15:58:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
15:58:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-i18n-irc
15:58:48 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
15:58:56 <aphillip> trackbot, prepare teleconference
15:58:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:59:00 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
15:59:01 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:01 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
15:59:01 <trackbot> Date: 07 November 2012
15:59:16 <aphillip> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2012Nov/0005.html
15:59:29 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
15:59:29 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
15:59:29 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillips
16:00:01 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
16:00:08 <Zakim> +??P10
16:00:19 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
16:00:19 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:00:20 <Zakim> +Richard.a
16:01:39 <Zakim> +Addison_Phillips
16:01:54 <Zakim> +??P18
16:02:17 <matial> zakim, ??p18 is me
16:02:17 <Zakim> +matial; got it
16:03:05 <aphillip> tpacbot, bye
16:03:43 <aphillip> Regrets: Norbert
16:03:58 <aphillip> zakim, tell tpacbot to go away
16:03:58 <Zakim> I don't understand 'tell tpacbot to go away', aphillip
16:04:20 <r12a> kill tpacbot
16:04:32 <r12a> tpacbot, die
16:05:12 <David> David has joined #i18n
16:06:00 <r12a> zakim, who's here?
16:06:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see fsasaki (muted), Richard.a, Addison_Phillips, matial (muted)
16:06:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see David, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, matial, r12apad, fsasaki, r12a, tpacbot, trackbot
16:06:08 <aphillip> Topic: Agenda and Minutes
16:06:19 <aphillip>  Topic: Action Items
16:06:57 <aphillip> Update qa-byte-order-mark document
16:07:10 <aphillip> Prepare some examples of ITS2NIF showing NFC issue for consideration next week
16:07:30 <Zakim> + +44.141.888.aaaa
16:07:46 <r12a> zakim, +44 is Dave
16:07:46 <Zakim> +Dave; got it
16:07:51 <r12a> zakim, mute Dave
16:07:51 <Zakim> Dave should now be muted
16:07:54 <DavidClarke> DavidClarke has joined #i18n
16:08:05 <aphillip> close ACTION-145
16:08:05 <trackbot> ACTION-145 Prepare some examples of ITS2NIF showing NFC issue for consideration next week closed
16:08:05 <r12a> David, I just muted you on IRC
16:08:13 <aphillip> close ACTION-147
16:08:13 <trackbot> ACTION-147 Send TPAC registration reminder closed
16:08:17 <r12a> because of echo
16:08:48 <aphillip> close ACTION-152
16:08:48 <trackbot> ACTION-152 Write summary of before/after issue for consideration by WG closed
16:08:50 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
16:08:55 <aphillip> close ACTION-153
16:08:55 <trackbot> ACTION-153 Reserve time on zakim for tpac calls closed
16:09:05 <aphillip> close ACTION-154
16:09:05 <trackbot> ACTION-154 Send invites to HTML editors to coordinate with richard over tpac meeting closed
16:09:13 <aphillip> close ACTION-155
16:09:13 <trackbot> ACTION-155 Update our time to 4 PM UTC closed
16:09:24 <aphillip> Write tests for unicode-bidi: isolate
16:10:14 <aphillip> matial: there is a group in israel for writing tests like this
16:10:29 <aphillip> ... maybe give to them?
16:10:35 <aphillip> ... talk to Aharon
16:10:41 <aphillip> richard: good idea
16:11:06 <r12a> ACTION: Richard to contact Aharon about creating tests for unicode-bidi: isolate
16:11:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-158 - Contact Aharon about creating tests for unicode-bidi: isolate [on Richard Ishida - due 2012-11-14].
16:11:12 <r12a> close ACTION-156
16:11:12 <trackbot> ACTION-156 Write tests for unicode-bidi: isolate closed
16:11:38 <aphillip>  	Tell CSS about WG consensus on case folding
16:11:48 <aphillip> richard: told relevant people but not writing yet
16:12:23 <aphillip> ... Tab asked a complex question I didn't know answer to
16:12:54 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
16:13:27 <aphillip>  Topic: TPAC fallout?
16:14:25 <aphillip> richard: first two days I sat in reception and accosted people
16:14:40 <aphillip> ... met a GOOG engineer mgr from JP
16:14:47 <aphillip> ... talked about ruby model in HTML5
16:15:01 <aphillip> ... he had requirements to implement double-sided ruby
16:15:29 <aphillip> addison: I'm also keen on double-sided ruby
16:15:42 <aphillip> richard: also spoke to opera about impl
16:15:49 <aphillip> ... also got some contacts to chase at apple
16:16:17 <aphillip> richard: html planning to go to CR in about a week
16:18:04 <aphillip> richard: had a session with html5 wg
16:18:13 <aphillip> ... half of session taken up by talking about ruby
16:18:25 <aphillip> ... and there was take up by html folk
16:18:47 <matial> Sound has become very sporadic
16:18:48 <aphillip> ... and fantasai + robin berjon have task to re-write ruby as an HTML5 extension
16:19:30 <aphillip> addison: she's interested in complex ruby?
16:19:48 <aphillip> richard: right. concerned that this may put existing stuff at risk?
16:19:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:20:15 <aphillip> ... they will try to fast track proposal so implementers can get to fast
16:20:47 <fsasaki> q+
16:20:53 <aphillip> ack fsasaki
16:21:16 <aphillip> felix: talked to kobayashi
16:21:26 <aphillip> ... attending upcoming epub workshop in NY
16:22:07 <aphillip> ... some people are aware of issues
16:22:16 <aphillip> ... would be good if folks attended workshop
16:23:18 <aphillip> ... February workship I think?
16:23:32 <aphillip> richard: presentation about bidi to HTML5
16:23:45 <aphillip> ... two new values of @dir
16:24:09 <aphillip> ... current description seemed asymmetric
16:24:19 <aphillip> ... and there were problems with using <bdi>
16:24:39 <aphillip> ... particularly microformats
16:24:44 <aphillip> ... so Aharon wrote a blog post draft
16:24:52 <aphillip> ... will publish soon
16:25:08 <aphillip> ... don't want to get rid of it
16:25:13 <aphillip> s/rid of it/rid of <bdi>/
16:25:40 <aphillip> ... but really we want a way to get isolation without putting <bdi> everywhere
16:26:11 <aphillip> ... Unicode adding LRI, RLI, FSI, and PDI
16:26:28 <aphillip> ... so implications to markup and css
16:27:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:28:18 <aphillip> richard: wean authors off rtl/ltr to use the isolates
16:28:48 <aphillip> ... names not settled
16:28:52 <aphillip> ... and rewrite articles
16:29:07 <aphillip> ... would reduce size a lot
16:29:35 <aphillip> ... html5 folks suggested new attribute @isolate ??
16:31:01 <aphillip> richard: we need to write an HTML5 extension
16:31:08 <aphillip> ... robin berjon will help us
16:31:21 <aphillip> ... if we can get two browsers to implement, then may be able to fold in
16:31:30 <aphillip> ... good chance of that if we get two implementations
16:31:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:31:51 <aphillip> addison: anyone lined up?
16:31:53 <aphillip> richard: no
16:32:01 <aphillip> ... first step is publish blog post
16:32:20 <aphillip> richard: Korean
16:32:33 <aphillip> ... making some progress. no one from korean office at tpac?
16:32:40 <aphillip> ... did find chinese office person
16:32:53 <matial> I have to leave now. I may be able to reconnect from my car, maybe not.
16:32:57 <aphillip> ... folks from india office
16:33:16 <aphillip> ... may get new recruit which could help
16:33:36 <aphillip> richard: also spoke to tab about counter-styles
16:33:42 <aphillip> s/tab/Tab/
16:33:49 <aphillip> ... close to publication
16:34:07 <Zakim> -matial
16:34:28 <aphillip> richard: norbert attended webapps and they talked about input/IME spec
16:34:31 <aphillip> ... don't have details
16:34:43 <aphillip> richard: reconfirmed process for submitting bugs
16:34:54 <aphillip> s/bugs/bugs to HTML/
16:35:00 <aphillip> ... html5.1 soon
16:35:34 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:35:52 <aphillip> richard: before/after decision put off?
16:36:07 <aphillip> ... koji seemed happy about that
16:36:14 <aphillip> ... they did discount head/foot
16:36:35 <aphillip> ... didn't like before-block or after-block or two word things would be a good idea
16:36:47 <aphillip> richard: talked case sensitivity
16:37:06 <aphillip> ... and back to css with "Unicode case folding"
16:37:43 <aphillip> richard: met with MLW-LT
16:37:54 <aphillip> ... under tight schedule
16:38:11 <aphillip> ... don't know how to address ruby or directionality due to other work going on
16:38:16 <aphillip> ... so blanking for now?
16:38:41 <aphillip> felix: non-normative text for now
16:38:48 <aphillip> ... with a note to that effect
16:39:02 <aphillip> ... may be able to have another LC if more material arrives in a timely way
16:39:19 <aphillip> richard: no one to implement?
16:39:25 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:39:43 <aphillip> ... are implementation of ruby or dir simply a web page?
16:39:54 <aphillip> zakim, [IPcaller] was matial
16:39:54 <Zakim> I don't understand '[IPcaller] was matial', aphillip
16:40:06 <aphillip> felix: just get spec to say right thing
16:40:34 <aphillip> ... for implementations... happy with what gets us through w3c process
16:40:51 <aphillip> ... and we have some examples that make use of the metadata somehow
16:40:56 <aphillip> ... just a web page would make me happy
16:41:31 <aphillip> richard: met with xliff folks as well
16:41:35 <aphillip> ... who had similar questions
16:41:44 <aphillip> ... bidi is different from ruby
16:43:13 <fsasaki> for the record, we have metadata items that are applied in applications, e.g. an HTML2XLIFF tool - we just need to make sure that we get through the w3c process if the dir / ruby tests are "just web pages" (would be fine by me, just mentioning  this)
16:44:13 <fsasaki> +1 to wednesday, great breakout session(s)
16:44:18 <Zakim> + +972.5.566.2aabb
16:47:00 <aphillip> Topic: Encoding document
16:47:31 <aphillip> richard: anne walked through it
16:47:39 <aphillip> ... norbert seemed okay
16:47:49 <aphillip> ... have a problem since anne might not be able to edit the document
16:47:58 <aphillip> ... can participate in the IG
16:48:48 <aphillip> addison: will be the editor or at least our editor
16:53:36 <aphillip> richard: also worked through outstanding html5 issues
16:53:42 <aphillip> ... ran out of time with html5
16:53:59 <aphillip> ... issues raised by cameron jones related to using locale info
16:54:03 <Zakim> -matial
16:54:08 <aphillip> ... did talk about that a bit with html5
16:54:17 <aphillip> ... need to talk more to carmeron
16:54:39 <aphillip> richard: slightly disagree wtih addison; think we should have a separate attribute for calendar
16:55:35 <aphillip> richard: worked through writing-mode document a bit
16:55:46 <aphillip> ... koji to talk to elika about that
16:56:01 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
16:56:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:56:27 <DavidClarke> Nothing from me
16:56:45 <aphillip> s/document a bit/issues list a bit/
16:57:00 <aphillip> s/a bit/all issues
16:57:09 <aphillip> s/a bit/all issues/
16:57:17 <aphillip> only one issue left for writing-mode
16:57:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:58:11 <DavidClarke> will call be at 16:00 UTC next week?
16:58:48 <DavidClarke> I believe so
17:00:21 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
17:00:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see fsasaki (muted), Richard.a, Addison_Phillips, Dave (muted)
17:00:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see DavidClarke, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12apad, fsasaki, r12a, tpacbot, trackbot
17:00:40 <Zakim> -Addison_Phillips
17:00:41 <Zakim> -fsasaki
17:00:43 <DavidClarke> bye
17:00:55 <aphillip> Present: Addison, Richard, Mati, Felix, Dave
17:01:00 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
17:01:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:01:13 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
17:01:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Richard.a, Dave (muted)
17:01:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see DavidClarke, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, r12apad, fsasaki, r12a, tpacbot, trackbot
17:02:56 <aphillip> zakim, bye
17:02:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
17:02:57 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were fsasaki, Richard.a, Addison_Phillips, matial, +44.141.888.aaaa, Dave, [IPcaller], +972.5.566.2aabb
17:03:07 <fsasaki> fsasaki has left #i18n
17:03:09 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
17:03:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:03:13 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
17:03:13 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-i18n-actions.rdf :
17:03:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Richard to contact Aharon about creating tests for unicode-bidi: isolate [1]
17:03:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-i18n-irc#T16-11-06