IRC log of i18n on 2012-11-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:38:18 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:38:18 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-irc
13:38:45 [aphillip]
Meeting: Internationalization WG TPAC
13:38:54 [aphillip]
rrsagent, set logs world
13:39:19 [aphillip]
Chair: Addison Phillips
13:39:21 [aphillip]
Scribe: Addison Phillips
13:39:28 [aphillip]
ScribeNick: aphillip
13:39:39 [aphillip]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:39:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
13:41:51 [aphillip]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012OctDec/0036.html
13:42:13 [aphillip]
Topic: HTML / I18N meeting notes review
13:42:26 [aphillip]
richard: don't think ruby should be marked at risk
13:42:44 [aphillip]
... some ideas that would be great to implement
13:42:49 [aphillip]
... but not in the time needed
13:43:02 [aphillip]
... and maybe not defined by then either
13:43:13 [aphillip]
... need ruby, double-sided ruby
13:43:19 [aphillip]
... so need to move forward
13:43:42 [aphillip]
norbert: hoping for some quick way to fix it
13:44:17 [aphillip]
richard: hoping what fantasai produces would be on top of current implementation
13:45:43 [aphillip]
... extension spec would be an alternative, but not removing anything
13:46:17 [aphillip]
... should say "disagree that we agree with 'at risk'"
13:46:42 [aphillip]
... if can't be produced in current time frame, expect that current design is used
13:46:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
13:47:28 [aphillip]
Present: Richard, Norbert, Koji, Fantasai, Addison
13:48:02 [aphillip]
richard: want double-sides in html5
13:48:26 [aphillip]
... without being at risk
13:51:29 [aphillip]
fantasai: think we can get a draft out by end of the year
13:51:39 [aphillip]
... with double-sided
13:51:49 [aphillip]
... compatible with what is already deployed
13:52:02 [aphillip]
... nesting might be at risk
13:52:11 [SimonSapin]
SimonSapin has joined #i18n
13:52:21 [aphillip]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:52:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
13:52:48 [aphillip]
richard: mobilizing folks to work on ruby
13:53:02 [aphillip]
... fantasai should be hooked up with them
13:53:10 [aphillip]
... outline soonest would be good
13:53:17 [aphillip]
fantasai: can make outline by end of month-ish
13:53:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
13:54:20 [aphillip]
... easier to explain in person than via email
13:55:05 [aphillip]
(discussion of cast of implementers)
13:55:59 [aphillip]
richard: key thing: don't want to end up with no complex ruby
13:56:16 [aphillip]
... must get over hurdles with html5 and html.next
13:59:24 [aphillip]
Norbert: local/floating time implementations
14:00:18 [aphillip]
... issue 97 needs more text (locale negotiation)
14:01:07 [aphillip]
addison: read bcp47 as rfc6067
14:01:11 [aphillip]
... ?
14:01:37 [aphillip]
richard: said "rest of WG doesn't agree me with, but think use calendar attr"
14:01:44 [aphillip]
... didn't go into details
14:01:50 [aphillip]
... will track cameron down
14:03:20 [aphillip]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:03:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:03:27 [Zakim]
-Addison_Phillips
14:03:48 [aphillip]
[[ WG heads off to meet with XLIFF folk ]]
14:07:19 [r12a]
r12a has joined #i18n
14:41:41 [r12a]
r12a has joined #i18n
14:42:44 [Norbert]
Norbert has joined #i18n
14:43:01 [r12a]
addison, you there?
14:45:05 [r12a]
hey addison !
14:45:24 [aphillip]
howdy
14:45:32 [aphillip]
ready for more?
14:45:34 [r12a]
yep
14:46:00 [Zakim]
+Addison_Phillips
14:46:24 [aphillip]
Topic: case sensitivity in CSS
14:47:01 [aphillip]
Norbert: (summarizes)
14:47:17 [aphillip]
... Tab prefers ASCII-sensitivity only
14:47:31 [aphillip]
... our preference seems to be Unicode case folding
14:47:45 [aphillip]
... has a few problems for Lt and Turkish
14:48:03 [aphillip]
richard: is there is a possibility that we don't do case-insensitive stuff at all
14:48:18 [aphillip]
... name counter styles need to be case-insensitive for existing items
14:48:35 [aphillip]
... so liimit to just those defined by CSS?
14:48:46 [aphillip]
... or extend to ASCII in general? Or to everything?
14:49:32 [Norbert]
CSS has already decided:
14:49:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:49:33 [Norbert]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Aug/0899.html
14:50:18 [aphillip]
... case insensitivity, with type to be defined
14:50:45 [aphillip]
richard: minimum is only existing items are case insensitive
14:51:16 [aphillip]
... Tab's preference was ASCII case insensitive
14:51:30 [aphillip]
... implication was make everything insensitive
14:52:27 [aphillip]
... if use case folding for full Unicode range, then turkic languages and lithuanian have problems
14:53:21 [aphillip]
addison: ASCII case insense sometimes a problem in Turkish too
14:54:40 [aphillip]
addison: users never see the case folded value?
14:55:07 [aphillip]
norbert: some way to access it
14:55:41 [aphillip]
koji: case folding slow?
14:56:31 [aphillip]
... incomplete by design
14:56:37 [aphillip]
... don't think it makes sense
15:01:16 [aphillip]
richard: HIT -> hit but not h\u0131t
15:02:42 [aphillip]
addison: that case never works with ASCII case-insensitive either
15:04:13 [aphillip]
koji: support ASCII case insensitivty only for backwards compatibility
15:04:31 [aphillip]
... not much use anyway, slightly better performance
15:10:41 [aphillip]
rÖman vs. RÖMAN
15:11:09 [aphillip]
Deutschland matches deutschland
15:11:20 [aphillip]
but Österreich doesn't match....
15:21:25 [fsasaki]
fsasaki has joined #i18n
15:21:28 [aphillip]
(involved discussion)
15:30:28 [aphillip]
consensus: full Unicode case folding without special cases
15:30:34 [aphillip]
... and add a note for Turkic languages
15:31:09 [aphillip]
ACTION: richard: tell CSS about WG consensus on case folding
15:31:09 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-157 - Tell CSS about WG consensus on case folding [on Richard Ishida - due 2012-11-09].
15:31:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:32:24 [aphillip]
Topic: bugs
15:33:35 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/open?sort=product
15:35:03 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/166
15:35:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:36:27 [aphillip]
significant change
15:36:41 [aphillip]
close ISSUE-166
15:36:42 [trackbot]
ISSUE-166 isolate and direction property location closed
15:36:53 [aphillip]
richard: needs a new review
15:38:16 [aphillip]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/10
15:39:53 [aphillip]
addison: why not have REAL text there
15:41:11 [aphillip]
actual WG is http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/
15:41:21 [aphillip]
issue linked to an antique
15:41:33 [aphillip]
s/antique/antique draft/
15:42:20 [aphillip]
close ISSUE-10
15:42:20 [trackbot]
ISSUE-10 Use of case in bidi examples closed
15:44:56 [aphillip]
first green box in section 2.1
15:44:58 [aphillip]
The ‘direction’ property has no effect on bidi reordering when specified on inline elements whose ‘unicode-bidi’ property's value is ‘normal’.
15:46:34 [aphillip]
<p dir=ltr">foo bar baz <span dir=rtl>FOO BAR BAE</span></p>
15:48:17 [aphillip]
<p> dir=ltr><span dir=rtl>this has an ltr base direction</span></p>
15:49:57 [aphillip]
addison: really needs some explanation, as the meaning isn't clear
15:50:28 [aphillip]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/12
15:51:53 [aphillip]
richard: options are leave as is or add text
15:52:08 [aphillip]
... normal (comma) <explain a bit>
15:52:49 [aphillip]
... "because the inline element doesn't open a new embedding level"
15:55:19 [aphillip]
marking 12 as fixed
15:56:13 [aphillip]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/13
15:56:59 [aphillip]
close ISSUE-13
15:56:59 [trackbot]
ISSUE-13 Incorrect U+XXX notation closed
15:57:43 [aphillip]
ISSUE-13 fixed
15:58:02 [aphillip]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/11
15:59:32 [aphillip]
ISSUE-11 is fixed
15:59:43 [aphillip]
close ISSUE-11
15:59:43 [trackbot]
ISSUE-11 Bidi algorithm boundaries closed
16:00:08 [aphillip]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:00:35 [aphillip]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/14
16:00:58 [aphillip]
ISSUE-14 being discussed
16:03:10 [aphillip]
there is text in place
16:03:32 [aphillip]
This value has no effect on elements that are not inline.
16:03:39 [aphillip]
close ISSUE-14
16:03:39 [trackbot]
ISSUE-14 Embed and block-level elements closed
16:03:55 [aphillip]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/16
16:06:25 [aphillip]
close ISSUE-16
16:06:26 [trackbot]
ISSUE-16 Describe value inherit closed
16:15:39 [aphillip]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:15:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:16:09 [r12a]
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/#direction
16:18:34 [Zakim]
-Addison_Phillips
16:18:36 [Zakim]
-St_Clair_5
16:18:37 [Zakim]
I18N_WG()6:00AM has ended
16:18:37 [Zakim]
Attendees were Addison_Phillips, St_Clair_5
16:18:46 [aphillip]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:18:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:26:42 [r12a]
r12a has joined #i18n
16:29:54 [r12a]
r12a has joined #i18n
16:38:57 [r12a]
r12a has joined #i18n
16:49:43 [Norbert]
Norbert has joined #i18n
17:16:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n
21:09:49 [koji]
koji has joined #i18n
21:54:04 [r12a]
r12a has joined #i18n