31 Oct 2012

See also: IRC log




<scribe> scribenick: Lea_

shepazu: does any one need more information about webplatform?

r12a: one question, should we call it webdocs?

shepazu: we also call it WPD

Lea_: the problem with WPD is that it's only about one section of the site

shepazu: it's NP complete, Naming Protocol complete :P

r12a: I heard that WPD is only a part of the initiative - what is the rest? […]

shepazu: there are going to be other aspects as it grows, but the main part is WPD
... so that's something interesting we could talk about briefly
... one of the goals of the projects is good SEO
... we're going to be buying adwords
... we would like to be the #1 hit when someone searches for a CSS property or an SVG element or whatever
... that's gonna take a little while
... if you look for css font-size right now, it's not gonna be WPD
... but maybe in a year, we might achieve this goal

dsinger: is WebPlatform all this project does?

shepazu: no, there are other parts as well, e.g. tools, Q&A

???: it seems one of the biggest questions is about translations

shepazu: Microsoft paid HelloWelt to do many things on the site and one of the things we want to do is infrastructure for translations
... We extended MediaWiki with many plugins
... one of the things MW is bad at is translations
... we have a map of how this will work, we have some very rough prototypes, we're gonna be contracting with those guys
... shouldn't take more than a couple of weeks for a working first version

r12a: we have many articles on W3C with translations
... we need to have a process and assess the translation quality
... we need this to be authoritative
... we not only need to check the translations but also check the text in many different languages

shepazu: so, yes, we've talked about this before
... we realize it's an issue
... we want to have translation teams
... one or two leads in each languages
... they will find people to do translations and reviews
... maybe a combination of paid + volunteer resources
... yeah, we need to build a social infrastructure as well as the technical one

dsinger: we could look for language leads in our stewards

shepazu: someone said he's on a grant to work on MediaWiki's translation infrastructure
... he's in Germany, I think he's Polish
... he contacted me, said he's very interested
... I think that's a key area of interest right now
... I wanted to have it on launch, but we didn't get there
... there are other opportunities as well around this
... we were contacted by the Wikipedia people, they are very excited that we are using their platform
... we are downstreaming all stuff that we're innovating about WPD to their software

mchampion is anyone contracting with HelloWelt about this?

[discussion about /wiki in the URL]

shepazu: I hate it too, but there were two technical reasons for this
... we wanted people to know it's a wiki, to avoid running into the same issues as MDN did, where people don't realize it's a wiki
... they constantly get people telling them to edit their articles, because they don't understand it's a wiki
... that's the social reason
... sample URL for translations would be docs.webplatform.org/wiki/css/properties/font-size/de where de would be the language code
... we don't want to have parallel trees

dsinger: what is the structure of this wiki and how can I refer to it?

shepazu: what I want to do around translations is to publish a blog post with our thoughts
... we have a lot to learn from you Richard
... we don't have all the answers, we don't even have all the questions
... I've read a lot about how to build successful online communities, some of them discuss translations
... obviously we want to tap into the existing translation infrastructure
... [introduces me and Chris]

[shepazu introduces hiroki ]

shepazu: I just want to make sure you guys are aware that you can contact any of us if you have questions

<r12a> public-webplatform.w3.org

shepazu: if you're interested in participating, there's a mailing list public-webplatform@w3.org
... we have about 30 minutes

SteveH_: I have a question, around content contributions, I understand it's a CC license and you have to give attribution
... people can take content from WPD as long as they give attribution, but in terms of giving content, is there any attribution back to who gave the content?

shepazu: we don't have all the infrastructure in place, but we have something to guide people to give attribution
... if you're gonna be using a book, we ask that you credit all the authors
... we're going to expose that attribution through the API
... depends on the medium too, for slides and things like that, saying webplatform.org is sufficient
... we also have notes for imported content

SteveH_: is there a link back to the original sources?

shepazu: I'm really sensitive to that, I think it's a good idea to have many cross-links
... we don't want to annoy people with huge attribution links
... but something in the sidebar should be ok
... it's also an SEO strategy

r12a: I want to know who wrote something, to know how authoritative it is

Astok Malhotra: I have a question. We just published two documents as RECs. We like to get them on the WPD. What do we do?

shepazu: what is it about?

Astok: RDF

shepazu: come talk to us and we'll figure out where it fits
... I want to have things like RDFa

Antoine: Do you intend to expose the data as open data?

<SteveH_> hmmm, where is Zakim?

shepazu: that just blew my mind! It is based on Semantic MediaWiki which has categories and properties and relations so you should be able to get that metadata out, we don't have the API yet

Antoine: That's not the same

shepazu: give me an example
... patches welcome!
... if you look at the page and you see what metadata should be exposed, come and tell us
... it could even help SEO!
... we absolutely intend on having a rich API
... each section of the page has its own field, so our data is structured internally
... but we want to be pragmatic, we don't want to put metadata there for no reason
... we can see pragmatically what works out

SteveH_: Who's gonna be moderating the wiki?

shepazu: all the stewards have admins working on WPD
... we do want people to help us police the site
... and help us add content
... every steward get to have an admin, but we already have admins from the community doing amazing work

SteveH_: who gets to have a say in the end?

shepazu: ultimately it's W3C if it comes down to that
... if we can't reach consensus

SteveH_: so the admins debate with each other, work with the content provider and then if it comes down to that and they can't reach consensus, they ask W3C?

shepazu: we're gonna be involved in the site itself and listen to everybody and do what we feel is the right thing

Mike: Wasn't someone banned on day 1?

cmills: That was me [laughs]
... That person made some awful changes, screw them [everyone laughs]

SteveH_: I imagine admins distribute the work and each one takes care of specific areas

shepazu: yes, but not for more serious things like banning
... for things that have long lasting implications, we ask them to ask on IRC first

cmills: Specific moderators should have specific areas of responsibility

shepazu: the response has been excellent
... Chris is especially overwhelmed, the first weeks were very hard
... people were coming and did silly things just to play with the site
... these days we are getting people that are more serious
... I also want to tie it back to something else, this is not about documenting the specs, the site needs to reflect the real world
... we don't expect many kinds of conflicts, wikipedia is much larger than what we're doing

Ian: do you have any protection against link spam through attribution?

shepazu: difficult question, what was the first one

Ian: Editorial style guide?

shepazu: we're using the Yahoo style guide and using American English, because it's the best [laughs]
... to correct myself, for the default pages we're using American English, obviously not for the …Chinese pages
... you only get attributed once, and it's a nofollow link so you're not getting google juice for that, so the incentives are low
... if we see abuses we'll deal with it then
... we don't know yet how the community is going to react and we're not going to make rules before we see the problems
... btw, I have stickers
... any other questions?

Erika: Will the course materials for W3Dev Campus be tied to WebPlatform?

shepazu: I think that the scope of education stuff is larger than that, we need to have a larger educational strategy
... maybe ultimately we'll intergrate this stuff
... for right now, they're their own thing

???: it's missing more than one HTML attributes, how should I edit a page?

shepazu: it gives you a form
... maybe we didn't get the workflow quite right
... we have realistically 5-10 minutes left
... we don't tend to point people to the specs
... there are reasons to go there, but that's not where most devs want to get their information
... we hope this will be useful to WGs too

[discussion about the pronunciation of "primer"]

shepazu: we need a sysop


shepazu: we need money for extending features of the site, and to last without ads
... and to get more stickers!
... going to conferences and speak about it
... we don't want to financially reward our contributors
... but we could e.g. help fly good contributors to a docathon
... I don't want to turn it to a sales pitch, but I think you're all here because you see the value in it

dsinger: will it ever get out of alpha? What are the criteria?

shepazu: there are specific criteria. We want to have more complete content

dsinger: getting to 95%, I totally agree. Getting to 100% on the other hand...

shepazu: if we reach the point where a random page likely has everything filled out, we'll go out of alpha
... we want to get the reference material pretty much done to exit alpha
... we're going to tie compatibility tables with W3C testuites and other sources such as quirksmode

r12a: I recently implemented an API for our testsuites

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/

Ian: Do you have any plans for funding PPK to expand his compat tables?

shepazu: he has support from Microsoft and Google for this, which requires that we could use his data, and he happily agreed
... we could help fund things like that if we have enough money
... there's a number of ways to do that
... that fits great with W3C's process, because we need tests
... and we're going to expose an API for people to get this info

RRSAgent draft minutes

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.137 (CVS log)
$Date: 2012/10/31 14:27:29 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137  of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/when I heard WPD/I heard that WPD is only a part of the initiative - what is the rest?/
Succeeded: s/are about translations/is about translations/
Succeeded: s/???:/mchampion/
Succeeded: s/[discussing/[discussion/
Found ScribeNick: Lea_
Inferring Scribes: Lea_

WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found.

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Antoine Astok Erika Ian Lea_ Leehom Mike SteveH_ ares bjkim cmills dbaron dom dsinger evanlee futomi_ hiroki jeff jens joined mdadas r12a ruby scribenick shepazu webplatform
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 31 Oct 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-webplatform-minutes.html
People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found!  
Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>.

Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of 
new discussion topics or agenda items, such as:
<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]