14:29:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
14:29:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/14-rd-irc
14:29:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:29:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
14:29:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:29:12 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:29:12 <trackbot> Date: 14 November 2012
14:29:21 <shawn> zakim, who is one the phone?
14:29:21 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, shawn.
14:29:26 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:29:26 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has not yet started, shawn
14:29:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, shawn, Yehya, nonge_, trackbot, Zakim
14:29:35 <annika> annika has joined #rd
14:29:46 <sharper> sharper has joined #rd
14:30:02 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
14:30:08 <sharper> trackbot, start meeting
14:30:08 <sharper> zakim, please clear the agenda
14:30:08 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:30:09 <Zakim> +??P9
14:30:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:30:11 <Zakim> -??P9
14:30:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
14:30:12 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:30:12 <Zakim> Attendees were
14:30:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start now
14:30:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:30:13 <trackbot> Date: 14 November 2012
14:30:17 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
14:30:24 <Zakim> +Shawn
14:30:28 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:30:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shawn
14:30:30 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
14:30:30 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
14:30:30 <sharper> Agenda+ TC Symposium on Monday (10m) (shawn)
14:30:31 <sharper> Agenda+ E2R Symposium Status (10m) (klaus)
14:30:31 <sharper> Agenda+ Next Topic Candidate - "User Modelling" http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/User_modelling (5m) [yehya]
14:30:32 <sharper> Agenda+ Next Topic Candidate - "Accessible Illustration/Diagrams" (5m)
14:30:32 <sharper> [markku]
14:30:32 <sharper> Agenda+ Next Topic Candidate - "Notifications and Interruptions" (5m)
14:30:33 <sharper> [markku]
14:30:33 <sharper> Agenda+ Next Topic Candidate - Any Others / Ready to Vote? (10m) [all]
14:30:33 <sharper> Agenda+ Metrics W3C Note Status (5m)  [markel]
14:30:34 <sharper> Agenda+ Mobile W3C Note Status (5m)  [sharper]
14:30:34 <sharper> Agenda+ Issues and Actions (Standing Item): https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/ [sharper]
14:30:34 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item) [sharper]
14:30:37 <Zakim> +??P9
14:30:40 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
14:30:46 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
14:30:47 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/14-rd-agenda.rdf
14:30:49 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
14:30:51 <markel> markel has joined #rd
14:31:16 <giorgio> giorgio has joined #rd
14:31:25 <sharper> regrets: Klaus, Shadi, Justin, Vivian, Peter
14:31:30 <Zakim> +??P12
14:31:39 <Zakim> +carlos
14:31:41 <annika> zakim, +P9 is annika
14:31:41 <Zakim> sorry, annika, I do not recognize a party named '+P9'
14:31:51 <markel> zakim, ??P12 is markel
14:31:51 <Zakim> +markel; got it
14:31:53 <kerstin_m> kerstin_m has joined #rd
14:32:02 <annika> zakim ??p9 is me
14:32:15 <annika> zakim, ??p9 is me
14:32:15 <Zakim> +annika; got it
14:32:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:32:36 <annika> zakim, mute me
14:32:36 <Zakim> annika should now be muted
14:32:51 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:32:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shawn, annika (muted), markel, carlos, [IPcaller]
14:32:59 <Zakim> +??P14
14:33:01 <Zakim> -??P14
14:33:12 <shawn> zakim, [IPcaller] is DavidSloan
14:33:12 <Zakim> +DavidSloan; got it
14:33:30 <Yehya> zakim, carlos is Yehya
14:33:30 <Zakim> +Yehya; got it
14:33:36 <Zakim> +??P14
14:33:42 <sharper> zakim, ??P14 is sharper
14:33:42 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
14:33:51 <sloandr> sloandr has joined #rd
14:34:05 <Zakim> +??P15
14:34:08 <Zakim> +??P16
14:35:00 <giorgio> zakim, ??p15 is me
14:35:00 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
14:35:12 <kerstin_m> zakim, ??p16 is me
14:35:12 <Zakim> +kerstin_m; got it
14:35:26 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/scribes
14:36:02 <annika> zakim, unmute me
14:36:02 <Zakim> annika should no longer be muted
14:36:29 <shawn> scribe: Annika
14:36:56 <annika> zakim, take up next
14:36:56 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TC Symposium on Monday (10m) (shawn)" taken up [from sharper]
14:37:15 <annika> zakim, mute me
14:37:16 <Zakim> annika should now be muted
14:37:47 <shawn> e-mail with list of questions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Nov/0044.html
14:37:48 <annika> There is a documents with a list of questions for the participants (authors)
14:37:59 <shawn> zakim, who is making noise?
14:38:10 <Zakim> shawn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidSloan (44%), giorgio (4%)
14:38:14 <annika> The questions are assigned to the authors.
14:38:44 <kerstin_m> zakim, mute me
14:38:44 <Zakim> kerstin_m should now be muted
14:39:09 <annika> dave: are there any comments on the list of questions?
14:39:22 <annika> ... additional topics or questions.
14:39:34 <giorgio> [i think i muted my mike, though. i don't understand where the 4% noice come from.]
14:39:42 <annika> ... The list will be circulated to the authors.
14:40:02 <giorgio> zakim, mute me
14:40:02 <Zakim> giorgio should now be muted
14:40:24 <shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/text-customization/Overview.html
14:40:39 <shawn> ^^^ symposium page
14:41:32 <annika> shawn: 57 people have registered for the TC symposium.
14:41:38 <annika> shawn: We will use Zakim.
14:42:32 <annika> simon: Remember that RDWG participants also have to register to participate.
14:42:36 <shawn> Invitation for short contributions to Text Customization for Readability Online Symposium http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Nov/0026.html
14:42:47 <shawn> Additional short contributions are welcome (preferably by Monday 12 November) via e-mail to the publicly-archived mailing list:
14:42:47 <shawn>       <public-wai-rd-comments@w3.org>
14:42:47 <shawn>       with subject starting: "[TC4R Symposium]"
14:43:30 <annika> dave: If you send additional questions, please identify the topic.
14:43:36 <shawn> say where in the agenda your question applies: http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/text-customization/Overview.html#agenda
14:44:21 <markel> I do
14:44:22 <annika> simon: Do we want to cancel the regular RDWG meeting next Wednesday?
14:44:32 <kerstin_m> zakim, unmute me
14:44:32 <Zakim> kerstin_m should no longer be muted
14:44:38 <annika> agreed
14:44:41 <Yehya> +1
14:44:44 <kerstin_m> +1
14:44:45 <sharper> +1
14:44:46 <markel> +1
14:44:49 <shawn> [ need to have at least one meeting to discuss e2r before 3 Dec ]
14:45:07 <annika> decision: Next meeting 28th November
14:45:10 <kerstin_m> zakim, mute me
14:45:10 <Zakim> kerstin_m should now be muted
14:45:29 <shawn> Dave: would like to debrief, but not available 21 Nov
14:46:03 <annika> simon: only two topics on 28th. Debrief of TC and prepare for E2R.
14:46:11 <annika> zakim, take up next
14:46:11 <Zakim> agendum 3. "E2R Symposium Status (10m) (klaus)" taken up [from sharper]
14:46:24 <shawn> zakim, mute me
14:46:24 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
14:46:29 <kerstin_m> zakim, unmute me
14:46:29 <Zakim> kerstin_m should no longer be muted
14:46:54 <kerstin_m> zakim, unmute me
14:46:54 <Zakim> kerstin_m was not muted, kerstin_m
14:47:02 <kerstin_m> one minute
14:47:10 <shawn> zakim, who is muted?
14:47:10 <Zakim> I see Shawn, annika, giorgio muted
14:48:42 <annika> zakim, take up next
14:48:42 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Next Topic Candidate - "User Modelling" http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/User_modelling (5m)" taken up [from yehya]
14:49:28 <annika> yehya: User modelling as next topic. Many project address this topic.
14:50:06 <annika> ... Would be interesting to investigate the state of the art of this active research area.
14:50:11 <shawn> Global Public Inclusive Infrastructure (GPII)  http://gpii.net/
14:50:16 <kerstin_m> i will come back to you. sorry
14:50:27 <markel> I like the topic
14:50:31 <sloandr> +1
14:50:39 <annika> simon:  Is this a good next topic?
14:50:44 <giorgio> +1
14:50:50 <giorgio> q
14:50:58 <giorgio> zakim, unmute me
14:50:58 <Zakim> giorgio should no longer be muted
14:51:24 <annika> giorgio: What are the accessibility issues related to user modelling?0
14:51:28 <giorgio> zakim, mute me
14:51:28 <Zakim> giorgio should now be muted
14:52:01 <annika> yehya: Main aspect is adaptivity. How can the system adapt to the needs of the user?
14:52:28 <annika> ... User models and user profiles can be use to adapt the web site, e.g for a blind user.
14:52:32 <shawn> [ Shawn notes it is related to text customization! :-]
14:53:03 <annika> yehya: And about mainstreaming adaptivity of user interfaces.
14:54:13 <shawn> [ Shawn asks Yehya & Christos to send questions for the upcoming symposium on tc4r related to text customization and user modelling ]
14:54:15 <annika> ... Another aspect: Design of UIs, e.g. for elderly users. The design system can give recommendation during development of UI.
14:54:30 <giorgio> zakim, unmute me
14:54:30 <Zakim> giorgio should no longer be muted
14:55:26 <annika> giorgio: Did some research in user modelling some years ago. Question: users change. How long is the information in the profile valid?
14:55:54 <kerstin_m> kerstin_m has joined #rd
14:56:10 <giorgio> zakim, mute me
14:56:10 <Zakim> giorgio should now be muted
14:56:15 <annika> ... What are the cues / evidence used to collect information about the user (e.g. how does the system know that a user is blind)?
14:56:42 <annika> yehya: Automatic approach and manual approach. Manual is prefered.
14:57:05 <annika> ... Automatic approach is of limited use, must be confirmed by the user.
14:57:15 <Zakim> +??P18
14:57:29 <annika> ... There is a lot of research in this area.
14:58:10 <kerstin_m> zakim, ??P18 is me
14:58:10 <Zakim> +kerstin_m; got it
14:58:11 <annika> ... There are dedicated conferences on user modelling (for all users, not only people with disabilities).
14:58:18 <giorgio> thanks
14:59:01 <annika> Topic: Status of E2R
14:59:08 <shawn> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:59:08 <Zakim> agendum 3. "E2R Symposium Status (10m) (klaus)" taken up [from sharper]
14:59:34 <annika> kerstin: The symposium is planned for 3 hours.
14:59:59 <annika> ... 2 hrs with panels: (1) guidelines, (2) tools, (3) services.
15:00:13 <annika> ... Questions will be send to the panalists beforehand.
15:00:41 <annika> ... After a break there will be an open discussion for 1 hr.
15:00:55 <annika> ... We hope that the participants stay on after the break.
15:01:07 <shawn> q+ to comment on scirbe, live captions
15:01:10 <shawn> ack me
15:01:11 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to comment on scirbe, live captions
15:01:18 <annika> ... There will be a student to transcribe.
15:01:46 <annika> shawn: Life captioning is available. So no additional scribe is needed.
15:02:14 <annika> shawn: zakim has a limited number of lines.
15:02:37 <annika> ... In previous symposiums not all people could participate.
15:02:52 <annika> ... Zakim supports about 50 lines.
15:03:58 <annika> kerstin: the system we tried out last week worked well. But the more difficult to manage ...
15:04:08 <annika> kerstin: Would prefer to use another system.
15:04:24 <shawn> [ con of other system: not able to see who is on the line]
15:04:49 <annika> kerstin: Can Shadi prepare a list of participants?
15:05:14 <annika> shawn: Yes, that should be possible.
15:05:19 <sloandr> thankyou shawn
15:05:37 <annika> simon: more comments about E2R?
15:06:17 <annika> shawn: new topic: pros and cons of system used last week
15:06:22 <shawn> topic: Conferencing system
15:06:26 <kerstin_m> +q
15:06:26 <shawn> las tweek
15:06:53 <shawn> [ con of other system: not able to see who is on the line]
15:06:56 <shawn> ack k
15:06:56 <markel> q+
15:07:10 <sloandr> q+
15:07:21 <shawn> [ /me agrees audio quality varied - sometimes not so good]
15:07:22 <annika> kerstin: The audio quality was differing. Good quality for chair. But not so good for other participants.
15:07:42 <Yehya> +q
15:07:50 <shawn> ack m
15:08:17 <shawn> [ some not able to connect through SIP ]
15:08:23 <giorgio> me too
15:08:23 <kerstin_m> +q
15:08:24 <annika> markel: Agree with Kerstin. Zakim was much better. And there were problems with connecting through sip.
15:08:33 <shawn> ack s
15:09:11 <shawn> ack y
15:09:13 <kerstin_m> q-
15:09:24 <annika> dave: participated for the first time in a W3C call.
15:09:44 <shawn> [ missed ability to queue ]
15:10:18 <annika> yehya: New system does not offer options for queuing.
15:10:24 <shawn> q+ to say don't need to use zakim codes & shadi manages
15:10:27 <shawn> ack me
15:10:27 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say don't need to use zakim codes & shadi manages
15:10:33 <annika> kerstin: zakim can be difficult for people using it the first time.
15:11:01 <annika> shawn: keep in mind that the participants don't have to use zakim.
15:11:45 <annika> ... there will be instrutions for the participants. Each participant gets a code. Shadi manages the muting etc ...
15:11:53 <annika> q+
15:11:55 <kerstin_m> q+
15:12:02 <annika> zakim, ack me
15:12:02 <Zakim> unmuting annika
15:12:03 <Zakim> I see kerstin_m on the speaker queue
15:12:42 <shawn> Annika: remember web metrics. didn't have to use any Zakim commands. It was all managed by Shadi. Worked well for speakers, but don't remember how queueing.
15:13:01 <shawn> .... sound quality depends on what kind of line people using. Skype quality was poor.
15:13:16 <shawn> ... last week seems had better quality with Skype dial in.
15:13:17 <annika> zakim, mute me
15:13:18 <Zakim> annika should now be muted
15:13:24 <shawn> ack k
15:14:03 <annika> kerstin: shawn said that shadi manages the participants. How does this work?
15:14:39 <annika> shawn: that's a different system. Each partipant gets a code that is entered when they dial in.
15:14:51 <shawn> [ /me apprecaites Shadi's work on this!!!]
15:15:14 <shawn> agenda?
15:15:15 <annika> simon: most people seem to prefer zakim. but the number of participants is limited.
15:16:21 <annika> simon: The other suggested topics can't be presented because the people are not on the call.
15:16:53 <annika> ... Remember that the RDWG runs out in June. Suggestion to select and run two more topics soon.
15:17:13 <annika> s/the RDWG runs out in June/the RDWG charter runs out in June
15:17:44 <shawn> ack me
15:17:47 <annika> ... For example the topics: user modelling and access to graphics.
15:18:21 <sloandr> q+
15:18:25 <annika> shawn: Leave at least one months between the topics. Two weeks (as for TC and E2R) are a bit tight.
15:18:32 <shawn> ack s
15:19:31 <annika> dave: agree with shawn. More time in between also avoids confusion between the two topics.
15:19:55 <kerstin_m> +1
15:20:04 <annika> ... timing in the year and month also help to distiguish the symposia.
15:20:10 <markel> +q
15:20:29 <markel> q-
15:20:41 <annika> simon: suggest to have three symposia: in April, May and June.
15:20:57 <markel> q+
15:20:59 <annika> shawn: keep in mind that we also need editors / organisers.
15:21:16 <shawn> [ /me wonders if Markku would prefer to do "Accessible Illustration/Diagrams" or  "Notifications and Interruptions" first ? ]
15:21:37 <annika> simon: Editors are available. (The people who suggested the topics.)
15:22:15 <annika> yehya: We need also time after the symposium to prepare the note etc.
15:23:31 <annika> simon: Do you agree to schedule three topics now?
15:23:32 <sloandr> +1
15:23:36 <giorgio> +1
15:23:37 <markel> +1 as long as we are rechartered
15:23:38 <kerstin_m> +1
15:23:39 <shawn> +1 to choosing 2 or 3 now
15:23:41 <annika> +1
15:23:45 <sharper> +1
15:23:57 <Yehya> +1
15:24:13 <annika> simon will send a message to the list.
15:24:21 <shawn> q+
15:24:25 <markel> q-
15:24:34 <shawn> ack me
15:25:01 <sloandr> +1 to shawn
15:25:21 <annika> shawn: The user modelling has an interesting relationship to TC. Good sequence to do user modelling next.
15:25:32 <giorgio> +1
15:25:34 <markel> +1
15:25:34 <sloandr> +1
15:25:36 <sharper> +1
15:25:37 <kerstin_m> +1
15:25:38 <annika> simon: should we take up user modelling first?
15:25:41 <annika> +1
15:27:12 <annika> zakim, unmute me
15:27:12 <Zakim> annika should no longer be muted
15:27:54 <sharper> RESOLUTION: User modelling First based on linkage with TC  (pending Ok with those not on the call)
15:28:10 <annika> zakim, mute me
15:28:10 <Zakim> annika should now be muted
15:28:30 <annika> zakim, take up agendum 8
15:28:30 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Metrics W3C Note Status (5m) " taken up [from markel via sharper]
15:28:37 <shawn> s/User modelling First based on linkage with TC/User modelling next symposium based on linkage with TC4R/
15:28:49 <annika> markel: the update of the not is completed. comments have been addressed.
15:29:11 <annika> s/update of the not/update of the note
15:29:41 <annika> markel: shadi needs to clarify the next steps.
15:29:59 <annika> zakim, take up next
15:29:59 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Next Topic Candidate - "User Modelling" http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/User_modelling (5m)" taken up [from yehya]
15:30:12 <annika> zakim, take up agendum 9
15:30:12 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Mobile W3C Note Status (5m) " taken up [from sharper]
15:30:35 <annika> simon: will be ready in the next couple of weeks.
15:31:04 <shawn> ok with me
15:31:23 <annika> ... Propose to invite coordination group and RDWG to common meeting on 12. Dec to discuss the mobile roadmap
15:31:39 <markel> 12 of Dec is ok for me (by now)
15:31:54 <markel> bye!
15:31:55 <giorgio> 12 of Dec is not ok with me; i'll be away.
15:31:58 <giorgio> bye
15:32:00 <markel> markel has left #rd
15:32:03 <Zakim> -markel
15:32:05 <Zakim> -Yehya
15:32:07 <sloandr> thnkyou, bye
15:32:15 <sloandr> sloandr has left #rd
15:32:15 <annika> zakim, unmute me
15:32:15 <Zakim> annika should no longer be muted
15:32:17 <Zakim> -kerstin_m
15:32:28 <Zakim> -DavidSloan
15:32:35 <annika> bye
15:32:37 <Zakim> -Shawn
15:32:48 <Zakim> -sharper
15:32:52 <shawn> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/14-rd-minutes.html shawn
15:34:43 <shawn> Present: Shawn, Annika, Markel, Yeyha, David, Kerstin, Georgio, Simon
15:35:03 <shawn> Present: Shawn, Annika, Markel, Yehya, David, Kerstin, Georgio, Simon
15:35:17 <shawn> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:35:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/14-rd-minutes.html shawn
16:04:03 <annika> annika has left #rd
16:55:09 <Zakim> This conference is in overtime; all ports must be freed
17:00:46 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:00:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see annika, giorgio (muted), kerstin_m.a
17:00:52 <shawn> zakim, drop annika
17:00:52 <Zakim> annika is being disconnected
17:00:54 <Zakim> -annika
17:01:01 <shawn> zakim, drop giorgio
17:01:01 <Zakim> giorgio is being disconnected
17:01:02 <Zakim> -giorgio
17:01:11 <shawn> zakim, drop kerstin_m.a
17:01:13 <Zakim> kerstin_m.a is being disconnected
17:01:13 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
17:01:13 <Zakim> Attendees were Shawn, markel, annika, DavidSloan, Yehya, sharper, giorgio, kerstin_m
17:02:29 <shawn> shawn has left #rd