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14:14:38 <Arnaud> Arnaud has changed the topic to: LDP WG Informal meeting November 5, 2012: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.11.05
14:16:01 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #ldp
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14:59:12 <MacTed> trackbot, start meeting
14:59:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
14:59:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started
14:59:18 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
14:59:18 <trackbot> Date: 05 November 2012
14:59:23 <Zakim> -??P0
14:59:23 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
14:59:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see OpenLink_Software
14:59:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see dret, ghard, AndyS, MacTed, deiu, betehess, SteveS, JohnArwe, jmvanel, bblfish, Arnaud, webr3, tpacbot, trackbot, RRSAgent, Yves, sandro, ericP, LeeF
14:59:33 <jkopecky> jkopecky has joined #ldp
14:59:33 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
14:59:34 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
14:59:41 <Zakim> + +1.510.206.aaaa
14:59:42 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
14:59:42 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
14:59:57 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
15:00:05 <Zakim> +??P0
15:00:09 <Zakim> +Arnaud
15:00:21 <ghard> Zakim, ??P0 is me
15:00:22 <Zakim> +ghard; got it
15:00:23 <Zakim> +??P5
15:00:27 <dret> zakim, 206.aaaa is me
15:00:27 <Zakim> sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '206.aaaa'
15:00:31 <jkopecky> zakim, ??P5 is me
15:00:34 <Zakim> +jkopecky; got it
15:00:40 <dret> zakim, +1.510.206.aaaa is me
15:00:40 <Zakim> +dret; got it
15:00:46 <timbl> timbl has joined #ldp
15:00:56 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:01:09 <SteveS> zakim, [IBM] is me
15:01:09 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
15:01:17 <dret> zakim, who's there
15:01:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's there', dret
15:01:24 <dret> zakim, who's here?
15:01:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed (muted), dret, JohnArwe, ghard, Arnaud, jkopecky, SteveS
15:01:26 <AndyS> zakim, code?
15:01:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see timbl, jkopecky, Zakim, dret, ghard, AndyS, MacTed, deiu, betehess, SteveS, JohnArwe, jmvanel, bblfish, Arnaud, webr3, tpacbot, trackbot, RRSAgent, Yves, sandro,
15:01:27 <Zakim> ... ericP, LeeF
15:01:28 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), AndyS
15:01:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:52 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
15:01:52 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:01:54 <Zakim> +Yves
15:02:57 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:03:58 <JohnArwe> q+ to ask about what the limits are for members being added only "through" the container.  does that prohibit the container implementation adding members outside of POST requests?
15:04:40 <cygri> cygri has joined #ldp
15:04:59 <Yves> JohnArwe, you mean having duplicate members?
15:05:02 <mhausenblas> mhausenblas has joined #ldp
15:06:18 <Zakim> +MHausenblas
15:06:25 <cygri> zakim, i'm with mhausenblas
15:06:25 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:06:27 <JohnArwe> Yves, no.  I remember language somewhere saying that members could be added by the container without POST requests.  E.g. if someone creates a file in a filesystem, the container implementation could detect it and add it as a member "internally" (i.e. w/o POST)
15:08:11 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:08:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed (muted), dret, JohnArwe, ghard, Arnaud, jkopecky, SteveS, AndyS, Yves, Sandro, MHausenblas
15:08:13 <Zakim> MHausenblas has cygri
15:08:48 <AndyS> JohnArwe - I'd expect resources to be created then added to one or more containers in additional to in the container first.  c.f. file system links, mv
15:09:02 <Yves> JohnArwe, ok. Adding things outside of network interaction is not something the spec should talk about, it may happen, but not linked to our spec
15:09:50 <Yves> one question might be "is it OK to create a member using PUT"
15:11:12 <JohnArwe> q-
15:12:10 <JohnArwe> Yves, Ok thx.  If I see the language I referred to before in the future, I'll raise an issue to remove it.
15:12:37 <SteveS> JohnArwe, we resolved ISSUE-25 stating that it would follow composition semantics, POST to container would create and add.  We have a resolution to investigate supporting weak aggregation.  ISSUE-25 edits have NOT been made
15:13:25 <JohnArwe> SteveS that's fine, but fundamentally I am/was asking about the semantics of "composition semantics" as defined by this WG.  Is that question out of order?
15:14:18 <SteveS> JohnArwe, no, just giving a summary of where things stand
15:14:53 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/wiki/LDP_Implementations
15:15:32 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
15:15:52 <ericP> Zakim, [GVoice] is ericP
15:15:52 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
15:17:28 <Kalpa> Kalpa has joined #ldp
15:18:26 <AndyS> Yves - is that because the name is "under" a container?  (seems reasonable)
15:21:14 <Zakim> + +1.937.279.aabb
15:21:39 <Arnaud> q?
15:21:57 <Kalpa> zakim, aabb is me
15:21:57 <Zakim> +Kalpa; got it
15:25:49 <cygri> sandro, AndyS, we *did* talk about it, but didn't resolve it.
15:26:25 <Yves> a container is a member of its container, no? so if it's a member, it's resolved per previous resolution
15:26:56 <dret> if the server creates container, it maybe should attach associated behavior.
15:27:04 <ericP> q+ to talk about Bart's use case
15:27:12 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
15:27:27 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (87%), jkopecky (4%), AndyS (4%)
15:27:42 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:27:42 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:28:18 <dret> it's probably not quite clear what to do: accept the "container data" and become a manager of that piece of data, or accept the "container semantics" and become a manager of a new container.
15:28:34 <AndyS> q+ to ask about mv
15:28:48 <Arnaud> ack eric
15:28:48 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to talk about Bart's use case
15:30:03 <dret> sounds very useful, but only works if the server manages both containers, right?
15:34:51 <Arnaud> ack andy
15:34:51 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about mv
15:35:03 <Zakim> +bblfish
15:35:09 <dret> maybe that's a good issue to discuss? REST-wise, binding resource relationships to URI structures would be unfortunate.
15:35:10 <bblfish> hi
15:35:51 <bblfish> yes
15:36:26 <dret> q+
15:37:18 <Arnaud> ack dret
15:38:04 <betehess> +1 re: "binding resource relationships to URI structures would be unfortunate"
15:40:30 <dret> in AtomPub, clients suggest URIs, but servers pick them (upon creation), and they pretty much always (i've never seen another implementation) pick URIs under they authority. if we remove this constraint, interactions become rather different, because a link from the container to an contained item can move across authority boundaries.
15:40:36 <Arnaud> q?
15:40:57 <Zakim> +??P21
15:41:08 <deiu> Zakim, P21 is me
15:41:08 <Zakim> sorry, deiu, I do not recognize a party named 'P21'
15:41:14 <deiu> Zakim, ??P21 is me
15:41:14 <Zakim> +deiu; got it
15:41:18 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
15:41:28 <MacTed> Zakim, mute deiu
15:41:28 <Zakim> deiu should now be muted
15:41:30 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (19%)
15:41:30 <dret> i don't hear anything right now. planes?
15:41:56 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:41:56 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:43:01 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/wiki/LDP_Implementations
15:43:07 <mhausenblas> +1 to sandro
15:43:25 <JohnArwe> dret, authority is an organizational scope - is this not like URIs in general, where "if authority1 != authority2, client MUST assume they are different" but the server may have additional knowledge (like it's told via config that it "owns" URI assignment under both authorities)
15:43:36 <mhausenblas> reminds me to add http://paygoo.info/ and continue implementing it ;)
15:43:41 <sandro> :-)
15:43:55 <bblfish> yes was very helpful
15:43:58 <bblfish> great chairing
15:44:03 <dret> thanks, arnaud!
15:44:04 <bblfish> learnt a lot :-)
15:44:09 <ghard> Thanks!
15:44:10 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:44:11 <Zakim> -Yves
15:44:11 <Zakim> -MHausenblas
15:44:11 <ghard> Bye
15:44:12 <bblfish> thanks
15:44:12 <jkopecky> thanks indeed
15:44:12 <Zakim> -SteveS
15:44:13 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:44:14 <Zakim> -dret
15:44:18 <Zakim> -jkopecky
15:44:21 <jkopecky> jkopecky has left #ldp
15:44:22 <Zakim> -ghard
15:44:23 <Zakim> -Kalpa
15:44:27 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
15:44:52 <Kalpa> Kalpa has left #ldp
15:45:59 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:45:59 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:46:49 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:46:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed, AndyS, ericP, bblfish, deiu (muted)
15:47:23 <deiu> small comment: can't add new entries on the implementations wiki page (only editing existing entries works)
15:47:45 <Arnaud> oh, sandro?
15:48:46 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:49:03 <Arnaud> deiu, don't you have an edit button at the top of the page?
15:49:04 <AndyS> Opps - I didn't press a button ... one moment
15:49:14 <deiu> Arnaud, no
15:49:20 <AndyS> zakim, code?
15:49:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), AndyS
15:49:22 <Arnaud> are you logged in?
15:49:26 <deiu> yes
15:49:33 <Arnaud> weird
15:49:37 <deiu> I only have an edit button next to each entry
15:49:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:49:47 <Arnaud> I have page discussion edit history etc.
15:49:48 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:49:48 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:50:01 <Arnaud> when I click edit I can edit the whole page
15:50:02 <deiu> Right, got it
15:50:23 <deiu> I was expecting to see that button near the contents list
15:57:31 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:57:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed, ericP, bblfish, deiu (muted), AndyS
16:01:21 <bblfish> bye
16:01:26 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:01:28 <bblfish> bye AndyS
16:01:31 <AndyS> AndyS has left #ldp
16:10:02 <Zakim> -ericP
16:13:56 <MacTed> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-01
16:14:00 <MacTed> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-02
16:19:22 <MacTed> http://www.w3.org/wiki/EditingData
16:19:44 <bblfish> http://www.w3.org/wiki/LDP_Implementations
16:22:28 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
16:22:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed, bblfish, deiu (muted)
16:22:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see cygri, timbl, Zakim, ghard, MacTed, deiu, betehess, SteveS, JohnArwe, jmvanel, bblfish, Arnaud, webr3, tpacbot, trackbot, RRSAgent, Yves, sandro, ericP, LeeF
16:24:42 <bblfish> http://doodle.com/9g9zibrmcvs3t9xa?
16:25:04 <Zakim> -bblfish
16:25:07 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:25:17 <MacTed> trackbot, end meeting
16:25:17 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:25:17 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been MacTed, JohnArwe, Arnaud, ghard, jkopecky, dret, SteveS, AndyS, Yves, Sandro, MHausenblas, cygri, ericP, +1.937.279.aabb, Kalpa, bblfish,
16:25:21 <Zakim> ... deiu
16:25:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:25:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/05-ldp-minutes.html trackbot
16:25:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:25:26 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-ldp-actions.rdf :
16:25:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: sandro to create a new page open to anyone with a W3C account in the W3C wiki [1]
16:25:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-ldp-irc#T13-17-11
16:25:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: betehess to create a wiki page for the test suite and validator proposals [2]
16:25:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-ldp-irc#T13-53-17
16:25:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: cygri to create wiki page for Deployment Guide [3]
16:25:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-ldp-irc#T15-56-40