13:37:43 RRSAgent has joined #webplatform 13:37:43 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-webplatform-irc 13:37:48 ares has joined #webplatform 13:37:53 hiroki has joined #webplatform 13:37:54 scribenick: Lea_ 13:38:07 shepazu: does any one need more information about webplatform? 13:38:24 r12a: one question, should we call it webdocs? 13:38:34 shepazu: we also call it WPD 13:39:09 Lea_: the problem with WPD is that it's only about one section of the site 13:39:15 dom has joined #webplatform 13:39:24 shepazu: it's NP complete, Naming Protocol complete :P 13:39:25 dbaron has joined #webplatform 13:39:34 dbaron has left #webplatform 13:39:37 r12a: when I heard WPD […] 13:39:55 shepazu: there are going to be other aspects as it grows, but the main part is WPD 13:39:56 mdadas has joined #webplatform 13:40:05 shepazu: so that's something interesting we could talk about briefly 13:40:11 shepazu: one of the goals of the projects is good SEO 13:40:18 evanlee has joined #webplatform 13:40:21 shepazu: we're going to be buying adwords 13:40:37 shepazu: we would like to be the #1 hit when someone searches for a CSS property or an SVG element or whatever 13:40:42 shepazu: that's gonna take a little while 13:40:51 shepazu: if you look for css font-size right now, it's not gonna be WPD 13:41:01 shepazu: but maybe in a year, we might achieve this goal 13:41:17 dsinger: is WebPlatform all this project does? 13:41:24 s/when I heard WPD/I heard that WPD is only a part of the initiative - what is the rest?/ 13:41:34 shepazu: no, there are other parts as well, e.g. tools, Q&A 13:41:50 ???: it seems one of the biggest questions are about translations 13:42:05 s/are about translations/is about translations 13:42:34 shepazu: Microsoft paid HelloWelt to do many things on the site and one of the things we want to do is infrastructure for translations 13:42:39 jens has joined #webplatform 13:42:45 shepazu: We extended MediaWiki with many plugins 13:42:53 shepazu: one of the things MW is bad at is translations 13:42:58 Leehom has joined #webplatform 13:43:08 shepazu: we have a map of how this will work, we have some very rough prototypes, we're gonna be contracting with those guys 13:43:21 shepazu: shouldn't take more than a couple of weeks for a working first version 13:43:31 r12a: we have many articles on W3C with translations 13:43:57 r12a: we need to have a process and assess the translation quality 13:44:07 r12a: we need this to be authoritative 13:44:22 Leehom has joined #webplatform 13:44:23 r12a: we not only need to check the translations but also check the text in many different languages 13:44:38 shepazu: so, yes, we've talked about this before 13:44:42 shepazu: we realize it's an issue 13:44:48 shepazu: we want to have translation teams 13:44:53 shepazu: one or two leads in each languages 13:44:59 shepazu: they will find people to do translations and reviews 13:45:07 shepazu: maybe a combination of paid + volunteer resources 13:45:18 shepazu: yeah, we need to build a social infrastructure as well as the technical one 13:45:42 dsinger: we could look for language leads in our stewards 13:45:50 futomi_ has joined #webplatform 13:46:18 shepazu: someone said he's on a grant to work on MediaWiki's translation infrastructure 13:46:21 mdadas has joined #webplatform 13:46:22 shepazu: he's in Germany, I think he's Polish 13:46:29 shepazu: he contacted me, said he's very interested 13:46:35 shepazu: I think that's a key area of interest right now 13:46:43 shepazu: I wanted to have it on launch, but we didn't get there 13:46:55 shepazu: there are other opportunities as well around this 13:47:09 shepazu: we were contacted by the Wikipedia people, they are very excited that we are using their platform 13:47:21 shepazu: we are downstreaming all stuff that we're innovating about WPD to their software 13:47:34 ???: is anyone contracting with HelloWelt about this? 13:47:45 jeff has joined #webplatform 13:47:55 s/???:/mchampion 13:48:28 [discussion about /wiki in the URL] 13:48:31 q+ to pursue new topic around rules for content contributions---can the contributor be referenced in any way (i.e. links to contributor's site)? 13:49:01 shepazu: I hate it too, but there were two technical reasons for this 13:49:33 shepazu: we wanted people to know it's a wiki, to avoid running into the same issues as MDN did, where people don't realize it's a wiki 13:49:50 shepazu: they constantly get people telling them to edit their articles, because they don't understand it's a wiki 13:49:54 shepazu: that's the social reason 13:50:50 shepazu: sample URL for translations would be docs.webplatform.org/wiki/css/properties/font-size/de where de would be the language code 13:51:03 shepazu: we don't want to have parallel trees 13:51:26 dsinger: what is the structure of this wiki and how can I refer to it? 13:51:38 shepazu: what I want to do around translations is to publish a blog post with our thoughts 13:51:45 shepazu: we have a lot to learn from you Richard 13:51:55 shepazu: we don't have all the answers, we don't even have all the questions 13:52:14 shepazu: I've read a lot about how to build successful online communities, some of them discuss translations 13:52:23 shepazu: obviously we want to tap into the existing translation infrastructure 13:52:53 shepazu: [introduces me and Chris] 13:53:08 ruby has joined #webplatform 13:53:17 [shepazu introduces hiroki ] 13:53:43 shepazu: I just want to make sure you guys are aware that you can contact any of us if you have questions 13:53:58 public-webplatform.w3.org 13:54:09 shepazu: if you're interested in participating, there's a mailing list public-webplatform@w3.org 13:54:28 shepazu: we have about 30 minutes 13:54:54 SteveH_: I have a question, around content contributions, I understand it's a CC license and you have to give attribution 13:55:21 SteveH_: people can take content from WPD as long as they give attribution, but in terms of giving content, is there any attribution back to who gave the content? 13:55:38 shepazu: we don't have all the infrastructure in place, but we have something to guide people to give attribution 13:55:48 shepazu: if you're gonna be using a book, we ask that you credit all the authors 13:56:01 shepazu: we're going to expose that attribution through the API 13:56:16 shepazu: depends on the medium too, for slides and things like that, saying webplatform.org is sufficient 13:56:29 shepazu: we also have notes for imported content 13:56:41 SteveH_: is there a link back to the original sources? 13:56:58 shepazu: I'm really sensitive to that, I think it's a good idea to have many cross-links 13:57:14 shepazu: we don't want to annoy people with huge attribution links 13:57:20 shepazu: but something in the sidebar should be ok 13:57:28 shepazu: it's also an SEO strategy 13:57:40 r12a: I want to know who wrote something, to know how authoritative it is 13:58:18 Astok Malhotra: I have a question. We just published two documents as RECs. We like to get them on the WPD. What do we do? 13:59:11 shepazu: what is it about? 13:59:17 Astok: RDF 13:59:19 shepazu: come talk to us and we'll figure out where it fits 14:00:54 shepazu: I want to have things like RDFa 14:01:01 q? 14:01:35 Antoine: Do you intend to expose the data as open data? 14:01:42 hmmm, where is Zakim? 14:02:06 shepazu: that just blew my mind! It is based on Semantic MediaWiki which has categories and properties and relations so you should be able to get that metadata out, we don't have the API yet 14:02:11 Antoine: That's not the same 14:02:14 shepazu: give me an example 14:02:18 Zakim has joined #webplatform 14:03:05 shepazu: patches welcome! 14:03:29 shepazu: if you look at the page and you see what metadata should be exposed, come and tell us 14:03:34 shepazu: it could even help SEO! 14:03:54 shepazu: we absolutely intend on having a rich API 14:04:06 shepazu: each section of the page has its own field, so our data is structured internally 14:04:19 shepazu: but we want to be pragmatic, we don't want to put metadata there for no reason 14:04:46 shepazu: we can see pragmatically what works out 14:05:17 SteveH_: Who's gonna be moderating the wiki? 14:05:31 shepazu: all the stewards have admins working on WPD 14:05:56 shepazu: we do want people to help us police the site 14:06:00 shepazu: and help us add content 14:06:15 shepazu: every steward get to have an admin, but we already have admins from the community doing amazing work 14:06:31 SteveH_: who gets to have a say in the end? 14:06:43 shepazu: ultimately it's W3C if it comes down to that 14:06:53 shepazu: if we can't reach consensus 14:07:22 SteveH_: so the admins debate with each other, work with the content provider and then if it comes down to that and they can't reach consensus, they ask W3C? 14:07:36 shepazu: we're gonna be involved in the site itself and listen to everybody and do what we feel is the right thing 14:07:54 Mike: Wasn't someone banned on day 1? 14:08:09 cmills: That was me [laughs] 14:08:31 bjkim has left #webplatform 14:09:03 cmills: That person made some awful changes, screw them [everyone laughs] 14:09:35 SteveH_: I imagine admins distribute the work and each one takes care of specific areas 14:09:50 shepazu: yes, but not for more serious things like banning 14:10:03 shepazu: for things that have long lasting implications, we ask them to ask on IRC first 14:10:17 cmills: Specific moderators should have specific areas of responsibility 14:10:38 shepazu: the response has been excellent 14:10:50 shepazu: Chris is especially overwhelmed, the first weeks were very hard 14:11:04 shepazu: people were coming and did silly things just to play with the site 14:11:14 shepazu: these days we are getting people that are more serious 14:12:00 shepazu: I also want to tie it back to something else, this is not about documenting the specs, the site needs to reflect the real world 14:12:20 shepazu: we don't expect many kinds of conflicts, wikipedia is much larger than what we're doing 14:12:53 Ian: do you have any protection against link spam through attribution? 14:13:03 shepazu: difficult question, what was the first one 14:13:10 Ian: Editorial style guide? 14:13:24 shepazu: we're using the Yahoo style guide and using American English, because it's the best [laughs] 14:13:49 shepazu: to correct myself, for the default pages we're using American English, obviously not for the …Chinese pages 14:14:12 shepazu: you only get attributed once, and it's a nofollow link so you're not getting google juice for that, so the incentives are low 14:14:19 shepazu: if we see abuses we'll deal with it then 14:14:35 shepazu: we don't know yet how the community is going to react and we're not going to make rules before we see the problems 14:14:42 shepazu: btw, I have stickers 14:15:09 shepazu: any other questions? 14:15:36 Erika: Will the course materials for W3Dev Campus be tied to WebPlatform? 14:16:05 shepazu: I think that the scope of education stuff is larger than that, we need to have a larger educational strategy 14:16:15 shepazu: maybe ultimately we'll intergrate this stuff 14:16:22 shepazu: for right now, they're their own thing 14:17:09 ???: it's missing more than one HTML attributes, how should I edit a page? 14:17:14 shepazu: it gives you a form 14:17:23 shepazu: maybe we didn't get the workflow quite right 14:17:38 shepazu: we have realistically 5-10 minutes left 14:18:33 shepazu: we don't tend to point people to the specs 14:18:45 shepazu: there are reasons to go there, but that's not where most devs want to get their information 14:18:52 shepazu: we hope this will be useful to WGs too 14:20:02 [discussing about the pronunciation of "primer"] 14:20:13 s/[discussing/[discussion 14:20:37 shepazu: we need a sysop 14:20:38 \ 14:20:51 shepazu: we need money for extending features of the site, and to last without ads 14:21:00 shepazu: and to get more stickers! 14:21:20 shepazu: going to conferences and speak about it 14:21:29 shepazu: we don't want to financially reward our contributors 14:21:44 shepazu: but we could e.g. help fly good contributors to a docathon 14:22:06 shepazu: I don't want to turn it to a sales pitch, but I think you're all here because you see the value in it 14:22:24 dsinger: will it ever get out of alpha? What are the criteria? 14:22:39 shepazu: there are specific criteria. We want to have more complete content 14:22:57 dsinger: getting to 95%, I totally agree. Getting to 100% on the other hand... 14:23:13 shepazu: if we reach the point where a random page likely has everything filled out, we'll go out of alpha 14:23:32 shepazu: we want to get the reference material pretty much done to exit alpha 14:24:15 shepazu: we're going to tie compatibility tables with W3C testuites and other sources such as quirksmode 14:24:32 r12a: I recently implemented an API for our testsuites 14:24:57 http://www.w3.org/International/tests/ 14:25:22 Ian: Do you have any plans for funding PPK to expand his compat tables? 14:25:42 shepazu: he has support from Microsoft and Google for this, which requires that we could use his data, and he happily agreed 14:25:54 shepazu: we could help fund things like that if we have enough money 14:26:02 shepazu: there's a number of ways to do that 14:26:16 shepazu: that fits great with W3C's process, because we need tests 14:26:28 shepazu: and we're going to expose an API for people to get this info 14:26:29 q? 14:26:58 RRSAgent draft minutes 14:27:13 bjkim has joined #webplatform 14:27:17 bjkim has left #webplatform 14:27:24 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:27:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-webplatform-minutes.html shepazu 14:27:25 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:27:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/31-webplatform-minutes.html r12a 14:27:45 Jirka has left #webplatform 14:27:48 I have to hand it to you 14:28:30 jalvinen has left #webplatform 14:28:31 dsinger has joined #webplatform 14:45:22 jeff has joined #webplatform 14:51:19 r12a has joined #webplatform 14:51:32 edoyle has joined #webplatform 14:53:49 hiroki_ has joined #webplatform 14:56:06 Yanagiuchi has joined #webplatform 14:59:08 dsinger has joined #webplatform 15:02:29 dsinger has joined #webplatform 15:03:05 edoyle has joined #webplatform 15:06:13 dom has joined #webplatform 15:07:09 JonathanJ1 has joined #webplatform 15:11:47 r12a has joined #webplatform 15:12:01 JonathanJ1 has left #webplatform 15:16:35 SteveH_ has joined #webplatform 15:20:37 shepazu has joined #webplatform 15:40:58 r12a has left #webplatform 15:50:47 jeff has joined #webplatform 15:56:49 SteveH__ has joined #webplatform 16:00:18 SteveH__ has left #webplatform 16:01:35 hiroki has joined #webplatform 16:02:56 Yanagiuchi has joined #webplatform 16:11:53 shepazu has joined #webplatform 16:13:13 edoyle has joined #webplatform 16:55:09 Zakim has left #webplatform 16:59:01 hiroki has joined #webplatform 17:29:52 dom has joined #webplatform 17:31:47 shepazu has joined #webplatform 17:43:59 dom has joined #webplatform