15:57:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
15:57:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-rdf-wg-irc
15:57:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:57:51 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
15:57:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
15:57:53 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:57:54 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:57:54 <trackbot> Date: 07 November 2012
15:57:58 <AndyS> zakim, this is 73394
15:57:59 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
15:58:07 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:58:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a]
15:58:15 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
15:58:15 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:58:20 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:58:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, [IPcaller.a]
15:58:27 <Zakim> + +31.20.598.aaaa
15:58:29 <Zakim> +Tom_Baker (was [IPcaller.a])
15:58:32 <Zakim> - +31.20.598.aaaa
15:58:47 <Zakim> + +1.408.992.aabb
15:59:16 <Zakim> + +31.20.598.aacc
15:59:18 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
15:59:30 <gavinc> Zakim, GVoice is me
15:59:30 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
15:59:42 <Guus> zakim, +31.20.598 is me
15:59:43 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
15:59:43 <tbaker> zakim, Tom_Baker is the same as tbaker
15:59:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'Tom_Baker is the same as tbaker', tbaker
15:59:55 <Guus> chair: Guus
16:00:06 <tbaker> zakim, I am Tom_Baker
16:00:06 <Zakim> ok, tbaker, I now associate you with Tom_Baker
16:00:10 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
16:00:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Tom_Baker, +1.408.992.aabb, Guus, gavinc
16:00:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, AndyS, tbaker, gavinc, Guus, Arnaud, davidwood, ivan, gkellogg, MacTed, danbri, cygri, mischat, trackbot, manu, manu1, ericP
16:00:20 <Zakim> +Arnaud
16:00:32 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
16:00:46 <Zakim> +??P12
16:00:52 <gkellogg> zakim, ??P12 is me
16:00:52 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
16:01:08 <tbaker> off
16:01:17 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aadd
16:01:21 <Zakim> +??P14
16:01:27 <Arnaud> scribe: Arnaud
16:01:28 <ivan> zakim, aadd is me
16:01:28 <Zakim> +ivan; got it
16:01:33 <Zakim> +David_Wood
16:01:43 <Zakim> + +081165aaee
16:01:53 <moustaki> moustaki has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:04 <yvesr> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Tom_Baker, +1.408.992.aabb, Guus, gavinc, Arnaud, gkellogg, ivan, ??P14, David_Wood, +081165aaee
16:02:10 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:12 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P14 is me
16:02:12 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
16:02:13 <AZ> Zakim, aaee is me
16:02:14 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
16:02:25 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
16:02:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Tom_Baker, +1.408.992.aabb, Guus, gavinc, Arnaud, gkellogg, ivan, yvesr, David_Wood, AZ
16:02:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, yvesr, AZ, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, tbaker, gavinc, Guus, Arnaud, davidwood, ivan, gkellogg, MacTed, danbri, cygri, mischat, trackbot, manu, manu1, ericP
16:02:38 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaff
16:02:45 <Souri> zakim, aaff is me
16:02:45 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
16:02:54 <Guus> zakim, +1.408.992 is Peter
16:02:54 <Zakim> +Peter; got it
16:03:45 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:03:45 <Arnaud> topic Admin
16:03:51 <Arnaud> topic: Admin
16:04:03 <Arnaud> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 24 Oct telecon
16:04:12 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-wg
16:04:17 <Zakim> +??P22
16:04:19 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: minutes of the 24 Oct telecon accepted
16:04:29 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:04:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Tom_Baker, Peter, Guus, gavinc, Arnaud, gkellogg, ivan, yvesr, David_Wood, AZ, Souri, Sandro, ??P22
16:04:37 <pfps> zakim, Peter is me
16:04:37 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
16:04:44 <Arnaud> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of F2F3
16:05:38 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: minutes of F2F3 accepted
16:06:26 <Arnaud> subtopic: Review of action items
16:07:12 <Zakim> +MHausenblas
16:07:16 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
16:07:16 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
16:07:26 <Arnaud> guus: we need to go over the list of open issues and clean it up
16:07:37 <Arnaud> topic: Reflection on F2F3
16:08:18 <AndyS> Seems like a good idea.
16:08:21 <yvesr> it does
16:08:33 <Arnaud> guus: agenda was more focused on documents, should we do the same for teleconfs?
16:08:39 <davidwood> +1
16:09:01 <Arnaud> guus: hearing no objections, we will go with that
16:09:12 <cgreer> cgreer has joined #rdf-wg
16:09:16 <Arnaud> topic: Turtle LC
16:09:18 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
16:09:58 <Zakim> + +1.707.318.aagg
16:10:05 <Arnaud> gavinc: received one piece of feedback regarding a syntax error, waiting for feedback from I18N
16:10:08 <cgreer> zakim, aagg is me
16:10:09 <Zakim> +cgreer; got it
16:11:39 <Arnaud> guus: need to ensure we get greenlight from Tim
16:11:53 <Arnaud> ... need to write transition request and features at risk
16:11:58 <zwu2> can't dial in for whatever reason...
16:12:31 <davidwood> No comments regarding features at risk is tacit approval...
16:12:42 <Arnaud> guus: need to finalize all comments for next week, and we'll be fine
16:12:46 <gavinc> davidwood, oh then I should comment ;)
16:12:49 <Zakim> +EricP
16:13:31 <Zakim> + +1.603.438.aahh
16:13:54 <zwu2> zakim, +1.603.438.aahh is me
16:13:54 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
16:15:22 <Arnaud> guus: what about the test suite?
16:15:28 <ericP> ericP: [proposed points in the Turtle SOTD]:
16:15:39 <ericP> ... .. Stable spec (nothing at risk)
16:15:48 <ericP> ... .. deployed for a decade
16:15:56 <Zakim> +??P28
16:16:00 <ericP> ... .. comprehensive test suite
16:16:10 <gavinc> wasn't there an action on ericP to check for coverage?
16:16:16 <ericP> ... .. expect many implementations by the end of CR.
16:16:31 <ericP> gavinc, yep. haven't gotten to it
16:16:45 <AndyS> q+
16:16:46 <ivan> q+
16:16:58 <Guus> ack ivan
16:17:17 <Arnaud> ivan: if test cases aren't on w3c this isn't ideal but it's ok
16:17:20 <AndyS> ack me
16:17:32 <Guus> ack AndyS
16:18:20 <gavinc> I think we want them merged
16:18:44 <davidwood> +1 to merging
16:19:00 <gkellogg> q+
16:19:08 <Arnaud> discussion on whether different test cases should be merged into a consolidated suite
16:19:13 <yvesr> +1 to merging as well
16:19:41 <AndyS> ACTION Andy Put Turtle tests into W3C space.
16:19:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-206 - Put Turtle tests into W3C space. [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-11-14].
16:21:12 <gkellogg> q-
16:21:41 <Arnaud> gavinc: who has the action to write the document introducing the tests?
16:21:55 <AlexHall> AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
16:22:04 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aaii
16:22:08 <Arnaud> ... at the f2f we agreed to do it but not sure anyone got the action
16:22:32 <Arnaud> guus: needs it to be done for transition
16:23:43 <AndyS> ACTION Andy Do some documentation/README for the tests.
16:23:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-207 - Do some documentation/README for the tests. [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-11-14].
16:24:39 <cygri> q+
16:24:58 <Arnaud> gavinc: should we have links to proper sections in the spec?
16:25:11 <Arnaud> ... useful for implementers
16:25:27 <Guus> ack cygri
16:25:49 <Arnaud> cygri: have seen links to the test suite in the head of the document
16:26:05 <Arnaud> ... makes it easy to find
16:26:12 <ericP> +1 to test suite link in front matter (at least for CR)
16:26:13 <Arnaud> ... doesn't make it normative requirement
16:26:23 <Arnaud> guus: ok, we can discuss this later
16:26:46 <Arnaud> topic: Json-ld
16:26:55 <Zakim> +Sandro.a
16:27:09 <Arnaud> gkellogg: updated issues for what came up at f2f
16:27:10 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:27:22 <Arnaud> ... group elected to go into a feature freeze
16:27:41 <ivan> +1 to a feature freeze
16:27:54 <Arnaud> ... re: syntax, more work on language maps
16:28:26 <Arnaud> ... providing for graph syntax or dataset syntax
16:28:58 <Arnaud> ... preference is not to create different mediatypes
16:29:03 <cygri> using TriG in SPARQL's FROM or FROM NAMED … ouch, my brain!
16:29:27 <Arnaud> ... in the api, lots of feedback, proposal to rename the document as json-ld processing
16:29:39 <Arnaud> ... idl bit could be moved to an appendix
16:29:47 <Arnaud> ... so focus would be on the processing rules
16:29:51 <Guus>       q?
16:29:52 <cygri> q+
16:30:07 <Guus> ack cygri
16:30:18 <Zakim> -David_Wood
16:30:56 <Arnaud> cygri: want to stress the importance of the issue about the default graph
16:31:14 <Arnaud> ... hasn't been properly discussed so far
16:31:21 <sandro> sandro has joined #rdf-wg
16:31:37 <Arnaud> ... wants to get a new draft of concepts out and it would be good to know what it needs to say
16:31:53 <Arnaud> gkellogg: agree
16:31:59 <sandro> +1 cygri: there's serious potential for confusion on this, if we con-neg between turtle and json-ld, and json-ld is also a dataset syntax.
16:32:38 <Arnaud> ... another issue re: concepts, rdf transformation was based on the assumption that concept of quad would be defined, not sure that's the case
16:32:54 <gavinc> N-Quads has something of the same issue
16:33:14 <gavinc> Empty graphs suck :(
16:33:36 <Arnaud> sandro: yes, this would be useful to define
16:34:03 <Arnaud> topic: Review of issue list
16:34:20 <sandro> every dataset without empty named graphs corresponds 1-1 to a set of quads-and-triples, etc.
16:35:55 <Arnaud> cygri: issue-93, think problem is addressed
16:35:59 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/97
16:36:06 <Arnaud> az: yes, that's fine
16:37:54 <Arnaud> az: agree we can close issue-97
16:38:20 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-93
16:38:30 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-97
16:38:49 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/103
16:38:52 <AZ> AZ: we agreed with Pat that we do not have to do anything and close ISSUE-97
16:39:28 <Arnaud> cygri: re: issue-103, pushed back
16:39:39 <cygri> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Nov/0046.html
16:39:48 <Arnaud> ... this is not relevant to concepts
16:39:54 <ivan> q+
16:39:56 <Arnaud> ... markus accepted
16:40:11 <Guus> ack ivan
16:40:16 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-103
16:40:42 <Arnaud> ivan: since this is about good practice, this should be included in the primer
16:41:12 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/91
16:41:20 <Arnaud> cygri: two more issues could be closed
16:41:45 <Arnaud> ... 91 is mostly editorial issues
16:42:13 <Arnaud> ... believe this can be closed
16:42:25 <Arnaud> ... up to Pat and Gavin to complain if necessary
16:42:34 <gavinc> I'm think those issues are resolved
16:42:41 <Arnaud> guus: gavin? what do you think?
16:42:59 <Arnaud> gavinc: with opening of the new issue that's fine
16:43:09 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-91
16:43:50 <Arnaud> cygri: confused issue-93 with issue-94 earlier
16:44:25 <AZ> anywway, it's ok to close both issues, so no problem
16:44:33 <Zakim> -danbri
16:44:54 <Arnaud> cygri: but believe we can also close 94
16:45:07 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:45:23 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-94
16:45:35 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/96
16:46:01 <Arnaud> cygri: made editorial changes to address issue-96
16:46:13 <Arnaud> ... about custom datatypes and adding references
16:46:49 <Arnaud> ... think we can close this too
16:47:35 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-96
16:47:56 <Arnaud> guus: we're left with 19 issues
16:48:11 <Arnaud> cygri: 3 are on concepts
16:48:33 <Arnaud> ... none of them are completely essential for producing a new WD
16:49:03 <cygri> list here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Oct/0234.html
16:49:03 <Arnaud> guus: somebody needs to split the comments per section of the document
16:49:16 <Arnaud> ... any volunteer?
16:49:31 <gavinc> +q new issue on HTMLLiteral
16:49:33 <Arnaud> ... will try to do it next week
16:49:41 <gavinc> +q to ask about a new issue on HTMLLiteral
16:49:55 <Arnaud> guus: what's the timeline for WD?
16:50:09 <Arnaud> cygri: can provide a draft for review for next week
16:50:33 <cygri> s/for next week/in two weeks/
16:50:51 <Arnaud> :)
16:51:09 <gavinc> q?
16:51:26 <cygri> ACTION: cygri to provide draft of Concepts for WG review until 2012-11-21
16:51:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-208 - Provide draft of Concepts for WG review until 2012-11-21 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2012-11-14].
16:51:33 <cygri> ACTION-208?
16:51:33 <trackbot> ACTION-208 -- Richard Cyganiak to provide draft of Concepts for WG review until 2012-11-21 -- due 2012-11-14 -- OPEN
16:51:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/208
16:51:43 <Arnaud> gavinc: one more question about rdf concepts
16:51:54 <Arnaud> ... tried to implement the new html literal type
16:52:03 <gavinc> https://gist.github.com/4032791
16:52:04 <Arnaud> ... don't think it works
16:52:15 <Zakim> -EricP
16:52:26 <Arnaud> ... doesn't exist a standard way of parsing a fragment of html
16:52:32 <Arnaud> s/of/for/
16:53:04 <ivan> q+
16:53:15 <Arnaud> ... don't think we can have htmlliteral rely on parsing an html fragment
16:54:19 <Arnaud> ... in practice you rely need to use an xmlliteral
16:54:28 <Arnaud> s/rely/really/
16:54:48 <Arnaud> ivan: used htmllib, didn't have any problems
16:54:55 <gavinc> <http://example.org/books/1> dc:description """This is a <em>really</em> cool book"""^^rdf:HTMLLiteral .
16:55:00 <gavinc> becomes <html><head></head><body>This is a <em>really</em> cool book</body></html>
16:55:03 <Arnaud> ... so not sure there is a problem
16:55:39 <Arnaud> ... but had to implement ??? separately
16:56:20 <Zakim> +EricP
16:56:21 <Arnaud> ... htmllib has the concept of html fragment
16:56:30 <Arnaud> ... gets a dom node I can work with
16:56:46 <Arnaud> gavinc: will do more research and post to the mailing list
16:56:58 <Arnaud> guus: any other business?
16:57:13 <Zakim> -ivan
16:57:14 <AZ> bye
16:57:15 <Arnaud> meeting adjourned
16:57:15 <Zakim> -Tom_Baker
16:57:17 <Zakim> -Sandro.a
16:57:18 <Zakim> -EricP
16:57:18 <Zakim> -cygri
16:57:19 <Zakim> -Souri
16:57:19 <Zakim> -danbri
16:57:20 <Zakim> -pfps
16:57:20 <Zakim> -??P22
16:57:21 <Zakim> -gkellogg
16:57:21 <Zakim> -Arnaud
16:57:23 <Zakim> -yvesr
16:57:23 <Zakim> -AZ
16:57:24 <Zakim> -gavinc
16:57:24 <Zakim> -Guus
16:57:24 <Zakim> -AlexHall
16:57:25 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:57:26 <AlexHall> AlexHall has left #rdf-wg
16:57:29 <AndyS> AndyS has left #rdf-wg
16:57:39 <gavinc> ivan, yeah this gets to the edges of what currently exists
16:57:50 <Zakim> -zwu2
16:58:28 <gavinc> I think it's likely worth having HTMLLiteral as it should in a reasonably sane world work
16:58:50 <gavinc> but I'm not sure it's inter-operable yet :D
16:59:09 <Zakim> -cgreer
16:59:11 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
16:59:11 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, +31.20.598.aaaa, Tom_Baker, +1.408.992.aabb, +31.20.598.aacc, gavinc, Guus, Arnaud, gkellogg, +1.617.324.aadd, ivan, David_Wood, +081165aaee, yvesr, AZ,
16:59:11 <Zakim> ... +1.603.897.aaff, Souri, Sandro, pfps, cygri, +1.707.318.aagg, cgreer, EricP, zwu2, danbri, +1.443.212.aaii, AlexHall
17:01:26 <gavinc> ivan, my understanding is that "fragment" parsing is somewhat defined by innerHTML
17:19:02 <markus> markus has joined #rdf-wg
17:47:46 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #rdf-wg
18:01:07 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #rdf-wg
18:07:42 <manu> ivan, sandro - JSON-LD chat at 3pm?
18:09:04 <ivan> Fine with me, I am not sure for sandro
18:11:00 <sandro> sorry, no
19:00:02 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-wg
19:06:27 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
19:39:37 <Arnaud1> Arnaud1 has joined #rdf-wg