15:58:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:58:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-html-a11y-irc
15:58:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:33 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:58:35 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
15:58:35 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 58 minutes ago
15:58:36 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:58:36 <trackbot> Date: 15 November 2012
15:58:43 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
15:58:49 <janina_> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:58:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
15:58:51 <Zakim> +??P9
15:58:52 <IanPouncey> IanPouncey has joined #html-a11y
15:59:01 <janina_> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:59:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P9
15:59:10 <janina_> zakim, ??P9 is Janina
15:59:10 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
15:59:22 <janina_> agenda?
16:00:12 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
16:00:47 <Stevef> agenda+ Longdesc Extension http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/tip/longdesc1/longdesc.html
16:00:48 <Stevef> agenda+ Bug Triage - bugs requiring action http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0036.html
16:00:50 <Stevef> agenda+ Other extensions we expect?
16:00:51 <David> David has joined #html-a11y
16:00:52 <Stevef> agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Text
16:00:54 <Stevef> agenda+ Other Business
16:00:56 <Stevef> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:00:57 <Stevef> agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
16:00:59 <Stevef> agenda+ be done
16:01:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:22 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
16:01:32 <Zakim> +??P22
16:01:43 <Stevef> zakim, P22 is me
16:01:43 <Zakim> sorry, Stevef, I do not recognize a party named 'P22'
16:02:40 <Stevef> zakim, ??P22 is me
16:02:40 <Zakim> +Stevef; got it
16:02:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:02:53 <IanPouncey> Zakim, IPcaller.a is me
16:02:53 <Zakim> +IanPouncey; got it
16:03:15 <chaals> chaals has joined #html-a11y
16:04:04 <Zakim> + +1.415.285.aaaa
16:04:09 <hober> Zakim, aaaa is me
16:04:09 <Zakim> +hober; got it
16:04:25 <chaals> zakim, code?
16:04:25 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), chaals
16:04:35 <janina_> zakim, who's here?
16:04:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, David_MacDonald, [IPcaller], Stevef, IanPouncey, hober
16:04:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see chaals, MikeSmith, David, IanPouncey, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina_, MichaelC_, Stevef, darobin, trackbot, hober
16:04:40 <Zakim> +??P18
16:04:40 <Zakim> +Judy
16:04:58 <chaals> zakim, ??p18 is me
16:04:58 <Zakim> +chaals; got it
16:05:18 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:05:44 <chaals> zakim, who is here?
16:05:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, David_MacDonald, [IPcaller], Stevef, IanPouncey, hober, chaals, Judy
16:05:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see Judy, chaals, MikeSmith, David, IanPouncey, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina_, MichaelC_, Stevef, darobin, trackbot, hober
16:05:56 <Judy> scribe: Judy
16:06:19 <Judy> zakim, take up item 1
16:06:20 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Longdesc Extension http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/tip/longdesc1/longdesc.html" taken up [from Stevef]
16:06:37 <chaals> [chaals has to apologise for not having the longdesc draft updated yet. Will be tonight, but later]
16:07:28 <Stevef> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/tip/longdesc1/longdesc.html
16:08:10 <Judy> JB: link works if decoupled from the quote marks at the end
16:08:24 <Zakim> +??P0
16:08:27 <Judy> SF: We have some feedback already, from Laura, and from me
16:08:37 <Judy> s/me/Steve/
16:08:56 <Judy> SF: Looked through the feedback yet Charles?
16:09:15 <Judy> CMN: Looked all editorial, and anticipated doing it in a few hours, to update it
16:09:36 <Judy> SF: Thx, once you have that done, we'll have another look over it
16:09:52 <Judy> ...and we're not likely to meet next Thurs because of US Thanksgiving
16:10:29 <Judy> JS: Shall we run a consensus call in email to see if we want to request a first public working draft?
16:10:32 <LjW> LjW has joined #html-a11y
16:10:39 <Judy> CMN: Need to update the draft
16:10:46 <Judy> ...but that could be today
16:11:16 <Judy> JS: and we need to do a week's consensus call
16:12:30 <Judy> q+
16:13:53 <Judy> JB: no extension given a significant holiday in one of the countries w/ participants?
16:14:08 <Judy> CMN: this is longer than the previous review process
16:14:15 <Judy> SF: how about the following Monday?
16:14:20 <Judy> JB: sounds better
16:14:40 <Judy> To'C: Apple shut all next week, fyi
16:14:44 <chaals> ACTION: Chaals to publish updated draft and call for consensus running until Monday 26th
16:14:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-146 - Publish updated draft and call for consensus running until Monday 26th [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2012-11-22].
16:14:57 <Stevef> zakim, next item
16:14:57 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Stevef
16:15:05 <chaals> ack judy
16:15:09 <Judy> zakim, take up next item
16:15:09 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Bug Triage - bugs requiring action http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0036.html" taken up [from Stevef]
16:15:22 <David> scribe: David
16:15:39 <David> bug triage
16:16:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
16:16:58 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:17:04 <David> liona: bugs assigned to sub teams... most are "won't fix" or "need more info"... historically "won't fix" not always great reason... need a plan
16:18:04 <Stevef> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?keywords=a11y_canvas%2C%20a11ytf&keywords_type=allwords&resolution=NEEDSINFO&resolution=INVALID&resolution=WONTFIX&bug_status=RESOLVED&product=HTML%20WG&list_id=199
16:18:17 <David> stevef: have some canvas bugs.. asking Rich to look at those... asking Rich if he can help
16:19:05 <David> Rich: 0961 we are not using image maps on canvas... so close it
16:19:34 <David> 248, 249 all that stuff is for rich text editing... moved to HTML.next
16:19:53 <David> Janina: then we should move those to html.next
16:20:05 <David> liona: I can o that tell me what to do
16:20:27 <chaals> s/liona/leonie/
16:20:34 <Stevef> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?keywords=a11y_text-alt%2C%20a11ytf&keywords_type=allwords&resolution=NEEDSINFO&resolution=INVALID&resolution=WONTFIX&bug_status=RESOLVED&product=HTML%20WG&list_id=2001
16:20:41 <chaals> s/liona/leonie/
16:21:19 <David> Steve: for the alt text David and I can look at them next week
16:22:20 <David> Leonie: Janina will will tap John F. on media related ones
16:22:26 <IanPouncey> IanPouncey has joined #html-a11y
16:22:30 <Stevef> general bugs 78 - https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?keywords=a11ytf&keywords_type=allwords&f1=keywords&o1=nowordssubstr&resolution=NEEDSINFO&resolution=INVALID&resolution=WONTFIX&query_format=advanced&bug_status=RESOLVED&v1=a11y_canvas%2C%20a11y_text-alt%2C%20media&product=HTML%20WG&list_id=2002
16:23:22 <David> Stevef: any ideas on what to do with rest of bugs... no response from group...
16:24:18 <David> Judy: asks Leonie for a while bug triage not meeting... do you need people?
16:24:48 <David> leonie: only 2-3 on group... could use help... don't have domain expertise on some of them...
16:25:05 <David> leonie: we'll put together some ideas
16:25:54 <David> Leonie: accesskeys... Jim Allen, kelly ford, user agent folks know about keyboar issues
16:26:36 <David> Judy: will contact them... jeanne spellman also .... one or two meetings for focus walk through...
16:26:43 <David> leonie: that would help
16:27:06 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
16:27:26 <David> michael c: number of bugs with media...
16:27:41 <MichaelC_> text alt and canvas
16:27:45 <MichaelC_> also
16:28:15 <David> s/media/media, alt text, and canvas
16:29:09 <David> Johnf: yes I can help
16:29:31 <chaals> [I will try to attend call to look through accesskey/keyboard bugs]
16:29:57 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
16:30:01 <David> chaals: I will try to attend call to look through accesskey/keyboard bugs
16:30:38 <David> janina: d't believe we can do Accesskey in timeframe
16:30:51 <David> s/d't/don't
16:31:20 <David> chaals: not much to do, not a big issue that we can't make changes
16:31:39 <chaals> [can't make significant changes in 5.0 timeframe, that is]
16:32:41 <David> stevef: most pressing is alt txt adice in html5. call for consensus... still contains contrary guidance on alt
16:32:44 <Stevef> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0046.html
16:33:20 <janina_> q+
16:34:31 <David> stevef: i sent email ... my hat off... goves overview, and what I think options are... normative guidance in spec for alt text... author guidance (not machine check things which is bein sorted out)
16:34:39 <David> s/goves/gives
16:35:05 <Judy> q+
16:35:28 <David> history of group seeking to move out 4.8 guidance, and what I think we could do
16:35:41 <Stevef> ack janina_
16:36:01 <David> janina: need to quickly tlake hold of previous process
16:36:17 <David> s/tlake/take
16:36:30 <Stevef> ack Judy
16:37:40 <David> janina: meet spec editors, assuming they are amenable to remove advice that is in conflict with WCAG
16:38:17 <David> janina: need to schedule meeting, identify ho will meet and those have a telconf beofre hand to prepare
16:38:29 <David> s/beofre/before
16:38:45 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
16:40:16 <David> judy: agree with Janina... noting what steve sent to list... tricky... on behalf of Phillipe I think there are some things that can go forward.. concerned about message that hit the list. invitation to talk with editors
16:41:28 <chaals> [With my chair hat off and my Yandex hat on, I don't mind the spec going through to CR with this, but believe we should raise the issue]
16:41:40 <David> no option to block, but option to resolve it...
16:41:53 <chaals> q+
16:41:57 <David> s/no/Judy: no
16:42:15 <chaals> ack me
16:42:19 <David> Janina: mostly have our ducks in a row
16:43:00 <David> chaarls: taking chair hat off.. no objection going to CR noing this issue is there... but we should fix it in CR... no vale in holding up CR or trying
16:43:09 <David> s/vale/value
16:43:13 <chaals> s/chaarls/chaals/
16:43:22 <chaals> s/vale/value/
16:43:33 <chaals> s/noing/knowing/
16:44:22 <David> Judy: invitation from HTML co-chairsa
16:44:45 <David> chaals: I can do that... organize it and be there...
16:45:18 <Stevef> zakim, next item
16:45:18 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Other extensions we expect?" taken up [from Stevef]
16:45:34 <chaals> ACTION: chaals to organise meeting between co-chairs and HTML editors to see if we can peacefully resolve the alt text guidance issue
16:45:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-147 - Organise meeting between co-chairs and HTML editors to see if we can peacefully resolve the alt text guidance issue [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2012-11-22].
16:46:38 <Stevef> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0044.html
16:47:16 <David> steverf: any movement on that... for 194... ted, do you have any feelings on that... definately interested... it's a 2 year cr period... should get time to do it at some point... but cannot commit
16:48:08 <David> stevef: any further room to merge both proposals
16:48:55 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
16:49:00 <David> ted: tried to get them as close as possible... worth trying... one proposal is better than 5...
16:49:01 <JF> Q+
16:49:13 <Stevef> ack JF
16:49:30 <janina_> q+
16:50:00 <David> johnf: i'm interested in seeing something happen... not immediately... but don't want to let it fall... will work with ted and Sylvia...
16:50:17 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
16:50:56 <David> stevef: that would be great
16:51:43 <David> johnf: will start thinking about it next week...
16:52:00 <David> stevef: a month to get a broad view written down
16:52:06 <Stevef> ack janina
16:53:08 <David> janina: confused... 2 proposals, actually 3, was referred to plan 2014... our control on when and how to act... thought we'd publish each proposal as a working draft to see the uptake...
16:54:23 <David> stevef: not really a good idea to have 2 almost identical proposals out there... better to get one going and bring in ideas of the other... but we need to get something...
16:55:47 <David> steverf: summary... John interested in writing est sec based on his proposal... sylvia not interested... john interest in working with Ted to bring other prosal in
16:55:59 <David> stevef: next step is ext spec from john
16:56:18 <David> judy: how close is ted's to ext spec
16:56:31 <David> ted: detail on each section required
16:57:49 <JF> Q+
16:57:49 <Judy> q+
16:58:12 <Stevef> ack JF
16:58:13 <David> ted: i don't want to pick a due date... it would be fine if someone else did it... if the would collaborate afterwards when I have time.
16:58:57 <David> johnf: concerned about getting bogged down in details of several specs
16:59:01 <Stevef> ack judy
16:59:44 <David> judy: new opportunity... to publish ext spec... can try to do the best we can with issues on the table... it would be really great if we can converge
17:01:14 <David> ted: we did a lot of that... the 2 proposals are close, but bsicdifferences in design... sceptical that we'll get much closer
17:01:44 <David> s/bsicd/basic d
17:02:18 <Judy> s/agree with Janina... noting what steve sent to list... tricky... on behalf of Phillipe I think there are some things that can go forward.. concerned about message that hit the list. invitation to talk with editors/I agree with Janina that the TF should take hold of the option to meet with the HTML5 Editors, and am concerned that the message to the list makes it look there is not that option... I'll reply./
17:02:19 <Judy> s/invitation from HTML co-chairsa/There is an invitation from the HTML WG Co-Chairs to meet with the HTML Editors on the alt guidance bugs./
17:02:19 <David> judy: let's give it a shot..
17:02:29 <Zakim> -hober
17:02:37 <JF> ACTION: JF to do a summary of the 2 competing proposals for Issue 194
17:02:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-148 - Do a summary of the 2 competing proposals for Issue 194 [on John Foliot - due 2012-11-22].
17:02:41 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
17:02:55 <Stevef> RSSagent make minutes
17:02:56 <Zakim> -Janina
17:03:03 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
17:03:05 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
17:03:12 <Zakim> -chaals
17:03:19 <David> zakim, bye
17:03:20 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Janina, David_MacDonald, [IPcaller], Stevef, IanPouncey, +1.415.285.aaaa, hober, Judy, chaals, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger,
17:03:20 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:03:22 <Zakim> ... John_Foliot, Cynthia_Shelly
17:03:34 <David> rrsagent, make log public
17:03:51 <David> rrsagent, make minutes
17:03:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-html-a11y-minutes.html David
17:29:37 <janina_> janina_ has changed the topic to: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference; Thursday 29 November at 16:00Z for 60 minutes
17:29:42 <janina_> janina_ has left #html-a11y
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20:01:31 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
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