12:36:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mlw-lt
12:36:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc
12:36:25 <fsasaki> meeting: MLW-LT editing call
12:36:32 <fsasaki> chair: felix
12:37:48 <kfritsche> kfritsche has joined #mlw-lt
12:58:46 <fsasaki> present: karl, yves, felix
12:58:50 <Yves_> Yves_ has joined #mlw-lt
12:59:10 <Yves_> present+ Yves_
13:00:13 <fsasaki> topic: work plan / agenda check
13:00:20 <fsasaki> waiting for people to come ...
13:00:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:03:51 <fsasaki> present+ dave
13:05:19 <fsasaki> topic: Global rules for provenance discussion
13:05:37 <fsasaki> basis for discussion is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0186.html
13:05:42 <fsasaki> dave: yves' points are correct
13:05:55 <fsasaki> .. there is no way of writing a global pointer rule which is aware of values in the xliff
13:06:40 <fsasaki> .. even if we could figure out the xpath, you would need something in the rule to filter out things in the phase group that did not map to "revision"
13:06:59 <fsasaki> .. because you cannot differentiate phase groups in the way needed
13:07:09 <fsasaki> present+ david
13:07:20 <fsasaki> dave: this topic, plus toolsRef issues
13:07:47 <fsasaki> .. plus if you want to do mapping between phase group and rules, you need more than pointer rules
13:07:55 <fsasaki> .. I'd say let's get rid of pointer rules
13:08:00 <fsasaki> .. appart of standoff pointers
13:08:07 <dF> dF has joined #mlw-lt
13:08:44 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#provenance-global
13:08:52 <fsasaki> "provenanceRecordsRefPointer"
13:09:36 <daveL> daveL has joined #mlw-lt
13:11:02 <fsasaki> everything else would be deleted. That is: "personPointer, personRefPointer, orgPointer, orgRefPointer, toolPointer, toolRefPointer, revPersonPointer, revPersonRefPointer, revOrgPointer, revOrgRefPointer, revToolPointer, revToolRefPointer and provRefPointer"
13:12:02 <fsasaki> action: jirka to take http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02 for the ITS 2.0 schema into account
13:12:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-325 - Take http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02 for the ITS 2.0 schema into account [on Jirka Kosek - due 2012-12-04].
13:12:05 <pnietoca> pnietoca has joined #mlw-lt
13:12:26 <fsasaki> present+ jirka
13:13:29 <pnietoca> present+ pnietoca
13:13:36 <pnietoca> sorry i'm late
13:14:43 <Jirka> Jirka has joined #mlw-lt
13:15:00 <fsasaki> topic:  http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#notation-terminology
13:18:21 <fsasaki> drop relax ng namespace, not used in the spec
13:19:27 <fsasaki> added html namespace
13:20:42 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-schemalanguage
13:21:27 <fsasaki> dropping complete section
13:22:09 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-datacat
13:23:41 <fsasaki> "The concept of a data category is independent of its implementation in an XML environment" > The concept of a data category is independent of its implementation in an XML and HTML environment"
13:24:24 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-selection
13:24:48 <fsasaki> "parts of an XML document " > "parts of an XML or HTML document"
13:26:56 <fsasaki> "Selection relies on the information that is given in the XML Information Set [XML Infoset]. ITS applications MAY implement inclusion mechanisms such as XInclude or DITA's [DITA 1.0] conref."
13:27:29 <fsasaki> drop the paragraph
13:28:50 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage
13:29:18 <fsasaki> action: felix to update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage
13:29:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-326 - Update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-04].
13:31:32 <fsasaki> action-326: not needed, handled during editing call
13:31:32 <trackbot> ACTION-326 Update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage notes added
13:31:37 <fsasaki> close action-326
13:31:37 <trackbot> ACTION-326 Update list or IRI attributes at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage closed
13:33:36 <fsasaki> dropped attribute list, reffering now only to RELAX NG schema and the anyURI data types
13:33:40 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance
13:34:54 <fsasaki> make sure that everything will say "HTML" or "HTML5"?
13:35:14 <fsasaki> jirka: w3c working group said they will use html versioning
13:35:26 <fsasaki> .. to avoid perception that ITS cannot be applied to HTML6
13:35:42 <fsasaki> david: future proof is good
13:35:50 <fsasaki> .. but it is not valid HTML4
13:35:57 <fsasaki> .. you could say "HTML5 and higher"
13:36:34 <fsasaki> karl: could say HTML and in an introduction we say "HTML is defined by HTML5 or its successor"
13:40:02 <fsasaki> added a subsection in the terminology section, see www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html##def-html
13:42:31 <fsasaki> topic:  http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance-product-schema
13:43:32 <fsasaki> "[Ed. note: Below statement about schemas is wrong if the ITS schemas will be normative.]": deleting note
13:44:10 <fsasaki> topic:  http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html##conformance-product-processing-expectations
13:44:38 <fsasaki> "[Ed. note: All traces of HTML has to be removed if we will proceed with CT 3 and HTML+ITS CC.]": note from Jirka
13:45:04 <fsasaki> everyone is happy with separate html confirmance type, so can remove note
13:48:14 <fsasaki> deleting all traces of HTML and HTML5 in this section, since there is now a separate conformacne type for html5
13:49:56 <Yves_> https://github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite
13:51:26 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance-product-html-processing-expectations
13:53:26 <fsasaki> discussed "processing expecations" vs "processing requirements", might change terminology (not normative def) during last call
13:55:05 <fsasaki> action: Jirka to go through document and replace HTML5 > HTML
13:55:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-327 - Go through document and replace HTML5 > HTML [on Jirka Kosek - due 2012-12-04].
13:56:18 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#its-processing
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13:58:03 <Yves_> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:58:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html Yves_
13:58:24 <fsasaki_> topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#datacategory-locations
14:00:32 <fsasaki> discussion on "standoff markup", related to "location", but somehow different, not added here
14:05:33 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html##selection-global
14:06:50 <fsasaki> delete ruby mentions throughout section 5.2
14:07:27 <Yves_> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:07:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html Yves_
14:09:20 <fsasaki> "The content model of span permits arbitrary nesting of ruby markup, since the rt element can contain span. An application of ruby, however, MUST not use such arbitrary nesting.": deleted, ruby not needed here
14:12:11 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#selectors
14:16:37 <fsasaki> "The following attributes point to existing information:": deleted pointer attributes not needed anymore
14:17:14 <fsasaki> .. after the "pointer in provenacne" discussion today
14:17:41 <fsasaki> "5.3.3 CSS Selectors"
14:18:17 <fsasaki> "5.3.4 Additional query languages"
14:18:39 <fsasaki> "5.3.5 Variables in selectors"
14:21:33 <fsasaki> topic: "5.4 Link to External Rules"
14:23:48 <fsasaki> action: felix to create example with rules element in sec. 5.4 - due 15 december
14:23:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-328 - create example with rules element in sec. 5.4 [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-15].
14:24:27 <fsasaki> topic: "5.5 Precedence between Selections"
14:26:48 <fsasaki> "Implicit Local selection in documents" > not inherited local selection is meant?
14:29:10 <fsasaki> "Implicit Local selection in documents" > Selection via local ITS markup in documents
14:29:24 <fsasaki> "Implicit Local selection in documents" > Selection via explicit (that is not inherited) local ITS markup in documents
14:31:35 <fsasaki> keep as is, may clarify during LC phase
14:31:37 <pnietoca> the same happens in point 7.5
14:32:13 <pnietoca> so if you're going to change it you have to change both
14:33:30 <fsasaki> tx, pnietoca, will take that into account during LC too
14:33:57 <fsasaki> topic: "5.6 Associating ITS Data Categories with Existing Markup"
14:34:35 <pnietoca> sorry folks I have to leave, besides my microphone it's not working I don't know why!, I'm trying to speak but I can't
14:34:48 <pnietoca> I hope to have it fixed next time
14:34:49 <fsasaki> sure, thanks for being here, pnietoca!
14:35:36 <pnietoca> anyway I 'll send a number of misprints and other things I noticed during the revision
14:35:43 <pnietoca> to the list
14:35:51 <pnietoca> cheers, bye!
14:36:48 <fsasaki> discussing position of sec 7 "Using ITS Markup in HTML5"
14:36:51 <daveL> suggest text for last note in 5.5, change "and these are overridden via local markup." to "which are in turn overridden by local markup"
14:37:37 <fsasaki> done
14:40:19 <fsasaki> sec 7 "Using ITS Markup in HTML5" is now sec 6, old sec 6 is sec 7
14:40:48 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:40:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:42:06 <fsasaki> sec 8 about xhtml now also moved, is new sec 7, old sec 6 is sec 8
14:43:32 <fsasaki> topic: 5.7 Conversion to NIF
14:43:52 <fsasaki> remove mentions of ontology
14:50:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:50:42 <fsasaki> 1 hour break
14:50:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
16:00:50 <Yves_> Sorry: i wasn't able to do diddly-squat on updating the provenance section
16:02:20 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conversion-to-nif
16:04:59 <fsasaki> topic: "5.8 ITS Tools Annotation"
16:09:58 <fsasaki> dave, felix - need a running list of all the MUST statements and make sure that we have a test
16:10:01 <fsasaki> topic: test suite
16:10:53 <fsasaki> "The data category identifier MUST be one of the following identifiers" example of a statement that needs testing to
16:11:17 <fsasaki> action: felix to come up with running list of MUST statements for testing - due december 15
16:11:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-329 - come up with running list of MUST statements for testing [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-15].
16:18:27 <fsasaki> action: felix to move data category identifiers to table in 8.1 Position, Defaults, Inheritance and Overriding of Data Categories
16:18:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-330 - Move data category identifiers to table in 8.1 Position, Defaults, Inheritance and Overriding of Data Categories [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-04].
16:19:39 <fsasaki> replacing lq-issues with lq-issue in identifer list
16:26:57 <Jirka> Jirka has joined #mlw-lt
16:28:48 <fsasaki> "Inline global rules MUST be specified inside script which has type attribute with the value application/xml or application/its+xml. "
16:29:39 <fsasaki> in 6.3 Inline Global Rules in HTML5
16:30:58 <fsasaki> "with the value application/xml or application/its+xml." > "with the value application/its+xml."
16:36:07 <fsasaki> "The script element itself MUST be child of head element." > "The script element itself SHOULD be child of head element."
16:36:37 <fsasaki> 6.4 Standoff Markup in HTML5
16:38:16 <fsasaki> "In HTML5 the standoff markup MUST be stored inside a script element with its id attribute that MUST be set to the same value as the xml:id attribute of the provenanceRecords element it contains." > "In HTML5 the standoff markup MUST be stored inside a script element. It MUST have a type attribute with the value application/its+xml. Its id attribute that MUST be set to the same value as the...
16:38:17 <fsasaki> ...xml:id attribute of the provenanceRecords element it contains."
16:41:07 <fsasaki> same change for lq issue
16:43:15 <fsasaki> "6.5 Precedence between Selections"
16:48:04 <fsasaki> "Note: If identical selections are defined in different rules elements within one document, the selection defined by the last takes precedence.": removing the note in sec. 5.5 Precedence between Selections
16:48:19 <fsasaki> same for 6.5 Precedence between Selections
16:50:22 <fsasaki> added note from XML section 5.5 "ITS does not define precedence related to rules defined or linked based on non-ITS mechanisms (such as processing instructions for linking rules)." to HTML section 6.5
16:51:01 <fsasaki> "7 Using ITS Markup in XHTML"
16:52:35 <fsasaki> action: karl to create xhtml example for 7 Using ITS Markup in XHTML
16:52:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-331 - Create xhtml example for 7 Using ITS Markup in XHTML [on Karl Fritsche - due 2012-12-04].
16:55:16 <fsasaki> topic: next call
16:55:25 <fsasaki> karl could do wed, felix not wed, but thur
16:55:41 <fsasaki> dave from 1-3 p.m. utc
16:55:45 <fsasaki> on thursday
16:55:48 <fsasaki> and wed too
16:56:13 <fsasaki> yves better on wed
16:57:29 <fsasaki> felix on thur 2 p.m. utc - later
16:58:08 <fsasaki> yves: will modify proveance ot remove pointers
16:58:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
16:59:15 <Yves_> Felix: I'll wait until you push the updated spec to CVS to do the provenance. But no rush.
17:00:00 <fsasaki> np, just pushed to cvs
17:00:13 <fsasaki> thanks for the reminder
17:00:43 <Yves_> great. thanks.