14:59:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ldp
14:59:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/12-ldp-irc
14:59:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ldp
14:59:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
14:59:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
14:59:13 <trackbot> Date: 12 November 2012
14:59:15 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
14:59:20 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
14:59:21 <Zakim> +dret
14:59:21 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here
14:59:21 <Zakim> MacTed, you need to end that query with '?'
14:59:24 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
14:59:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, OpenLink_Software
14:59:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, stevebattle, nandana, JohnArwe, dret, SteveS, timbl, MacTed, jmvanel, oberger, webr3, trackbot, Arnaud, bblfish, Yves, sandro, ericP
14:59:33 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
14:59:33 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
14:59:35 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
14:59:35 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
14:59:57 <Zakim> +Arnaud
14:59:59 <MacTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:59:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/12-ldp-minutes.html MacTed
15:00:05 <MacTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:00:18 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:00:22 <Zakim> +bblfish
15:00:25 <bblfish> hi
15:00:49 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is me
15:00:50 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
15:01:05 <Zakim> +SteveBattle
15:01:22 <Zakim> +??P10
15:01:27 <roger> roger has joined #ldp
15:01:35 <oberger> Zakim, ??P10 is me
15:01:35 <Zakim> +oberger; got it
15:01:42 <Zakim> + +44.208.573.aaaa
15:02:08 <Zakim> +??P14
15:02:10 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
15:02:49 <oberger> it looks like the F2F has boosted the contribs, right ?
15:03:51 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:03:51 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:03:59 <roger> zakim, aaaa is me
15:03:59 <Zakim> +roger; got it
15:04:05 <nandana> Zakim, ??P14 is me
15:04:05 <Zakim> +nandana; got it
15:04:06 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:04:06 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:04:18 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:04:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, MacTed (muted), Arnaud, SteveS, bblfish, SteveBattle, oberger, roger, JohnArwe, nandana
15:04:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see roger, Zakim, RRSAgent, stevebattle, nandana, JohnArwe, dret, SteveS, timbl, MacTed, jmvanel, oberger, webr3, trackbot, Arnaud, bblfish, Yves, sandro, ericP
15:04:21 <nandana> Zakim, mute me
15:04:21 <Zakim> nandana should now be muted
15:04:34 <cygri> cygri has joined #ldp
15:04:46 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
15:05:12 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #ldp
15:05:14 <bblfish> I can scribe
15:05:29 <bhyland> bhyland has joined #ldp
15:05:41 <Zakim> +MHausenblas
15:05:46 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
15:05:46 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:05:51 <bblfish> I am not good at the commands for this
15:06:13 <SteveS> Scribe: bblfish
15:06:19 <bblfish> Topic: Approve the minutes before the face-to-face
15:06:28 <bblfish> do we have the link?
15:06:29 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-10-22
15:06:40 <oberger> read them
15:07:06 <bblfish> Minutes approved
15:07:13 <deiu> deiu has joined #ldp
15:07:16 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-01
15:07:16 <SteveS> read them
15:07:17 <stevebattle> yes
15:07:18 <cygri>  http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-012
15:07:19 <bblfish> Topic: Approve TPAC minutes
15:07:25 <stevebattle> no
15:07:40 <bblfish> minutes of Nov 1,2 approved
15:07:49 <cygri> oops, second link should be http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-02
15:08:11 <bblfish> Topic: Action and Issues
15:08:33 <oberger> actions
15:08:43 <bblfish> Arnaud: does anyone want to claim any actions
15:08:55 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/pendingreview
15:08:57 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/21
15:09:01 <bblfish> close action 21
15:09:11 <bblfish> zakim, close action 21
15:09:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close action 21', bblfish
15:09:16 <JohnArwe> close action-21
15:09:16 <trackbot> ACTION-21 Set up wiki page on Access Control closed
15:09:40 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/25
15:09:44 <bblfish> close action-25
15:09:44 <trackbot> ACTION-25 Create a wiki page for the test suite and validator proposals closed
15:10:09 <bblfish> issue-33?
15:10:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-33 -- Pagination for non-container resources -- raised
15:10:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/33
15:10:16 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Deployment_Guide
15:10:39 <bblfish> issue-7?
15:10:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-7 -- What operations are permittered on containers and how do they get invoked? -- open
15:10:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/7
15:10:55 <MacTed> issue-26?
15:10:55 <trackbot> ISSUE-26 -- creation model for LDP -- open
15:10:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/26
15:11:02 <MacTed> action-26?
15:11:02 <trackbot> ACTION-26 -- Richard Cyganiak to create wiki page for Deployment Guide -- due 2012-11-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:11:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/26
15:11:04 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/pendingreview
15:11:23 <bblfish> action 26? Or 25?
15:11:23 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find 26?. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>.
15:11:41 <oberger> action 22?
15:11:41 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
15:11:57 <bblfish> close action-22
15:11:57 <trackbot> ACTION-22 Open an issue on paging closed
15:12:05 <bblfish> close action-23
15:12:05 <trackbot> ACTION-23 Create a new issue on managing weak aggregation, to subsume ISSUE-7; PATCH might be one way to do it closed
15:12:10 <bblfish> close action-26
15:12:10 <trackbot> ACTION-26 Create wiki page for Deployment Guide closed
15:12:20 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #ldp
15:12:40 <cygri> I claim victory on actions 22, 23, 26
15:12:41 <bblfish> Arnaud: steve battle have you done action 19?
15:12:51 <bblfish> action-19?
15:12:51 <trackbot> ACTION-19 -- Steve Battle to lDBP -> LDP, have to be done on the use case and requirements document as well as there are many references to "basic profile". -- due 2012-10-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:12:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/19
15:13:21 <bblfish> close action-19
15:13:21 <trackbot> ACTION-19 LDBP -> LDP, have to be done on the use case and requirements document as well as there are many references to "basic profile". closed
15:13:26 <bblfish> close action-20
15:13:26 <trackbot> ACTION-20 Move Use Case examples to Examples area on the wiki closed
15:13:49 <cygri_> cygri_ has joined #ldp
15:13:58 <bblfish> Topic: Issues Raised
15:14:30 <bblfish> Olivier: what do we do with comments on the public mailing list which look like issues?
15:15:17 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:15:17 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:15:37 <bblfish> Arnaud: formally speaking during last call where there is a duty to deal with all the comments we received. It is not necessary to do this now, but it is a good thing to do it, ...
15:16:17 <bblfish> Arnaud: if you see an issue put it up
15:16:22 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone/
15:16:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone/', cygri
15:16:32 <bblfish> ... lets look at the raised issues
15:16:32 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:16:32 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:16:32 <cygri> member:zakim who is on the phone?
15:16:38 <bblfish> issue-27?
15:16:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-27 -- Should the PATCH method be used, as opposed to POST with a given mime type? -- raised
15:16:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/27
15:16:42 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:16:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, MacTed (muted), Arnaud, SteveS, bblfish, SteveBattle, oberger, roger, JohnArwe, nandana (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, cygri
15:17:17 <oberger> is the lack of "raiser" normal ?
15:17:34 <bblfish> cygri: issue-27 was raised by tim during the face to face
15:17:43 <bblfish> s/tim/timBL/
15:18:22 <bblfish> Arnaud: we should open issue-27
15:18:31 <bblfish> reopen issue-27
15:18:31 <trackbot> ISSUE-27 Should the PATCH method be used, as opposed to POST with a given mime type? re-opened
15:18:44 <bblfish> issue-28?
15:18:44 <trackbot> ISSUE-28 -- transaction/rollback when deleting resources from a LDPC -- raised
15:18:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/28
15:19:14 <oberger> open it
15:19:15 <stevebattle> q+
15:19:18 <bblfish> any opinions?
15:19:34 <bblfish> who is this?
15:19:52 <Arnaud> ack stevebattle
15:20:00 <bblfish> SteveS: we should open it, its a valid issue
15:20:23 <bblfish> SteveBattle: thinks given RDF is an open world model this does not make so much sense, but we should open it
15:20:40 <bblfish> reopen issue-28
15:20:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-28 transaction/rollback when deleting resources from a LDPC re-opened
15:20:50 <bblfish> issue-29?
15:20:50 <trackbot> ISSUE-29 -- Relative URIs are crucial -- raised
15:20:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/29
15:21:39 <bblfish> stevebattle: could have impact on primer
15:21:55 <bblfish> stevebattle: but not sure if it has impact on spec
15:22:15 <bblfish> +1
15:22:23 <bblfish> q+
15:22:26 <MacTed> +1 open
15:22:32 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
15:23:09 <bblfish> richard should be a deployment guide thing
15:23:24 <oberger> let's open it and stop discussing for now, then ;)
15:23:25 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute m
15:23:25 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:23:29 <cygri> oberger++
15:23:42 <bblfish> no just got a proxy that can proxy w3c and add webid auth to it
15:23:46 <bblfish> reopen issue-29
15:23:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-29 Relative URIs are crucial re-opened
15:23:57 <bblfish> issue-30?
15:23:57 <trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Hierarchical bugtracking service -- raised
15:23:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/30
15:24:20 <stevebattle> q+
15:24:30 <bblfish> cygri: already has been very useful
15:24:36 <oberger> I'm afraid the description is not understandable
15:24:38 <bblfish> Arnaud: but why do we have an issue here
15:24:45 <SteveS> q+
15:24:57 <bblfish> SteveS: badly written contains two issues - SteveS can you detail this here?
15:25:31 <bblfish> Arnaud: this is an issue against the UCR
15:25:45 <bblfish> ... lets leave it as is for now until Eric is here
15:25:50 <oberger> +1 for ericP to provide a bit more verbose description of the "issues"
15:25:57 <Arnaud> q?
15:26:05 <Arnaud> ack steves
15:26:41 <Arnaud> ack stevebattle
15:26:48 <bblfish> stevebattle: are these intended to be examples that should go into use case document. These are not examples already there.
15:27:08 <bblfish> Arnaud: we get back to it when Eric is back
15:27:08 <oberger> ericP, please enlighten us on http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/30
15:27:12 <bblfish> Issue-31?
15:27:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-31 -- Proper Conformance section for LDP spec -- raised
15:27:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/31
15:27:22 <bblfish> Arnaud: that seems real
15:27:30 <bblfish> reopen issue-31
15:27:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-31 Proper Conformance section for LDP spec re-opened
15:27:34 <bblfish> issue-32?
15:27:34 <trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- How can clients discover that a resource is an LDPR or LDPC, and what features are supported? -- raised
15:27:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/32
15:28:09 <bblfish> q+
15:28:13 <oberger> issue-7?
15:28:13 <trackbot> ISSUE-7 -- What operations are permittered on containers and how do they get invoked? -- open
15:28:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/7
15:28:16 <MacTed> +1 open 32
15:28:23 <bblfish> q-
15:28:40 <deiu> +1 for 32
15:28:48 <bblfish> SteveS: some of these cases are already known...
15:28:55 <bblfish> ?
15:29:06 <bblfish> reopen issue-32
15:29:06 <trackbot> ISSUE-32 How can clients discover that a resource is an LDPR or LDPC, and what features are supported? re-opened
15:29:23 <bblfish> issue-33?
15:29:23 <trackbot> ISSUE-33 -- Pagination for non-container resources -- raised
15:29:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/33
15:29:41 <bblfish> reopen issue-33
15:29:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-33 Pagination for non-container resources re-opened
15:30:02 <bblfish> issue-34?
15:30:02 <trackbot> ISSUE-34 -- Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation -- raised
15:30:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/34
15:30:06 <bblfish> reopen issue-34
15:30:07 <trackbot> ISSUE-34 Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation re-opened
15:30:16 <bblfish> issue-35?
15:30:16 <trackbot> ISSUE-35 -- POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI -- raised
15:30:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/35
15:30:26 <bblfish> Arnaud: is that a different one richard?
15:30:48 <bblfish> cygri: yes, it is .... ?  (cygri please fill in your argument )
15:30:58 <bblfish> cygri: might just be editorial issue
15:31:53 <bblfish> SteveS and Stevebattle: should be opened
15:31:59 <cygri> s/yes, it is .... ?/i find the current language about assigning new URIs after POST-to-container too weak/
15:32:05 <bblfish> reopen issue-35
15:32:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-35 POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI re-opened
15:32:10 <stevebattle> wasn't me who said that
15:32:19 <cygri> s/(cygri please fill in your argument )/
15:32:49 <bblfish> Topic: Use Cases and requirements
15:33:14 <MacTed> s/SteveS and Stevebattle/SteveS and MacTed/
15:33:15 <bblfish> Arnaud: SteveS sadly missed the last afternoon of TPAC....
15:33:42 <Arnaud> s/steves/stevebattle/
15:33:53 <bblfish> SteveS: the UCR use cases should be closer to the POWDER use cases
15:34:23 <bblfish> SteveS: please let me know by mail if there is more I should do
15:34:37 <bblfish> ah damn
15:34:56 <bblfish> stevebattle: looked at POWDER
15:35:24 <oberger> URL of that one ?
15:35:30 <MacTed> s/SteveS: please let/stevebattle: please let/
15:35:32 <bblfish> ... I don't find POWDER to be particular clear about use cases - they seem to confuse use-cases and user stories
15:35:34 <cygri> q+
15:35:51 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/TR/powder-use-cases/
15:36:00 <bblfish> Arnaud: user stories should be moved after ...(?)
15:36:26 <bblfish> stevebattle: some of the user stories need more curating, and not all of even quality
15:36:49 <bblfish> stevebattle: the original authors should try bringing them up to the same quality
15:37:05 <bblfish> stevebattle: I have added a link to the approriate use case in the document
15:37:36 <bblfish> Arnaud: there is still a sense that the document needs a lot of work before it is publishing. Do you know what the group wants.
15:37:42 <bblfish> stevebattle: yes, not sure what the group wants
15:37:56 <bblfish> stevebattle: not much review of the use cases ( content ) themselves
15:38:07 <bblfish> stevebattle: would be good for people to review them
15:38:35 <bblfish> Arnaud: chicken and egg situation. let's see if we can get out of this deadlock
15:39:03 <cygri> q?
15:39:05 <bblfish> stevebattle: I have a meeting with steve s tomorrow, and then people can have a review over email after that
15:39:20 <bblfish> Arnaud: send an e-mail to the mailing list when things have cleared
15:39:28 <bblfish> ?
15:39:55 <bblfish> xxx: lots of good information there and we would then put remassage it and let the group know
15:40:12 <bblfish> Arnaud: where is the new content btw
15:40:20 <bblfish> stevebattle: it is in the examples section
15:40:49 <cygri> q-
15:40:57 <bblfish> ... more the content of the examples, without presuming the specification . Arnaud you told me to aproach the document as you have never seen it before.
15:41:13 <bblfish> Arnaud: it is indeed a challenge :-) It sounds like we have a plan
15:41:30 <bblfish> stevebattle: people can volunteer to co-edit
15:41:32 <Arnaud> q?
15:41:41 <bblfish> Arnaud: yes, please reach out to steve
15:41:53 <bblfish> Topic: Test suite and validator
15:42:04 <dret> another possible guidance for UCR: if we end up with functionality in the spec that's *not* asked for in UCR, then technically that is not required in the spec because it wasn't asked for.
15:42:06 <bblfish> Arnaud: we have a page for this
15:42:16 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing
15:42:23 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Validation
15:42:38 <bblfish> Arnaud: there can be a dependency between these pages
15:42:50 <stevebattle> q+
15:43:02 <oberger> hasn't alexandre asked for 29th ?
15:43:07 <bblfish> Arnaud: maybe we agree on a timeframe on when we close on this?
15:43:19 <oberger> s/29th/26th/
15:43:30 <bblfish> Arnaud: ah yes we allready agreed on this
15:43:48 <Arnaud> ack stevebattle
15:43:59 <bblfish> stevebattle: what level of input are you asking for
15:44:15 <bblfish> Arnaud: not at the level of asking for tests, but looking for framework for the tests
15:44:19 <oberger> the pages lack an introductory text
15:44:45 <bblfish> +1 for oberger
15:44:47 <Arnaud> q?
15:45:04 <bblfish> Topic: Access Control and use cases and Requirements
15:45:44 <bblfish> Ashok: I agree that access control is somewhat orthogonal to LData, and you are going to get lots of different styles of access control
15:46:01 <bblfish> ... depending on how the rdf is store and where it is stored and so on
15:46:09 <bblfish> ... we can add some core examples
15:46:25 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/AccessControl
15:46:30 <bblfish> Ashok: how are the access control pages identified
15:46:34 <bblfish> q+
15:46:41 <bblfish> ah ok
15:47:05 <bblfish> Ashok: henry (bblfish) can fill this out and so we can have the id and access control sections to fill it out
15:47:06 <oberger> bblfish, has the meeting doodle given any result ?
15:47:09 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
15:49:30 <oberger> is someone scribing ? ;)
15:49:54 <bblfish> Arnaud: henry can expand on WebID section
15:50:20 <bblfish> ... was expecting to go through a similar process as the other UCR
15:50:34 <bblfish> ... people should add something to this document
15:50:50 <bblfish> ... do we want to go through a laundry list of technoliogies
15:50:57 <bblfish> ... or how does one go up
15:51:26 <bblfish> ... what I'd like to see the document that lists the use cases and requirements, and then later different techs that can implement those
15:51:28 <bblfish> +1
15:51:28 <oberger> q+
15:52:21 <Arnaud> ack oberger
15:52:21 <bblfish> ack olivier
15:53:16 <bblfish> oberger: is the ownership notion of container is something that one should address in this UCR? (ACL) who is the entitiy or organisation responsible for deletion/ownership of resources
15:53:29 <bblfish> q+
15:53:46 <deiu> I would just like to make a suggestion: since access control enforcement takes place on the LDP provider (where data is hosted), could we at least see if we can add identity to LDPC/R? Something along the lines of "acl:owner" for LDPC/R.
15:54:27 <bblfish> oberger: in terms of intellectual property: so if you want to complain for a bug, who do you ask?
15:54:49 <stevebattle> Makes sense to think about resource centric ACLs
15:54:58 <dret> zakim, who's making noise?
15:54:59 <bblfish> Arnaud: we need to list the use cases, so perhaps this should be in the document
15:55:08 <Zakim> dret, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (36%), Arnaud (64%), bblfish (30%), oberger (50%)
15:55:25 <bblfish> ... so whether the spec deals with this is somewhat orthogonal at the moment
15:55:35 <bblfish> .... expanded on granularity of access control
15:55:47 <bblfish> ... in this area we need this level of access control
15:55:49 <bblfish> +1
15:56:04 <bblfish> Arnaud: do we need a time framew for this or leave it open
15:56:06 <Arnaud> q?
15:56:13 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
15:56:30 <bblfish> Arnaud: lets leave it open, but... go ahead and add use cases
15:57:22 <bblfish> Arnaud: 3 minutes left
15:57:23 <oberger> deiu, has your question on the ML be addressed wrt ACL ?
15:57:29 <bblfish> Topic: LDP specification
15:57:37 <deiu> oberger, yes, at least for now
15:57:45 <oberger> deiu, :-)
15:57:52 <bblfish> SteveS: the only one that is outstanding is issue-25
15:58:09 <bblfish> so I opened an action to make those changes as they were not small ( which action?)
15:58:21 <Ashok> q+
15:59:02 <bblfish> a number of comments on the spec, so I was going to take those editorial and type changes ... encourage the WG members to open those issues - or non WG to push WG members to do this
15:59:05 <Arnaud> ack ashok
15:59:23 <bblfish> Ashok: Steve with regeard to issue-7
15:59:26 <bblfish> issue-7?
15:59:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-7 -- What operations are permittered on containers and how do they get invoked? -- open
15:59:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/7
16:00:07 <oberger> Ashok, +1
16:00:20 <bblfish> Ashok: would it clearify things if ... ( ashok please fill in)
16:00:21 <stevebattle> q+
16:00:55 <bblfish> Arnaud: indeed it would be nice to have some high level discussion of how containers would work.
16:01:02 <bblfish> s/would/should/
16:01:15 <oberger> and details on the impact on graphs in discussions
16:01:19 <bblfish> Arnaud: how it works, what one can do to it, etc...
16:01:37 <stevebattle> q-
16:02:00 <bblfish> SteveS: issue-7 should be closed as it will be subsumed by issue-2x?
16:02:23 <bblfish> Arnaud: we should leverage other models that exist, and it does not have to be in the spec.
16:02:40 <bblfish> Ashok: it would help people if it were part of the spec
16:02:51 <Arnaud> q?
16:02:52 <dret> if that helps, i could try to create a "framework" that would allow us to better compare and contrast various approaches? in the end, the spec maybe should maybe use that structure to explain what we're doing and where it differs from existing models.
16:03:01 <bblfish> Arnaud: we are out of time, and we will leave it at that
16:03:37 <bblfish> Arnaud:  we are tackling this problem piecemeal without a clear idea what a general model is
16:03:50 <bblfish> q+
16:03:52 <oberger> s/model/graph/
16:03:58 <dret> +1, the model needs to be crystal-clear.
16:04:05 <deiu> +1 for that
16:04:37 <dret> thanks, Arnaud: file systems are very complicated and can behave very differently.
16:04:48 <bblfish> Arnaud: but file systems are different, and there a symbolic links
16:05:01 <SteveS> I will propose something to the list in coming days
16:05:01 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
16:05:02 <bblfish> Arnaud: ok thanks all, see you next week
16:05:11 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
16:05:16 <Ashok> Thanks, SteveS!
16:05:43 <stevebattle> bye
16:05:45 <oberger> see ya
16:05:46 <bblfish> Arnaud: mailing list has been closed to deal with the IP issues. There may also be too many cooks in kitchen
16:05:47 <dret> thanks!
16:05:50 <Zakim> -SteveS
16:05:52 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:05:53 <Zakim> -cygri
16:05:53 <Zakim> -roger
16:05:55 <bblfish> how do I close meeting
16:05:55 <Zakim> -dret
16:05:57 <Zakim> -Arnaud
16:05:59 <bblfish> meeting adjourned
16:05:59 <oberger> deiu, your turn is next ;)
16:06:03 <MacTed> trackbot, end meeting
16:06:03 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:06:04 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dret, MacTed, Arnaud, bblfish, SteveS, SteveBattle, oberger, +44.208.573.aaaa, JohnArwe, roger, nandana, Ashok_Malhotra, cygri
16:06:05 <bblfish> Zakim: meeting adj
16:06:08 <bblfish> Zakim: meeting adjourned
16:06:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:06:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/12-ldp-minutes.html trackbot
16:06:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:06:13 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:06:13 <Zakim> -bblfish
16:06:15 <Zakim> -oberger