IRC log of rd on 2012-11-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:21:58 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rd
14:21:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:22:00 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:22:00 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rd
14:22:02 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7394
14:22:02 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()8:30AM scheduled to start 52 minutes ago
14:22:03 [trackbot]
Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:22:03 [trackbot]
Date: 07 November 2012
14:26:04 [sloandr]
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14:26:23 [Kerstin]
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14:28:51 [peter]
peter has joined #rd
14:29:00 [shawn]
shawn has joined #rd
14:29:07 [markel]
markel has joined #rd
14:31:05 [christos]
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14:31:08 [peter]
The Zakim voip number seams to be ignoring me - is anyone else getting through (just endless ringing
14:31:15 [Yehya]
Yehya has joined #rd
14:31:55 [peter]
shawn: Oh ok ty :-)
14:32:39 [shadi]
peter, you should have gotten a mail from me with you personal code
14:33:19 [annika]
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14:33:34 [shadi]
markel, we hear you
14:34:30 [markel]
Am I the only one having problems to access?
14:34:36 [annika]
14:34:56 [Kerstin]
14:34:57 [annika]
I try to connect via the sip option
14:35:04 [annika]
but I doesn't work
14:35:09 [shawn]
shawn has changed the topic to: Trying different teleconference system today. check your email for subject: "RDWG Teleconference Details for Wednesday 7 November 2012"
14:35:21 [markel]
I'm trying also through the SIP option
14:36:20 [markel]
When I connect I only hear 1 second of your talk and then it gets muted
14:36:22 [shawn]
[with this teleconference system, /me misses the notifications of people joining!]
14:38:44 [shadi]
hey folks, the * is NOT part of the code!
14:40:17 [shadi]
annika you were briefly on...
14:40:37 [shadi]
14:40:41 [shawn]
ACTION: shadi, if use this teleconference system, include intructions for dialing in with Skype (Call menu...). Also no "*" with the code number.
14:40:41 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find shadi,. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
14:40:51 [shawn]
ACTION: shadi if use this teleconference system, include intructions for dialing in with Skype (Call menu...). Also no "*" with the code number.
14:40:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-32 - If use this teleconference system, include intructions for dialing in with Skype (Call menu...). Also no "*" with the code number. [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2012-11-14].
14:40:51 [Kerstin]
Am i muted now?
14:40:53 [Yehya]
14:42:51 [shadi]
scribe: Peter
14:42:51 [peter]
Zakim, scribe is me
14:42:51 [Zakim]
sorry, peter, I do not recognize a party named 'scribe'
14:42:53 [shawn]
14:43:13 [silvia]
silvia has joined #rd
14:43:26 [shawn]
[/me misses "zakim, who is making noise"]
14:43:54 [giorgio_]
I'm connected through SIP
14:44:01 [giorgio_]
my issue.
14:44:27 [shawn]
[ftr, 3 out of 4 had trouble connecting with SIP...]
14:45:00 [shawn]
[SIP user has poor audio quality]
14:45:10 [shadi]
mute / unmute using *1
14:45:21 [markel]
indeed, poor quality
14:45:35 [shawn]
[/me misses ability to tell whether or not she is muted!!!]
14:45:42 [annika]
annika has joined #rd
14:46:28 [markel]
we sound terrible with this system :-)
14:46:32 [shawn]
14:46:49 [shawn]
agenda+ (for the end) teleconference system debrief
14:47:27 [shawn]
Topic: Text Customization for Readability
14:47:31 [shawn]
14:48:42 [silvia]
sorry, I'm only on IRC today
14:50:56 [peter]
shawn: posted papers and invitation for additional contributions
14:51:27 [shawn]
14:51:30 [peter]
… David and I have the agenda which is the content for the call from papers
14:52:18 [peter]
… we've been going back and forth by email, David did an analysis for which papers address which questions
14:53:04 [peter]
david: so we have 3 topics with sub topics, so we could just ask those questions to the related authors -or- we could be more specific "In your paper you said this statement..can you elaborate.."
14:53:10 [peter]
… that is our current debate
14:53:31 [shawn]
ROUGH DRAFT of potential specific questions:
14:53:32 [shawn]
(paper r2) Discovering Typographic Environments for Reading with Low Vision
14:53:32 [shawn]
[agenda: 3. Integrating functionality] Question: Typometric Rx is presented primarily as a research tool. How usable will it be for the "average" web user? Will they be able to use this tool to create custom user style sheets or other?
14:53:32 [shawn]
(paper r11) Optimal Colors to Improve Readability for People with Dyslexia
14:53:33 [shawn]
[2. Understanding needs] Question: How do your findings support or refute the position stated in the The Need for Text Customisation <> that there is not a single (color combination) that will meet most users' needs?
14:53:33 [shawn]
[3. Integrating] Question: Discuss the implications of: "Our results suggest that text customization preferences needs to be complemented by quantitative data from actual reading performance since we found no correlation between the reading performance and the personal choice of the users." Are you suggesting that users should use the text display that has better reading performance based on
14:53:34 [shawn]
qualitative data, rather than their personal choice?
14:53:34 [shawn]
[4. Moving forward] Question: What practical application do you see as the result of these studies? Ideally, how would this impact web tool and web page design?
14:53:34 [shawn]
(paper t8) The development of a text customization tool for existing web sites
14:53:35 [shawn]
[agenda: 4. Moving forward, b. What functionality in products] Question: You say: "we realize the importance of detailed customization, and this part is under construction. The customization will address options like: text size, text color, background color, font, character, line and paragraph spacing, column width." How will you determine what options to provide? What additional inputs (specific
14:53:35 [shawn]
user studies, etc.) will help you make that determination?
14:53:35 [shawn]
(paper t6) How feasible is text customization for PDF documents?
14:53:35 [shawn]
[agenda: 3. Integrating functionality] Question: Please explain your statement: "A tagged PDF may contain custom tags whereas custom tags are not a known concept in HTML." Can these custom tags not be converted to HTML class or ID?
14:54:17 [peter]
… so it's really managing the jump for what people wrote about it to organising the the 2 hours..
14:54:53 [peter]
… I wonder if there are other opinions and whether it's appropriate to ask each question in the agenda (order) generally and wait for responses or notify authors in advance
14:54:58 [shadi]
14:55:02 [shadi]
14:55:35 [annika]
14:55:59 [shawn]
ack a
14:56:01 [shadi]
ack a
14:56:07 [peter]
anika: I think that's exactly the issue posing the question: mainly logistics
14:56:24 [peter]
shadi: let's focus on the meeting and debrief at the end
14:56:33 [shawn]
14:56:36 [shawn]
ack me
14:57:00 [peter]
shawn: but what I think anika was saying is .. whatever system we use having it more open is challenging
14:57:14 [peter]
anika: not just the logistics, it's the timing issue, gaps..
14:57:23 [peter]
.. rather tight schedule already
14:57:29 [shawn]
+1 to annika
14:57:39 [peter]
… to make better use of the time, assigning the questions before hand might be best
14:57:55 [peter]
shadi: sorry, I misunderstood - so asking a specific question may be more efficient?
14:58:01 [peter]
anika: yes
14:58:01 [Kerstin]
14:58:16 [peter]
… just on the phone without visual feedback it's hard to know who goes first..
14:58:57 [peter]
??: you present a wide range of questions where I would love to hear all the answers - do you plan to assign an open question to all panelists?
14:59:23 [peter]
shawn: we haven't discussed adding an additional question to all panelists
14:59:29 [markel]
14:59:38 [peter]
… dave did an analysis on which questions fit which author
14:59:43 [peter]
… can you clarify?
14:59:51 [peter]
??: regarding the e2read
15:00:02 [sloandr]
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15:00:12 [peter]
… we plan to ask a question to all panellists - a transfer to standards guidelines/tools
15:00:18 [shawn]
s/??: you present /Kerstin: you present /
15:00:31 [peter]
… all panellists could answer the prepared quesitons
15:00:32 [peter]
15:00:39 [shawn]
s/??: regarding/Kerstin: regarding/
15:00:48 [peter]
15:01:09 [peter]
shawn: we hadn't thought of a broad question for everybody - the papers are very different
15:01:44 [peter]
… so we had discussed making sure if we chose the way to have specific questions for papers to make sure that we had at least one question for each paper that would go in the categories as opposed to one question for all
15:01:54 [peter]
… if anyone has suggestions that would great
15:02:06 [peter]
david: challenge in dealing with the diversity of the submissions
15:02:22 [shawn]
ack k
15:02:49 [peter]
… we're really just matching a type of paper and knowledge with the question we would like to have answered
15:03:02 [peter]
… and two hours is not a lot of time if we have to add a questions to everyone
15:03:12 [shawn]
+1 to Dave
15:03:21 [peter]
… the challenge is to make this as efficient as possible
15:03:32 [shawn]
ack m
15:03:33 [peter]
markel: I generally agree with matching papers to questions
15:03:42 [peter]
… making the symposium more coherent
15:04:01 [peter]
… I also agree with David ..
15:04:03 [shawn]
q+ to say open questions at end? at end of each subtopic
15:04:19 [peter]
… I would give priority to the matching from Dave but also to remaining authors to give an opinion
15:04:20 [shawn]
q+ to say ALSO logistics of participant questions
15:04:23 [peter]
… good use of time..
15:04:33 [peter]
David: and should we do that in advance? here is a list of topics..
15:04:50 [peter]
… or do we leave it to the day..
15:05:02 [peter]
markel: the 1st symposium we sent the questions in advance
15:05:14 [shadi]
15:05:37 [shawn]
ack me
15:05:37 [Zakim]
shawn, you wanted to say open questions at end? at end of each subtopic and to say ALSO logistics of participant questions
15:05:38 [peter]
…depends on the contributors, you may miss freshness on the responses, and it may be challenging for those who's first language is not English
15:05:50 [peter]
shawn: thinking about the organisation of things
15:06:08 [peter]
…1) open question at the end of each sub topic and then open question
15:06:30 [peter]
…2) think about the logistics of participant questions, do we want to take participant questions at the end of each sub topic..
15:06:45 [peter]
… any suggestions or comments are welcome
15:06:56 [peter]
markel: i think you can allocate a time for each quesitons
15:07:03 [peter]
15:07:19 [shadi]
ack me
15:07:48 [peter]
shadi: I was thinking.. tell the authors this is what we want to contribute to such and such…
15:08:07 [peter]
… perhaps not a specific question but the role we'd hope they would play..
15:08:17 [peter]
… just to plan more precisely to get out of each paper
15:08:31 [peter]
… leave the specific questions .. depending on how the discussion goes
15:09:19 [peter]
… another thing, a general questions, it might also be possible at the end on a voluntary basis, for the wrap up, "we'd still like more information on such and such…" and participants is free to send comments to the list..
15:09:40 [peter]
shawn: i added this to the agenda (last item)
15:10:23 [Kerstin]
looking forward to TC4R symposium
15:10:58 [peter]
david: one of the things we were discussing was inviting other individuals - a question to the group
15:11:18 [peter]
… we have a panel who reviewed the paper and we'd hope as many as possible would be present on the day
15:11:54 [peter]
… if we can target individuals that we think the symposium should record and use in the output..
15:12:20 [peter]
shawn: so a specific request would be - if you know anyone who may have something to contribute..
15:12:22 [shawn]
request : send them Invitation for short contributions to Text Customization for Readability Online Symposium <>
15:12:28 [shawn]
15:12:31 [shawn]
ack me
15:13:03 [peter]
… one of the other questions would be - basically saying if you send it by monday we can more easily incorporate into the symposium plan..
15:13:15 [peter]
… anytime in November is still possible
15:14:21 [peter]
… if there is someone that has a significant contribution would it be appropriate to invite them to comment during the main part of the symposium
15:14:39 [peter]
shadi: I know a couple of you have organised a couple of panels ..
15:14:47 [peter]
… they should not be treated on the lvl as the authors..
15:14:58 [peter]
… but at the same time they contributed more than some of the other participans
15:15:01 [peter]
15:15:07 [peter]
15:15:32 [peter]
… the whole thing also shouldn't seem to scripted..
15:15:37 [peter]
… opinions?
15:15:38 [annika]
15:15:59 [peter]
markel: I think it depends on how you can attribute credit to that person, if she gives an opinion...
15:16:07 [peter]
… not sure on the extent that can be sited
15:16:24 [peter]
15:16:38 [peter]
… if we want to be lenient we can incorporate their name in the research note
15:17:02 [peter]
shawn: we would expect that would be for people who had already submitted their comments to the public list
15:17:12 [annika]
15:17:28 [peter]
markel: so the call for contribution is to the mailing list?
15:17:31 [peter]
shawn: yes
15:18:07 [peter]
… I don't think we would ask.. if we open it up to participants anyone can speak up but I don't think we'd ask someone specifically to comment on something unless they submitted something to the public list
15:18:16 [peter]
shadi: we need to close this now because of time
15:19:16 [peter]
… I think logistically this idea could be difficult..
15:19:17 [peter]
… the authors are put in a position .. they are the main contributors, we don't want to promote late comers..
15:19:26 [peter]
… esp. people that have position papers..
15:19:39 [peter]
… and that participation can come from the floor..
15:19:42 [markel]
15:19:51 [peter]
markel: I agree
15:20:17 [shawn]
ack m
15:20:29 [peter]
… depends on the expectations.. I don't think there will expectations for credit based on one comment
15:20:40 [peter]
shadi: I think the authors should be credited differently..
15:20:59 [peter]
… you might reference some random blog that has interesting content that matches..
15:21:18 [peter]
… I think it's a different kind of referencing for information that is captured on line
15:21:36 [peter]
… a different sort of citing to authors work..
15:22:30 [peter]
david: would it be appropriate if the symposium output report.. and I acknowledge the importance of credit to authors.. but it could be that we have an acknowledgement at the end of the report to mention anyone that gave useful input during the or after the symposium
15:22:40 [peter]
shadi: no I think that's usual
15:23:01 [peter]
… we can talk later.. we can differentiate between the different levels of contribution
15:23:28 [peter]
Zakim, agenda next
15:23:28 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'agenda next', peter
15:23:43 [peter]
next agenda
15:24:09 [peter]
kersten: update - regarding the easy to read symposium - accepted 14 papers, notified the authors..
15:24:11 [shadi]
Topic: Easy to Read on the Web Symposium
15:24:30 [peter]
… 14 papers is a lot, we had intense discussions regarding the amount of panelists we'd like to involve
15:24:46 [peter]
… we decided that all can enrich the symposium from their point of view
15:24:55 [peter]
… this is the reason for the large number
15:25:07 [peter]
… we decided to separate the symposium into 3 parts
15:25:29 [peter]
…1) guidelines, 1 or 2 broad questions, and motivate further questions from the audience
15:25:50 [peter]
… we have more questions to ask the panellists if little participation from the audience
15:26:05 [peter]
… 2) tools: how to integrate easy to read to the web
15:26:21 [peter]
… we have 7 papers (quite a lot) we plan to make 60 minutes for this part (quite a lot)
15:26:40 [peter]
… 3) work flow processes service: we have 4 papers, and should last about 30 minutes
15:26:52 [peter]
… we hope to manage this challenge
15:27:00 [peter]
… understand so far?
15:27:07 [peter]
shadi: so you plan to go for 3 hours
15:27:21 [peter]
kersten: in general a panel disc. for 2 hours, and further hour for a further discussion
15:27:49 [peter]
… we plan to collect questions from the audience, if the time is not enough, we'd like to add the third hour to discuss these/this question(s)
15:28:07 [peter]
… we also discussed the issue of writing the authors and asking them to prepare their questions in a written format
15:28:20 [peter]
… we couldn't decide, so we'll probably do the same as in text customization
15:28:33 [peter]
… should we ask the panelists to prepare the questions in a written format?
15:28:41 [peter]
shadi: thoughts?
15:29:03 [peter]
… I'm wondering if this might be a longer discussion which might be kept for next week? any quick thoughts/responses?
15:29:35 [peter]
kersten: we got the feedback from s/he that s/he would like to prepare for the questions and would like to be well prepared
15:29:37 [giorgio_]
15:30:00 [peter]
shadi: i think in the past when we discussed pre-written questions - worries of it sounding to scripted
15:30:05 [shadi]
ack g
15:30:20 [peter]
giorgio: general questions, 3 hours may be a lot of time to commit to an online conference
15:30:41 [peter]
… (breaking up)
15:31:19 [annika]
15:31:29 [annika]
ack me
15:31:33 [peter]
… (sorry giorgio didn't get it)
15:31:54 [peter]
anika: we could leave this up to the authors, some people who like to know advance, could get these..
15:32:12 [peter]
… or allow authors to answer during the symposium
15:32:23 [giorgio_]
giorgio said that "the event is already 3 hours long, and thus not so involving. If people have t provide outout in written form then it is going to be even less involving"
15:32:40 [peter]
shadi: I think this is important to continue - I think one of the issues is that when people read out their answers is less involving
15:33:03 [peter]
… one thing to play around with is .. why you have them on the panel kind of thing..
15:33:29 [peter]
… helpful for participants to prepare..
15:33:42 [peter]
… you could prepare more generic questions..
15:33:54 [markel]
guys I have to leave.
15:33:57 [markel]
15:34:08 [peter]
kersten: we thought about preparing broad questions to the panelists which could be interesting for the audience
15:34:17 [peter]
… then following with open questions
15:34:23 [peter]
… thank you for your ideas
15:34:33 [peter]
shadi: might be a good idea to go to the list
15:34:45 [peter]
… I'll ask simon to schedule more time for easy to read next week
15:35:03 [peter]
… one more question, do we want to use the distribution list for anything?
15:35:16 [peter]
… we have low registration numbers so far
15:35:39 [shawn]
ack me
15:35:46 [peter]
… how do we use the distribution list and we probably don't want to send two emails through this
15:36:06 [peter]
shawn: didn't understand the question
15:36:40 [peter]
shadi: we have the list that we send the list for the call to participation - do we want to use those to get more participants involved..
15:37:19 [peter]
shawn: I would like to use the distribution list .. maybe the ones who send to the respective list could consider whether it would be appropriate to send the invitation
15:37:24 [peter]
… and send one..
15:37:56 [peter]
… for text customisation use zakim?
15:38:07 [peter]
… and use this system for larger participation?
15:38:27 [peter]
shadi: Kersten action to send to the list pre-prepared questions
15:38:43 [peter]
… shawn: if you could ask Yeliz, Klause, about respective lists
15:39:03 [annika]
15:39:14 [peter]
ps: mobile note is being worked on.. :-)
15:39:14 [annika]
annika has left #rd
15:39:27 [shadi]
15:39:47 [peter]
cheers (and sorry Kerstin for spelling your name wrong :-)
15:39:51 [shadi]
trackbot, end meeting
15:39:51 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
15:39:51 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
15:39:53 [silvia]
bye bye
15:39:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:39:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
15:40:00 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
15:40:00 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in :
15:40:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shadi, if use this teleconference system, include intructions for dialing in with Skype (Call menu...). Also no "*" with the code number. [1]
15:40:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:40:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shadi if use this teleconference system, include intructions for dialing in with Skype (Call menu...). Also no "*" with the code number. [2]
15:40:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in