08:09:50 RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui 08:09:50 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-indie-ui-irc 08:10:09 meeting: Indie UI Task Force Face to Face 08:10:15 Zakim has joined #indie-ui 08:10:25 scribe: Rich 08:10:33 jkiss has joined #indie-ui 08:11:15 janina: I chair PF and the Indie-Ui task force chair 08:11:48 rich: I work for IBM. I am the ARIA chair and have worked on previous standards on Access For All 08:12:08 Katie Harieto Shea - I work on 508 and accessibility 08:12:57 James Craig: I work for Apple and I work on ARIA and I am interested in features needed for ARIA that run outside ARiA 1.0 scope 08:13:08 david Macdonald: I work on HTML 5 and WCAG 08:13:33 Lachland Hunt: I work for Opera. I work in the web apps working group 08:13:47 s/Lachland/Lachlan/ 08:14:21 andy heath: I am a consultant and work on the access for all piece and related standards around getting personalization going. I work on ISO standard 24751 targeted at accessible e-learning. 08:15:02 Salamon Moon: Opera software. I work in the web events and now the new pointer event working group 08:15:11 s/Salamon/Sangwhan/ 08:16:05 Hygoin Park: I am a Phd student and I have projects in e-learning and web. I wanted to sit in and am looking to contribute. I am here as a first time observer 08:16:12 David_MacD_Lenovo has joined #indie-ui 08:16:15 s/Hygoin/Hyojin/ 08:16:37 Judy has joined #indie-ui 08:16:38 Jason Kiss: AC rep for the New Zealand govmnt. I am a member of the HTML working group and I am trying to get a better sense of how things work. 08:17:17 Gottfried Zimmerman: Mediac University Stutgart and member of GPII 08:17:31 s/Mediac/Media 08:17:54 thanks 08:18:22 andy has joined #indie-ui 08:18:28 call in info: 1617 761 6200 passcode 64343 08:18:40 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:18:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-indie-ui-minutes.html sangwhan 08:19:33 zakim, who's here? 08:19:33 sorry, janina, I don't know what conference this is 08:19:34 On IRC I see andy, Judy, David_MacD_Lenovo, jkiss, Zakim, RRSAgent, gaiaphj, Gottfried, richardschwerdtfeger, Lachy, sangwhan, jcraig, janina, MichaelC, smaug, lisaseeman, 08:19:34 ... trackbot, hober 08:20:04 zakim, this will be #indieui 08:20:04 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina 08:20:15 zakim, this will be indi-ui 08:20:15 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina 08:20:26 zakim, this will be 64343 08:20:26 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina 08:20:30 zakim, this is indie-ui 08:20:30 sorry, sangwhan, I do not see a conference named 'indie-ui' in progress or scheduled at this time 08:23:26 46343 08:23:33 (indie) 08:24:28 We are now on the phone 08:25:37 janina: you can join web events or indie ui working group you can join the task force 08:25:59 janina: either one is sufficient 08:26:23 janina: We will discuss the eventing model first and then the use cases later in the day 08:26:56 janina: if we wait for telecom time we will take a very long time on use cases. 08:27:52 janina: Tomorrow we will talk about Cloud4All. The education space has looked at how vocabularies can be created so that user needs can be captured. For example, user's needs for large fonts can be captured by systems. 08:28:01 janina: this is one of our 2 deliverables 08:28:35 Ryladog has joined #Indie-UI 08:28:45 janina: This is the most appropriate user experience can be delivered in these situations. Then there is abstract events. This is a major opportunity for authoring. 08:29:11 janina: When we are tired of use cases and want to take a break we will look at Mercurial 08:29:39 Topic: Indie UI Overview 08:30:56 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012#Thursday_1_Novemberzakim, call St_Clair_4 08:31:03 zakim, call St_Clair_4 08:31:03 sorry, janina, I don't know what conference this is 08:31:05 zakim, call St_Clair_4 08:31:05 sorry, sangwhan, I don't know what conference this is 08:32:43 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:32:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-indie-ui-minutes.html sangwhan 08:32:53 jcraig: I work for Apple and I wrote one of the proposals that is used for this work. Some of the group contributions I was getting in from other members of the group did not make sense. Because there people in the group with varying levels of technical experience I wanted to give this presentation. I also want to just have a level set. 08:33:05 jcraig: to get us all on the same page 08:33:53 I am hanging up on zakim. Let me know if there is anything else I can try 08:34:13 Q+ 08:34:19 jcraig: I want to give back ground on aria and how keyboard use only in authoring practices is a stop gap measure due to the scope of ARIA 1.0 08:34:36 channel is not open 08:34:40 need to get it 08:34:57 jcraig: So let's go into background 08:35:14 jcraig: ARIa has declarative markup in the DOM 08:35:39 jcraig: overcome author, browser, and language limitations 08:36:09 jcraig: retrofit markup for accessibility without gutting it - sprinkle some sugar on it and it works 08:36:09 zakim, this will be WAI_Indie 08:36:09 ok, janina; I see WAI_Indie()3:00AM scheduled to start 96 minutes ago 08:36:26 zakim, call St_Clair_4 08:36:26 ok, janina; the call is being made 08:36:27 WAI_Indie()3:00AM has now started 08:36:28 +St_Clair_4 08:36:44 jcraig: very difficult something like a standard radio button is hard as many parts are native 08:36:52 zakim, who's on the phone? 08:36:52 On the phone I see St_Clair_4 08:37:16 rrsagent, make log public 08:37:20 rrsagent, make minutes 08:37:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-indie-ui-minutes.html janina 08:37:53 jcraig: Declare semantics where host language cannot 08:38:17 jcraig: Native control output 08:38:31 Chair: Janina 08:38:34 jcraig: output from web app to assistive technology 08:38:35 +[IPcaller] 08:38:36 laurent_flory has joined #indie-ui 08:39:00 jcraig: web app updates a value 08:39:20 zakim, [IPCaller is Lisa 08:39:20 +Lisa; got it 08:39:38 jcraig: browser notifies the screen reader 08:39:50 jcraig: native control input 08:40:12 jcraig: user attempts to change slider and the screen reader notifies the user 08:40:21 jcraig: ARIA Control output 08:40:31 jcraig: web app pdates a value 08:40:53 s/pdates/updates/ 08:40:54 jcraig: browser updates the screen reader and the screen reader tells the user 08:41:15 jcraig: browser doesn't know how to change the value of an ARIA slider 08:41:29 jcraig: web application is never notified 08:41:45 jcraig: this was out of scope for ARIA 1.0 08:42:27 jcraig: Standard Event Life Cycle 08:43:41 shepazu has joined #indie-ui 08:43:50 jcraig: the way voiceover works in MacOSX 10 you could use the standard slider but we also allow screen reader direct manipulation. There is an interact with slider and so on 08:44:05 jcraig: There is no standard way to do this yet 08:44:20 jcraig: Standard Event lifecycle 08:44:30 jcraig: example: submit button 08:45:12 jcraig: the click event starts at the leaf level node and cam bubble up the tree as long as an author does not choose to intercept and cancel the event. This is called bubbling. 08:45:28 jraig: in this case the img bubbles up to the submit button 08:45:39 jcraig: example ARIA button 08:46:24 jcraig: same thing happens. I bubbles up the the element with role-"button" and intercepts the event, does something with it and cancels the event. then that life cycle is over 08:46:54 jcraig: in non-interactive elements they keep passing on up the tree to the body and nothing has responded 08:48:20 jcraig: Let's talk about keyboard events 08:50:00 jcraig: it still starts at the leaf node but it works on where things are focused. So, even though there is an image in the div because its parent has focus the div that has keyboard focus does not propagate the event down to the image 08:50:50 jcraig: keyboard event aria button - same deal as long as the aria button has focus 08:51:40 jcraig: with event delegation the aria button has keyboard focus but it does nothing with it and it bubbles up 08:52:05 jcraig: the event target here would be the aria button even though it bubbles up 08:53:06 jcraig: when I talk about canceling I am talking about stopping propagation. 08:53:37 jcraig: in the case of a link the default action is to move the action to that link 08:54:13 jcraig: if you are on a native button the space bar intercepts that. The space bar can then be propagated up if not stopped by the handler 08:54:29 jcraig: Indie UI event life cycles 08:54:50 jcraig: span inside a span indise a slider inside a body tag 08:55:10 laurent_flory has left #indie-ui 08:55:19 jcraig: the context of this particular node the screen reader knows the user is on a slider. 08:55:29 jcraig: the screen reader can generate a value change request 08:56:18 jcraig: in a web application where nothing is know about this event the author did not opt in to do anything in this event. 08:56:47 jcraig: these are value change vs. value changed events as it is a request to make the change 08:57:21 jcraig: the idea is for backward compatibility we don't break anything that exists as the existing apps no nothing about these events 08:58:01 gottfried: What is the difference here when the AT generates the event? 08:58:50 jcraig: in the case of a native control where there are cases where the AT can request to adjust the range 08:59:20 jcraig: Today, the app would process arrow keys. 08:59:42 jcraig: the other way to do this would be to have direct manipulation of the value or basically setting the value of the slider 09:00:09 jcraig: you might have a pointer to the slider and you might have a decrement or increment value. 09:00:21 gottfired: why can't they just all the api 09:00:50 jcraig: for native controls yes but not aria controls where aria does not ovveride native functionality of the browser 09:01:27 gottrfried: we could override the value now property. The people in the DOM working group would say that breaks the web 09:01:48 rich: the author is not expecting that to happen 09:02:01 jcraig: it is believed that would break the web 09:02:14 jcraig: mutation events are being deprecated 09:02:42 jcraig: they are deprecated for performance reasons. 09:03:49 lachlan: there are on change events but authors are not expecting them 09:04:50 jcraig: the indie event behavior 09:05:25 q+ 09:05:31 jcraig: the point of regard is where we have keyboard focus but the screen reader can also have its own point of regard 09:06:30 lisa: it seems that we need to go up a level to abstraction - elements themselves 09:06:43 ack l 09:06:44 lisa: we could descend as well. 09:07:44 lisa: we could say that by inheriting an aria role the component could inherent functionality from the native control 09:08:08 smaug has joined #indie-ui 09:08:16 hober has left #indie-ui 09:08:17 lisa: I am wondering if at that level we could re-engineer it 09:08:20 -Lisa 09:08:32 jcraig: ARiA has never changed the behavior of the user agent 09:08:42 zakim, draft minutes 09:08:42 I don't understand 'draft minutes', sangwhan 09:08:48 +??P1 09:08:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 09:08:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-indie-ui-minutes.html sangwhan 09:09:16 jcraig: in that respect that would be a hugely substantive change to the 1.0 spec. and would create a full recycle. I am not sure that is what we want to do and it would not work in languages other than SVG. 09:09:30 jcraig: escaping from the dialog for example 09:09:55 lisa: for a while we were talking about a back end where all the elements slide together 09:10:19 jcraig: I am not sure what you are talking about 09:11:30 zakim, ??P1 is Lisa 09:11:30 +Lisa; got it 09:11:59 q+ 09:12:00 John Leaf: I am from Resarch in Motion 09:12:13 Josh O'Connor: NCBI 09:13:21 jcraig: to recap the last slide, at whatever point the assistive technology or the user agent determines the point of regard, if the user wanted to change the value of the aria slider we would initiate a value change request on this. 09:14:06 jcraig: if the web knew nothing about Indie Ui it would probably just let the event propagate on without being processed: backward compatibility 09:14:58 jcraig: For those that do they can intercept the event and process the value change and updates the aria-valuenow atribute 09:15:15 jcraig: the screen reader would then announce the new value of the slider 09:15:16 ] 09:15:47 jason Kiss: in the previous slide, for older browsers, the event never occured 09:16:22 jcraig: rendering engines try to be extremely efficient 09:16:57 jcraig: where nothing is listening for it the browser does not even allow it to go to the DOM 09:18:04 jcraig: the scene reader would know that the user is focused on this 09:18:12 s/scene/screen/ 09:18:56 jcraig: Dismiss dialog example 09:19:25 body which contains an aria dialog, with contains a paragraph which contains an input element 09:20:08 Joshue108 has joined #indie-ui 09:20:26 jcraig: the user presses an escape key which sends a dismiss request which bubbles up to the dialog. It intercepts the event at the dialog, cancels the event and executes a response to the dialog dismissal 09:22:04 jcraig: e.preventdefault() lets the UA/AT know the event was intercepted 09:22:46 jcraig: libraries like jquery has special library framework eqivalents 09:23:21 lachland: is it reasonable that at all times the dismiss request should be sent? 09:23:42 jcraig: yes, I think so. Escape always triggers the browser stop function 09:24:21 jcraig: we don't want these events to be blocking on the application level - we do want on the rendering level 09:24:31 lachland: how do we do that 09:25:10 s/lachland/lachlan/ 09:25:34 jcraig: we would handle this in the bubbling phase. Intercepting the space bar is one. Stopping the page for loading I am not sure about now. That may be handled by the application and not the rendering engine. 09:26:04 jcraig: if this were to fly on a blocking engine … vendors are moving toward separate processed tabs 09:26:33 jason kiss: how does the prevent default notify the AT that the event was completed 09:27:39 jcraig: example: intercept a valueChangeRequest event on a slider 09:28:22 jcraig: here we are talking about a e.requestValue for what is passed. 09:29:10 jcraig: we could have a value step for ARIA. 2.0 or 1.1 09:29:36 q+ 09:31:43 rich: we are going to have to create a tracker here for web apps review as the changes will effect the methods provided in events 09:31:59 lisa: my suggestion would be to make this as hugely abstract as possible 09:32:35 lisa: if this is something where ARIA is used with RDF where people create their own widgets we could create new mappings. 09:32:52 lisa: I would try to keep any property names abstract as possible 09:33:15 jcraig: I agree and that is why we have requestValue vs. a slider request value. 09:33:25 jcraig: this is not specific to ARIA 09:33:44 jcraig: accessibility is one of the primary considerations but it is not the only one 09:34:27 jcraig: I am almost done 09:34:35 janina: the bulk of our time will be on use cases 09:34:49 janina: we are walking through to get requirements 09:35:14 janina: this is great. we are talking about a break at 10:45 09:35:37 ack l 09:35:58 jcraig: Indie User Context. the reason that this is pushed out longer is that there is a lot more to discuss here and we have a greater grasp of the events model 09:36:37 jcraig: one of the requests that has come in is that we need a way for web apps. to respond to user needs 09:37:01 jcraig: there are other things that are used as preferences. We want to simplify the user and authoring experience 09:37:17 jcraig: we want to make getting at these users needs flexible. 09:37:29 jcraig: we need to be able to get a user preference 09:37:41 jcraig: we need to be notified when a user preference changes 09:37:55 jcraig: we discussed a preference to view captions yesterday 09:38:08 -Lisa 09:38:13 jcraig: The web application will always know that the suer needs captions 09:38:42 jcraig: the user agent could be made aware of increases in the ambient noise and ask that the web app turn on captions 09:39:07 jcraig: register a listener for a preference change event 09:40:10 jcraig: e. preference key for case font size change performa a uI action 09:40:52 jcraig: in certain cases we would want to prevent this but we don;t want to prevent progress 09:42:05 lachlan: in the past we have had to adopt prefixed things from webkit because of its extensive use 09:42:45 Issue: Vendor specific preferences keys 09:42:58 ISSUE: Vendor specific preferences keys 09:42:59 Created ISSUE-4 - Vendor specific preferences keys ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/issues/4/edit . 09:43:57 ISSUE: DOM event method specification will require coordination with web applications 09:43:57 Created ISSUE-5 - DOM event method specification will require coordination with web applications ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/issues/5/edit . 09:44:30 Rich: Lachland how would you like to address that 09:44:48 Lachland: Don't know now. would want to discuss this with other groups 09:45:15 Rich: ok 09:45:42 jcraig: apple has a preference on tab key navigation order 09:45:44 s/Lachland/Lachlan/ 09:46:01 lachland: have you thought about how this impacts browser finger printing 09:46:09 s/lachland/lachlan/ 09:46:29 jcraig: certain elements have relatively how costs or low need for security. We don't want to burden the user all the time. 09:46:46 jcraig: we need to implement some kind of security model 09:47:00 jcraig: no solution yet but has been discussed 09:47:38 jcraig: there are a variety of taxonomies. 09:47:59 jraig: we would want to allow access to these other taxonomies 09:48:09 s/jraig/jcraig/ 09:49:12 lachland: so is that prefix like a name space? 09:49:44 jcraig: this particular string is influenced by a namespace but we are not imposing XML namepsaces 09:50:12 s/achland/achlan/g 09:51:08 jcraig: we could have a new top level window object with new methods. This is larger than the scope of accessibility. So, I am not sure this should be part of the navigator object 09:51:35 jcraig: we could have a property that if the user does not care that I worry about a property ... 09:52:43 ISSUE: Potentially could have extensions to window level properties. Potentially need to coordinate with web application working group 09:52:43 Created ISSUE-6 - Potentially could have extensions to window level properties. Potentially need to coordinate with web application working group ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/issues/6/edit . 09:53:47 andy: there is a whole other bag of stuff in preferences as to how one gets them in. They are not only device preferences but there are also media preferences 09:54:26 jcraig: questions: privacy questions. What happens when a web app requires a protected key? 09:54:44 jcraig: should eternal properties bey prefixed, namespaced, etc.? 09:56:01 jcraig: How do we resolve value differences across platforms? e.g. fontSize, returns a different value on different systems. Should we standardize a unit or use a relative size? 09:56:07 RRSAgent, draft minutes 09:56:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/01-indie-ui-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger 09:56:16 RRSAgent, make log public 10:02:22 morrita1 has joined #indie-ui 10:15:19 shepazu has joined #indie-ui 10:16:19 jcraig has joined #indie-ui 10:16:33 morrita has joined #indie-ui 10:19:05 s/did not make sense/did not make sense in the context of how standard event lifecycles work./ 10:20:47 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui 10:21:05 jkiss has joined #indie-ui 10:21:16 jkiss has joined #indie-ui 10:21:32 s/jraig/jcraig/g 10:22:21 Joshue108 has joined #indie-ui 10:22:34 David_MacD_Lenovo has joined #indie-ui 10:22:40 s/when I talk about canceling I am talking about stopping propagation/when I talk about canceling I am talking about stopping propagation and preventing the default action/ 10:24:41 Judy has joined #indie-ui 10:26:05 MichaelC has joined #indie-ui 10:26:15 http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/31/us/mexico-border-jeep/index.html?hpt=hp_c3 10:27:14 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Main_Page 10:27:19 Gottfried has joined #indie-ui 10:27:54 s/John Leaf/John Li? Lee?/ 10:28:28 gaiaphj has joined #indie-ui 10:29:47 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements#S6:_Command_move_the_focus_point_within_a_UI_component_down_to_the_next_item_within_a_UI_component 10:31:16 zakim, who's on the phone? 10:31:16 On the phone I see St_Clair_4 10:33:27 TOPIC: Use cases 10:33:45 scribe:Ryladog 10:35:48 !.6, 1.7, 1.8, 1.9 up down etc will be our directional uses, then a separate set for logical next and previous 10:38:37 S6 through S9 are for the directional use? 10:41:17 JS: Suggest eight directional uses cases of South, Southwest, North, Northeast etc 10:41:57 nav-up, 10:41:58 nav-up-right, 10:41:59 nav-right, 10:42:01 nav-down-right, 10:42:02 nav-down, 10:42:03 nav-down-left, 10:42:04 nav-left, 10:43:03 GZ: CSS 3 basic UI model elements has a these above 10:43:49 GZ: It may be too much work to cater to so many 10:44:16 nav-up-left 10:44:43 JC: Maybe the CSS styles uses these, but that may be a problem for us 10:45:54 JC: Tabindex was all + integers, it overroad the default focus order of the DOM on interactive elements, Tabindex took focus out of the normal code order 10:46:40 JC: This may have a similar problem, using these elements above, as what happened with tabindex 10:47:52 GZ: It may be a problem 10:48:01 +[IPcaller] 10:48:44 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Main_Page 10:49:20 ACTION: jcraig to add directional navigations event with 8-way directional order property (e.g. n, ne, e, se, …) 10:49:20 Created ACTION-14 - Add directional navigations event with 8-way directional order property (e.g. n, ne, e, se, …) [on James Craig - due 2012-11-08]. 10:49:44 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements 10:50:52 Judy has left #indie-ui 10:51:13 RS: We are going to create events that are similar to SVG Tiny 1.2 for the names of the directional events for S6 through S9. And then two additonal,, next and previous 10:51:15 ACTION: jcraig to add logical previous/next event (not tied to directional focus event) (maybe focusNextRequest and focusPreviousRequest?) 10:51:18 Created ACTION-15 - Add logical previous/next event (not tied to directional focus event) (maybe focusNextRequest and focusPreviousRequest?) [on James Craig - due 2012-11-08]. 10:52:42 SWAO 10:52:46 SWAP 10:53:04 LS: Suggest SWAP we thought was useful. The main use cases were for learning disabilities 10:53:45 Semantic Web Accessibility Platform 10:54:02 http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/ 10:54:56 LS: Easily navigable semantic information 10:55:33 http://www.w3.org/2004/06/DI-MCA-WS/submissions/position-uba.html 10:55:46 LS: Someone could build and RDF by a proxy server if not on top of the app 11:00:32 JC and AH: This may be most useful in the User Needs/Preferences module 11:01:21 q+ to mention this could be covered by taxonomy-prefixed preference keys 11:01:23 RS: ould you look at the Use cases we have and see if that would work with the use cases we have 11:01:59 JS: Richs request is a good one, if you can look over the use cases 11:02:15 s/RS: ould/RS: Could/ 11:02:39 ack me 11:02:39 jcraig, you wanted to mention this could be covered by taxonomy-prefixed preference keys 11:02:55 RS: For example, a user case to simplify the content - that would help us because we do not have any like that 11:05:25 JC: Part of the User Context module might have a way to inject (maybe via proxy) what an application request value, font szie, captions, color, etc. Taxonomy defines this preference for short term memory 11:06:39 KHS: Could we include Simpler Language as a User Need? 11:07:25 JC: It may not fit, may be best addressed through a Taxonomy 11:07:42 LS: Short term memory loss is a very large challenge 11:09:45 LS: TV channel change, I put a sticker next to the on/off, simpler method, less choices 11:09:58 s/szie/size/ 11:10:15 JS: Yes, this is a big issue, 11:11:51 RS: I think we need an event to this. We are seeing this in the education space 11:12:12 LS: You can map it to a use case 11:12:21 LS: Like your online mail 11:12:40 q+ 11:13:55 ack l 11:15:23 q+ to say a "simplify" event is still too general; simplify interface? simplify language? this may be valid, but IMO as a preference, not as an event. 11:15:39 Lacklan: From a developers perspective, there does seem to be a problem with having to code for each disability 11:15:47 s/Lacklan/Lachlan/ 11:16:32 AH: I would be happy to speak with you off-line later 11:17:09 +1 11:17:10 q? 11:17:28 to clarify my point, solutions to the problems and use cases need to really look at the issue from web developer perspectives and making things easier and with more incentive to use 11:17:51 ack me 11:17:51 jcraig, you wanted to say a "simplify" event is still too general; simplify interface? simplify language? this may be valid, but IMO as a preference, not as an event. 11:17:51 q? 11:18:00 RS: For the general web - maybe not too much, but in the education space developers do want this. I would like you to put together a user case for this 11:18:01 q+ 11:18:01 q? 11:18:03 q+ 11:18:20 q+ 11:18:28 +q 11:18:47 q? 11:19:30 q? 11:19:34 ack r 11:19:40 +q 11:19:50 JC: My thoughts on having a 'simplify' event. If you feel this is a valid need to have an event. You should provide the properties for this simply event, to help define and clarify. This is an action for you to provide a concrete proposal. 11:21:00 RS: I really want Lisa to give us some use cases. There is a project at the Department of Education right now, that is working on this. 11:21:14 q? 11:21:44 ack s 11:21:45 ack sa 11:21:50 ack sangwhan 11:22:00 LH: Without specific guidance it is hard for web developers to do 11:22:31 q+ to respond to sangwhan's comment that spec is currently accessibility-focused 11:22:52 This is not going to sell to developers if this is mostly an Accessibility Spec 11:23:25 +1 11:23:29 ack s 11:23:33 ack a 11:24:11 Joshue: I would like to see this spec be more general, which would be better adopted 11:24:43 /me would appreciate it if accessibility related acronyms are spelled out at least once for the noobs (like me) 11:25:21 s/ \/me would appreciate it if accessibility related acronyms are spelled out at least once for the noobs (like me)// 11:25:25 AH: I wish we had put it in AFA, and would like it to be in AFA 3. GPII want it. If it a preference, I do not think it is an event........ 11:25:33 q+ 11:25:38 AFA = access for all 11:25:43 q+ to say that we need to address preference properties in a registry-based approach 11:25:45 q+ 11:25:48 PNP = personal needs and prefs? 11:26:03 GPII? dunno. 11:26:25 ack j 11:26:25 jcraig, you wanted to respond to sangwhan's comment that spec is currently accessibility-focused 11:26:35 q? 11:26:42 ack jo 11:26:47 rm li 11:26:51 q li 11:27:04 q? 11:27:47 Global Public Inclusive Infrastructure (GPII) 11:27:58 q+ 11:28:24 ack lisa 11:29:07 JC: I am guilty that this is Accessibility focused. This spec grew from trying to fill the wholes that prevent access 11:29:43 q? 11:30:15 JC: There are types of things that can not be done today, but we do want to make it more main stream 11:30:54 q- 11:30:59 ack Ryalodog 11:31:01 ack r 11:31:06 q+ 11:31:07 ack ry 11:31:09 +1 to James 11:31:10 q+ 11:31:21 ack go 11:31:21 Gottfried, you wanted to say that we need to address preference properties in a registry-based approach 11:31:31 q? 11:31:37 JC: I do not want to address ALL of the needs in a 1.0 version that covers much Access issues 11:33:14 q+ to briefly mention avoiding deep dives in either direction for 1.0: either accessibility or mainstream prefs 11:33:15 ack an 11:33:15