  then it would do as you say, Eric, but it's not
15:31:49 <LeeF> ericP: OK
15:35:02 <LeeF> (discussion of trailing zeroes in decimals)
15:35:30 <ericP> aggregates/agg-avg-02.srx <literal datatype="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#decimal">2.0</literal>
15:35:39 <LeeF> LeeF: ericP, will you have EARL for us in the near future?
15:35:42 <LeeF> ericP: yes
15:35:46 <LeeF> LeeF: for which parts of SPARQL 1.1?
15:36:20 <LeeF> ericP: query, update, CSV/TSV, JSON
15:36:59 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
15:36:59 <Zakim> Chimezie should no longer be muted
15:37:50 <chimezie> http://metacognition.info/gsp_validation/gsp.validator.form  (GSP validator)
15:37:53 <kasei> oops. I broke the protocol validator.
15:38:04 <kasei> when I fix it momentarily, it will be here: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/protocol_validator
15:38:16 <chimezie> Conneg on request to get back EARL
15:39:51 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
15:39:51 <Zakim> Chimezie should now be muted
15:41:29 <LeeF> (regular monthly discussion of the vagaries of RDF Datasets in SPARQL and the divide in the world beyond "graph names are entries in a database" and "graph names are GETtable documentnames")
15:43:28 <AndyS> I object to "vagaries" when it's intentional not about loading or finding - it's declarative of what it looks like.
15:43:47 <LeeF> Things can be intentionally vague.
15:44:20 <AndyS> Not "vague" - intentionally not part of.
15:46:02 <LeeF> Andy, I'm not sure what I said that riled you. I think SPARQL is -- and always has been - vague on this topic, particularly when combining what's in the specs with what's in the test suite and the different ways things are handled in implementations. In any case, I'm happy to withdraw my comment(s) from the record if you object to them.
15:49:26 <LeeF> (discussion of what to do about the decimal values)
15:49:35 <AndyS> While I have some sympathy with EricP's position, I think we need to recognize that there are XSD 1.0 implementations as well.
15:49:39 <LeeF> LeeF: not sure we have anyone in the WG wanting to make this change now and re-visit the tests
15:49:57 <LeeF> sandro: perhaps a CG or some other body could take over SPARQL test suite maintenance going forwards
15:54:26 <LeeF> ericP: I think we could do this now without re-running everyone's tests
15:55:24 <Zakim> -Chimezie
15:55:25 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:55:25 <Zakim> -EricP
15:55:26 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:55:26 <Zakim> -pgearon
15:55:26 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:55:27 <Zakim> -MattPerry
15:55:28 <Zakim> -kasei
15:55:29 <Zakim> -cbuilara
15:55:32 <LeeF> LeeF: i'm just not totally comfortable with that, sorry
15:55:36 <LeeF> Adjourned.
15:55:42 <LeeF> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:55:42 <Zakim> -SteveH
15:55:44 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:55:44 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, cbuilara, +1.310.729.aaaa, kasei, bglimm, +1.617.553.aabb, LeeF, Sandro, SteveH, MattPerry, Chimezie, pgearon, EricP
15:58:37 <LeeF> sandro, any idea why https://cgi.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/index.php?title=Chatlog_2012-11-27&redirect=no is giving me 404 after doing https://cgi.w3.org/member-bin/wiki_scribe?group=sparql&go=Use+This+Group seemed ok?
17:58:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sparql