IRC log of i18n on 2012-11-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:58:44 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #i18n
15:58:44 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:58:48 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #i18n
15:58:56 [aphillip]
trackbot, prepare teleconference
15:58:58 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:59:00 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 4186
15:59:01 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:01 [trackbot]
Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
15:59:01 [trackbot]
Date: 07 November 2012
15:59:16 [aphillip]
15:59:29 [aphillip]
Chair: Addison Phillips
15:59:29 [aphillip]
Scribe: Addison Phillips
15:59:29 [aphillip]
ScribeNick: aphillips
16:00:01 [Zakim]
I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
16:00:08 [Zakim]
16:00:19 [r12a]
zakim, dial richard
16:00:19 [Zakim]
ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:00:20 [Zakim]
16:01:39 [Zakim]
16:01:54 [Zakim]
16:02:17 [matial]
zakim, ??p18 is me
16:02:17 [Zakim]
+matial; got it
16:03:05 [aphillip]
tpacbot, bye
16:03:43 [aphillip]
Regrets: Norbert
16:03:58 [aphillip]
zakim, tell tpacbot to go away
16:03:58 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'tell tpacbot to go away', aphillip
16:04:20 [r12a]
kill tpacbot
16:04:32 [r12a]
tpacbot, die
16:05:12 [David]
David has joined #i18n
16:06:00 [r12a]
zakim, who's here?
16:06:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fsasaki (muted), Richard.a, Addison_Phillips, matial (muted)
16:06:02 [Zakim]
On IRC I see David, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, matial, r12apad, fsasaki, r12a, tpacbot, trackbot
16:06:08 [aphillip]
Topic: Agenda and Minutes
16:06:19 [aphillip]
Topic: Action Items
16:06:57 [aphillip]
Update qa-byte-order-mark document
16:07:10 [aphillip]
Prepare some examples of ITS2NIF showing NFC issue for consideration next week
16:07:30 [Zakim]
+ +44.141.888.aaaa
16:07:46 [r12a]
zakim, +44 is Dave
16:07:46 [Zakim]
+Dave; got it
16:07:51 [r12a]
zakim, mute Dave
16:07:51 [Zakim]
Dave should now be muted
16:07:54 [DavidClarke]
DavidClarke has joined #i18n
16:08:05 [aphillip]
close ACTION-145
16:08:05 [trackbot]
ACTION-145 Prepare some examples of ITS2NIF showing NFC issue for consideration next week closed
16:08:05 [r12a]
David, I just muted you on IRC
16:08:13 [aphillip]
close ACTION-147
16:08:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-147 Send TPAC registration reminder closed
16:08:17 [r12a]
because of echo
16:08:48 [aphillip]
close ACTION-152
16:08:48 [trackbot]
ACTION-152 Write summary of before/after issue for consideration by WG closed
16:08:50 [r12a]
16:08:55 [aphillip]
close ACTION-153
16:08:55 [trackbot]
ACTION-153 Reserve time on zakim for tpac calls closed
16:09:05 [aphillip]
close ACTION-154
16:09:05 [trackbot]
ACTION-154 Send invites to HTML editors to coordinate with richard over tpac meeting closed
16:09:13 [aphillip]
close ACTION-155
16:09:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-155 Update our time to 4 PM UTC closed
16:09:24 [aphillip]
Write tests for unicode-bidi: isolate
16:10:14 [aphillip]
matial: there is a group in israel for writing tests like this
16:10:29 [aphillip]
... maybe give to them?
16:10:35 [aphillip]
... talk to Aharon
16:10:41 [aphillip]
richard: good idea
16:11:06 [r12a]
ACTION: Richard to contact Aharon about creating tests for unicode-bidi: isolate
16:11:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-158 - Contact Aharon about creating tests for unicode-bidi: isolate [on Richard Ishida - due 2012-11-14].
16:11:12 [r12a]
close ACTION-156
16:11:12 [trackbot]
ACTION-156 Write tests for unicode-bidi: isolate closed
16:11:38 [aphillip]
Tell CSS about WG consensus on case folding
16:11:48 [aphillip]
richard: told relevant people but not writing yet
16:12:23 [aphillip]
... Tab asked a complex question I didn't know answer to
16:12:54 [aphillip]
Topic: Info Share
16:13:27 [aphillip]
Topic: TPAC fallout?
16:14:25 [aphillip]
richard: first two days I sat in reception and accosted people
16:14:40 [aphillip]
... met a GOOG engineer mgr from JP
16:14:47 [aphillip]
... talked about ruby model in HTML5
16:15:01 [aphillip]
... he had requirements to implement double-sided ruby
16:15:29 [aphillip]
addison: I'm also keen on double-sided ruby
16:15:42 [aphillip]
richard: also spoke to opera about impl
16:15:49 [aphillip]
... also got some contacts to chase at apple
16:16:17 [aphillip]
richard: html planning to go to CR in about a week
16:18:04 [aphillip]
richard: had a session with html5 wg
16:18:13 [aphillip]
... half of session taken up by talking about ruby
16:18:25 [aphillip]
... and there was take up by html folk
16:18:47 [matial]
Sound has become very sporadic
16:18:48 [aphillip]
... and fantasai + robin berjon have task to re-write ruby as an HTML5 extension
16:19:30 [aphillip]
addison: she's interested in complex ruby?
16:19:48 [aphillip]
richard: right. concerned that this may put existing stuff at risk?
16:19:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:20:15 [aphillip]
... they will try to fast track proposal so implementers can get to fast
16:20:47 [fsasaki]
16:20:53 [aphillip]
ack fsasaki
16:21:16 [aphillip]
felix: talked to kobayashi
16:21:26 [aphillip]
... attending upcoming epub workshop in NY
16:22:07 [aphillip]
... some people are aware of issues
16:22:16 [aphillip]
... would be good if folks attended workshop
16:23:18 [aphillip]
... February workship I think?
16:23:32 [aphillip]
richard: presentation about bidi to HTML5
16:23:45 [aphillip]
... two new values of @dir
16:24:09 [aphillip]
... current description seemed asymmetric
16:24:19 [aphillip]
... and there were problems with using <bdi>
16:24:39 [aphillip]
... particularly microformats
16:24:44 [aphillip]
... so Aharon wrote a blog post draft
16:24:52 [aphillip]
... will publish soon
16:25:08 [aphillip]
... don't want to get rid of it
16:25:13 [aphillip]
s/rid of it/rid of <bdi>/
16:25:40 [aphillip]
... but really we want a way to get isolation without putting <bdi> everywhere
16:26:11 [aphillip]
... Unicode adding LRI, RLI, FSI, and PDI
16:26:28 [aphillip]
... so implications to markup and css
16:27:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:28:18 [aphillip]
richard: wean authors off rtl/ltr to use the isolates
16:28:48 [aphillip]
... names not settled
16:28:52 [aphillip]
... and rewrite articles
16:29:07 [aphillip]
... would reduce size a lot
16:29:35 [aphillip]
... html5 folks suggested new attribute @isolate ??
16:31:01 [aphillip]
richard: we need to write an HTML5 extension
16:31:08 [aphillip]
... robin berjon will help us
16:31:21 [aphillip]
... if we can get two browsers to implement, then may be able to fold in
16:31:30 [aphillip]
... good chance of that if we get two implementations
16:31:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:31:51 [aphillip]
addison: anyone lined up?
16:31:53 [aphillip]
richard: no
16:32:01 [aphillip]
... first step is publish blog post
16:32:20 [aphillip]
richard: Korean
16:32:33 [aphillip]
... making some progress. no one from korean office at tpac?
16:32:40 [aphillip]
... did find chinese office person
16:32:53 [matial]
I have to leave now. I may be able to reconnect from my car, maybe not.
16:32:57 [aphillip]
... folks from india office
16:33:16 [aphillip]
... may get new recruit which could help
16:33:36 [aphillip]
richard: also spoke to tab about counter-styles
16:33:42 [aphillip]
16:33:49 [aphillip]
... close to publication
16:34:07 [Zakim]
16:34:28 [aphillip]
richard: norbert attended webapps and they talked about input/IME spec
16:34:31 [aphillip]
... don't have details
16:34:43 [aphillip]
richard: reconfirmed process for submitting bugs
16:34:54 [aphillip]
s/bugs/bugs to HTML/
16:35:00 [aphillip]
... html5.1 soon
16:35:34 [Zakim]
16:35:52 [aphillip]
richard: before/after decision put off?
16:36:07 [aphillip]
... koji seemed happy about that
16:36:14 [aphillip]
... they did discount head/foot
16:36:35 [aphillip]
... didn't like before-block or after-block or two word things would be a good idea
16:36:47 [aphillip]
richard: talked case sensitivity
16:37:06 [aphillip]
... and back to css with "Unicode case folding"
16:37:43 [aphillip]
richard: met with MLW-LT
16:37:54 [aphillip]
... under tight schedule
16:38:11 [aphillip]
... don't know how to address ruby or directionality due to other work going on
16:38:16 [aphillip]
... so blanking for now?
16:38:41 [aphillip]
felix: non-normative text for now
16:38:48 [aphillip]
... with a note to that effect
16:39:02 [aphillip]
... may be able to have another LC if more material arrives in a timely way
16:39:19 [aphillip]
richard: no one to implement?
16:39:25 [Zakim]
16:39:43 [aphillip]
... are implementation of ruby or dir simply a web page?
16:39:54 [aphillip]
zakim, [IPcaller] was matial
16:39:54 [Zakim]
I don't understand '[IPcaller] was matial', aphillip
16:40:06 [aphillip]
felix: just get spec to say right thing
16:40:34 [aphillip]
... for implementations... happy with what gets us through w3c process
16:40:51 [aphillip]
... and we have some examples that make use of the metadata somehow
16:40:56 [aphillip]
... just a web page would make me happy
16:41:31 [aphillip]
richard: met with xliff folks as well
16:41:35 [aphillip]
... who had similar questions
16:41:44 [aphillip]
... bidi is different from ruby
16:43:13 [fsasaki]
for the record, we have metadata items that are applied in applications, e.g. an HTML2XLIFF tool - we just need to make sure that we get through the w3c process if the dir / ruby tests are "just web pages" (would be fine by me, just mentioning this)
16:44:13 [fsasaki]
+1 to wednesday, great breakout session(s)
16:44:18 [Zakim]
+ +972.5.566.2aabb
16:47:00 [aphillip]
Topic: Encoding document
16:47:31 [aphillip]
richard: anne walked through it
16:47:39 [aphillip]
... norbert seemed okay
16:47:49 [aphillip]
... have a problem since anne might not be able to edit the document
16:47:58 [aphillip]
... can participate in the IG
16:48:48 [aphillip]
addison: will be the editor or at least our editor
16:53:36 [aphillip]
richard: also worked through outstanding html5 issues
16:53:42 [aphillip]
... ran out of time with html5
16:53:59 [aphillip]
... issues raised by cameron jones related to using locale info
16:54:03 [Zakim]
16:54:08 [aphillip]
... did talk about that a bit with html5
16:54:17 [aphillip]
... need to talk more to carmeron
16:54:39 [aphillip]
richard: slightly disagree wtih addison; think we should have a separate attribute for calendar
16:55:35 [aphillip]
richard: worked through writing-mode document a bit
16:55:46 [aphillip]
... koji to talk to elika about that
16:56:01 [aphillip]
Topic: AOB?
16:56:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:56:27 [DavidClarke]
Nothing from me
16:56:45 [aphillip]
s/document a bit/issues list a bit/
16:57:00 [aphillip]
s/a bit/all issues
16:57:09 [aphillip]
s/a bit/all issues/
16:57:17 [aphillip]
only one issue left for writing-mode
16:57:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:58:11 [DavidClarke]
will call be at 16:00 UTC next week?
16:58:48 [DavidClarke]
I believe so
17:00:21 [aphillip]
zakim, who is here?
17:00:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fsasaki (muted), Richard.a, Addison_Phillips, Dave (muted)
17:00:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see DavidClarke, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12apad, fsasaki, r12a, tpacbot, trackbot
17:00:40 [Zakim]
17:00:41 [Zakim]
17:00:43 [DavidClarke]
17:00:55 [aphillip]
Present: Addison, Richard, Mati, Felix, Dave
17:01:00 [aphillip]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:01:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:01:13 [aphillip]
zakim, who is here?
17:01:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Richard.a, Dave (muted)
17:01:14 [Zakim]
On IRC I see DavidClarke, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12apad, fsasaki, r12a, tpacbot, trackbot
17:02:56 [aphillip]
zakim, bye
17:02:56 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n
17:02:57 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were fsasaki, Richard.a, Addison_Phillips, matial, +44.141.888.aaaa, Dave, [IPcaller], +972.5.566.2aabb
17:03:07 [fsasaki]
fsasaki has left #i18n
17:03:09 [aphillip]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:03:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:03:13 [aphillip]
rrsagent, bye
17:03:13 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
17:03:13 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Richard to contact Aharon about creating tests for unicode-bidi: isolate [1]
17:03:13 [RRSAgent]
recorded in