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07:32:28 <hiroki> rrsagent, make draft minutes
07:32:28 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make draft minutes', hiroki.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
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07:35:23 <Ryosuke> rrsagentd, draft minutes
07:35:55 <Ryosuke> rrsagent, draft minutes
07:35:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html Ryosuke
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07:36:57 <Ryosuke> creat
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07:37:42 <Ryosuke> rrsagent, draft minutes
07:37:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html Ryosuke
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07:43:34 <Ryosuke> chair:futomi
07:43:54 <Ryosuke> scribe: naomi
07:45:17 <naomi> AA: hoge
07:45:33 <Ryosuke> s/AA/ryosuke
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08:04:54 <naomi> futomi:  good morning, thank you for coming
08:05:16 <naomi> ... today's agenda - joint meeting with MMI WG
08:05:23 <naomi> ... thank you for coming MMI WG people
08:05:36 <kaz> kaz has joined #signage
08:05:37 <naomi> ... appreciate to have advices
08:05:48 <naomi> ... very happy to meet and welcome you
08:06:14 <Skim> Skim has joined #Signage
08:06:58 <naomi> ... after that we continue our discussion then have a meeting DAP WG
08:07:28 <naomi> ... 13:30 - 14:30 at their room
08:10:34 <naomi> karen:  thank you for coming
08:10:52 <naomi> ... appreciate participants especially from north America
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08:11:10 <naomi> [ everybody nods ]
08:11:59 <naomi> kaz:  Kaz Ashimura, activity lead of MMI
08:12:25 <naomi> daniel:  chair of voice brower WG and editor of couple of Web and TV
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08:12:46 <naomi> james:  worked and Web RTC and @@
08:13:24 <kaz> s/and @@/MMI and Voice Browser/
08:13:59 <naomi> [ introducing themselves - Chang, Debora, Herena, Sebastian ]
08:14:09 <naomi> futomi: introducing himself
08:14:34 <naomi> s/introducing himself/[ introducing himself ]/
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08:16:34 <naomi> deborah:  we have 3 presentations
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08:17:47 <sfeu> Present+ Sebastian_Feuerstack
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08:18:56 <naomi> james:  will explain about multimodal architecture overview
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08:19:42 <naomi> [ explaining slides ]
08:19:52 <naomi> james:  @@
08:20:52 <naomi> scribenick: Ryosuke
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08:21:19 <Ryosuke> james: html5 voicexml TTS  all independent
08:21:43 <Ryosuke> ... expaling about architecture of MMI
08:22:25 <Ryosuke> james: diggram of modality component
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08:22:48 <naomi> s/diggram/diagram/
08:23:04 <Ryosuke> ... suppose speech difinition system
08:23:38 <Ryosuke> ... components is blockbox to each other
08:24:13 <Ryosuke> ... interoperability testing
08:24:41 <Ryosuke> ... 3 vendors, speech , image, @@
08:25:03 <kaz> toru: could you give us any concrete examples?
08:25:15 <Ryosuke> james: in business model, it would depened @@
08:25:25 <kaz> jim: one company might be an expert of voice, but not so for graphics
08:25:46 <kaz> toru: dynamic discovery is included?
08:25:48 <Ryosuke> toru: techinical issue , discovery including architecture
08:25:58 <Ryosuke> james: yes
08:25:59 <kaz> jim: will be mentioned later
08:26:19 <Ryosuke> shinji: all codec is controlled ?
08:26:27 <kaz> sinji: multiple modalities of same kind?
08:26:30 <kaz> jim: possible
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08:26:38 <Ryosuke> james: anyone can control each component.
08:27:06 <kaz> debbie: e.g., multiple languages
08:27:06 <naomi> scribenick: kaz
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08:27:28 <kaz> jim: IM decides which modality should be used
08:27:41 <kaz> ... might choose different modalities, e.g., different languages
08:28:10 <kaz> toru: IM knows the capability of each MC?
08:28:30 <kaz> jim: MC is, e.g., sensors
08:28:33 <kaz> ... and MC is the brain
08:29:16 <kaz> toru: which part is the server?
08:29:22 <kaz> jim: either way is possible
08:29:44 <kaz> debbie: for example, Openstream's implementation includes all the components
08:29:50 <kaz> ... on cell phones
08:30:20 <kaz> jim: standard piece here is "how all the components talk with each other"
08:30:49 <kaz> ... all we define here is messages between the components (=MCs and IM)
08:31:19 <Shinji> q?
08:31:21 <kaz> [ that's why the name of the spec is "Multimodal Architecture and Interfaces" ]
08:31:44 <kaz> wook: transport?
08:32:03 <kaz> jim: we used HTTP for the first version of the interoperable testing proto
08:32:44 <kaz> (some more questions)
08:33:09 <kaz> jim: application logic is handled by the IM
08:33:12 <kaz> ... MVC model
08:34:02 <kaz> topic: MMI Discovery - helena
08:34:45 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
08:34:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
08:34:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html kaz
08:35:26 <kaz> helena: Discovery & Registration
08:36:16 <kaz> ... MMI Architecture is an architecture for components to orchestrate
08:36:34 <kaz> ... MC layer is abstract and generic
08:36:47 <kaz> ... respoonsible for tasks
08:37:09 <kaz> ... can have multiple devices that provide a task
08:37:24 <kaz> ... Modality Component life-cycle
08:37:40 <kaz> ... advertisement, discovery, registration, and control
08:37:55 <Shinji> q- sangwhan
08:38:19 <kaz> q?
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08:38:56 <kaz> ... 1. Advertisement
08:39:18 <kaz> ... reach correctness in the MC retrieval
08:39:37 <kaz> Meeting: Web-based Signage BG f2f Meeting at TPAC2012 - Day 2
08:39:48 <kaz> futomi: MC?
08:40:00 <kaz> helena: Modality Components of the MMI Architecture
08:40:19 <kaz> ... and what must be advertised?
08:40:52 <kaz> ... functional and non-functional information
08:41:03 <hiroki> Present+ Shigeo_Okamoto, Helena_Rodriguez, Kohei_Kawakami, Jaejeung_Kim, Soobin_Lee, Gisung_Kim, Shinichi_Nakao, Noriya_Sakamoto
08:41:10 <kaz> ... e.g., two concurrent synthesizers
08:41:33 <kaz> ... compared to DLNA
08:41:49 <kaz> s/compared to/ examples are/
08:42:08 <kaz> s/DLNA/DLNA, Bonjour, Intent and Web Services
08:42:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft mintues
08:42:18 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft mintues', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
08:42:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
08:42:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html kaz
08:42:37 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'you're too strict :)', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
08:42:49 <kaz> futomi: seems like UPnP
08:43:03 <kaz> helena: DLNA uses UPnP for discovery
08:43:14 <kaz> ... and what is needed for MMI?
08:43:33 <Shinji> Meeting: Joint meeting MMI WG and Web-based signage BG in TPAC2012
08:44:05 <kaz> helena: (explains the idea using a picture)
08:44:12 <hiroki> Present+ Hiroshi_Yoshida, Shin-Gak_Kang, Kaz_Ashimura, Sung_Hei_Kim, Deboran_Dahl, Toru_Kobayashi, Dan_Burnett
08:44:35 <kaz> helena: next Discovery
08:44:46 <kaz> ... for types of discovery criteria
08:44:58 <kaz> ... task goal, intention, behavior and capacities
08:45:07 <kaz> s/for/four/
08:45:20 <kaz> ... fixed, passive, active and mediated
08:45:42 <kaz> ... you use underlying technologies
08:46:12 <kaz> ... requirement is the need of a mechanism of discovery using the MMI events
08:46:21 <kaz> ... (shows another picture on discovery)
08:46:32 <hiroki> Present+ Wook_Hyun, Karen_Myers, Chong_Gu, Hiroki_Yamada, Masayoshi_Ishida, Ryoichi_Kawada, Toshiyuki_Okamoto, Shinji_Ishii, Sebastian_Feuerstuck, Naomi_Yoshizawa, Ryosuke_Aoki
08:46:50 <kaz> helena: and Registration
08:47:20 <kaz> ... implies information storing, indexing criteria, registration state and registaration distribution
08:48:19 <kaz> ... you can install MCs on some server
08:48:27 <kaz> ... and the information can be distributed
08:48:56 <kaz> ... requirement: system state handling, multimodal session and registry updates
08:49:09 <kaz> ... and then Control
08:49:39 <kaz> ... use the same MMI life-cycle events to control registration and registration updates
08:49:47 <kaz> debbie: one use case?
08:49:54 <kaz> ... public sinage could be one
08:50:05 <kaz> helena: we have a set of use cases
08:50:16 <kaz> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/mmi-discovery/ use cases note
08:50:31 <kaz> helena: UI on a mobile
08:50:42 <kaz> ... interacts with big screens
08:50:57 <kaz> ... that is one possibility
08:51:10 <kaz> ... connect with a public display
08:51:22 <kaz> ... communicate with MCs via IM
08:51:39 <kaz> futomi: my understanding is ...
08:51:49 <kaz> ... there is a big screen for digital signage
08:51:52 <kaz> ... and I have a mobile
08:52:01 <kaz> ... which communicate with the big screen
08:52:27 <kaz> ... maybe there is a list of devices close by on the mobile
08:52:39 <kaz> ... and I can choose which display to be connected
08:52:43 <kaz> helena: right
08:53:04 <kaz> ... currently  we need to stop in front of the display at stations
08:53:33 <kaz> ... using this mechanism devices can interact with each other via IM
08:53:42 <kaz> futomi: where is the controller (IM)?
08:53:46 <kaz> ... and where are the MCs?
08:53:59 <kaz> helena: MMI Architecture allows nested structure
08:54:12 <kaz> ... so the IM could be installed on the signage display
08:54:27 <kaz> ... or a separate server is another possibility
08:54:33 <kaz> ... it depends on the application
08:54:44 <kaz> futomi: MC is not free
08:54:54 <kaz> ... we're a signage operater
08:55:18 <kaz> ... it would be good if we could provide an IM to control the service
08:55:36 <kaz> jim: right
08:55:56 <kaz> helena: you can do that
08:56:09 <kaz> ... the question is rather what your own criteria is
08:57:00 <kaz> shinji: please share the information
08:57:09 <kaz> kaz: we'll let you know about the URIs
08:57:46 <naomi> kaz:  [ showing a demo ]
08:58:39 <naomi> ... possible system of MMI archtecture
09:00:23 <naomi> ... one interaction manager, DLNA, GUI, VUI MC (voice XLM), GUI MC (HTML5) and other services on the web e.g., EPEG
09:00:53 <naomi> ... two windows connected by a simple socket XML
09:01:04 <naomi> scribenick: Ryosuke
09:01:33 <Ryosuke> kaz: demo of TV control using voice interface
09:01:53 <Ryosuke> toru: @@
09:01:56 <Ryosuke> kaz: no
09:02:09 <naomi> s/@@/ is it included advertisement?/
09:02:25 <Ryosuke> kaz: there is no discovery on this demo
09:03:12 <Ryosuke> kaz: @@
09:04:21 <Shinji> q?
09:04:33 <naomi> scribenick: kaz
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09:05:18 <kaz> topic: Signage use cases
09:05:27 <kaz> futomi: Web-based Signage use cases
09:05:31 <kaz> ... we have 19 use cases
09:05:41 <kaz> ... we're now updating them
09:05:51 <kaz> ... some of them are related to MMI
09:06:26 <kaz> s/toru: @@/toru: does this demo use discovery?
09:06:59 <kaz> ... most of digital signages just show information in one direction
09:07:07 <kaz> ... but the future ones should be interactive
09:07:20 <kaz> ... so we listed possible use cases
09:07:30 <kaz> ... R5: Discovered by personal devices
09:07:43 <hiroki> ->http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/wiki/Web-based_Signage_Use_cases_and_Requirements Web-based Signage Use cases and Requirements
09:08:14 <kaz> futomi: (explains the UC)
09:09:09 <kaz> s/kaz: @@/kaz: both th components know each other's IP address and ports
09:09:43 <kaz> futomi: I can see the big display
09:09:47 <kaz> ... but I can touch it
09:09:55 <kaz> ... how can I interact with it?
09:10:28 <kaz> ... probably I could use my smartphone as the UI for the display
09:11:39 <kaz> i/topic: Signage use cases/toru: plan for systems which need discovery?/
09:12:25 <kaz> i/topic: Signage use cases/kaz: the MMI WG have been working on intereoperable testing, and the next version of the interoperable testing proto system should include discovery capability.  please help us :)
09:12:45 <kaz> jim: signage terminal as an IM uses users devices as MCs
09:12:54 <kaz> ... discovery work is very important here
09:13:03 <kaz> ... this idea fits MMI Architecture
09:13:17 <kaz> futomi: there are many other UCs
09:13:30 <kaz> ... maybe not related to MMI, though
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09:13:55 <kaz> helena: Web Intents is very much modality-oriented
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09:14:22 <kaz> ... UPnP is used for many devices
09:14:42 <Shinji> q+
09:14:56 <kaz> ... the coordination capability provided by the MMI Architecture should be useful
09:15:20 <kaz> @1: how can I select one from various signage devices?
09:15:28 <naomi> s/@1/gisung/
09:15:28 <kaz> s/@1/gisung
09:15:42 <kaz> helena: depends on application
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09:16:17 <kaz> futomi: MMI Architecture doesn't define that part
09:16:24 <sangwhan> rrsagent, draft minutes
09:16:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan
09:17:26 <kaz> jim: terminals agree with each other
09:18:03 <Shinji> q-
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09:18:28 <kaz> kaz: that's similar to wifi connection :)
09:19:04 <kaz> futomi: interested in the work of the MMI WG
09:19:20 <kaz> ... would like to include MMI's work in the gap analysis
09:19:41 <kaz> debbie: if you could, please give comments to the discovery work
09:19:57 <kaz> ... it would be very helpful if you could review the note
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09:21:43 <naomi> kaz:  [ explaining slides ]
09:21:56 <naomi> ... @2
09:24:14 <naomi> futomi:  emotion means markup language?
09:24:18 <naomi> kaz:  yes
09:25:42 <naomi> toru:  futomi might not mention not only @3
09:29:00 <naomi> futomi:  meta data
09:29:13 <naomi> [ everybody nods ]
09:29:25 <naomi> ddhal:  could have avator
09:29:29 <naomi> ... shows angry face
09:29:36 <naomi> ... detected from the speech
09:29:43 <naomi> ... two separated implementation
09:29:54 <naomi> futomi:  there should be many use cases
09:30:11 <naomi> ... markup language represents lets's say emotion
09:30:18 <naomi> ... this specify @3?
09:30:28 <naomi> kaz:  [ showing slides ]
09:30:55 <naomi> daniel:  agree what is the emotions
09:31:06 <naomi> ... need to research what are emotions
09:31:14 <naomi> futomi:  would be very hard to define
09:31:34 <naomi> ... emotion of each country is different
09:31:37 <naomi> ... how do you solve
09:31:46 <naomi> dadhal:  the group recognize that
09:31:55 <naomi> ... 5 -6 comments
09:32:04 <naomi> ... vocabularies
09:32:14 <naomi> ... you can define your own vocabularies
09:32:35 <naomi> kaz:  that's why we provided @4
09:32:45 <naomi> dadhal:  5-6 recommended
09:33:07 <naomi> ryoichi:  how do you use it?
09:33:18 <naomi> kaz:  sets of emotion markup language
09:33:51 <naomi> daniel:  any emotion could be readable of this vocabulary
09:34:17 <naomi> herena:  if you want to question or anxious, you can use annotation language
09:34:26 <naomi> ... performed - has a lot of use cases
09:34:43 <Ryosuke> s/herena/helena
09:34:44 <naomi> toru:  what is the most applicable use case of this
09:34:57 <naomi> kaz:  given these provided implementation report
09:35:02 <naomi> ... avator system, 3D
09:35:07 <naomi> ... face recognition
09:35:21 <naomi> dadahl:  product testing
09:35:42 <naomi> ... opinion people says good but might don't like the faces
09:35:54 <naomi> kaz:  one of NTT dept is working on emotion analysys
09:36:00 <naomi> ... for call centers
09:36:11 <naomi> dadhal:  that's a good use cases
09:36:22 <naomi> futomi:  break!
09:36:28 <naomi> ... appreciate your attendance
09:36:34 <naomi> [ everybody applause ]
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10:08:54 <hiroki> s/this specify @3/Can this specify level of emotion?
10:09:04 <hiroki> s/[ showing slides ]/Yes, use value attribute. e.g. value="0.85"
10:09:17 <hiroki> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:09:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html hiroki
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10:14:34 <Ryosuke> scribenick: ryosuke
10:15:03 <Ryosuke> futomi: yesterday r6, today it starts from r7
10:15:30 <Ryosuke> ... expalin summary of r7
10:15:52 <Ryosuke> ... explain use cases of r7.
10:16:22 <Ryosuke> futomi: R7 include the case of stock in real time communication
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10:17:11 <Ryosuke> ... real time communication using digital signage is a live stream such as live news, notice board.
10:17:32 <Ryosuke> ... forth use case is fire in disaster.
10:17:59 <Ryosuke> ... the use case assume shopping center where there are many displays in the center
10:18:31 <Ryosuke> ... digital signage inform us about fire area etc
10:18:50 <Ryosuke> futomi: next use case is earthquake
10:19:42 <Ryosuke> ... charles commented push API yesterday
10:20:16 <Ryosuke> ... technique related to R7 add push API
10:21:04 <hiroki> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/push-api/ Push API spec
10:21:33 <Ryosuke> futomi: explanation of websocket API which is low layer
10:21:59 <Ryosuke> yamada: @@
10:22:33 <Ryosuke> yamada: push API on SNS in the radio
10:22:35 <Shinji> [Editors Action] add. "Push API" to R7. Gap analysis.
10:22:48 <Ryosuke> Kang: BB
10:23:39 <Ryosuke> Kang: Sever sends information using push API
10:23:53 <Ryosuke> Kang: explanation of push API
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10:24:15 <Ryosuke> Kang: taliking about fire in disaster
10:25:05 <Ryosuke> Kang: CC
10:25:21 <Ryosuke> futomi: preinstall application on digital signage
10:25:35 <whyun> whyun has joined #signage
10:25:37 <naomi> s/preinstall/pre-install/
10:25:42 <whyun> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-push-api-20121018/
10:26:06 <Ryosuke> Kang: reciving information in real-time using interaction with digital signage
10:26:29 <Ryosuke> Shinji: how to switch normal case to disaster case on a digital signage?
10:27:02 <Ryosuke> futomi: assuming Automatically switching
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10:28:08 <Ryosuke> futomi: we can build up automatically system which switch to disaster mode.
10:28:32 <Ryosuke> Kang: DD
10:29:07 <Ryosuke> futomi: Let's talk about terminal side
10:29:23 <Ryosuke> ... how to sensor authentification ?
10:30:27 <Ryosuke> Shinji: talking about a example
10:30:33 <Ryosuke> ... signage system watch disaster situation using camera
10:31:04 <Ryosuke> futomi: Our scope is to discuss not multiple sugnage but single signage
10:31:30 <Ryosuke> s/is to discuss/is
10:32:57 <Ryosuke> Kang: R6 is audio mesuament
10:34:01 <naomi> s/mesuament/measurement/
10:34:57 <Ryosuke> futomi: FF
10:36:15 <Ryosuke> Kang: server can push emergency information to specific screen
10:37:31 <Ryosuke> topic: R8 identifying a location of a terminal
10:38:50 <Ryosuke> futomi: a use case is  ads based on a location
10:39:47 <Ryosuke> ... example of situation about this use case is train station
10:40:30 <Ryosuke> ... the problem that differnt station have a digital signage which show the same content
10:42:11 <Ryosuke> futomi: API relted with R7 are Geolaction API Specification, Geolocation API Specification Level2
10:42:23 <Ryosuke> s/Geolaction/Geolocation
10:42:51 <Ryosuke> okamoto: FF
10:42:58 <Ryosuke> futomi: twitter route
10:43:08 <Ryosuke> KK: map
10:43:22 <Ryosuke> futomi: discuss on map or mapping
10:43:36 <Ryosuke> futomi: next topic
10:43:48 <Ryosuke> topic: Synchronizing contents
10:44:36 <Ryosuke> futomi: a use case is waching course materials on a tablet,
10:44:47 <naomi> s/KK/Sung/
10:44:55 <Ryosuke> ... example educaton field
10:45:15 <naomi> s/educaton/education/
10:45:24 <Ryosuke> ... next example big conference
10:45:39 <Ryosuke> s/example big/example is big
10:46:03 <Ryosuke> futomi: Motivation of R9
10:46:44 <Ryosuke> ... requirement of network connectivty
10:47:39 <Ryosuke> ... API related to R9 is WebRTC
10:47:59 <Ryosuke> ... and WebRTC Tab Content Capture API
10:48:12 <Ryosuke> Kang: I don't know this API
10:48:39 <Ryosuke> TT: sharing video stream?
10:48:44 <Ryosuke> futomi: Both
10:49:03 <naomi> s/TT/
10:49:16 <naomi> Wook/
10:49:24 <naomi> s/TT/Wook/
10:49:25 <Ryosuke> futomi:  twitter video, text, image and so on
10:49:43 <Ryosuke> Wook: Data channel
10:50:08 <naomi> s|s/s/TT/||
10:50:28 <naomi> s/Wook/  /
10:50:32 <Ryosuke> futomi: video service,  multiscreen services
10:51:00 <Ryosuke> Wook: using web intent
10:51:24 <Ryosuke> futomi: does twitter use broadcasting?
10:51:53 <Ryosuke> Kang: FF
10:52:09 <Shinji> [Editors Action] add. DataChannel (WebRTC) to R9. Gap analysis.
10:52:30 <Shinji> q?
10:52:32 <Ryosuke> futomi: the opinion to DAP member
10:53:30 <Ryosuke> topic: R10 saving contents and playing saved contents
10:53:59 <Ryosuke> futomi: a use case is playing contents in network trouble
10:54:59 <Ryosuke> ... [explain wiki page of R10 on web-based digital signage BG]
10:55:15 <naomi> look for R10 from http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/wiki/Web-based_Signage_Use_cases_and_Requirements#R9._Synchronizing_contents
10:56:17 <Ryosuke> futomi: imporatant point is offline web application in R10 use case
10:57:05 <Ryosuke> topic: R11 Protecting video contents
10:57:41 <Shinji> [Editors Actions delete "HTML5 4.8.6 The video element ", "HTML5 4.8.8 The source element" and "Media Source Extensions"
10:58:30 <Shinji> s/Extensions"/Extensions" from R10  Gap analysis.]
10:58:44 <Ryosuke> futomi: Twitter served data using encrypted media extensions
10:59:09 <Ryosuke> topic: R12 Saving log data
10:59:38 <sangwhan> sangwhan has joined #signage
11:00:04 <Ryosuke> futomi: example of log data is who watach ad, when users watch ad, where users watch ad
11:00:06 <Shinji> [Editors Actions]: addd "file API" to R10 Gap analysis.
11:02:37 <Ryosuke> Shinji: log data is evidence of copy
11:02:54 <Ryosuke> ... server side cannot detect evidence of content copy
11:04:16 <Ryosuke> Shinji: sinage operator want evidence
11:05:23 <Ryosuke> Shinji: signitiure in the terminal
11:05:36 <Ryosuke> ... serverside cannot PP log data
11:05:38 <naomi> s/signitiure/signature/
11:06:21 <Ryosuke> Wook: CC
11:08:10 <skim13> s/CC/need to consider proof-of-play/
11:09:42 <Ryosuke> futomi: DAP joint meeting starts 13:30
11:11:06 <Shinji> [Editors Actions] add (temporally)  with evidence to R11
11:12:09 <hiroki> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:12:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html hiroki
11:12:19 <Alan> Alan has joined #signage
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12:47:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #signage
12:47:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-irc
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13:30:05 <sangwhan1> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:30:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan1
13:30:24 <sangwhan1> Present+ Sangwhan_Moon
13:30:33 <sangwhan1> Scribenick: naomi
13:31:42 <kotakagi> kotakagi has joined #signage
13:32:10 <sangwhan1> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:32:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan1
13:34:42 <Shinji> Shinji has joined #signage
13:37:57 <sangwhan1> s/Scribenick: naomi//
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13:38:13 <sangwhan1> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:38:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan1
13:38:34 <sangwhan1> ScribeNick: sangwhan1
13:38:40 <sangwhan1> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:38:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan1
13:39:02 <sangwhan1> [ Resuming meeting after break ]
13:39:08 <sangwhan1> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:39:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan1
13:39:09 <shinichi> shinichi has joined #signage
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13:40:39 <sangwhan1> Futomi: We should finish reviewing our draft
13:40:53 <sangwhan1> … further discussion should be done through the mailing list
13:40:54 <JonathanJ1> JonathanJ1 has joined #signage
13:41:06 <sangwhan1> … let's talk about renewing our draft document
13:41:13 <sangwhan1> … namely item 3
13:41:17 <sangwhan1> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:41:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan1
13:41:52 <kotakagi> kotakagi has joined #signage
13:42:30 <hiroki> -> http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/wiki/Web-based_Signage_Use_cases_and_Requirements#R14._Showing_contents_on_time Web-based Signage Use cases and Requirements, R14. Showing contents on time
13:43:45 <a1zu> Present+ Hiroyuki_Aizu
13:44:54 <sangwhan1> rrsagent, hello
13:45:00 <Kiyoshi__> Kiyoshi__ has joined #signage
13:45:05 <sangwhan1> Futomi: R14 defines showing contents on a given time
13:45:08 <sangwhan1> ... as for now, there is no common format for defining playlists
13:45:10 <sangwhan1> ... XML and JSON based formats are possibilities
13:45:13 <sangwhan1> ... but we need to analyze what is needed inside the metadata
13:45:15 <sangwhan1> ... defining format does not need to be done by a working group
13:46:10 <sangwhan1> … we can alternatively use javascript code to substitute this
13:46:56 <naomi> naomi has joined #signage
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13:47:05 <sangwhan> rrsagent, bye
13:47:20 <sangwhan> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:47:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan
13:47:44 <sangwhan> rrsagent, make log public
13:47:48 <sangwhan> rrsagent, make minutes
13:47:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan
13:48:07 <sangwhan> rrsagent, bye
13:48:07 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
13:48:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #signage
13:48:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-irc
13:48:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #signage
13:48:28 <sangwhan> rrsagent, this is signage
13:48:28 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'this is signage', sangwhan.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:48:49 <sangwhan> rrsagent, hello
13:49:04 <sangwhan> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:49:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan
13:49:04 <tomoyuki_> tomoyuki_ has joined #signage
13:51:02 <whyun> http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/
13:51:27 <Shinji> http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/
13:51:58 <matt> matt has joined #signage
13:52:06 <matt> rrsagent, draft seconds
13:52:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html matt
13:52:55 <sangwhan> ScribeNick: sangwhan
13:53:23 <sangwhan> [ Scribe missed a lot of minutes due to technical difficulties ]
13:53:38 <skim13> skim13 has joined #signage
13:55:24 <sangwhan> Noriya: how about WebVTT
13:55:38 <sangwhan> futomi:  WebVTT is for capturing on the web
13:56:01 <sangwhan> ... not quite similar with time text markup language
13:56:13 <sangwhan> futomi:  what is the difference of TTML and WebVTT
13:56:36 <sangwhan> futomi:  R14 should stay
13:56:44 <sangwhan> topic: R15 Identifying an individual
13:57:02 <sangwhan> futomi:  there is one use case - personalization
13:57:04 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:57:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html matt
13:59:49 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:59:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html matt
14:01:53 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:01:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html matt
14:02:38 <aizu> aizu has joined #signage
14:02:58 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:02:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html matt
14:03:26 <tomoyuki_> tomoyuki_ has joined #signage
14:04:09 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:04:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html matt
14:05:06 <aizu> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webdriver/raw-file/default/webdriver-spec.html#screenshots
14:05:29 <futomi> futomi has joined #signage
14:07:22 <Ralph> Ralph has joined #signage
14:08:15 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:08:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html matt
14:11:39 <sangwhan> futomi: Do we need to keep the requirements
14:11:44 <sangwhan> ... or should we remove the use case?
14:11:47 <sangwhan> wook:  This will have relations with web identity
14:11:50 <sangwhan> ... so this use case should be kept
14:11:52 <sangwhan> skim1: There are potential privacy issues which need to be considered
14:12:32 <sangwhan> ???: Regarding privacy there are a lot of issues, but if there is user consent
14:12:34 <sangwhan> ... I don't see why this would be a problem
14:12:37 <sangwhan> ... but a interactive model like this should be considered
14:12:39 <sangwhan> Futomi: OK, let's keep this and discuss later
14:12:42 <sangwhan> ... Moving on
14:12:44 <sangwhan> Topic: R16, Capturing screenshots
14:12:46 <sangwhan> Futomi: My personal favorite
14:12:48 <sangwhan> ... There is a need because the control centers can monitor the terminals easily
14:12:50 <sangwhan> ... If each terminal posts screenshots to the control center periodically
14:12:53 <sangwhan> ... it can be used to verify QoS
14:12:55 <sangwhan> ... Also, this mechanism can be used as evidence whether a advertisement
14:12:57 <sangwhan> ... has been showed on the terminal on a given time or not
14:12:59 <sangwhan> ... there are some existing API
14:13:01 <sangwhan> ... WebRTC tab content capture API seems to be relevant
14:13:04 <sangwhan> ... and it fulfills the requirements
14:13:06 <sangwhan> ... if it is possible to fetch the screenshot, XHR or WebSockets can be used
14:13:09 <sangwhan> ... to transmit the screenshot to the server
14:13:16 <sangwhan> aizu: The browser testing tools working group is working on screenshot API
14:13:20 <sangwhan> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:13:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan
14:13:37 <sangwhan> s/http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webdriver/raw-file/default/webdriver-spec.html#screenshots//
14:13:52 <sangwhan> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:13:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan
14:14:12 <sangwhan> ... The specification is here http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webdriver/raw-file/default/webdriver-spec.html#screenshots
14:14:17 <sangwhan> Futomi: What is the format?
14:14:20 <sangwhan> B: It is a pre-encoded image
14:14:27 <sangwhan> s/B/aizu/
14:14:57 <ryosuke> ryosuke has joined #signage
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14:16:30 <sangwhan> topic:  R17 - Seamless transition of contents
14:16:34 <sangwhan> futomi:  suggested by ETRI
14:17:00 <sangwhan> skim1:  Ther requirement is for signage terminals to be able to play contents
14:17:08 <sangwhan> s/aizu: It is a pre-encoded image/aizu: It is lossless PNG images encoded using Base64/
14:17:27 <matt> matt has left #signage
14:18:14 <sangwhan> ... in a normal web page, transition will introduce blinking
14:18:47 <sangwhan> ... which isn't quite natural to see when you want a smooth transition between content
14:19:08 <sangwhan> … it might be possible to do this with CSS transitions/animations
14:19:18 <sangwhan> Futomi: any comments?
14:19:38 <sangwhan> wook: Small comment, I heard from Chaals that XHR level 2 is now just XHR
14:19:42 <sangwhan> Futomi: I will fix that
14:19:57 <sangwhan> ACTION: Futomi to fix XHR reference on use case wiki page
14:21:55 <shige> shige has joined #signage
14:29:18 <sangwhan> Topic: R18 Interactivity with the call center
14:29:20 <sangwhan> skim13: Use case, when you are at a shopping mall
14:29:22 <sangwhan> ... when there is too much information
14:29:25 <sangwhan> ... this makes it possible to directly connect with a call center
14:29:34 <sangwhan> ... and interact with a human operator
14:29:36 <sangwhan> ... WebRTC can probably be used for this
14:29:38 <sangwhan> ... simple online assistance can be achieved with WebSockets
14:29:40 <sangwhan> ... metadata can be packaged in XML
14:29:42 <sangwhan> Futomi: This is a very valid use case
14:29:43 <sangwhan> ... do you think there are further spec references needed?
14:29:45 <sangwhan> ... like media capture streams?
14:29:47 <sangwhan> kotakagi: That might be overkill
14:29:49 <sangwhan> futomi:  We don't need to use IP for voice transmission
14:29:50 <sangwhan> ... a normal landline hook could work as well
14:29:52 <sangwhan> shinji:  Do we have to use Web RTC?
14:29:54 <sangwhan> ... what is the benefit from doing so?
14:29:58 <sangwhan> futomi: Benefit is that it is free
14:30:10 <sangwhan> Kang: I think this should be considered as a secondary feature
14:30:12 <sangwhan> Futomi: Any further comments?
14:30:15 <sangwhan> [ None ]
14:30:17 <sangwhan> Futomi: Moving on
14:30:19 <sangwhan> Topic: R19 Video streaming
14:30:21 <sangwhan> wook: This requirement is for providing live video streaming
14:30:35 <sangwhan> ... this is important because live information is better than anything static
14:30:38 <sangwhan> ... probably the most viable option is to use the video tag
14:30:39 <sangwhan> ... since there is no transport level limitation in the spec
14:30:41 <sangwhan> ... RTSP/HLS/MPEG-DASH can be used as transport
14:30:44 <sangwhan> Futomi: Very good point
14:30:46 <sangwhan> ... HLS is currently usable, MPEG-DASH can probably be used in the future
14:30:49 <sangwhan> [ 30 minute break, resuming at 16:00 CET ]
14:30:52 <sangwhan> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan
14:32:42 <ryosuke> ryosuke has joined #signage
14:33:54 <kotakagi> Present+ Koichi_Takagi
14:34:26 <sangwhan> s/rrsagentd, draft minutes//
14:34:37 <sangwhan> s/hoge//
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15:05:18 <ryosuke> subscribenick: ryosuke
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15:05:32 <Shinji> Next session: What's nex
15:05:37 <hiroki> scribenick: ryosuke
15:05:44 <Shinji> s/nex/next/
15:06:15 <Shinji> ...Making a new document
15:06:22 <ryosuke> futomi: use case and requirement finish today
15:06:52 <Shinji> … we need continue discussion
15:06:56 <hiroki> s/Next session: What's next/Topic: What's next step
15:07:11 <ryosuke> futomi: KDDI discuss map and mapping using SVG yesterday
15:07:39 <ryosuke> ... today we continue discussing this topic
15:08:03 <ryosuke> Shinji: we need mile stone
15:08:15 <ryosuke> toru: BG is temporaly group
15:08:21 <Shinji> s/discussion/discussion use-case and requirement/
15:08:31 <ryosuke> futomi: our BG is expired
15:10:02 <ryosuke> toru: should deside a goal of WG
15:10:32 <shige> shige has joined #signage
15:11:18 <Kiyoshi__> s/deside/decide/
15:11:36 <ryosuke> futomi: we propose concreately what should be next
15:11:58 <sangwhan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:11:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan
15:12:18 <Shinji> futomi: We need concuss
15:12:21 <sangwhan> s/temporaly/a temporary/
15:12:22 <ryosuke> okamoto: trying to identify a new document
15:12:48 <sangwhan> s/concreately/concretely/
15:13:10 <ryosuke> toru: I just want to know goal of making a new document
15:13:38 <ryosuke> futomi: what is goal of toru
15:14:37 <ryosuke> toru: today's goal is that our opiniton tell MMI or DAP WG
15:14:49 <sangwhan> s/opinition/position/
15:14:57 <naomi> scribenick: naomi
15:15:10 <naomi> shige:  let's clarify the definition of "goal"
15:15:22 <naomi> ... not necessary to talk to other WG
15:15:40 <naomi> ... you can identify solutions within this BG that will work
15:15:46 <ryosuke> s/okamoto/shige
15:16:00 <sangwhan> s/okamoto/shigeo/
15:16:36 <naomi> futomi:  the purpose of BG is not clarified
15:16:42 <naomi> ... we can do anything in anyway
15:16:44 <sangwhan> scribenick: sangwhan
15:16:55 <sangwhan> futomi: If we want to do something, it should be possible to do so
15:17:05 <sangwhan> … Do you all agree?
15:17:29 <sangwhan> Shinji: Since a BG cannot standardize anything, we should think about talking with WGs
15:17:41 <sangwhan> … to clear the usecases that are needed for our BG
15:17:50 <sangwhan> … this should probably be the main goal for our group
15:18:08 <sangwhan> … if you would like to propose another goal, we are open for that
15:18:38 <sangwhan> … but let's aim to make a deliverable by coming summer
15:18:50 <naomi> ack a1zu
15:19:00 <sangwhan> Shigeo: Is standardization the goal for us?
15:19:14 <sangwhan> … because my impression is that is not the case
15:19:20 <sangwhan> Aizu: I have two comments
15:19:51 <sangwhan> … Maybe BGs and CGs can write draft documents and submit it
15:19:56 <sangwhan> … and then we can submit it to a WG
15:20:05 <sangwhan> … for example Core Mobile and Responsive Images did so
15:20:28 <sangwhan> Futomi: So we'll change the main focus to "communicating with WGs"
15:20:41 <sangwhan> … the other activities we can do as well
15:21:19 <sangwhan> Aizu: We would like to have W3C members to understand what exactly web based signage is
15:21:31 <sangwhan> … and maybe create a prototype and demo during next TPAC
15:21:53 <sangwhan> Futomi: I agree, we should try to make a demo during next TPAC
15:22:52 <sangwhan> [ Notes that other activities mentioned are 1. Drafting a BP document 2. Continue to upgrade use cases 3. Discussion on map and mapping with SVG ]
15:23:16 <sangwhan> Futomi: Which timeframe should we aim for the milestones?
15:23:38 <noriya> noriya has joined #signage
15:23:57 <sangwhan> … my opinion is that we should aim for summer, but Shinji mentioned that might be too late
15:24:08 <sangwhan> Shigeo: Shouldn't the schedule be up to the members to decide?
15:24:32 <sangwhan> Futomi: Yes
15:24:53 <sangwhan> Wook: I agree with the point that we should have a deadline
15:25:06 <sangwhan> … but I don't think it's something that we need to decide during this meeting
15:25:16 <sangwhan> … we can probably discuss further on the mailing list
15:25:46 <naomi> sangwhan:  you can use  probably use W3C polling system
15:25:49 <sangwhan> ACTION: Futomi to setup a poll for the deadlines
15:25:58 <sangwhan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:25:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan
15:26:30 <naomi> sangwhan:  since this group is temporary and new
15:26:38 <naomi> ... all these minutes will be public one
15:26:49 <naomi> ... people start looking @1
15:27:55 <sangwhan> Sunghan: I have a comment regarding the activities of the BG
15:28:39 <sangwhan> … I would like to address the fact that the wiki page needs to be up-to-date with
15:28:49 <sangwhan> … the current status of the BG's activities
15:29:04 <sangwhan> s/sangwhan:  since this group is temporary and new/Sangwhan: Since this group will be temporary/
15:29:29 <sangwhan> s/... all these minutes will be public one/... I believe that there should be a deliverable document for future reference/
15:29:41 <sangwhan> Futomi: Good point
15:30:34 <sangwhan> Shinji: I would like to still address that we should aim for a milestone coming spring
15:30:45 <sangwhan> … we can still continue discussion after the milestone
15:31:23 <sangwhan> [ Shinji presenting a gantt chart of the business group's activity timeline ]
15:31:43 <sangwhan> Shinji: We had a AC meeting in May
15:32:13 <sangwhan> … to continue the BG activity we really need to define a milestone for the activity report
15:32:27 <sangwhan> … we need a schedule
15:32:56 <sangwhan> Shigeo: Since there are new people in this group, I would like to ask you if there was a consensus
15:33:07 <sangwhan> … from my understanding there is no charter
15:33:18 <sangwhan> … and I don't think the group agreed to such a schedule
15:35:04 <sangwhan> … although there was a year long plan agreed in the group
15:35:26 <sangwhan> Futomi: I think we should have a milestone, but the point is that the deadline should not be concrete
15:36:25 <sangwhan> … we can try to finish our document by April
15:36:44 <sangwhan> … so, for the use cases and requirements when should we aim for?
15:37:14 <sangwhan> Sunghan: I agree with your general idea, but we should probably take this discussion online like by using the wiki
15:37:51 <sangwhan> Naomi: This is why Sangwhan said we should use the W3C poll system
15:38:09 <sangwhan> Futomi: Ok, let's set this up after TPAC
15:39:03 <Alan> Alan has joined #signage
15:39:04 <sangwhan> … as for the current goals, does everyone agree?
15:39:55 <kotakagi> Please see http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/wiki/TPAC2012_KDDI_Input#Relation_to_System_Applications_WG
15:39:59 <sangwhan> [ KDDI presenting a proposal for upcoming activities ]
15:41:08 <sangwhan> Toshi: We are talking with the system applications working group, and discussing about collaborating with this group
15:41:24 <sangwhan> … presenting the SysApps WG charter
15:42:01 <sangwhan> [ For reference: http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/ ]
15:42:57 <sangwhan> … system applications covers a large amount of requirements needed for signage
15:43:05 <sangwhan> … but there are some things that are not being covered
15:43:41 <sangwhan> … we have thought about Raw Sockets API, although this idea is not concrete
15:43:53 <sangwhan> … we should also consider the security model when interacting with other devices
15:44:26 <sangwhan> … a trusted application model is a absolute must for a signage use case
15:44:44 <sangwhan> … this was discussed on the plenary session from the SysApps WG
15:45:10 <sangwhan> s/plenary session from/plenary day breakout session from/
15:46:51 <sangwhan> … so we should think about which use cases map to which WGs
15:46:56 <sangwhan> … opinions?
15:47:01 <sangwhan> Futomi: Good point
15:47:17 <tokamoto> tokamoto has joined #signage
15:47:47 <sangwhan> … I have been talking with the relevant working group chairs
15:52:39 <tokamoto> tokamoto has joined #signage
15:56:27 <sangwhan> Sangwhan: I believe this discussion is not something we should decide right now, and you have to be flexible for the milestone/deadlines due to the anture of W3C
15:56:38 <sangwhan> s/anture of/nature of/
15:57:41 <skim13> skim13 has left #signage
15:57:45 <sangwhan> Futomi: As a side question, does everyone agree to continue this BG next year?
15:58:08 <sangwhan> [ Consensus made ]
15:58:23 <sangwhan> Futomi: OK, then we should discuss further online
15:58:29 <sangwhan> … meeting adjourned
15:58:36 <sangwhan> [ End of meeting ]
15:58:41 <sangwhan> rrsagent, make log public
15:58:46 <sangwhan> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan
15:58:55 <sangwhan> rrsagent, publish minutes
15:58:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-minutes.html sangwhan
15:59:01 <sangwhan> zakim, bye
15:59:01 <Zakim> Zakim has left #signage
15:59:13 <sangwhan> rrsagent, bye
15:59:13 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-actions.rdf :
15:59:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Futomi to fix XHR reference on use case wiki page [1]
15:59:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-irc#T14-19-57
15:59:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Futomi to setup a poll for the deadlines [2]
15:59:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-signage-irc#T15-25-49