IRC log of rd on 2012-11-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:29:07 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rd
14:29:07 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/14-rd-irc
14:29:09 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:29:11 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7394
14:29:12 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:29:12 [trackbot]
Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:29:12 [trackbot]
Date: 14 November 2012
14:29:21 [shawn]
zakim, who is one the phone?
14:29:21 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, shawn.
14:29:26 [shawn]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:29:26 [Zakim]
WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has not yet started, shawn
14:29:27 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, shawn, Yehya, nonge_, trackbot, Zakim
14:29:35 [annika]
annika has joined #rd
14:29:46 [sharper]
sharper has joined #rd
14:30:02 [Zakim]
WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
14:30:08 [sharper]
trackbot, start meeting
14:30:08 [sharper]
zakim, please clear the agenda
14:30:08 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:30:09 [Zakim]
+??P9
14:30:10 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:30:11 [Zakim]
-??P9
14:30:12 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7394
14:30:12 [Zakim]
WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:30:12 [Zakim]
Attendees were
14:30:12 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start now
14:30:13 [trackbot]
Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:30:13 [trackbot]
Date: 14 November 2012
14:30:17 [Zakim]
WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
14:30:24 [Zakim]
+Shawn
14:30:28 [shawn]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:30:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shawn
14:30:30 [sharper]
Chair: Harper_Simon
14:30:30 [sharper]
Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
14:30:30 [sharper]
Agenda+ TC Symposium on Monday (10m) (shawn)
14:30:31 [sharper]
Agenda+ E2R Symposium Status (10m) (klaus)
14:30:31 [sharper]
Agenda+ Next Topic Candidate - "User Modelling" http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/User_modelling (5m) [yehya]
14:30:32 [sharper]
Agenda+ Next Topic Candidate - "Accessible Illustration/Diagrams" (5m)
14:30:32 [sharper]
[markku]
14:30:32 [sharper]
Agenda+ Next Topic Candidate - "Notifications and Interruptions" (5m)
14:30:33 [sharper]
[markku]
14:30:33 [sharper]
Agenda+ Next Topic Candidate - Any Others / Ready to Vote? (10m) [all]
14:30:33 [sharper]
Agenda+ Metrics W3C Note Status (5m) [markel]
14:30:34 [sharper]
Agenda+ Mobile W3C Note Status (5m) [sharper]
14:30:34 [sharper]
Agenda+ Issues and Actions (Standing Item): https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/ [sharper]
14:30:34 [sharper]
Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item) [sharper]
14:30:37 [Zakim]
+??P9
14:30:40 [sharper]
zakim, save agenda
14:30:46 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 1
14:30:47 [Zakim]
ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/14-rd-agenda.rdf
14:30:49 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
14:30:51 [markel]
markel has joined #rd
14:31:16 [giorgio]
giorgio has joined #rd
14:31:25 [sharper]
regrets: Klaus, Shadi, Justin, Vivian, Peter
14:31:30 [Zakim]
+??P12
14:31:39 [Zakim]
+carlos
14:31:41 [annika]
zakim, +P9 is annika
14:31:41 [Zakim]
sorry, annika, I do not recognize a party named '+P9'
14:31:51 [markel]
zakim, ??P12 is markel
14:31:51 [Zakim]
+markel; got it
14:31:53 [kerstin_m]
kerstin_m has joined #rd
14:32:02 [annika]
zakim ??p9 is me
14:32:15 [annika]
zakim, ??p9 is me
14:32:15 [Zakim]
+annika; got it
14:32:24 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:32:36 [annika]
zakim, mute me
14:32:36 [Zakim]
annika should now be muted
14:32:51 [shawn]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:32:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Shawn, annika (muted), markel, carlos, [IPcaller]
14:32:59 [Zakim]
+??P14
14:33:01 [Zakim]
-??P14
14:33:12 [shawn]
zakim, [IPcaller] is DavidSloan
14:33:12 [Zakim]
+DavidSloan; got it
14:33:30 [Yehya]
zakim, carlos is Yehya
14:33:30 [Zakim]
+Yehya; got it
14:33:36 [Zakim]
+??P14
14:33:42 [sharper]
zakim, ??P14 is sharper
14:33:42 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
14:33:51 [sloandr]
sloandr has joined #rd
14:34:05 [Zakim]
+??P15
14:34:08 [Zakim]
+??P16
14:35:00 [giorgio]
zakim, ??p15 is me
14:35:00 [Zakim]
+giorgio; got it
14:35:12 [kerstin_m]
zakim, ??p16 is me
14:35:12 [Zakim]
+kerstin_m; got it
14:35:26 [sharper]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/scribes
14:36:02 [annika]
zakim, unmute me
14:36:02 [Zakim]
annika should no longer be muted
14:36:29 [shawn]
scribe: Annika
14:36:56 [annika]
zakim, take up next
14:36:56 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "TC Symposium on Monday (10m) (shawn)" taken up [from sharper]
14:37:15 [annika]
zakim, mute me
14:37:16 [Zakim]
annika should now be muted
14:37:47 [shawn]
e-mail with list of questions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Nov/0044.html
14:37:48 [annika]
There is a documents with a list of questions for the participants (authors)
14:37:59 [shawn]
zakim, who is making noise?
14:38:10 [Zakim]
shawn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidSloan (44%), giorgio (4%)
14:38:14 [annika]
The questions are assigned to the authors.
14:38:44 [kerstin_m]
zakim, mute me
14:38:44 [Zakim]
kerstin_m should now be muted
14:39:09 [annika]
dave: are there any comments on the list of questions?
14:39:22 [annika]
... additional topics or questions.
14:39:34 [giorgio]
[i think i muted my mike, though. i don't understand where the 4% noice come from.]
14:39:42 [annika]
... The list will be circulated to the authors.
14:40:02 [giorgio]
zakim, mute me
14:40:02 [Zakim]
giorgio should now be muted
14:40:24 [shawn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/text-customization/Overview.html
14:40:39 [shawn]
^^^ symposium page
14:41:32 [annika]
shawn: 57 people have registered for the TC symposium.
14:41:38 [annika]
shawn: We will use Zakim.
14:42:32 [annika]
simon: Remember that RDWG participants also have to register to participate.
14:42:36 [shawn]
Invitation for short contributions to Text Customization for Readability Online Symposium http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012Nov/0026.html
14:42:47 [shawn]
Additional short contributions are welcome (preferably by Monday 12 November) via e-mail to the publicly-archived mailing list:
14:42:47 [shawn]
<public-wai-rd-comments@w3.org>
14:42:47 [shawn]
with subject starting: "[TC4R Symposium]"
14:43:30 [annika]
dave: If you send additional questions, please identify the topic.
14:43:36 [shawn]
say where in the agenda your question applies: http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/text-customization/Overview.html#agenda
14:44:21 [markel]
I do
14:44:22 [annika]
simon: Do we want to cancel the regular RDWG meeting next Wednesday?
14:44:32 [kerstin_m]
zakim, unmute me
14:44:32 [Zakim]
kerstin_m should no longer be muted
14:44:38 [annika]
agreed
14:44:41 [Yehya]
+1
14:44:44 [kerstin_m]
+1
14:44:45 [sharper]
+1
14:44:46 [markel]
+1
14:44:49 [shawn]
[ need to have at least one meeting to discuss e2r before 3 Dec ]
14:45:07 [annika]
decision: Next meeting 28th November
14:45:10 [kerstin_m]
zakim, mute me
14:45:10 [Zakim]
kerstin_m should now be muted
14:45:29 [shawn]
Dave: would like to debrief, but not available 21 Nov
14:46:03 [annika]
simon: only two topics on 28th. Debrief of TC and prepare for E2R.
14:46:11 [annika]
zakim, take up next
14:46:11 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "E2R Symposium Status (10m) (klaus)" taken up [from sharper]
14:46:24 [shawn]
zakim, mute me
14:46:24 [Zakim]
Shawn should now be muted
14:46:29 [kerstin_m]
zakim, unmute me
14:46:29 [Zakim]
kerstin_m should no longer be muted
14:46:54 [kerstin_m]
zakim, unmute me
14:46:54 [Zakim]
kerstin_m was not muted, kerstin_m
14:47:02 [kerstin_m]
one minute
14:47:10 [shawn]
zakim, who is muted?
14:47:10 [Zakim]
I see Shawn, annika, giorgio muted
14:48:42 [annika]
zakim, take up next
14:48:42 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Next Topic Candidate - "User Modelling" http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/User_modelling (5m)" taken up [from yehya]
14:49:28 [annika]
yehya: User modelling as next topic. Many project address this topic.
14:50:06 [annika]
... Would be interesting to investigate the state of the art of this active research area.
14:50:11 [shawn]
Global Public Inclusive Infrastructure (GPII) http://gpii.net/
14:50:16 [kerstin_m]
i will come back to you. sorry
14:50:27 [markel]
I like the topic
14:50:31 [sloandr]
+1
14:50:39 [annika]
simon: Is this a good next topic?
14:50:44 [giorgio]
+1
14:50:50 [giorgio]
q
14:50:58 [giorgio]
zakim, unmute me
14:50:58 [Zakim]
giorgio should no longer be muted
14:51:24 [annika]
giorgio: What are the accessibility issues related to user modelling?0
14:51:28 [giorgio]
zakim, mute me
14:51:28 [Zakim]
giorgio should now be muted
14:52:01 [annika]
yehya: Main aspect is adaptivity. How can the system adapt to the needs of the user?
14:52:28 [annika]
... User models and user profiles can be use to adapt the web site, e.g for a blind user.
14:52:32 [shawn]
[ Shawn notes it is related to text customization! :-]
14:53:03 [annika]
yehya: And about mainstreaming adaptivity of user interfaces.
14:54:13 [shawn]
[ Shawn asks Yehya & Christos to send questions for the upcoming symposium on tc4r related to text customization and user modelling ]
14:54:15 [annika]
... Another aspect: Design of UIs, e.g. for elderly users. The design system can give recommendation during development of UI.
14:54:30 [giorgio]
zakim, unmute me
14:54:30 [Zakim]
giorgio should no longer be muted
14:55:26 [annika]
giorgio: Did some research in user modelling some years ago. Question: users change. How long is the information in the profile valid?
14:55:54 [kerstin_m]
kerstin_m has joined #rd
14:56:10 [giorgio]
zakim, mute me
14:56:10 [Zakim]
giorgio should now be muted
14:56:15 [annika]
... What are the cues / evidence used to collect information about the user (e.g. how does the system know that a user is blind)?
14:56:42 [annika]
yehya: Automatic approach and manual approach. Manual is prefered.
14:57:05 [annika]
... Automatic approach is of limited use, must be confirmed by the user.
14:57:15 [Zakim]
+??P18
14:57:29 [annika]
... There is a lot of research in this area.
14:58:10 [kerstin_m]
zakim, ??P18 is me
14:58:10 [Zakim]
+kerstin_m; got it
14:58:11 [annika]
... There are dedicated conferences on user modelling (for all users, not only people with disabilities).
14:58:18 [giorgio]
thanks
14:59:01 [annika]
Topic: Status of E2R
14:59:08 [shawn]
zakim, take up agendum 3
14:59:08 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "E2R Symposium Status (10m) (klaus)" taken up [from sharper]
14:59:34 [annika]
kerstin: The symposium is planned for 3 hours.
14:59:59 [annika]
... 2 hrs with panels: (1) guidelines, (2) tools, (3) services.
15:00:13 [annika]
... Questions will be send to the panalists beforehand.
15:00:41 [annika]
... After a break there will be an open discussion for 1 hr.
15:00:55 [annika]
... We hope that the participants stay on after the break.
15:01:07 [shawn]
q+ to comment on scirbe, live captions
15:01:10 [shawn]
ack me
15:01:11 [Zakim]
shawn, you wanted to comment on scirbe, live captions
15:01:18 [annika]
... There will be a student to transcribe.
15:01:46 [annika]
shawn: Life captioning is available. So no additional scribe is needed.
15:02:14 [annika]
shawn: zakim has a limited number of lines.
15:02:37 [annika]
... In previous symposiums not all people could participate.
15:02:52 [annika]
... Zakim supports about 50 lines.
15:03:58 [annika]
kerstin: the system we tried out last week worked well. But the more difficult to manage ...
15:04:08 [annika]
kerstin: Would prefer to use another system.
15:04:24 [shawn]
[ con of other system: not able to see who is on the line]
15:04:49 [annika]
kerstin: Can Shadi prepare a list of participants?
15:05:14 [annika]
shawn: Yes, that should be possible.
15:05:19 [sloandr]
thankyou shawn
15:05:37 [annika]
simon: more comments about E2R?
15:06:17 [annika]
shawn: new topic: pros and cons of system used last week
15:06:22 [shawn]
topic: Conferencing system
15:06:26 [kerstin_m]
+q
15:06:26 [shawn]
las tweek
15:06:53 [shawn]
[ con of other system: not able to see who is on the line]
15:06:56 [shawn]
ack k
15:06:56 [markel]
q+
15:07:10 [sloandr]
q+
15:07:21 [shawn]
[ /me agrees audio quality varied - sometimes not so good]
15:07:22 [annika]
kerstin: The audio quality was differing. Good quality for chair. But not so good for other participants.
15:07:42 [Yehya]
+q
15:07:50 [shawn]
ack m
15:08:17 [shawn]
[ some not able to connect through SIP ]
15:08:23 [giorgio]
me too
15:08:23 [kerstin_m]
+q
15:08:24 [annika]
markel: Agree with Kerstin. Zakim was much better. And there were problems with connecting through sip.
15:08:33 [shawn]
ack s
15:09:11 [shawn]
ack y
15:09:13 [kerstin_m]
q-
15:09:24 [annika]
dave: participated for the first time in a W3C call.
15:09:44 [shawn]
[ missed ability to queue ]
15:10:18 [annika]
yehya: New system does not offer options for queuing.
15:10:24 [shawn]
q+ to say don't need to use zakim codes & shadi manages
15:10:27 [shawn]
ack me
15:10:27 [Zakim]
shawn, you wanted to say don't need to use zakim codes & shadi manages
15:10:33 [annika]
kerstin: zakim can be difficult for people using it the first time.
15:11:01 [annika]
shawn: keep in mind that the participants don't have to use zakim.
15:11:45 [annika]
... there will be instrutions for the participants. Each participant gets a code. Shadi manages the muting etc ...
15:11:53 [annika]
q+
15:11:55 [kerstin_m]
q+
15:12:02 [annika]
zakim, ack me
15:12:02 [Zakim]
unmuting annika
15:12:03 [Zakim]
I see kerstin_m on the speaker queue
15:12:42 [shawn]
Annika: remember web metrics. didn't have to use any Zakim commands. It was all managed by Shadi. Worked well for speakers, but don't remember how queueing.
15:13:01 [shawn]
.... sound quality depends on what kind of line people using. Skype quality was poor.
15:13:16 [shawn]
... last week seems had better quality with Skype dial in.
15:13:17 [annika]
zakim, mute me
15:13:18 [Zakim]
annika should now be muted
15:13:24 [shawn]
ack k
15:14:03 [annika]
kerstin: shawn said that shadi manages the participants. How does this work?
15:14:39 [annika]
shawn: that's a different system. Each partipant gets a code that is entered when they dial in.
15:14:51 [shawn]
[ /me apprecaites Shadi's work on this!!!]
15:15:14 [shawn]
agenda?
15:15:15 [annika]
simon: most people seem to prefer zakim. but the number of participants is limited.
15:16:21 [annika]
simon: The other suggested topics can't be presented because the people are not on the call.
15:16:53 [annika]
... Remember that the RDWG runs out in June. Suggestion to select and run two more topics soon.
15:17:13 [annika]
s/the RDWG runs out in June/the RDWG charter runs out in June
15:17:44 [shawn]
ack me
15:17:47 [annika]
... For example the topics: user modelling and access to graphics.
15:18:21 [sloandr]
q+
15:18:25 [annika]
shawn: Leave at least one months between the topics. Two weeks (as for TC and E2R) are a bit tight.
15:18:32 [shawn]
ack s
15:19:31 [annika]
dave: agree with shawn. More time in between also avoids confusion between the two topics.
15:19:55 [kerstin_m]
+1
15:20:04 [annika]
... timing in the year and month also help to distiguish the symposia.
15:20:10 [markel]
+q
15:20:29 [markel]
q-
15:20:41 [annika]
simon: suggest to have three symposia: in April, May and June.
15:20:57 [markel]
q+
15:20:59 [annika]
shawn: keep in mind that we also need editors / organisers.
15:21:16 [shawn]
[ /me wonders if Markku would prefer to do "Accessible Illustration/Diagrams" or "Notifications and Interruptions" first ? ]
15:21:37 [annika]
simon: Editors are available. (The people who suggested the topics.)
15:22:15 [annika]
yehya: We need also time after the symposium to prepare the note etc.
15:23:31 [annika]
simon: Do you agree to schedule three topics now?
15:23:32 [sloandr]
+1
15:23:36 [giorgio]
+1
15:23:37 [markel]
+1 as long as we are rechartered
15:23:38 [kerstin_m]
+1
15:23:39 [shawn]
+1 to choosing 2 or 3 now
15:23:41 [annika]
+1
15:23:45 [sharper]
+1
15:23:57 [Yehya]
+1
15:24:13 [annika]
simon will send a message to the list.
15:24:21 [shawn]
q+
15:24:25 [markel]
q-
15:24:34 [shawn]
ack me
15:25:01 [sloandr]
+1 to shawn
15:25:21 [annika]
shawn: The user modelling has an interesting relationship to TC. Good sequence to do user modelling next.
15:25:32 [giorgio]
+1
15:25:34 [markel]
+1
15:25:34 [sloandr]
+1
15:25:36 [sharper]
+1
15:25:37 [kerstin_m]
+1
15:25:38 [annika]
simon: should we take up user modelling first?
15:25:41 [annika]
+1
15:27:12 [annika]
zakim, unmute me
15:27:12 [Zakim]
annika should no longer be muted
15:27:54 [sharper]
RESOLUTION: User modelling First based on linkage with TC (pending Ok with those not on the call)
15:28:10 [annika]
zakim, mute me
15:28:10 [Zakim]
annika should now be muted
15:28:30 [annika]
zakim, take up agendum 8
15:28:30 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Metrics W3C Note Status (5m) " taken up [from markel via sharper]
15:28:37 [shawn]
s/User modelling First based on linkage with TC/User modelling next symposium based on linkage with TC4R/
15:28:49 [annika]
markel: the update of the not is completed. comments have been addressed.
15:29:11 [annika]
s/update of the not/update of the note
15:29:41 [annika]
markel: shadi needs to clarify the next steps.
15:29:59 [annika]
zakim, take up next
15:29:59 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Next Topic Candidate - "User Modelling" http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/User_modelling (5m)" taken up [from yehya]
15:30:12 [annika]
zakim, take up agendum 9
15:30:12 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "Mobile W3C Note Status (5m) " taken up [from sharper]
15:30:35 [annika]
simon: will be ready in the next couple of weeks.
15:31:04 [shawn]
ok with me
15:31:23 [annika]
... Propose to invite coordination group and RDWG to common meeting on 12. Dec to discuss the mobile roadmap
15:31:39 [markel]
12 of Dec is ok for me (by now)
15:31:54 [markel]
bye!
15:31:55 [giorgio]
12 of Dec is not ok with me; i'll be away.
15:31:58 [giorgio]
bye
15:32:00 [markel]
markel has left #rd
15:32:03 [Zakim]
-markel
15:32:05 [Zakim]
-Yehya
15:32:07 [sloandr]
thnkyou, bye
15:32:15 [sloandr]
sloandr has left #rd
15:32:15 [annika]
zakim, unmute me
15:32:15 [Zakim]
annika should no longer be muted
15:32:17 [Zakim]
-kerstin_m
15:32:28 [Zakim]
-DavidSloan
15:32:35 [annika]
bye
15:32:37 [Zakim]
-Shawn
15:32:48 [Zakim]
-sharper
15:32:52 [shawn]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:32:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/14-rd-minutes.html shawn
15:34:43 [shawn]
Present: Shawn, Annika, Markel, Yeyha, David, Kerstin, Georgio, Simon
15:35:03 [shawn]
Present: Shawn, Annika, Markel, Yehya, David, Kerstin, Georgio, Simon
15:35:17 [shawn]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:35:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/14-rd-minutes.html shawn
16:04:03 [annika]
annika has left #rd
16:55:09 [Zakim]
This conference is in overtime; all ports must be freed
17:00:46 [shawn]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:00:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see annika, giorgio (muted), kerstin_m.a
17:00:52 [shawn]
zakim, drop annika
17:00:52 [Zakim]
annika is being disconnected
17:00:54 [Zakim]
-annika
17:01:01 [shawn]
zakim, drop giorgio
17:01:01 [Zakim]
giorgio is being disconnected
17:01:02 [Zakim]
-giorgio
17:01:11 [shawn]
zakim, drop kerstin_m.a
17:01:13 [Zakim]
kerstin_m.a is being disconnected
17:01:13 [Zakim]
WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
17:01:13 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shawn, markel, annika, DavidSloan, Yehya, sharper, giorgio, kerstin_m
17:02:29 [shawn]
shawn has left #rd